Basically our brain gets information then runs a "processing pass" over the information to sort it. Illusions are what happens when the input information is sorted improperly. It's like how humans notice faces in everything, its technically an illusion but a person who couldn't figure out that a :) is supposed to look like a face would be lacking that "facial recognition" software that sorts :) 'incorrectly' into the face category. Also this demonstration is for illusions, not hallucinations.
Would be an interesting screening method to use in highschools/colleges (when many first psychotic breaks happen). Like a mental health version of the color blindness.
On the face, the shadows are upside down from the torso. That's why it looks so unsettling. I couldn't necessarily see through the illusion, but I definitely knew something was off!
I feel like in isolation, this knowledge just makes it sound like schizophrenics are actually correct. That we all are seeing an illusory version of the world, and they see it as it really is. I did not need this thought in my head. :P
Illusions are your brains reflex to sort important information faster. It's only very specific situations that this reflex is wrong. So only 00.00000000000001% of the time your vision creates an illusion. Schizophrenics suffer from hallucinations from not being able to properly sort information meaning they live in a hallucinatory version of the world MUCH MORE OFTEN than healthy people encounter illusions. Healthy brains are still better at seeing reality.
Your brain creates a simulation of the world you know based on the sensory input it gets. So you live in a simulation your brain has come up with. An illusion is defined as "an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience." So if all our brains have the same bug and misinterpret a certain dataset in the same way, we all live in an illusion.
I have not. I heard the name before, but only now looked him up. Sounds like an interesting read. But if you read it, I'd suggest: Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality | Lex Fridman Podcast #101
I've grabbed the link to check out later, thanks! The Holographic Universe explores this concept of Consensual Reality which is just fascinating to ponder.
Think of it this way though - most of us see what humans evolved to see. And we evolved that way to function successfully in this world. Think about why that might be. Our brains are able to take a certain amount of input, and turn it into something that we can correctly react to, which is the point of our senses. Does it matter what we see the tiger looking like, as long as it always looks the same so that we know it's a tiger?
Our brain does this for a reason, and it generally results in /1
us gaining *more* overall information from it. The fact that there are very specific cases in which our senses can be tricked doesn't really matter all that much, because those aren't the norm and they aren't what we evolved to see.
So with that understanding, look at the flip side of the schizophrenic who isn't tricked by this illusion. What does it mean? It means that they don't have some of the evolved functions that the rest of us do. In these edge cases, it helps them see through the /2
illusion. But what about the common, everyday cases? They are missing something that the rest of us have that is apparently important enough, evolutionarily, that it's been passed down to the vast majority of descendants. And they don't have it. It's likely that in the cases where this function *does* help us, it's hurting them to not have it. And that *we* may be the ones getting a fuller sense of reality in those cases, because we are able to infer perspective from less data, while they /3
seem to not be able to do that. That's why they don't fall for the illusion and we do. Our brain is combining data and giving us a result that theirs isn't getting. And most of the time, our brain is right about the perspective we're seeing. It's only edge cases like this where it's wrong. So what do schizophrenics see in the normal cases? Do they see reality? I guess you could say they do. But they end up with less total information about reality than we do, because they aren't able to make /4
TL;DR They may be seeing "reality", but we're seeing "reality+". Sometimes reality+ is wrong, but the vast majority of the time it's right. They are missing reality+, so what they see is always correct, but they don't get as much total information as we do. If that makes sense. /5
What that really means is, that there are processing steps that make you see illusions that are missing or faulty in schizophrenics. If you have gotten into how the brain and perception works, you'll understand that this puts schizophrenics at a disadvantage. The illusions are side effects in very specific circumstances of processes that make different impressions into a whole picture. Those "dark spot" illusions or those "wrong colour" illusions are effects of your brain correcting for light >
intensities that are apart by a factor of 100-1000. If your brain could not do that to the full extent, you wouldn't have dark spot illusions. But your eyes would also melt once you step outside during the day.
Yea, i always wear my sunglasses outside, my curtains are always closed and the lighting soft/shady. I can see trough illusions, but can't see some others can. I notice some processes my brain does, like filling in the spot with something before it decides what something is and displaying that. it is only for a milisec and not scary or bothersome, but you do just notice it.
I think that's what i mean with dark spot illusion. The dark spots you only see when not looking at them in some black and white patterns are because your eyes are set up in a way that you have overlapping fields that either detect "peripherie brighter than center" or "peripherie darker than center". It's part of a system that calculates how bright is in relation to everything else. Which is why you can see the same colour in different light conditions, while the signals that your eyes detect >
from that surface are wildly different. That's how you see colours in the dark, though your eyes actually can only see greyscales in very low light conditions. And that's why objects don't "change" colour each time you see them. But there's also allready the famous illusion with "These two squares are actually the same shade of grey" when you see a while you clearly see a black and a white square.
In videogame terms, there is a hell of a lot of post processing done between the data and the >
It doesn't matter. That's how you demerit it. We think and therefore we are. We have to work together whether or not the rest is real. Solipsism believers make the presumption that it changes the world order whether someone else is real. Imo it makes an excuse to abandon empathy, in the worst cases.
CommanderKitten
NeutralNebula
As a child, I used to have trouble with these but now I'm fully trapped in the illusion...
astromoondoggie
Tomigami
Yes, a regular man. That is what I am seeing here. Regular.
elvisdumbledore
Aphex Twin
https://imgur.com/ermhfMR
Slash0mega
i cant help but feel this would be a bit different in real life over a 2d screen.
KAPTKipper
Holo... Damn TikTok closed captioning is the worst.
ingridwebb88
Wait, do schizophrenics see a man when it's a mask or see a mask when it's a man?
DrFartGood
So maybe what schizophrenics see is actually there and we’re all just seeing the illusion?
OnlyWantToSayOneThing
Basically our brain gets information then runs a "processing pass" over the information to sort it. Illusions are what happens when the input information is sorted improperly. It's like how humans notice faces in everything, its technically an illusion but a person who couldn't figure out that a :) is supposed to look like a face would be lacking that "facial recognition" software that sorts :) 'incorrectly' into the face category. Also this demonstration is for illusions, not hallucinations.
Zootsoot
Would be an interesting screening method to use in highschools/colleges (when many first psychotic breaks happen). Like a mental health version of the color blindness.
fastjeff
"Does this creepy ass man grinning at you with wide open eyes look different or normal?"
.... uhh... different?
magical8ball
[deleted]
[deleted]
myvo
My brain definitely wasn’t telling me that THAT was a regular man.
philmoregraves
Well yeah it's a hallow mask duhhh
johnblood616
Sounds like you have schizophrenia.
CheeseborgarSoop
WOW... That explains a lot.
MrFancyPanzer
Jeff Bezos?
romkasmirnoff2000
Yeah, it's a hollow man illusion, works for Elmo too. Looks full to us but completely empty inside
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
No, Jeff Bezos sees both illusions as dollar signs. He sees everything as dollar signs. People don't exist.
Grapeape2000
The eyes don't see - the brain sees.
relsky
On the face, the shadows are upside down from the torso. That's why it looks so unsettling. I couldn't necessarily see through the illusion, but I definitely knew something was off!
tom091178
lurksalotcommentssome
Sauce?
mattbl
cs_italy
countbassy
Sauce is an illusion
moebiusstrip
people with schizophrenia are 3 times more likely NOT to see the illusion. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27847925/
Slidje
https://www.vice.com/en/article/people-born-blind-are-mysteriously-protected-from-schizophrenia/
Katiger
Well that's incredibly interesting
JoeDepciMowed
It is, but it also makes total sense.
TheMershedPerderder
The forward depth of the neck, vs the more distant face is what tipped me off. Get better at eliminating variables, noobs.
BlindGardener
I’m pretty sure i’m not schizophrenic, but it just looks like a flat cardboard cutout to me until he turns it to reveal its concave.
Katiger
Probably because the camera removes depth perception
pr3viso
I have to stop doing acid
DerpyBestPrincess
Better version, cropped as well.
elulongin
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTY1YjkxZmJlaHUzcGJ3YWZyMHN3bWR6ZnpqdmdoYmF1ZG40bTNrYm1kOXR2NWFhcCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/TGCSNFiXSoKVZH3IJs/giphy.mp4
VeinyFleshTrumpet
Watched the video, said out loud “Fascinating!”, then scrolled up and saw the title. 10/10 post name.
thatoneweirdguynobodyremembers
As a schizophrenic, I have always believed I'm just tuned in to a different frequency than everyone else. This kinda backs up my theory.
hydrocarbon82
WHY DO I NOT SEE THE ILLUSIONS?>!?!
ElbowDeepInUserSub
I feel like in isolation, this knowledge just makes it sound like schizophrenics are actually correct. That we all are seeing an illusory version of the world, and they see it as it really is. I did not need this thought in my head. :P
OnlyWantToSayOneThing
Illusions are your brains reflex to sort important information faster. It's only very specific situations that this reflex is wrong. So only 00.00000000000001% of the time your vision creates an illusion. Schizophrenics suffer from hallucinations from not being able to properly sort information meaning they live in a hallucinatory version of the world MUCH MORE OFTEN than healthy people encounter illusions. Healthy brains are still better at seeing reality.
Waschbaerkoenig
Your brain creates a simulation of the world you know based on the sensory input it gets. So you live in a simulation your brain has come up with. An illusion is defined as "an instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience." So if all our brains have the same bug and misinterpret a certain dataset in the same way, we all live in an illusion.
Look up the wavelength of magenta, if you like.
Z0op
Or what our brains do during saccadic eye movement, that shit is bonkers
ElbowDeepInUserSub
Yes, I know. Near Infrared + Near Ultraviolet. Have you perhaps read the book _The Holographic Universe_ by Michael Talbot?
Waschbaerkoenig
I have not. I heard the name before, but only now looked him up. Sounds like an interesting read. But if you read it, I'd suggest:
Joscha Bach: Artificial Consciousness and the Nature of Reality | Lex Fridman Podcast #101
ElbowDeepInUserSub
I've grabbed the link to check out later, thanks! The Holographic Universe explores this concept of Consensual Reality which is just fascinating to ponder.
Waschbaerkoenig
If you like it, there is a round 2 in podcast number 212
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Think of it this way though - most of us see what humans evolved to see. And we evolved that way to function successfully in this world. Think about why that might be. Our brains are able to take a certain amount of input, and turn it into something that we can correctly react to, which is the point of our senses. Does it matter what we see the tiger looking like, as long as it always looks the same so that we know it's a tiger?
Our brain does this for a reason, and it generally results in /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
us gaining *more* overall information from it. The fact that there are very specific cases in which our senses can be tricked doesn't really matter all that much, because those aren't the norm and they aren't what we evolved to see.
So with that understanding, look at the flip side of the schizophrenic who isn't tricked by this illusion. What does it mean? It means that they don't have some of the evolved functions that the rest of us do. In these edge cases, it helps them see through the /2
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
illusion. But what about the common, everyday cases? They are missing something that the rest of us have that is apparently important enough, evolutionarily, that it's been passed down to the vast majority of descendants. And they don't have it. It's likely that in the cases where this function *does* help us, it's hurting them to not have it. And that *we* may be the ones getting a fuller sense of reality in those cases, because we are able to infer perspective from less data, while they /3
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
seem to not be able to do that. That's why they don't fall for the illusion and we do. Our brain is combining data and giving us a result that theirs isn't getting. And most of the time, our brain is right about the perspective we're seeing. It's only edge cases like this where it's wrong. So what do schizophrenics see in the normal cases? Do they see reality? I guess you could say they do. But they end up with less total information about reality than we do, because they aren't able to make /4
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
some of the inferences we do.
TL;DR They may be seeing "reality", but we're seeing "reality+". Sometimes reality+ is wrong, but the vast majority of the time it's right. They are missing reality+, so what they see is always correct, but they don't get as much total information as we do. If that makes sense. /5
TheAnswerWasAlwaysMoreLube
mercyPandaRunner
What that really means is, that there are processing steps that make you see illusions that are missing or faulty in schizophrenics. If you have gotten into how the brain and perception works, you'll understand that this puts schizophrenics at a disadvantage. The illusions are side effects in very specific circumstances of processes that make different impressions into a whole picture. Those "dark spot" illusions or those "wrong colour" illusions are effects of your brain correcting for light >
mercyPandaRunner
intensities that are apart by a factor of 100-1000. If your brain could not do that to the full extent, you wouldn't have dark spot illusions. But your eyes would also melt once you step outside during the day.
PagetheFound
Yea, i always wear my sunglasses outside, my curtains are always closed and the lighting soft/shady. I can see trough illusions, but can't see some others can. I notice some processes my brain does, like filling in the spot with something before it decides what something is and displaying that. it is only for a milisec and not scary or bothersome, but you do just notice it.
mercyPandaRunner
I think that's what i mean with dark spot illusion. The dark spots you only see when not looking at them in some black and white patterns are because your eyes are set up in a way that you have overlapping fields that either detect "peripherie brighter than center" or "peripherie darker than center". It's part of a system that calculates how bright is in relation to everything else. Which is why you can see the same colour in different light conditions, while the signals that your eyes detect >
mercyPandaRunner
from that surface are wildly different. That's how you see colours in the dark, though your eyes actually can only see greyscales in very low light conditions. And that's why objects don't "change" colour each time you see them. But there's also allready the famous illusion with "These two squares are actually the same shade of grey" when you see a while you clearly see a black and a white square.
In videogame terms, there is a hell of a lot of post processing done between the data and the >
pvtsquirel
Want a worse thought? It's impossible for you to prove anything but your consciousness is real
ElbowDeepInUserSub
Solipsism. Kills me that people are turning it into a synonym for narcissism. No, that's wild. That's the sort of thing that a figment would do. :P
pvtsquirel
Really, I haven't encountered that interpretation. I don't really subscribe to the philosophy, but it's damn near impossible to demerit it
PectorialMuscles
It doesn't matter. That's how you demerit it. We think and therefore we are. We have to work together whether or not the rest is real. Solipsism believers make the presumption that it changes the world order whether someone else is real. Imo it makes an excuse to abandon empathy, in the worst cases.
Fancyjesus
Is the fact that the man changed accents and appearance almost mid sentence a sign of onset schizophrenia?
MaverickTitan
Oh, you saw that too?
Thank goodness, I was beginning to worry.
ChewyTheWookie
There were so many dozens of men I'm not sure which you mean. Shut up Larry, he does not. Damn it Billy!
HumanCats
I think your eyes are telling you it's a different person but your brain refuses to believe it.
Trelis","avatar":"https://i.i
Maybe not being able to tell two different people apart is.
DarkSock
I only saw a video of my parents fighting
Detacheddavid
Yes, if you believe different people are actually a single person in disguise. That's Fregoli Delusion.
TheBlueMuppet
If you believe there are puppets that live underground and dance their cares away, that's Fraggle Rock.
TLakes
Username checks out
goste
I think it’s called being a different person.
tarkus10
Fuckin' Lex Luther.
twistysoup
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTY1YjkxZmJlb2QwejV2aHRrOXc4dzdlaHlkeGYwZWpyNDc2YmFubXRxaWNzM3phcyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/n8SkNR77udWlG/giphy.mp4
Sfingks
Different person? There was only one person in this video. Are you feeling okay?
thirdlittilbird
I'll bet you thought that mask in the beginning was hollow
Humputse
What man?
Hellfirefighter
The shirtless gentleman smiling
SmoeAhsolse
The man with the power.
CJAW
What power?
RansomElwin
The power of voodoo.
CJAW
Who do?