Indiana Aftermath

May 4, 2016 3:00 PM

Butane9000

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Let's talk about this guy

First I'm likely to get down voted by the socialist and progressive majority that rules imgur. And that's okay, because I believe that the ideas here should stand up on their own merits and may not be views I directly agree with though I will get the repercussion of imgur's self censorship.

One of the big complaints I've seen against Donald Trump is a racist yet without much supporting evidence. I can find plenty of opinion articles with some quotations but no context or substantive facts. But I did find at least one that did by the Huffington post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83

1. Justice Department suing his company about lending to black Americans.
Okay, this happened in 1973. It's not a suit against him but the company, and not everyone in a company is perfect. Trump originally opposed the allegations because in this country you are innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof lies on the accuser. Eventually there was a settlement and that's done generally because you realize you were in fact wrong and there is no sense dragging out a costly legal battle to smear the company further. While it's an admission of guilt it's also an admission of humility. But this still doesn't prove Trump himself is in fact racist, just that his company fucked up.

2. He refused to condemn white supremacists.
So who really gives a shit about the KKK anymore? Oh just because they endorse Trump he's automatically a racist? What about Hillary Clinton's relationship to Robert Byrd who OPPOSED the civil rights act of 1964 by trying to filibuster it. The fact of the matter is many Democrats in power have close ties to the KKK and their support of segregation and Jim Crow laws back during the civil rights movement often goes ignored constantly.

Honestly, two things should happen when you hear an opposing view you don't like (i.e. Race Supremacy) you need to give it the light of day for public scrutiny and then you either engage them and prove to them why they are wrong or you remain silent and watch them destroy themselves.

3. Questioning President Obama being born in the United States.
See this is tricky. Because if you actually look at the argument on the facts being presented it is fishy. From Obama's lack of an actual birth certificate and instead having a Certificate of Live Birth which is not sufficient for several of our federal agencies. To the fact that during his time he attended school in Indonesia he would have had to been exclusively a citizen of Indonesia and not a dual citizen. Either way, questioning whether he was or wasn't born in the United States is not at all an indictment of or against the fact that the President is black.

4. He treats racial groups as monoliths.
This is funny because it's accusing him of something that progressives do all the time. In fact, when one of these protected minorities often espouse a different view (which they are rightfully entitled to do so if we value a free society with a open market place of ideas) they are vilified and insulted. The only thing I've heard from him regarding a specific race is when he said "Black people love me" and that's not racism. That's just him over generalizing but it isn't racist as he isn't saying he is more superior to black people.

Or maybe it's his comments about Muslims and Mexicans/Hispanics. Well first off a Presidential candidate saying he plans on enforcing the law and reducing illegal immigration into the U.S. isn't racist. Most people crossing the border today aren't Mexicans, however they are coming through Mexico relatively unabated and this needs to stop. People say how's he going to make Mexico pay for it? Well he can stop illegal immigrants from sending money out of the country and use that money to build the wall.

Now with Muslims, look at what's going on in Europe. Sure there are in fact some fleeing war and oppression. One of my former employee's fled Turkey when we was a bureaucrat making $55K a year in their currency. When we broke it down he was making equivalent to about 8-9 dollars an hour in U.S. Dollars. However we also know that the rampant unabated influx of migrants also led to the Paris terrorist attacks.

So when a President (or candidate) is saying that a specific group of people pose a national security threat to the nation and that we should halt all immigration from those countries until we can set up a more substantive process to vet these people. That's not racist, that's again simply doing his job (or soon to be whatever). Nor has Trump ever said such a ban would ever be permanent.

5. His previous remarks on Native Americans when we was competing against them in the Casino industry.
Again this stems from 1993 which is over 20 years ago. I'm just gonna boil this down to this comment that's quoted in the article: “they don’t look like Indians to me... They don’t look like Indians to Indians.” Now funny thing is this isn't racism, it's just him stereotyping what he believes a Native American should look like and him generalizing that they don't resemble others of their own race. Again, when read directly there isn't racism. Just him being an asshole with generalizing.

6. Supposedly equating Trumps personal views on a horrific miscarriage of justice as a direct cause of such.
Stating his views on the death penalty back in 1989 somehow was an enticement of "mob justice" against people who were wrongfully imprisoned. The problem is while Trump supported the death penalty his views had no bearing on the failure of the courts. Now his views that the 5 are still guilty after being exonerated in 2002 is something that can be discussed freely. But stating they were imprisoned because of him is inherent wrong and knowingly a lie unless you have proof that Trump payed off the people in the Justice system.

7. He "condones" the beating of a protester at his rally.
Well here's the thing, I haven't seen a video showing who threw the first punch. Whose to say he didn't swing first. Also Trump saying "get him out of here" may have ultimately been for his own safety. Also if we're discussing assaulting people for and against Trump you have to look at both sides. See here for an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM0sekLbNsI or the people injured during the Costa Mesa riots (note, riots and not protests).

8. Calling people who assaulted a homeless man "passionate".
So two people went out and attacked a Hispanic homeless man and cited Trumps rhetoric as their "motive" though both have criminal backgrounds. Trump himself called it a shame but also said his supporters are very passionate. That's not wrong, these two were passionate but for all the wrong reasons. The fact that Trump said it was a shame was heavily overlooked.

9. Again stereotyping Jewish people.
He stereotyped Jewish people as good negotiators and cunning business people. That doesn't sound racist because it's not implying they are less than he is as a matter of their race. Instead it sounds like a back handed compliment. He also said they most likely won't support him because he didn't want their money and they want to control their politician. Which isn't an uncommon view against those putting big money into politics. One even levied at Trump himself.

Now I often hear about how Donald Trump is a bigot. That may hold some truth but often many of his most vehement opposition should also be accused of such. Look at how anti-Trump black protesters insult a black trump supporter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI9MCvK2MGs

Note when they tell him "he doesn't know how great he is as a black man" because he wants to work for his living and better his life. They say he'll be a slave if he does so. Or that his "culture" was taken away and that it isn't his fault. This is insulting because it's denying him of his opinions because he doesn't join the perceived majority of black Americans views of entitlement for continue perceived (however real or not) oppression. This is another great video breaking down some of the problems with the Black Lives Matters when compared to Humanisn or All Lives Matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdi0hz8T0b0 (Note, he is British and looking at this from an outsider view).

Now someone points to his America first attitude. When I hear the word American I think the nation as a whole. Every citizen regardless of the color of their skin. He's talking about putting them first instead of deals that overly benefit foreigners either here or abroad. It's not wrong to pursue a global trade policy where it puts the interests of U.S. Citizens and those here legally first because that's the exact approach every other nation applies when creating their own trade agreements. It's why most U.S. Automobile manufacturers cannot sell cars overseas when nations like Japan can sell their automobiles in the U.S. Free and equal trade would require Japan allow U.S. car manufacturers to sell their cars openly in Japan without restriction.

Personally, I didn't vote for Trump in the primary. But I will look at Trump and hopefully a strong Libertarian party candidate. I refuse to vote for Hillary whose at this point openly showing cronyism and the protection those in what you could perceive as the "political class" share from each other given her openly visible crimes. Be it her misuse of government documents on her privately owned server or her donations through the Clinton Foundation to further her own ends whilst she was acting in her official roles. I also have no intention to vote for Bernie Sanders if he should win because I understand that the core concepts of socialism are antithetical to what makes our lives in the U.S. so great in the first place.

In closing I leave you with some videos which I believe everyone should watch to help educate themselves and challenge their beliefs over certain ideologies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIfSwt489e4 - The assassination of Donald Trump. (note, also covers Bernie)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XgdtHewGR0 - - Why Democratic Socialism doesn't work. (Best example why I won't vote for Bernie).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFD3Drcrp1o - justice vs fairness (pssibly NSFW images the host uses of himself as a kid).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72JbY4UccAc - Milo Yiannopoulos discussing the problems with treating races as voting blocks.

TL:DR - Donald Trump may be an asshole and at times may be a bigot but there's no evidence in the last decade of him being racist at all. That the racist argument against Trump is simply a type of character assassination created by those against him.

Mr President!

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

That was a ton of effort just to get downvoted as you suspected.

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Just saying repost this later when all the Democrats are not paying attention

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

"They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” - Trump, on Mexican immigrants.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

As a mexican I don't like the part where the money sent from immigrants could be withheld. Sadly is one of the main pillars of our economy.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

OP provides list of evidence... "Welp, no evidence!"

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 2

I provided a list someone else says is evidence and then gave a argument on why it isn't actually evidence of racism. Note the difference.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

v

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

That's why there's a bit at the bottom.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 3

Im progressive and am inclined to side with you on this: Trump makes spontaneous, off the cuff remarks. When they happen to be about (1)

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

A minority, they are racist. They're racist comments, but I'm not sure that they're formally part of a racist ideology. He probably (2)

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Doesnt actively hate mexicans, they just got thrown under the bus for the sake of his campaign, and were attacked in his uncritical remarks

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

I'm not downvoting you for your opinion (like most will) but rather because fuck off with politics on imgur.

10 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

That's fair.

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

Image hosting sites with shitty, limited comment systems based on popularity simply aren't conducive to mature discussions on serious topics

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I briefly looked over your profile. I don't think you apply your principles evenly unless my post was a new trend of fuck politics.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

I've downvoted all those posts too. I just make the occasional comment when I'm particularly bored. Not singling yours out.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Well thank you then. I see you are pro Bernie and I'm curious why you support him. If you care to answer.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Trump *was*convicted of racism and paid a fine for a situation in one of his casinos

10 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

$650,000 to be precise. In 1991. And, yea, I don't give a shit how long ago it was. I see no difference in his personality then to now.

10 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

He has never been convicted. He settled a lawsuit. It's also a sub-link as a source in the article I was deconstructing.

10 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0