Spune
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Don't get me wrong... I admire the work that zoos do and think they do more to help the other great apes than they hurt, and certainly more than humanity in general does, but the more stuff like this I read the more I think we should be treating them like peers rather than exibits.
Edit: I made a new post at http://imgur.com/gallery/8tR3S telling the story with my own brush with extraordinary ape intelligence.
twofishtails
We could start by training them to be NFL players.
BeanProbe
Apes are amazing.
xaosbob
Yes we are.
Sammie14
Not ASL. Not real language. Do your own research and learn some linguistics.
taliesan
I didnt expect to get emotional over this...
theambivalentbookworm
This is how you get planet of the apes. Do you want to be slaves to poo throwing emotional peers? I, for one, have enough of that at work.
Boopdog
Let's be fair. Gorillas running the show might be a major improvement.
ArtArchive
You've never seen a wild gorilla then.
Boopdog
I've seen a domestic Congress.
ThamthonTheThaddutheeThtrangler
neck lip girl hole? I'm pretty sure i understand that
KillingTlme
All good until the stupid ass "treat them like peers" comment.
Spune
It was a comment that was intended to be thought-provoking. Please explain your thoughts if it bothers you so much.
KillingTlme
As a world, we have enough problems treating each other like peers. It seems like a first world problem to worry about caging Gorillas.
shavtetri
I don't like going to zoos in general (bad childhood experience), but when I find myself in a gorilla exhibit, I can't help averting my eyes
twotomango
Actually, averting your eyes is a sign of respect, direct eye contact is seen as a challenge and a threat. So good job!
shavtetri
It feels like I'm at an exhibit of caged humans and creeps me out.
Spune
When I was a child an orangutan tried to trade me her favorite chewing stick for one of my Cheetos. I'm not proud of it now, but when 1/2
Spune
she finally tossed the stick to me with perfect accuracy and held out her hand pleadingly I caved in and tossed her some.
shavtetri
I know they are probably not supposed to eat Cheetos, but I would have done the same. Anything else would feel like a betrayal.
DontNeedaReasontoHateYou
While against the rules, you offered kindness to a captive, intelligent, feeling soul who openly communicated with you. No guilt.
Spune
Thanks. I still feel a little guilt since I might have encouraged her to use that trick on others, but I just couldn't say no to that face.
Username69420
This has made me feel a big sad
RockfordPeach
MORE PLEASE!
KimberlyCS
Chimpanzees also eat babies, so...
ISayFuckAllTheTime
But if studies like this humanize them a bit for the world, might that not benefit the ones still out in the wild?
glock19
I, for one, welcome our future Chimp overlords.
ResidentLoreExpert
While likely not capable of the deep, universe analyzing, philosophical deep thinking that we are, emotionally we are the same.
HarryDresdenIsMySpiritAnimal
Lookmanobrain
Well there are some studies pointing towards that they have the same "religious" experiences"humans have.
phlat6
We humans only THINK we're capable of deep thinking. Animals are probably similar.
ChainsawHandsJoe
I wish I was a gorilla.
ArtArchive
I would hesitate to say emotionally the same either. Our fundamentals may be the same, but are we projecting our own traits out of empathy?
cakesandwhiskey
I wish I wasn't capable of that.
27yoUGLYvirgin
I know right? It would help a lot with depression.
cakesandwhiskey
That precisely.
frjackhackett
i remember an article that mentioned a case of chimps waking up their kids to admire the sunrise for no reason.. who knows what they were
frjackhackett
thinking, but it at least shows they're capable of aesthetic appreciation of a beautiful scene
mollyMcTrunkins73
Any chance you have the link to the article? I'd love to read it. (I'll also try searching.)
frjackhackett
look for jane goodall's research about ritual behaviour in chimps, might find something relevant, i can't find exactly what i had in mind
TheButtyProfessor
To be fair, many humans aren't capable either
damspam
Reminds me of that line from I-robot: "You're not human. Can a robot write a symphony? Paint a masterpiece?" Robot: "Can you?"
bluefacepaint
A lot of people feel more comfortable when we compare the best of us to a random sampling of them. Any values for us and them apply.
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AxelBeingCivil
The amount of universe-analyzing and deep-thinking that went into that is immense.
jimmyriba
...and stupidity. It's amazing how we can be so incredibly smart, and so incredibly stupid at the same time.
AxelBeingCivil
I think an analysis of any deficiencies in intelligence here requires a bit more nuance than can be allowed in 140 characters.
BleakInfinitive
Gorillas are fucking smart, but sign language studies with them are controversial in the science world. Researchers spend so much time (1)
BleakInfinitive
bonding with them, that they overinterpret results. A lot of scientists are suspicious of stories like these. (2)
phlat6
Seriously... how can we tell how much the researchers are projecting they're own experiences onto the animals?
seeriktus
Its the difference between someone whos worked with the gorillas for years, and someone whos never met them. Potential bias, but unmeasured
DontEverMoveHere
I said the same damn thing 4 hours before you and got the crap down-voted out of me. Good for you for reaching the smart part of Imgur.
CocaineAndSelfPleasure
It seems that if they understand the researcher and show empathy (The cry sign seems like a good example) then something's going right.
obviouslythisisntmyrealnamewhatwereyouthinking
Could argue tho- was it really a cry sign? Or was it something coincidentally that happened that the trainer interpreted it as the cry sign?
CocaineAndSelfPleasure
Sure you could make that argument but when the ape put its finger to her face and went from eye down it seems obvious, but hey, who am I?
secretbison
It's a lot like Clever Hans, the horse who could allegedly solve math problems. He just stomped his hoof until people started cheering.
OverpricedCrayon
That one was his owner giving him clues subconsciously. Owner didn't even know he was doing it himself
AlkeneThiol
Why aren't they just filmed constantly when communicating. This shit shouldn't be dependent hearsay, I agree.
BleakInfinitive
Plus, gorillas are clever and social. Maybe Koko and pals only learned that humans love it when they make funny hands at each other.
BleakInfinitive
It's tricky because the researchers are the designers and the interpreters of the language. They get to decide what the gorillas "mean."
AlkeneThiol
Wait i thought it was just ASL??
missmaryMACKMACKMACK
they use ASL, but it's limited and crude, so the researchers interpret more complex thoughts from that.
samsonguy920
Imagine how studies go if a group of extra-terrestrials came to study humans. I am sure one of them would give up and decide gorillas are >
Username69420
Well, gorillas don't drop bombs on other gorillas. I think an advanced interstellar race would have respect for that.
samsonguy920
> the primary sentient species here.
samsonguy920
Thank you downvoters, for proving my point.
mycatisstan
Do you actually believe this or are you just trying to make a point?
samsonguy920
Did you want to make a counterpoint or you just want to sound like a primary asshole?
samsonguy920
You don't even bother with the context, but just brush it off as some guy's fantasy and see it as irrelevant. Otherwise you would actually >
IndigoWendigo
Nuh-huh I saw a movie and if we teach them to be smart they will wipe us all
ICallPeoplesBullshit
I can wipe myself just fine, thanks.
IndigoWendigo
Yeah but imagine a gorilla wiping you... you pick you butthole from the floor and in that moment you realize it's the end of mankind.
RancidKippa
Sounds like newspeak
RevolutionOnHerLips
Bonobos are my spirit animal.
hollowbastionx
The fact that our primate counterparts can sign has sparked a debate as to whether other animals have genuine language capabilities or not.
ViciousOtter
We should teach sign language to an octopus, it could rap pretty fast.
Estupigaia
I like you. A lot.
Spune
You. I like you. You can comment on my post any time!
haileythelion
@YouSuckKid another idea I thought would've been yours
SheTurnedMeIntoANewtButIGotBetter
@TinyOctupus what's your view on this subject ?
samsonguy920
I'mma let you finish, but squids be the fastest rap artists of all time.
RevolutionOnHerLips
Octopuses might be smart enough to learn adapted signs, but their typically short lifespans would be a serious hurdle.
ViciousOtter
Live fast, die young, yo, a lot of raper did it before the octupuses
Textuality
https://drawception.com/pub/panels/2014/7-1/zY7qSfpjh6-15.png
danglerfish
Someone fund this idea immediately
roostercrowe
do you WANT our octo-overlords to assume control of the world at an earlier stage than they already have planned?
LongCommentChainAppreciator
I for one welcome our octo-overlords. Having them around would be pretty handy.
leodavinci1
Read Forge of the Elders.
hfpetch
Humans can form almost infinite ideas from finite structures (words). Steven pinker has written some excellent literature here. 2/2
Highlander8795
The 2 things separating us as the dominant species from animals is clear and accurate communication, and opposable thumbs. They're halfway.
asdfghjklinkin
We know for a fact that dolphins do, as they communicate with each other very well.
hollowbastionx
But there is a distinct difference between communication and acquiring language, which is considered uniquely human.
asdfghjklinkin
Yes, but they communicate well enough for it to be considered language.
Judsom
Yeah, the even have their own names and all other dolphins call them by it.
hfpetch
They may be able to use sign and string words together, but they're not forming sentences. Grammar separates our language from this. 1/2
Greeneyeddevil
Orcas appear to exhibit different 'dialects' of whale speak between different pods with many believing this contributes to their stress1/2
Greeneyeddevil
in captive situations, because often they're artificial pods with orcas from all over who literally can't talk to each other or communicate
LogicJab
See that always rustled my jimmies. I've had long discussions about this with many professors (got my MA in anthro). I think we (1/?)
liveandletrawr
I mean the argument you're making essentially is the distinction between human language and animal communication that exists currently
LogicJab
categorize language wrong. In my head, the key to language is communication of ideas. Animals communicate all the time, it's just (2/?)
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egshef
Programming languages != natural languages. They're similar but distinctly different, both conceptually and in practice.
LogicJab
Usually established as body language and calls. But how can animals hunt in complex packs without language? Or think of orangutan long (3/?)
LogicJab
calls or any of the incredibly complex methods animals have to transmit ideas. Granted they're simple ideas, it's not Dr Doolittle's (4/?)
LogicJab
version of CSPAN, but surely their communication is a language in its own form. It's less complex because their brains are. (5/5)
hollowbastionx
My step-mom did work in the psych field pertaining to this. The literature is really fascinating. (2/2)
stingman
Do a post about it!
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supersmashsisters
What are your thoughts on the vocal communication of whales?
WelcomeToTheWasteland
And dolphins
unhombremusulman
whales got me fucked up, especially orcas.
liveandletrawr
Another linguist here. Did you hear the recent news about a chickadee species in Japan that is showing signs of syntax? It's pretty exciting
philosofox
There's also been evidence of dolphins understanding syntax and how word order may change the meaning of sentences.
missmaryMACKMACKMACK
As another linguist ... what?! no, i didn't hear! source?!
liveandletrawr
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160308134748.htm Obviously it's pretty early to make claims this boldly, but still exciting!
missmaryMACKMACKMACK
WOW definitely! thanks!
Spune
I'm not a linguist at all, but tell me all about this dope-ass chickadee and why you're so excited about it!
pandabearsense
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/03/08/these-birds-use-a-linguistic-rule-thought-to-be-unique-to-humans/
theuberkevlar
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/language "(4) : the means by which animals communicate..."
theuberkevlar
Not the primary definition of the word, but still can be called language.
onlyhalfghost
Whales and crows seem to be disagreeing with you.
Kiore
Oh hey I'm glad you pointed it out the entire linguistics field somehow hasn't noticed or studied them at all oh wait yeah we have
Kiore
As another linguist (and sign language user), thank you. The level of communication apes show is astounding, but it is not fluent language.
egshef
In this thread: people who think they know linguistics, and ACTUAL linguists explaining what language ACTUALLY is.
1Geminiborn
Man this is amazing, they should teach all the Apes in captivity ASL, we could finally communicate with our cousins
lombaxattack
This makes me wonder why hearing communities keep Deaf children from using sign language. But let's give language to the animals first!
Taxicat
Many sign language programs are also refusing to hire "native-signors" who are Deaf, too. It's getting really fucked up.
Spune
I mean, you can't really blame animal researches for the actions of misguided parents. Language should be available to all.
DeafMaestro
This happened to me. It was painfully simple-most people, including my parents, just don't care enough to make the effort to learn to sign.
Blackbird2Raven
The gorillas at the Columbus zoo eat their own vomit. No one did it until they brought in a new gorilla, and she taught it to everyone.
Kimiroko
Oh man, I saw that with the gorilla who used to be at the Fort Worth Zoo
RevolutionOnHerLips
That food was so nice I had to eat it twice
lowlight27
That's part of how they digest food, pretty gross
madetheaccountjustforyou
Any mention of how apes go fucking insane after signing for a while?
Muppetwarior
seriously? source on that?
woopwooppulloverdatasstoofat
Not sure about Washoe, but Koko's language abilities have widely been debunked as being pseudoscience or a hoax.
SuperAnalSluts47
Wait sign language for girl is hole?!
Theman098
I mean... in tech terms, "Female" means a connector slot, so i don`t blame them.
bloxman
This gorilla is smarter than most people I know
NinjaCongo
Always wanted to teach a group of chimps sign language, put them on an island that has shrooms growing and come back a year later to
NinjaCongo
see what they're talking about.
lowlight27
I actually volunteered at the Washoe project and got to meet her and her family, I was the only one they didn't throw poo at
UnremarkablyInteresting
Well, ladi frickin da. *throws snickers bar*
LukkaPucca
Give it time. Lol
dynamiteleo
Make a big post about it plz!
dickbuttjim
Poo throwing is always fun!
EntropicEVO
My friend recently got her masters from there. Worked with Dar before he died and before they moved most of them to Canada I believe.
cBattery
My ex was a grad student that studied at CHCI and I was a docent at the time - mid 90's.
lowlight27
I was their friend and got to make them coffee. Her son always wanted to chase me around because I wore sweatshirts and they said I had cool
mcshady
You got to make coffee for a chimpanzee?
DanOrtega
I did too at my office. Although I suspect it was my rather hairy boss. Never could tell, he couldnt ASL, just yell.
IWillBeProctoringTheImgur
He couldn't as hell?
treehatshrimp
اسهال
echokirstne
reference game on point +1
Raeun
I thought you were gonna end at "they though I had cool" and I would've been okay with that
lowlight27
Shoes
AugurOfDunlain
Make a post. Make a post. Make a post, pleaseeeee.
revcleo
shoe pics pls
Spune
That's adorable and sounds like an awesome experience. I've always wanted to work with animals like that, you're very lucky.
malachitedragon
They gave the chimps coffee?
FauxThePheonix
Decaf. They wanted whatever the humans had. I worked with them for 5 years
Porrang
You made coffee for gorillas?
IDoNotBelieveYou
What else would they drink? Tea. The answer is most certainly tea.
lowlight27
They watched me make coffee one morning and made the sign for coffee and the handlers had to give them some.
DaddyWolf
...um ...water?
jakovii
what shoes??
WhatsAJib
Blinker sneakers.
idonthaveanyideawhatthehelliamtalkingabout
air jordans
IAmCthulhu
Pumas
lowlight27
They were adidas and when they brought us in to meet the family of chimps; Washoe tapped on the glass and kept pointing and brushing two...
lowlight27
Fingers across her forehead which is their sign for cool (asl for black) and knocked her hands together for the sign for shoes. I got to get
onepositivedude
crocs
TheGuywithTehHat
White Vans
jakovii
damn, daniel
teamfraggle
It thats true, we want more then just coffee making stories
Derfboy
Approved!
JazzJazz9797
You should defenetly do a job stories, or AMA about your expiriences!
lowlight27
How do I do that? I'm new to imgur so I'm only learning the ropes
youarenotmyfriends
You take a picture or pictures off the internet or ones you have taken that depict your job and maybe put some white text on the image (1/?)
youshouldbuyarowingmachine
Gorillas jerk off a fair bit too.
underlord2132
I mean humans do as well, but we still manage to get stuff done.
WeirdOneWithaWhip
Yeah, because it...feels good. *ducks*
LizardEnterprises
They got nothing on bonobos though.
ragnar34
I prefer to think this is another sign of intelligence. I VERY much prefer to think that.
HeyLookAGinger
Nope just healthy body maintenance habits.
CObullUshitGH
Not as much as I , says me.
ticktockbent
and now someone should link the gif of the chimp using the frog. You know the one.
DicksMcChuggins
One of us! One of us!
Mababa17
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
brassknucklenerd
I jerked it twice while reading this post.
hunnybunches
Proven human.
Spune
So do captive humans, to be fair. Free humans too, for that matter.
grandfalloon
Usually when I'm captive, my hands can't reach. It's okay though. Things get worked out after a bit.
commissarrycor
Once a day on average, course sometimes I can't be bothered
ThatCanadianViking
Just how iften cant you be bothered? A once a day average changes drastically if you dont diidle your danglies for a month or two a year.
commissarrycor
Well I get up at 0430 so I tend to jerk while watching porn on my living room tv before work, however other days I just eat breakfast
Spune
We also need to account for those all-day jackathons!
youshouldbuyarowingmachine
Yeah... That's kinda my point.
Spune
Got ya, we're all a bunch of wankers in the great ape family I suppose.
HeyLookAGinger
It's actually good for our health and well being.
ApplesdaKitty
and can you believe there are nuts out there that are looking for a missing link? they only need to open up an incognito tab. link found.
Grudgebearingmidget
How the fuck does this not have more upvotes!? +1 you magnificent fucker
everythingisalieexceptthestuffthatisnt
Holy shit, pun overload. +1
Laserdiscmemories
It's good to know that Gorillas can hold corporate office.
lowlight27
They did and if you weren't careful they'd throw it... They also have nasty looking bums
steveofthejungle
With their tiny one and a half inch penis
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BigDaddysMeatWagon
Like you've never jerked off with something weird.
pobody
that video can not be unseen.
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skwint
I wonder if this is actually an evolutionary pressure _against_ evolving opposable thumbs?
goddamngenius
For better grip.
lulu82
I enjoy saying 'huzzah!' at the zoo when they start.
CubanDoctorRapist
people who say animals don't have souls are retarted
Nikolai5
Animals don't have souls. Humans are animals.
FaolanMacduncan
animals don't have souls, souls don't exist, everything is chemicals.
Gomer592
i never said they don't have souls, i Know they have emotion and logic and as much of a souls as anyone, but they are still delicious
CubanDoctorRapist
mmmm, yes they are