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Nov 13, 2019 8:35 AM
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NRXNext
I feel conflicted about this.
ArronVonBlackwolf
Just called to confirm this is real. took a few mins for someone to answer but she was kid and confirmed everything this said. Thank you.
SlightlyDodgy
After watching an interesting bio on Bela Lugosi it reminded me it's important to remember some people are not addicts through choice.
MrsRodriguez
Not a single addict is an "addict by choice".
SlightlyDodgy
I understand the point you are getting at, however in a previous career I have met several people who did. In Bela's case he was war vet /1
SlightlyDodgy
/2 who was injured in service and was prescribed opioid based painkillers without information about addiction prevention, because no-one was
hannahmpryce
Until a person is ready to get clean, harm reduction is so very important. This is a great resource.
WraithTDK
"no choice?" Look, it's certainly better to have someone to monitor your situation than to do it alone; but let's not forward...
WraithTDK
the narrative that a person has "no choice." There's always a choice.
pharmphoxmitchell
Umm. You tell that to a dope addict who is sick at and desperate. You know how many times I od'd cause I had no one around?
WraithTDK
And how many of those times did you have no choice? And if you say more than zero, you tell me what robbed you of the choice to not use.
fedeColorTerror
Your body and your mind. They did. I have never had a drug addiction, but I have had eating problems. You don't stop when you want. You stop
fedeColorTerror
when you are healed mentally and, for drug substances, also physically
baltnerdguy
Probably the highly addictive drug.
WraithTDK
The highly addictive drug didn't take his choice AWAY. It just made it harder to make the RIGHT choice.
pyr0chaos
Genuine question, Have you first hand experienced or seen addiction? It throws your logic out the window. Gone, bye bye, poof. Replaced
WraithTDK
I have. And that's as much detail as I'm going to give on that. But here's the thing, as often as I've indulged my addiction, when I look...
WraithTDK
back? The most infuriating thing about it is that there was not a single time - not ONCE - when I didn't have a choice. No one ever...
WraithTDK
held a gun to my head and made me do what I did. My family was never kidnapped and threatened with violence if I didn't do it. I did it...
pyr0chaos
With an immediate need to remedy your sickness. Sometimes you even "forget" that your trying to stop it. You make a decision that 'im done
pyr0chaos
From bow on' and then all of a sudden you see yourself doing it again and you have no fucking idea when it happened, or why you ignored
pyr0chaos
Yourself. Of course like everything its case by case, but it most definitely can and will affect your logic in many ways.
WraithTDK
That doesn't mean you had choice but to do it again. It means you couldn't resist making the wrong choice. There's a difference, and it...
AyjayBenson
I can’t be sure of the actual numbers but it’s something like 80% of IV Drug users always use with somebody else but 80% of users who die ..
ishotjfktwice
Me and everyone I used to know almost always alone I’ve never heard that before
AyjayBenson
of an overdose are found alone.
octosocks
Or left alone once their mates realise what's happened
WookieWookieWookie
Yeah I don't think drug addicts are super loyal friends when shit is going down. I wouldn't count on them to stick around.
AyjayBenson
As a recovered addict I’d have to agree with you. We have laws now that protect you if you’re using and have to call first responders, but
AyjayBenson
not sure if a lot of people know that. (I’m in Canada)
clovershappen
Sounds like a great way to generate a load of hoax calls and overwork for emergency services.
VodkaReindeer
People prank call them anyways.
textilelover
Do you believe addicts who OD and die just get what is coming to them and we should just let them die?
AmArschdieRaeuber
Many people probably think that, yes. Not very good people.
ChesterSnapdragonMcFistycuffs
Sure, this happens in any service - is it a reason not to provide it?
krownd
Yes
fedeColorTerror
You didn't think this through very well. Think about it and keep it as an experience
krownd
Yes I did, my opinion isn't modified by downvotes, 140 characters would be too short and I really don't care about justifying myself
fedeColorTerror
I am not judging or trying to make you feel bad.bibdidnt Eve downvote it. I don't care about votes or anything. I am trying to show you
killdread
Alright, guess we'll cancel the cops and firefighters too while we're at it
inconsolabledeplorable
U.S. - Health care costs are out of control! Also U.S. - Let's cater to druggies for free and shunt productive members of society.
killdread
I don't really see how calling them a several thousand dollar taxi and possibly getting them arrested is catering but alright.
LollieCom
I wanted to check it before sharing. It's ringing and ringing and ringing. There was no answer.
weirdozzie
Fimbulgr
For anyone interested I'd recommend "chasing the scream" a book by johann hari. It's an amazing look at the failing drug war and addiction.
HankHell2400
I understand trying to help people in tough situations, but this one reeeally feels like it's nudging over the line into flat out enabling.
jeffro7404
My point is junkies get arrested and then live on tax payers money. all because of a CHOICE they are making!
AlphaKenneyBody
My lifelong friend died in June of this year. (Fentanyl laced H). I wish he’d seen this and utilized it. I also wish he’d stopped using
TaiwanTammy
Always conflicted about these services being borderline enabling/helping. Never been in that situation so I guess it's not for me to judge.
SparrowBird5000
I mean, people are gonna use, anyway. I'd rather someone have someone else available to call 911 if something happens. It's not like they're
SparrowBird5000
giving you the drugs and putting them into their system. Not much different than someone calling 911 because someone with type 2 diabetes
SparrowBird5000
goes down from unregulated blood sugar.
blairmichod
This. No one isn't shooting up due to lack of a service like this.
Xerxes4242
I have a hard time supporting any measure that doesn't include an expectation for the person to get help. Strikes me as enabling.
bingotown
Is this about butt plugs?
drunkenvulcan
Good idea, better idea might be to make narcan freely available to the public and not just opiod addicts
thatguy10095
In my county it is, there are frequent free narcan trainings and at all of them they give out the kit
PsiloPsybin
Wow. I had no idea this existed. As a former cokehead, this is awesome.
dragontrove
There's also safe use locations as well. They have doctors that work in the building and you can safely use there with immediate attention(1
dragontrove
if needed. They also have resources for quitting and sometimes Drug User Anonymous meetings as well. There're several locations in the US
WackyPaki
I'd be utterly disappointed in humanity if no one used this service for a bating session..
Gaverus
I used to manage a crisis hotline. I could tell you stories...
1staRCHer
Please do.
FreeRangeToast
i LOVE this. the attitude our government takes on drugs is in need of serious reform. wish i knew about this a year ago when my friend ODed
Onlyhereforthelaughs
I don't do drugs, but I'll upvote this.
ZarkFury
Hi, hello, im trying inject some knowledge into my brain, but my brain is refusing it
jeffro7404
I love The Regardless if you have ins or not. I have cancer (sorry) you don't qualify!! but let me choose to inject this drug. COVERED!
Ikwilstroopwaffels
Because you need help does not mean other people do not deserve help too.
CaptainCaptObvious
There are programs that can cover your cancer treatment so how about quit thinking the world should only cater to you (not sorry)
TheLesserOfTwoWeevils
that's an argument for covering more medical conditions, not taking things away from other people.
JessaNub
My little brother died of an heroin overdose alone in an alley. Wish he had known about this.
ScoobyDoobyDeuce
Goddamn. Sorry, friend. That really sucks.
ICanOnlyGrowCactus
I'm sorry bud. I was a street kid for 9 years and the number of friends I've lost to that shit is staggering. If you wanna talk I'm here.
JessaNub
I’m sorry for your losses as well, and the offer of listening goes both ways.
ICanOnlyGrowCactus
Thank you very much for that.
TrapsAreIllegal
The question is would he have used it? Many addicts won't seek help because their addiction blinds them.
JessaNub
I suppose we will never know, but I like to think he would. I can definitely see your point though!
ialwayswantedthat
I’m sorry.
Commentsaboutyourusername
Jess that's awful. People on here would certainly be willing to listen if you wanted to talk
JessaNub
I wouldn’t even know where to start, honestly.
MorrighanWolf
Pretty much just talk it out. Sorry for your loss, lass.
Commentsaboutyourusername
You just word vomit
Guantanamobaae
I’ve lost countless friends to overdoses. Been to a lot of funerals in recovery but I’ve been to more sober/clean anniversary celebrations..
Guantanamobaae
It’s so hard to cope and wrap your head around an overdose. It impacts so many people. I’m here if you need to talk about it.
ialwayswantedthat
I lost@my big sister. Her “friends” left her and called 911 from another location so they wouldn’t get arrested.
JessaNub
I am so sorry for your loss. As far as her “friends”, I 100% believe in karma. It’ll sort them out for what they let happen.
ICanOnlyGrowCactus
I'm terribly sorry for your loss. I couldn't imagine the anger you've had to deal with. I'm here if you need to talk.
ialwayswantedthat
Thank you so much. It was about 20 years ago. The trippiest (saddest?) thing was when I realized I was older than she would ever be.
ICanOnlyGrowCactus
It's incomparable but I placed a son for adoption in highschool and soon he'll be the same age I was when I had him and it blows my mind.
12GaPoopRockets
Yeah, much better to die alone in an alley with a phone in your hand I guess.
JessaNub
Based on your comment history you’re a pretty negative person and I’m sorry you have to think like that dude:
12GaPoopRockets
thanks, your pity has saved my damaged soul.
mamacouch62
Why you gotta be an ass?
lyssapants
Can we do this with prescriptions we’ve never taken before? All those side effects are crazy! Maybe call back ever half hour or hour?
VodkaReindeer
You won't get all the side effects. Good chance you won't get any.
lyssapants
I get that. My biggest fear is being allergic to it really. What if my throat swells shut and no one is around? It freaks me out..
VodkaReindeer
If it makes you feel any better, that can happen without any reason, too. So you're always in danger, even when not ingesting anything.
lyssapants
Woo!
Xisledd
"crazy" doesn't include a high probability of death that unprescribed drugs include....
lyssapants
Death due to asphyxiation because of an allergy..
IAmGrimReaper
What it's about??? Drugs??
MrsRodriguez
Yes it's this massive movement now where instead of curing addiction we simply let drug addicts continue to use in better environments..
wozat
No, only substances.
AhmedTheClockMaker
This is kind of amazing. I’m sure others will disagree but anyone willing to call is seemingly already willing to to ask for help
AhmedTheClockMaker
I mean regardless of anything, it’s better than them being found days or hours later by a loved one.
drcurlyfat
This just happened to a co-worker of mine. Known and worked with him for years. No one even thought he did anything but drink. Fentanyl OD.
drcurlyfat
He was found a day later. He died alone after two friends were too busy to go on a ride with him. They're a bit fucked up. It's all fucked.
AhmedTheClockMaker
That’s fucking horrid. I had a family friend very close to us OD on pills. His best friend found him. His girlfriend was driving 5 hours to
AhmedTheClockMaker
Check on him when she got the call.
AhmedTheClockMaker
I’m sorry about your friend. That’s a terrible way to lose someone.
THEfreshestbrew
And I bet just the act of calling and talking could deter said person from using potentially
SometimesIfindmyselfstaringatwomensbreastwhenImtryingtoconverse
2/2 Harmless houshold supplies
GeminiBattle
If I knew this was available 15 years ago I might still be using. Using alone is what made me stop for fear of dying and no one knowing.
SnivellusSnape
Its the same logic as: Banning abortion doesn't stop abortions, it increases deaths of women.
voluptuousdebaucheries
So, sound logic.
UncleBiscuits
Similar to monitored injecting sites. Don't know how I feel about this, but if people are going to use in some way, at least it can be safe.
MrPoopStick
'Yes, this is President Trump. I'm ready for help now.'
xo101
Someone just got drugs, found a place to be while they prepare and inject the drugs, and now ... I don’t see people making that call. >
xo101
Do addicts actually pause and do something constructive before using? I do think it would be a helpful service, but do you actually care >
xo101
whether you OD or not?
Guantanamobaae
Recovering addict here, there is absolutely nothing that can convince an addict to quit The addict has to decide for themselves. Until ...
Guantanamobaae
They decide this service may at least keep them alive king enough to hit bottom. Coming up on five years substance-free, I’m grateful for...
Guantanamobaae
Those who selflessly helped me the way they were selflessly helped. Today I’m heavily involved in recovery, I sponsor four guys right now...
Guantanamobaae
I have an amazing career. I get the privilege of being a good father again. You never know when the light will come on for someone...
Guantanamobaae
Never give up on us. Not all make it, but not all stay in that substance trap. If anyone is still suffering out there feel free to DM me.
KeithE01
No, it’s enabling of the highest ( no pun intended) order. Oh you poor thing, go ahead and shoot up, I’m here for you.
plautzypoo
I guarantee that someone who is using frequently enough, where this becomes a useful tool, does not see this as enabling
angelfixer
While you are entitled to speak, and voice an opinion, this does not make you right. Learn to think about both sides
atheistzombie
Fuck your ridiculous moralizing.
KeithE01
Everything has an excuse as long as it’s not personal responsibility, right? They could use that same phone to get treatment instead.
RestlessBitchface
Ok Boomer.
NicolaVison
So you prefer a dead person over an alive addict? Fuck you and your whole crew
weaslor
Sure, and let's remove crash barriers on motorways because they enable speeding by providing a lifeline.
Theverant
That's a pretty insightful POV. Why is it important to help people when they are making mistakes, protect them from their mistakes?
CodeChimpin
I’d say it’s more focused on a solvable problem rather than an unsolvable one.
Theverant
Why do you think people use hard drugs?
Theverant
I think people who downvote an honest question need to take a step back. I won't ask y'all to think, i wouldn't want you to blow a gasket
Onlymadethistocommentoneday
Because of people like @KeithE01
KeithE01
Sure, it’s all my fault idiots make poor decisions. Hey, heroin is such a good idea, let’s do some! Shooting up meth, he’ll yeah!
Theverant
Well maybe yes, it was an honest query
TerryCrews
Because they work?
Theverant
To do what
TerryCrews
They work as advertised.
kp41
Your comment ignorance of the highest order.
SSColonelHansLanda
So where I live we had a period were ODed people corpses would be found in dumpsters or public toilets because the police would arrest
SSColonelHansLanda
the one who was a companion with the dead person and reported the case, now that has changed, you won’t be arrested or questioned if you
SSColonelHansLanda
report about a dead person from ODing, thankfully we don’t find corpses in dumpsters anymore
IceCracker
Can't be questioned if you report an OD? Wanna murder someone? Just stick 'em with some fentanyl and be like "oh we were using officer"
SSColonelHansLanda
He will be questioned about the death circumstances, but will not be persecuted for his drug addiction
IceCracker
Username does, in fact, NOT check out lol
Antrazit
Addiction is a disease imo, so we should treat it as such
SidneyHarbor
That would imply we want to make it stop. The current trend is to make all drugs legal, which means it's not a disease, it's recreation.
hip2bsquare
That's actually a viewpoint I have not heard before and has some merit. +1
SidneyHarbor
We live in interesting times for sure.
margaretfoster0710
Anyone down voting knows nothing about addiction and the brain mechanisms behind it. But go ahead, down vote me into oblivion, y'all. ?
12GaPoopRockets
More of a plague.
MrsRodriguez
I never agree with this statement. To become an addict you have to take the first step. They don't start off addicted.
Antrazit
Many diseases are a consequence of your actions. Eat shit for 20 years, become diabetic, that's a disease.
zoeytg
It never starts usually with the substance itself. There are other deeper problems. I couldn't sleep after my military service 1/2
zoeytg
So I drank, a little till I needed more to get any sleep. Then my doctor gave me Oxy's for something else. I traded everything.... 2/3
zoeytg
Just to find some peace. Didn't even admit I was an addict till I was homeless and Doctor told me my body was failing. Even then didn't stop
jeffro7404
NO it's not it's a damn choice!
ImSmallPleaseHoldMe
This might be ironic
Justheretowastemytime
Good argument. Sure convinced me
HarmonAtri
To start, sure. Stopping after you've become addicted isn't exactly easy without serious help. That's kind of the point.
JustLettingPeopleBeWrong
Yes. It is. But this sort of empathetic outreach is an important step in providing such treatment.
NegmieStar
Agreed!
romicra88
A disease implies there is no choice in the users abuse of the substance. There is a choice, though likely a hard one, but it's there
AmArschdieRaeuber
Of course with extreme willpower addiction wouldn't be a problem, but the drug alters your brains chemistry, giving the drug a similar
AmArschdieRaeuber
priority (or even a higher priority) as food, water and sleep. People describe it as feeling like their hands move on their own when using.
painintheasterisk
This. People are quick to say “you can just not do it,” but fail to realize that our entire body is controlled by the chemicals and...
painintheasterisk
...neurotransmissions. Thoughts and actions are controlled by a delicate chemistry in the brain. Drugs can alter your brain chemistry...
painintheasterisk
...long-term and even permanently. Addiction is a disease.
heisenbug42
Plenty of diseases could be described this way. Diabetes 2 and heart disease can be caused by poor lifestyle choices. Over time >>>
heisenbug42
those choices cause physical changes resulting in a disease. The only difference between those two and addiction is what parts of your >>>
romicra88
You still choose to take drugs. After addiction that choice is harder to make. You don't choose to take diabetes or cancer.
heisenbug42
body are changed. I’m the case of drug use your brain becomes physically hard wired for addiction.
MrsRodriguez
Those disease are also both hereditary so...
romicra88
Not to mention you don't choose to take in a disease where initial substance use is entirely by choice. Doesnt mean shame them but it
romicra88
Shouldnt be called something it's not.
AmArschdieRaeuber
Addiction is a mental disease by defintion.
RationalViking
Addiction is hereditary. To call addiction a choice is like callig depression a choice.
romicra88
No, being more susceptible to addiction is hereditary. Which is not equal to disease. You still have to use to become addicted.
TheJudgeHasItBackwards
So by that logic, lung cancer isn't a disease, because someone chose to smoke? AIDS isn't a disease because you chose unprotected sex? Huh.
romicra88
Yes life choices cause them but they're no longer a choice after contracting them. You don't keep taking aids or cancer.
blairmichod
This is part of treating that disease.
Teleomniscope
I don't really understand the disease model of addiction, what makes you think it's more disease than something else?
AmArschdieRaeuber
It fits the definition of disease. "A disorder of structure or function in a human". Addiction alters the chemistry of your brain.
IHateTrumpButNotYou
Also if medical doctors who spend their lives treating addiction all agree that it's a disease we should probably listen
MrsRodriguez
But not all medical doctors agree on this.
Teleomniscope
I wasn't under the impression that all doctors had a consensus that it is a disease. Can you direct me to any articles/studies?
SociopathicOtter
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44147493/ns/health-addictions/t/addiction-now-defined-brain-disorder-not-behavior-issue/
EhIsForCanehdians
Its agreed upon by the medical community and fits the definition of a disease. What else would you call it?
BishlamekGurpgork
I think it's important to TREAT it as a mental health disease, because right now, we can give someone who's OD'd a shot to halt the effects
BishlamekGurpgork
of the drug and save their life, but then they can check themselves out, try to get high, fail because we just gave them that shot, inject
BishlamekGurpgork
more because it isn't working, then more, until that shot wears off and they have an OD that just crushes them. Because it's not classified
BishlamekGurpgork
as any kind of mental disorder, in the US there are zero grounds for holding an addict under observation after an OD to make sure they don't
rocketpanda
Maybe you can at least see it as a public health issue? Either way people are dying and it should be addressed.
Teleomniscope
Completely, I work with addicts under a public health contract, I'm just curious about people's perceptions on addiction
heisenbug42
The difference between someone who uses recreationally vs someone who becomes addicted is usually an underlying mental health issue to >>>
heisenbug42
start with. Then, the more your brain re-wires it’s pleasure and reward centers to be dependent on that substance. Your brain becomes >>>
heisenbug42
physically hard wired for addiction. If you look at countries like Portugal that have decriminalized drugs and treat it like a health >>>
heisenbug42
issue, the drug use rates in those countries have gone down significantly.
SnivellusSnape
I listened to a podcast with an adictionologist. Essentially it *isnt* a disease but society and addicts respond best when we agree to treat
SnivellusSnape
it as such.
AmArschdieRaeuber
It literally is a disease. "a disorder of structure or function in a human." The affected structure is the brain mostly.
Teleomniscope
Any chance you could point me in the direction of that podcast?
SnivellusSnape
[Ologies with Alie Ward] Addictionology (ADDICTION) with Erin Paris - it was in the question section I think, cant listen now
Alecchi
So does he think OCD isn't a disorder also? Other compulsions? There's literally new synapses being formed in addicts minds
SnivellusSnape
Having synapses form isnt a disease...
MistressLyda
Heh, for my sake, it is the other way around. I can't comprehend how it is possible to see it as a... hobby?
Teleomniscope
Are there any other ways you could comprehend it other than a disease or a hobby?
MistressLyda
Not so far no. Every theory I'v read (barring conspiracy theories) boils down to either illness, or "people choosing idiotic thing to do".
Teleomniscope
@ShardofWinter shared this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park which I hadn't seen, you might find it interesting too
Norok0311
What? Crippling addiction isn't your hobby? Well more for me then.
Justheretowastemytime
How about a choice?
MistressLyda
In some cases, yeah, I can see how it is one in a way. Similar to cutting, anorexia/bulimia and so on.
thatguy10095
1) Self harm is largely being treated as an addiction and eating disorders are diagnosable mental illnesses. While a choice is made sure,
IHateTrumpButNotYou
People suffering addiction disorder's have brains that interact differently with these substances making it nearly impossible to stop using
Teleomniscope
What do you mean by addiction disorders? Is that a general interpretation or a standardised diagnosis?
SociopathicOtter
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44147493/ns/health-addictions/t/addiction-now-defined-brain-disorder-not-behavior-issue/
Teleomniscope
That was interesting, thank you. Do you think it's an underlying genetic disorder that causes the afflicted to first take on an addiction?
TheSwedishCryptid
Genuine question "Regardless if you have insurance or not" means 'we will help you regardless but still expect payment' doesn't it?
LadyLatte
People assume lack of insurance is a barrier. Nonprofits often mention none is needed so people call.
thatguy10095
It depends, there are nonprofits that help with these kind of things. The help might just be getting them insurance coverage, or more.
AllthegooduserNsaretake
Usually it means they will automatically bill you as an out-of-network provider, but probably won't send it to collections if you don't pay.
gadaboutpoet
From my experience volunteering with helplines like this, it likely means they have lists of treatment resources, some have options for 1/2
gadaboutpoet
under- or un-insured people. The number connects callers to help and likely doesn't charge for the support they provide.
whatpassesforclever
We already have universal healthcare, it’s called the ER.
PajamaStripes
No. There are different rehab centers. Some are cheaper/not as nice as others. Insurance gets you into a nicer facility.
wibbIywobbIytimeywimey
Rehab facilities are a scam, not saying rehab is for quitters, but the system is itself is a joke.
lariskyme1
I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way. I was close to death in 83 from cocaine abuse. Called a treatment center and although not fun, 1/2
wibbIywobbIytimeywimey
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hWQiXv0sn9Y watch this and you’ll understand my meaning. Keep up the good clean living though! 1day @a time!
lariskyme1
It not only saved my life then, it gave me the resources to continue living. There are still good ones out there. Few and far between. 2/3
lariskyme1
Someone has to want to get clean. It's not like it's a magic pill to do the work for you. Using is work and getting clean is harder. 3/3
Becker37
Thank you. All of these "resources" are a fucking joke.
thatguy10095
Genuinely curious, what you believe are good alternatives for people seeking recovery from addiction?
Becker37
Unfortunately there is no alternative. Society is all about what looks good on paper and fuck reality.
wibbIywobbIytimeywimey
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hWQiXv0sn9Y