EsquivAlien
186240
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Hedge funds can bet that stocks will go down in the future, and they do this to create capital and leverage to trade stocks they actually care about.
Technically, anyone can do this, its just typically a tool of the multibillion dollar hedge funds.
Currently, a bunch of everyday traders on reddit decided they think GameStop is actually still worth money. They have been buying the stock, causing the stock price to rise, and the hedgefunds to potentially lose their bet on the $GME stock to the tune of $13 billion.
Understandably, the SEC is following this debacle, but there really isn't anything illegal going on here. This may come into question in the future, but because this is a bunch of individuals that just happen to talk on reddit occasionally this doesn't meet the current definition of insider trading.
VERY IMPORTANT - do not take this as an investment tip, and *never* invest more than you have to lose
Shorting stocks may sound made up... and it kind of is, most things on the stock market are nowadays
All of these are predicted to decrease in price, AMC and even blackberry (lol) may be up next. Gamestop's in particular was appraised at a nonsense loss value of over 100% - meaning it was heavily heavily shorted.
Because shorted stocks haven't technically been "bought" yet, you can "buy" more than exist.
If this sounds ridiculous - it is. But that's the stockmarket for ya
The redditors who bought the stock are now in control (the squeeze) - they set the price they want to sell the stock at, and currently, it would sell for more money than the funds are worth
It's a game of chicken, but the redditors have no reason to blink first
GameStop won't be hurt by this either. The biggest potential negative is if Melvin goes under, pension plans could lose value, but the government has bailed these companies out for less than this before.
The stockmarket crash back in 2008 was the culmination of decades of bad loan practices in the housing market. This was just greed on behalf of the hedgefunds to make a quick profit - and they got called out.
They got their bailouts for far worse then but never really learned any lessons and have continued the high risk/high reward speculative trading practices...
The stockmarket is ALL speculative, and stocks haven't represented the worth of the company in a literal sense in decades
Tldr;
The rules are made up but the points definitely matter. By betting that GameStop would fail as a company, hedgefunds engaging in reckless stock shorting may lose billions of dollars because a community of redditors felt GameStop deserved a second chance
FP edit:
> I can't speak to the character of the redditors that sparked this whole thing, just that they are very much not a billion dollar hedgefund trading millions of stock. This has grown beyond reddit too, that's just where it started.
> If a government bailout is used, it will be with American tax dollars, but taxes are poorly spent all the time despite Wallstreet actually suffering some consequence this time
> this is more about beating the hedgefunds at their own game. Companies that make their profits manipulating the stock market in one form or other. They greedily (and stupidly) bought almost 140% of GME for a quick buck, something they do all the time in various ways. But this time their bluff got called, and in a big way.
> the housing market crash wasn't short stock trading. It was massively more compex than that, but i draw the comparison because that too was fueled by greed (from banks) but on a much much much larger scale
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/gamestop-short-sellers-squeezed-losses-reddit-traders-army-cohen-palihapitiya-2021-1-1030006226
sickandtired365
I knew some of these words!
Bantasm
Hedge funds sell short & publicly badmouth companies to force the price down. Now they are upset at being beaten in their own game.
jbptrnd
Selling short does not materially depress a company’s stock price. Talking it down publicly might, if people believe the hedge fund.
SomebodyThatIsntMe
forget $192... they opened at $355 today!!!!
KissMyAshhole
Still pushing 370 too lol
Bantasm
Mind you, there’s more short sellers piling in waiting for the inevitable crash, so this will be just a temporary setback for them.
wikkozki
Since this stock is now ridiculously overpriced, wouldn't it actually make sense to short the stock once everything dies done?
TheOldSchoolisBack
“Once everything dies down” will be far too late. Price will already have cratered. You’d have to do it now, which is still risky.
WinstonSmith101
Can we sell shares in the company that bought GAmestock shares? Seems like their value is about to go down...
attofreak
But more permanent for retail traders. r/WSB is openly advertising how bad crowd manipulation by retail traders can be. Hedge funds do it>
attofreak
too, no doubt, but they got an army of lawyers advising them on how to do it surreptitiously and with subtlety. r/WSB is publicly posting.
WinstonSmith101
Is that illegal? First amendment rights apply, surely?
attofreak
Just guessing here, but considering how targetted, irrational and emotionally charged some of those WSB posts were, and the actual impact>
Cilvaa
Elon Musk tweeted about it, causing $GME to rise significantly. Musk HATES hedge funds because they frequently short his companies' stocks.
Frelock
Well yeah, because in a sane world Tesla would be and up-and-coming company, not more valuable than the next 5 car manufacturers combined.
canhastruth
Tesla is extremely over valued and knowing musk he will incite people to protect his stock valuation. This is why he is doing this
torillatavataan
Just in case you want to actually invest is stocks: Choose the sum you want to invest over 2 years. Choose an index. Buy every 2-4 weeks.
torillatavataan
2/? Buy the stocks on the index in random order. Never sell. Reinvest dividends. If you do it exactly like this, you have guarded against..
torillatavataan
3/? price fluctuations, fees, and emotional decisions, which are the three most common ways in which you can lose money on the stock market.
torillatavataan
4/? These may sound weird, but they are the best decisions it's possible to make, assuming that it's impossible to guess the future.
torillatavataan
5/5 The basic idea is to become a part owner of all the companies whose stocks you bought, and as long as they make profit, you will too.
PontiacDude
Alright I’ll check out AMC. Holy shit it’s up 5x already
bugeyetex
I bought a few shares the other day just because it was comically cheap. Its going to be an interesting day
PontiacDude
My coworker did the same at two and sold at three. He’s already pissed off
iwritespankyaliens
Yeah, I got it under $3 because it was so low, now it’s insane just how much it has gone up. I wanna hold & now I’m scared of this bubble!
Nova5269
Just keep a CONSTANT eye on it. As soon as it drops 10% fucking BAIL
iwritespankyaliens
I never bought it to drop it, I don’t want to sell at all :/
AlexisActually
AMC is being pumped and dumped to make more money for GME. This is not financial advice, I'm just kinda echoing what wsb commentors said.
fowlersleftfoot
Just FYI, the guys on WSB aren’t “normal guys” they’re toxic, homophobic circlejerkers that celebrated musk when he called for a coup.
NoneOfThemKnew
Anti-heroes are pretty popular nowadays.
bouncebounceandtheclaw
Someone on here recommended the podcast episode about Musk on Behind The Bastards. SO interesting. I have a new favorite podcast now.
fowlersleftfoot
Good podcast. Hitchcock episode painted a real dark picture of how he mentally ruined Tippi Hedren
fowlersleftfoot
Great to see the hedge funds getting ruined, but don’t turn these cunts into heroes
IThinkYouGotAFineBrainJack
They do have some dank memes though.
fowlersleftfoot
The third reich had the best memes, but we got to take the whole picture
YourNeighborhoodLesbian
Imma turn the people making this happen heros, wsb is just the middle man
TheOldSchoolisBack
Wsb insiders are likely the only ones who profit off this. They incited the mob to drive the price up.
YourNeighborhoodLesbian
Those people can bail whenever they want. The stock market is a gamble more often than not. Don't put in what you aren't willing to lose.
RandomInternetAsshole
isn't that most of reddit?
fowlersleftfoot
Not the subs I follow. Depends where you’re going
RandomInternetAsshole
I don't see much of it in the subs I follow either, but most of my interests are pretty niche. I see a great deal of it in the popular ones
boblives
Tesla is valued at more than GM and Ford combined and I'm pretty sure Ford sells more F 150 in a year than tesla has sold in its entire life
willypete401
Why would Tesla sell F-150s? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Kooks
But Tesla is more than just a car company. They have other avenues so ofc it’s going to be valued higher
boblives
It's the growth, Ford can pretty much grow in like single percentage points, but tesla could double sales just by opening a new factory
Kooks
I mean and the fact that it includes solar city and invests in other things besides vehicles, unlike ford
ForgeGoremann
IHonestlyHaveNoIdeaWhatToNameMyself
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/25/bill-ackman-exits-market-hedges-uses-2-billion-he-made-to-buy-more-stocks-including-hilton.html
IHonestlyHaveNoIdeaWhatToNameMyself
Hedge funds scamming retail investors out of millions during a global pandemic, but when the common man follows their example it’s a problem
zeiji
legality unclear. poor people making money playing rich people's game must surely be illegal right ?
pumper
A lot of them are not poor to begin with. Look at some reddit posts, you can't have 100s of ks to gamble and consider yourself poor.
zeiji
yea there well off, but compared to companies to who usually manipulate the market and such they are "poor"
pumper
Thing is that the millionaire redditors are the ones pushing for the short squeeze because they will be the ones benefiting the most from it
pumper
and they are banking on the dumb and actually poor dudes holding the stock longer than they will.
madbydesign
Regular folk going after the filthy rich on their own turf and beating them at their own game. I like it.
PictureArchiver
I think after this week they’re not going to be all that filthy rich anymore.
SteelTech
Its literally a pump and dump. They are just putting a spin on it. Unless they genuinely plan to hold the stock.
therealSKYKING
Holding until $1000 per share, at least. That's the plan. Diamond hands.
pangolinx
The tweets are flat wrong about a key fundamental point, tho. The hedge fund losing does NOT mean the reddit traders profiting. The tweeter/
pangolinx
is someone who understands *enough* about how shorts work to get excited about this, but not enough to realize who really profits
pangolinx
It's not the reddit folk and its (mostly) not Gamestop. The winner is the counterparty to the short. Probably a bunch of giant banks.
jayar1st
As long as the redditors are selling before a massive dip, they are definitely making a significant profit.
Womjem
Is there a part I missed that said the redditors were hoping to financially gain from this? My understanding is their primary goal was to—
Womjem
—make the hedge fund suffer, not to make money.
pangolinx
See the 4th tweet from the top that was posted, and several under it. This isn't a wealth transfer from hedge fun to redditors.
TheOldSchoolisBack
At lot of those regular folks are going to lose almost all the money they put in. Essentially taking a loss to try to cause someone else’s.
therealSKYKING
lol I turned $280 into $1400+ in the past 2 days. The person who "discovered" GME turned $50k into $48mil. And it's only going higher.
jayar1st
Not necessarily. I bought early and secured a fraction off profits already. Even if it dropped it zero I'm still up a tiny percent.
TheOldSchoolisBack
Sure, good for you. But unless anyone thinks that price is sustainable, someone is going to be holding the bag.
jayar1st
Hopefully it ends up being the hedgefunds holding.
TheOldSchoolisBack
It will be both. Hedge funds have to make margin calls when their short stock rises. If they can’ then their positions are liquidated. 1/2
FunEndsHere
So how does this exactly blow up the hedge fund? Asking for a friend who's not too smart
Logansrunnybottom
Fyi it blows up the hedge fund first, then it blows up the retail inveators that "held their nerve". Meanwhile/r instigators have sold out.
NotAgainRichard
and the taxpayer covers the hedge fund bailout, so its a heads i win tails you lose situation.
TheOldSchoolisBack
No one is going to bailout the losers in this. Gamestop isn’t exactly a systemically important business.
BDSMThroatHugs
And the price of the shares is irrelevant to the bussiness running.
mebejedi
The hedge fund borrowed and sold the stocks, and eventually has to buy them back. Plan A was that the stock's value would go down, and
mebejedi
they'd be cheaper to buy back, and hedge fund keeps the difference. BUT... If stock goes up, now they have to buy it back at higher price,
mebejedi
which means they're losing money.
Katusa
The Hedge funds made a huge bet that the price of game stop would go down. In fact the expected it to go to zero. This would have made them
Katusa
A lot of money. Now, the price is going up and they have to cover the difference. As an example the price was $30. They bet that it would
Katusa
go down so they shorted it. If it had gone to say 10$ they would have made a profit of 20$ for every share. Instead the price is now $200
Katusa
So they are going to lose $170 for every share. The problem with shorts is that yes you can make money but, the potential lose is infinite
Katusa
And depends on when you close your position. They could continue to hold but, there's rules about how much money they have to have on
MattOEP
Former GameStop employee, the company is trash but this is funny
PastaJesus
Good post OP, but a short squeeze didn't cause the 2008 market crash. Overvalued loan bundles, with high default rates were rrsponsible
MalOQ
Thank you!
cantspellmanslaughterwithoutlaughter
MBS (not the evil reporter murdering kind).
ThisGuyPostingThings
It's like someone watched The Big Short and misunderstood who was behind the collapse - they just saw it coming and bet it would.
BDSMThroatHugs
They done the same with the march crash although it was expecting the bubble to burst but few took profits when they could
FjordFiskursson
For some reason shorting is a common scapegoat when people don't like the stock market results, and not only for the 2008 crash.
PastaJesus
I think people find the simplified idea of making money off others loss to be distasteful. Something bad happened? Blame the bad thing
canhastruth
Right, I hedge a different way. A lot of the stock today is over valued I expect a crash soon so I have some money in small cap and in bonds
jbptrnd
The funny thing is effective shorting often helps keep markets more efficient and makes it harder for bubbles to form.
tagyoureit
This. These guys just found a bad headgefund. Im okay with shorting as long as its done properly.
skhenry1101
This has being doing the rounds at work SEC can't do anything because basically this is shorted to stuiped levels is public information /1
skhenry1101
And everyone jumping in on that is perfectly legitimate and the entire conversation is taking place publicly in a uncoordinated manner /2
skhenry1101
The SEC can't even make a rule banning that because they news sites that talk about the market would also have to stop along with mags etc/3
skhenry1101
What this has done is simply shown that stock market value is mostly bullshit and a gaint casino the fallout from that will be interesting
dogestyle
it happened before (in 2008 IIRC) and it'll happen again, sadly
tortfeasor
There could be pump and dump liability if any of these Redditors made a false or misleading statements in connection with these purchases.
tortfeasor
And "misleading" is a broad enough category to run a truck through. I hope everyone on the Wallstreetbets forum was careful with their posts
tortfeasor
Don't get me wrong, I wish these guys luck because no one likes short sellers; but I fear this is getting too much scrutiny from regulators.
skhenry1101
Sadly it's nothing more that what news casters and newsletters do and many websites. If sec go after wallstreet bets all those sites
skhenry1101
Shows and newsletters instantly need to stop too sec needs to be careful not to trash the creditability of the stock market /2
skhenry1101
By playing favourites and I don't think they will they mostly shrug and tell them that's the risk of shorting
amishjosh
Remember, the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent
wobblecopterrrr
Good post, I have been too lazy to figure out what was going on with this mess +1
HaberdasherInGold
Where's Margo Robbie when you need her?
UnremarkablyInteresting
So say you have 24 bananas and you loan 15 to Johnny, this kills the crab.
FunkiePieBandit
I remember learning this at school!
SciencePetsComputers
basically they sold a bunch of stock that they either had loaned or bought with investors money on the assumption the stock price would 1/2
SciencePetsComputers
fall in the near future and they could buy more stock after that and make a profit as it bounces back. Reddit said no. 2/2
SirPhobosKnightofMarsBeaterofAss
The sold stock they didn't have, hoping that it would go down, eventually, if the company crashes they have to buy it back, if it went down+
SirPhobosKnightofMarsBeaterofAss
The would buy it back for less then they paid for it, if it goes up like in this case they need to pay more to cover the gain. So with that+
SirPhobosKnightofMarsBeaterofAss
A lot of people have been buying the stock at low price causing it to go up and all the huge hedge funds that short sold are getting screwed
IHopeMyKidsDontSeeThis
Don't worry about the billionaire hedge fund managers - they still get paid. It's their investors who lose money.
cPol
Tootsie Roll!?!?
ThingsAndStuffAndStuffAndThings
“It looks like a solid investment to me”
SunAnvil
sweethome
My reaction as well lol
Thirds
Honest question right not though - once this squeeze is over - why can't another hedge fund profit MASSIVLY on shorting.
CompressedInfo
They will. Inspired goofball amateurs can outmaneuver large institutions in the short term, but not the long-term
PastaJesus
They absolutely can, and probably are
jbptrnd
They 100% will. This stock will probably fall back to earth once the stonk memelords’ call options expire
therealSKYKING
No one on WSB has call options (I mean, maybe some do), everyone is holding shares until they reach $1000.
jbptrnd
Nope, r/DeepFuckingValue’s entire position is call options. Most users acct screenshots and posts showing/pumping call options.
jbptrnd
Not to say people aren’t holding shares, a lot are, but a lot aren’t. GME call volume over last month shows this clearly.
jbptrnd
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l6ekdz/gme_yolo_update_jan_27_2021_guess_i_need_102/
Nintura1182
so hedgefund guys all talking together is legal and not insider trading, but they try to claim a bunch of redditors is?
ShadisticMelon
Man stocks are a headache to follow.
awkwardbeautiful
I’m all for it until the idea that taxpayers have to bail out these hedge funds when they ultimately fail.
Chromentor
There is always more money for war and bailouts.
WoopDeFrickenDoo
I'm still trying to understand what this bullcrap means
awkwardbeautiful
I don’t really get it either
CGWN
Hedge fund bets that GameStop stock will go down. Reddit board buys up GameStop stock, skyrocketing the price. Hedge fund loses money.
CGWN
Currently Reddit board is drunk with power and shadowy money from other hedge funds and Elon Musk fans, wondering if they can recreate this
CGWN
with another stock (currently AMC theaters seems to be the next attempt), without realizing the odds are much longer on that front.
jbptrnd
None of these funds are even a fraction of the size requiring a bailout, they’re tiny relative to the market. They’ll fail, nobody will care
otiumCatulli
They won't bail out the hedge fund, it's the companies with their pensions invested in the hedge fund which might be the problem, I think
BDSMThroatHugs
If they're smart they've already sold although in Australia pension plans do short.
jbptrnd
I think what’s being referred to is pension plans are some of the investors in the hedge fund, so the fund is losing the pensions’ money
zaphodbeebrox
“He He He I’m sticking it to the man.” A day later...”Shit what happened to my retirement fund?!”
Attackchopperfetish
We eventually will hold government office that doesnt Bail out corporate shit heads
sticksosteel
Should I be worried about my retirement and pension if this sort of thing happens a lot?
NoneOfThemKnew
Institutional investors don't tend to play the type of stupid games that Melvin Capital does.
TheOldSchoolisBack
No. If your employer is funding the pension plan properly and managing it as it should, individual stocks are just background noise.
catsofat
I think retirement funds are a lot more cautious & reflect the whole market- like they took a dive last March but have recovered sort of-
catsofat
where this is the volatile part of the market, where retirement $ shouldn't be. I'm by no means an expert though, just someone who hopes to
catsofat
someday retire & not have to eat dogfood.
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
But that's not entirely the case. You're right that retirement funds should be pretty risk averse and avoid known areas of volatility (at 1/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
"non-risky" sectors. As entertaining as it might be to watch some hedge funds take hits, this certainly has the potential to cause 4/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
least more than the average investor), but traditionally that covers things like oil exploration or start-up pharma companies or tech 2/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
companies. AMC and Gamestop, while certainly not particularly stable holdings, would certainly fall squarely within the traditionally 3/
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
significant contagion and hurt "safe" portfolios. 5/5
catsofat
My retirement is a mutual fund which I'd been told was like a mix of 100's of things. I get that a tbsp of spice can change a whole pot of
IonceateahouseandnowIshitbricks
Compliance person here: this social experiment is heavily being followed by the SEC. Bet on reprecussions & possible reg from the fallout.
IonceateahouseandnowIshitbricks
This is not trad pump & dump but could be compared to an advanced form of stock promotion. This shit happens all this time with small stuff.
IonceateahouseandnowIshitbricks
It is funny to watch nothing go to something but honestly, whats next? Hyping Dotcom bullshit defuncts?
IonceateahouseandnowIshitbricks
I should mention, not a fan of hedge funds. Understand their importance but this honestly seemed like a solid bet against GME.
IonceateahouseandnowIshitbricks
Can you imagine some quant sitting in an office wondering why this has not collapsed?
CPTNNemo
I don't think people realize what will follow and I bet that there will be many dissapointed and sad people after this is done
highfiveskittens
“The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.”
lysosomesarethewastemanagementsystemsofthecell
Stonks
eckygaz
Bames Nond is having a stronk. Call the bondulance.
IAmAngry
so nice you can tweet "stonks" after you boght the stok.. and sell it fast before it will go to it's real value price..
lysosomesarethewastemanagementsystemsofthecell
????
k4FoodSmasher
Oh now I understand.
HawkmanXLII
BernieSandersMittens
Gamestonk - elongated musket or something.
Doomgriever
QuackWok
Yeah... is there like a green online class I could take on this shit? I'm 34 and clueless about trading
QuackWok
Free* not green
lysosomesarethewastemanagementsystemsofthecell
Khan academy has some stuff. Haven’t tried their stock market stuff but their math and science stuff is usually pretty ok
qualityraindeer
Stonkonomics
trikeosirius
hetriedtokillmewithaforklift
And now, since the magic line is going down, Stanks
lysosomesarethewastemanagementsystemsofthecell
????
madbydesign
The Big Short Pt. 2.
SunshineBakerman
Rise of the Memelords
Kittiesandfarts
This!
BlackIC
There is a car. I borrow it and sell it. Then I do that again. I now owe two cars but there is one car. I am proper fucked.
Aislar
thank you, this helped me out a lot, i appreciate it!
lotrmith
My question is: WHO DID THEY BORROW FROM?
b1candy2
People always ask 'if every country is in debt, who are they in debt to?' and you have to explain things like this
martymonster
I always assume China
cptcr
I buy 10 cars just like the one you have that nobody else wanted. How do I sell them?
Acronymicon
These banks are like kids getting their first credit card, then getting a second to pay off the first. Both at 35% interest rate
ILikeFugu
That's this in a nutshell, except that the dude you sold it to now holds you hostage for all your money.
EsquivAlien
I know! I'll borrow it a third time to pay off the second
TryingToMakeaRedVsBlueReferenceAllTheTime
Now that is a wallstreetbets play!
BlackIC
Stonks!
qualityraindeer
Stonkonomics.
mustardburp
It seems to me, a layman, that pretty much ALL of the problems with the stock market are self created, that all the increasingly intricate..
mustardburp
...and convoluted ways to engineer finances to produce more and more ways to transfer money seems inherently unstable. Like, so remarkably..
mustardburp
...unstable that one would have to be a legit moron not to see that crashes (not just downturns) are required for this system to work...
mustardburp
...and that the game plan is which and how many rats can get off the sinking ship first instead of being a economic pillar/foundation.
PoorSucker
What if I told you that there is no car
desl14
download a car!
somethingawesomeandgreat
And 3D print
lotrmith
You wouldn't... download a car.
ZombieZooZombieZoo
Sorry if a dumb question, but how do you sell something that is borrowed? Or is like I take out a loan on X, then sell X, but still owe 1/
NotLuckyDucky
I leased a 2016 RAV4 when I ended contract and bought a 2018 Corolla it added 6000$ to what I owe. So I borrowed $25000 for it but ...
NotLuckyDucky
...cars worth is $13000 after driving off lot. When I traded for 2020 I now had a loan for $29000 on a car that sells for $19000 and after..
NotLuckyDucky
..driving off the lot is only worth 12000 So in other words I fucked myself by borrowing money to buy a car and its value half of what I owe
latenightboomom
Thank you!
martymonster
I has the same question: How do you 'borrow' a stock?
TRDirty
Easy. For profit
StudlyMadHatter
Conceptually, it’s exactly what you think. You find someone willing to “loan” you the stock for a while, and while you’re borrowing it you
StudlyMadHatter
sell it, then buy it back (hopefully at a lower price, obviously not always) before returning it to the person who loaned it to you
WinstonSmith101
How does the loaner make money if a stock market trading company is going. To trash the value of what they borrow?
rollingontherio
It’s like Kyle pays Criag a fee to borrow his car. While Kyle is borrowing it, he sells it to Simon for the current price of $10k. He is /1
rollingontherio
Betting that the price of the car will drop over the next few weeks and he will buy it for the née rate of $5k. But Kyle is screwed /2
rollingontherio
Because the price for the same car is higher. So now he has to find someone else to buy it from at the new rate of $15k to give it back /3
rollingontherio
To Craig on time. Now he’s out $15k plus the fees to Craig.
ZombieZooZombieZoo
On it?
beretrouge
Way I understood: you borrow friend's car worth 10$ and pay him 1$ with promise to give car back in 3 months. You sell car 10$ now and plan
beretrouge
On buying it back in 3 months, hoping car is worth less. If you buy it back for 5$, you win (10-1-5=4 extra money). If value of car goes up
beretrouge
To say 300$, you're screwed because you -have- to buy it to give back to your friend
NickRivieraMD
levrij
PrincessPicklebricks
Hej funs
nomoremonkeys
It wasn't an organized attack on anyone. The idiot hedge funds thought themselves invincible, over sold to a tune of 138% and got called out
apostlepk
...and they talked smack on a product that "meme-lords" have a lot of find memories over. Never engage the internet mob.
davdeMoonQueen
Fucked around, found out?
nomoremonkeys
Retail investors won by playing by the rules and the Wall St Firms are shitting their pants now because we're realizing we don't need them.
reverendmalerik
I barely understand what it going on but am very curious. What did we need them (supposedly) previously? I am a bit lost but like drama.
IupvoteAussies
They think they can consistently outperform the market, me trading on my own, and a monkey randomly picking stocks, which is untrue
PieMasterOfTheRealm
I think we needed them just because....well.... apparently we don't. It's just a case of riches getting riches at the expense of us
Eramik
I'll try my pleb answer. You need an electrician for proper installs. Wall St saw themselves as "the guys" for "proper stock trading".
apneax3n0n
fund with lots of money wants to buy all gs actions at any price. redditors found it and start buying too. so price increases. fund has to_>
apneax3n0n
buy all the actions or they fail so they keep on buying at any price. so price increases. and so on over and over till price is too high
PballQhead
TBH it depends on how much time and effort you wanna put into it. If you want a second, potentially full-time job, that can be time >
PballQhead
sensitive down to the minute, you don't need a hedge fund/firm/acct. manager. If you want to put away some money, have it be relatively >
PballQhead
safe, maybe grow a little, and use it to help with retirement, and will pay 1% to not DIY, then you may want a guy.
TheOldSchoolisBack
Wait a week before you declare victory for retail investors. Just because the hedge funds lost doesn’t mean the retail investors won’t also.
TheOldSchoolisBack
Better way to look at it is that the little guys paid to make the hedge fund lose. A few at the beginning made big bucks, but most will lose
imgjim
How can they see when Melvin's options expire so they know this will work?
IHonestlyHaveNoIdeaWhatToNameMyself
They should be held liable for their negligence with investors funds, ridiculous they can call themselves a ‘HEDGE’ fund when they are so 1/
TheOldSchoolisBack
This is why hedge funds are limited in who they can market too. Their investors get no pity or recompense. They knew who they invested with.
IHonestlyHaveNoIdeaWhatToNameMyself
Laughably overexposed to a single position.
UserWithoutUsername
Their business is that they can do that, lose whatever, and they will be bailed by the government. They are great at it
spacemarine18000
Yep, they took what is an incredibly risky investment as the potential for loss is infinite and lost. If I did that no helps coming my way.
spacemarine18000
P2 it's in infinite potential for loss because the more the stock goes up the more they lose. Compared to normal buying where you can only
spacemarine18000
P3 lose what you put in
PballQhead
I told my portfolio manager if he ever shorted anything, I would hunt him down and eat his tenderloin in lieu of my normal Xmas venison.
MoepsDump
*unless you are Too Big To Fail™
HeroThatWasNeeded
Oh that hurts...
dirkmcdirk
Will this trend to "screw" hedge funds continue? Have they (the unorganized people on reddit) chosen another shorted company.
MrOsmo
The post says maybe amc
CGWN
AMC will almost certainly be a less effective run against a much lower ratio of shorts.
dirkmcdirk
Ok, my next question would be: Did these people on reddit who pushed this stock value up, make money doing this?
nomoremonkeys
The only reason the stock is going up is because the hedge funds need to cover their shorts. As in buy the stock to limit their loss.
nomoremonkeys
In doing so, they make the stock rise. Naked shorts are dangerous. Investopedia is a great place to start if this interests you.
Ulthirm
Theres a dude who started the yolo who is currently within a position to make millions. The thing is, the second he drops, the whole game
Ulthirm
collapses.
CGWN
Yes, those that have bailed already made solid to substantial amounts of money.
PictureArchiver
The hedge funds went by the conviction that what they do is inscrutable to most other people and that nobody on Main Street would have 1
PictureArchiver
the ability to do something like this, or even have the wherewithal to actually think there’s anything to be done at all. Then they made 2
PictureArchiver
the massive mistake to short 140% of existing shares, making themselves incredibly vulnerable. So long as $GME goes down they’re doing 3
PictureArchiver
just fine. When it goes up, and they had no reason to believe that it would, they’re in big trouble. OP mentions 192 as the price where 4
PictureArchiver
Melvin tanks. Pre-market is 233 at the time of writing. If they open like this Melvin is fucked. OP asks a question about legality, I 5
EsquivAlien
Exactly! Also why this isn't illegal, and why there isnt anything the SEC can do despite incredible pressure "do something about it"
attofreak
They will definitely do something about it....by further restricting leverage offered to retail traders and raising initial deposit.
Lynkfox
It's just collective buying. It's the same idea as a hedgefund just decentralized over social media. Lol. I love it
urgotobekiddingme
"Do something while its affecting me but pls stay out and sleep when i fuck over others!" The rich with any institution of justice.
Leaps
Pretty sure it IS illegal to short a stock for more shares than are outstanding. Unfortunately the SEC has been gutted and doesn't enforce.
shakefu
Remember the rules are made up. The SEC could just halt trading on $GME to “investigate” and the Reddit momentum would evaporate.
anengineerandacat
They did halt it for a bit, the stock got short circuited in the NYSE
EchoWhiskyBravo
SEC doesn’t halt trading. Stock exchange does.
jdwagBugVillain
Pretty sure the government can order a halt. Officially or unofficially. They've done so before.
WolfRexV3
If they don't do the halt, we should hemorrhage other hedge funds to make them go bankrupt and prevent those hedges from further lobbying
Attackchopperfetish
Let's do this!!!
MrLoveCock
WolfRexV3
We fight money with money
CannabalisticSpaceRapArtist
Except the obvious, the gov. May just use our tax dollars to 'bailout' the hedge funds somehow.. some Trumpian Logic.. ..may(tm)
Taishosama
You mean, we, the people had power all along! Gaaaassspppp!
PballQhead
Wishful...one fund got really greedy and stupid and left a single, critical attack surface completely open; that will not happen again.
crazyspelling
Ha!
IupvoteAussies
They do get very cocky very quickly, so it'll probably happen again, it'll just take a bit
gunnexx
Just like financial crisis wouldn't happen again after 2008...no 2012....no wait 2020etcetc
Icantthinkofacleverusernameeither
So...like are all those ppl that bought gm gonna make the monies
IWishIHadABetterNickName
Why would it be illegal to buy stock and share the info with your community?
IWishIHadABetterNickName
The short though yeah
PballQhead
Sharing the info is one thing, saying "if we all do x and y we can manipulate the market" is...well, market manipulation. Moral, but illegal
IWishIHadABetterNickName
That's exactly what wall street and big player are always doing. See https://twitter.com/toxic/status/1353890766800621569?s=19
PballQhead
Morally, absolutely. Legally, grey. Aside, I like how that thread admits that "The concept of 'Screw the hedge fund vampires who exist only>
AvatarTommyBee
But does anyone know when their contract is due? .. how long you have to keep up the show?
zebrains
Shorting a stock is just a concept. Its not illegal because you could do just what reddit is doing to force these shorts to margin call.
xj4low
Investments are not always 100% guarantee. Just in this case, the loss is hitting the 1%.
Katusa
What part of this should be illegal?
derel1cte
Naked short selling is illegal. You cannot short more shares than can be borrowed.
Eramik
The part the hedge fund did
Lynkfox
Honestly, given this is the same thing that happened during the Housing crash, it's them short selling thst should be illegal
Katusa
Or at least limit the number of stocks that can be in a short position.
AvatarTommyBee
Though I think it's impossible .. you can buy it with a de-facto-future of re-sell. Sell it freely afterwards, and buy it freely in due time
Phraxonomy
They didn’t own the stocks they sold, they borrowed them for a fee. Meaning they could gamble for more than 100% of all stocks.
Katusa
The other problem is just by putting out a short they are manipulating the market. Which is one of the reasons that the WSB group feel
Katusa
vindicated.
KeepYourTangoAndYourFoxtrot
The part where poor people are playing with rich peoples' money. That's just not fair!! /sarc
Lynkfox
The part where avg people get to hold it to the rich. Lol
Darkklown14
Market manipulation on a stock. It’s clear from Reddit you have a market manipulator and an intent to pump up the stock
Katusa
Free speech. There is no market manipulation on reddits side. It's the hedge funds that manipulated.
Darkklown14
How is there not market manipulation?
SilverHornet
What Melvin do is manipulation though. Hedge funds can and have caused businesses to fail just so they can short stock cheaper
EggsBenny
Agree with f'ed up things hedge funds have done. But Melvin made a qualified read on GME in this case and redditors just want to f it up
ThePunishersVengefulBrother
I believe Ligand is on that list as a political vendetta.
PballQhead
Morally, absolutely, but they aren't openly plotting (I can't even say conspiring) it on a public forum. Shorting should be banned tho.
greentights
Looks sadly at toys r us and Sears
catherinecc
The SEC's role isn't to prevent sophisticated investors from making stupid decisions. This isn't against the law because it's so stupid.
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
scrumdiddlyumptiousness
I feel like this is a more effective protest than showing up with signs in the street.
windedsloth
"Damn peasants getting uppity again. Why cant they just be happy with our scraps."
apeRunner
Yup.
Heavenissize17socks
Hedgefund operators exploit the system. Gamers are like "hold my Nvidia Quadro".
Q269
You are correct, protests in the streets doesn't affect their lives; this might
TheFishFace
A protest against what exactly? This might cause a response but it won't be to end poverty, reform the police or anything like that.
andyskeels
Fucking them with their own cactus!
attofreak
It also leads to a more targeted culling: hedge funds will take these examples to SEC and "pressure" them to shut down retail traders
scrumdiddlyumptiousness
Oh, I'm sure that's exactly what will happen, but the idea of finding a way way screw with them financially will cause something to happen.
scrumdiddlyumptiousness
What happens is a gamble, but the power is in the hands of the people. We just have to remember it.
Cranbananarama
It hits them where it hurts. Their wallets.
xj4low
This will end up as a case study in a textbook in the future. Expect laws to change because those hurt can lobby for change.
DrKriegersClone
Which means even if it's unclear whether doing it to the first hedge fund was illegal, it's damn well going to be made illegal before it 1/
DrKriegersClone
2/ happens to another. A protest tactic that actually works won't be allowed to stay legal.
bravecatgaming
It will be classified as some sort of terrorism or some shit
thatscool22
They’d have to make short selling stocks illegal.
DrKriegersClone
Not necessarily. Could legislate that using social media to coordinate actions like this counts as pump and dump manipulation.
icer190
Which would almost completely be thrown out in court as a violation of the first, as it would be a government regulation of speech.
greentights
And they would have to get rid of every show and newsletter that talks about stocks they recommend. Radio makes $of this. Not gonna let goez
xj4low
I know little about how this all works, but I am enjoying the finance channels freaking out about it saying this isn't how it should work!
digitist
Dismantle the corporatocracy, their way! For fun and profit.
thegringointhenorth
13 billion dollars of (probably completely legal) financial vandalism without hurting any locals or small businesses, too. Right on.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
Now watch as Wall St aggressively lobbies to restrict online brokers, locking hundreds of times that amount out of the market.
thegringointhenorth
The system relies on exploiting and profiting off those people making the wrong decisions. Cut retail investors out and the money stops.
MyRespectableAlterEgo
I've got mixed feelings on this: I feel like shutting out retail investors just consolidates the power of the big brokers, who already (1)
MyRespectableAlterEgo
have too much power. "Publicly Traded" should mean "Publicly Traded", but the trading platforms should carry some responsibility to (2)
AngryCandyKing
Watch the SEC throw some crazy new set of regulations trying to prevent this from happening
240zac
The only way to appear on their radar is to hurt their wallet
BurberryBlessings
Grab em by the wallet.
somethingstupidandclever
This is exactly what i tried to inspire during the occupy wall street. Good for them.
BaklavaMatatas
True change only comes when the top level is being financially hurt, as sad as it is.
scrumdiddlyumptiousness
The grasshoppers need to be reminded that the ants outnumber them.
greenespeak88
This is what I teach in my history class.
BaklavaMatatas
I love you! History was always my favourite subject and I had great teachers
Lots43
Quite possibly, but signs in the streets piss off the man. SO MUCH.
HandoB4Javert
Neat
TRDirty
I wont complain. Saw this coming last week and bought a shitload of $5 AMC calls. I'm up 1000%
CommanderShitFace
Gotta grab em by the coin purse and squeeze so they know you're there and mean real business.
Zamm005
Except that you have to wait for this incredibly weird situation to arise, then count on thousands of people being genuine... so no!
Zamm005
If the hedge fund managers had invested sensibly, this couldn’t have happened. They essentially set their own houses ablaze knowing the
Zamm005
fire brigade would be there on time... but reddit blocked the fire truck!
iliketotravelandstuff
It's also more expensive if it the stock snaps back and the trolls lose their money
jbptrnd
US equity market today is $44 trillion; $13 billion is 0.03%! This will hurt only a couple individuals at those specific funds, that’s it.
DianNaoChong
It's not because they print more stock and dump thier own shares and still profit
ventikona
InTangier
You can and should have both. Protesting Wall St. is important to signal politicians willing to fight them they will have support.
Samja192
Hit em where it hurts, as they say
SleepyGoose
It hits them where it hurst most... In the wallet
IAmAngry
Remember Banksy shreded his painting? It got sold even higher after that : this is all you need to know about kids doing revolution
EmptyHouseBurglar
Why not both
idontknowmaybeno
ReaperCDN
It wont be. I'd bet theyll find a way to weasel out of this somehow instead of paying out those stocks. The govt will bail them out /1
TheOldSchoolisBack
No, they won’t. Investment funds go bust all the time. A bad bet on GameStop isn’t going to cause a bailout.
ReaperCDN
rather than tying up the court systems with literally thousands of cases for this alone. 2/2
christooss
While yes, you do need money to make these kind of protests working.
manymadmasks
Sadly “money talks” isn’t just a passé phrase.Protests, petitions, Twitter mobs, etc are rarely successful till it hits someone bottom line
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
WHAT'S IT GONNA TAKE TO STOP THE WAGONS?! CAN WE DO IT?!
greenespeak88
This is the main lesson in my middle school history class.
DaveTBull
If you want to change the world, use money, if you want to change a culture, use twitter
scrumdiddlyumptiousness
Capitalism. Vote with your pocketbook.
Lynkfox
The market corrects! ?
Pooprocketpower
Most of our pocketbooks are too small to make a difference, even collectively. We have to hit them in THEIR pocketbooks
Saajix
No thats not capitalism thats every where greed exists or if someone is desperate for a buck. Its cold hard greed. Its everywhere.
GadenKerensky
What about blood?
aPokal
Your body is the first property you gain.
BaklavaMatatas
Reminder that you can vote every day by carefully choosing the products you buy and services you use.
lljkstonefish
unless of course every provider of a given essential product is equally undesirable, which happens now and then.
1deejay
ISPs
MadDucks
Live in post hurricane Louisiana. We have food trucks where restaurants are waiting to be rebuilt. It's important to support them.
Saajix
False. Choice is a mere illusion. You have 5 brands of milk of various price. All owned by one guy using proxies.
BaklavaMatatas
Uhm no you can buy milk directly from farms where I live. We have lots of small businesses in my country. Not everyone is American
IupvoteAussies
With the complexity of supply chains, it's pretty impossible to figure out if your clothes are ethical unless you know who wove them
Saajix
Easy answer look at the tag if its woven from a blend its a sin.
BaklavaMatatas
Buy small buy local
Pooprocketpower
Protests are effective when they cause financial pain, like strikes, but we have police to shut those down with overwhelming violence
MoonfredBaroness
Protests are the most ineffective way of demonstration, especially in this system. If they were helpful we wouldn't be having the same 1/2
MoonfredBaroness
Issues of 600 years ago 2/2
Pooprocketpower
Depends on the type of protest. Politely waving signs? 99% useless.
MoonfredBaroness
Rioting and looting 100% useless
Blud4BludGod
I don't have enough money to engage in this kind of protest (seriously, buying one (1) share of GME right now would put me behind on...
Blud4BludGod
...expenses). But from one of the angry people with signs, I really appreciate what these Redditors are doing here.
ChrisWsrn
It is dumb to buy in now (That is how it hurts hedge funds). The people who did this bought in at $2-$4.
scrumdiddlyumptiousness
It wouldn't be a smart thing to do unless you're in a position to lose. I hope everyone involved realized that going in.
Lionskull
put aside money i'm willing to lose, and only invested half of that into GME. holding for that squeeze tomorrow.
scrumdiddlyumptiousness
Godspeed
GreenMed
Fuck yeah we do. It is part of wsb culture. It's a reason why it is call Wallstreetbets and not investments.
scrumdiddlyumptiousness
Well good on you then.