norwegiansilverfox
125836
1601
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Having played and enjoyed Far Cry 5, I kept thinking: A religious cult having total control over a large area of land and quite a number of people, forming militias and luring people into their ranks, creating their own society with a charismatic leader convincing them to kill and be killed for him – all of this inside the USA – surely not? This couldn’t happen, right?
But how far fetched is it?
Ubisoft didn’t pull this out of thin air. Joseph Seed and Project Eden’s Gate is inspired by several real life historical figures. Here’s two very obvious ones.
Joseph Smith Jr. (1805-1844)
First off, Joseph Seed shares name with the charismatic leader of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, an obvious nod to Joseph Smith. Smith was also in his mid-twenties when he founded his church in 1830, so I think Seed and he are roughly the same age. And the similarities go on:
-They both start a religious following centered around themselves as a person.
-They both claim to be spokespersons for God, and that their words have God’s authority.
-They both used their siblings as religious authorities, Seed with John, Jacob and Faith, Smith with his brother Hyrum.
-They both add to/replace the Bible as scripture, Smith with The Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrines and Covenants, Seed with his own “Book of Joseph”. (I found the scene where a Bible is replaced with the Book of Joseph when someone is about to be sworn in to be very telling.) Ubisoft has released a physical version of the Book of Joseph, and while I haven’t read it, the layout of it is clearly based on the classic Book of Mormon look.
-They both set up communities/societies. Seed in Hope County, of course, and Smith in Nauvoo, Illinois – and his successor Brigham Young in Salt Lake City, Utah.
-They both had their own militia. Joseph Smith organized his “Nauvoo Legion”, which he himself was in charge of, to protect the land they had settled. At a time when the entire US Army numbered about 8500 troops, the Nauvoo Legion was 2500 men strong. Joseph Smith and the Nauvoo Legion clearly was a force to be reckoned with.
When Smith declared martial law and used his legion to destroy a printing press that was used to defame him, he was arrested along with his brother Hyrum. The prison they were kept in was stormed by a mob, and the brothers were killed.
I’ve often wondered: Had Smith not been killed, how far could he have gone? Could he have created his very own country or state in North America, separate from the Union, where he ruled? Could he have run for president? When compared to Joseph Smith, the scenario with the Peggies in Hope County doesn’t seem so far off.
One huge difference between Seed and Smith is of course that Smith lived in a time when there was still much land up for grabs. Smith lived in the wild west. The United States as we know it today, was not yet consolidated. It was a time of “manifest destiny”, of expansion westwards and setting up land for yourself. It was also not a time of the communication and infrastructure that Seed lives in. And, honestly, I thought the level of infrastructure the Peggies had at their disposal without the government intervening was ridiculous.
But could something like this happen in this day and age? I’m so glad you asked. Let’s take a look at Jim Jones…
Born in Indiana in the 1930s, he was a pastor who founded the cult The People’s Temple in the 1950s. The People’s Temple was a communist movement, and claiming that he wanted to set up a settlement that was safe from the threat of nuclear war, a place in Guyana, South America, was set up. Jones mixed communism, religion and the fear of nuclear war into a dangerous cocktail.
In 1974 a settlement was started by Jones and his followers, deep in the jungles of Guyana. It was an agricultural project, called “The Peoples Temple Agricultural Project”, and the likeness to Far Cry 5’s “Project Eden’s Gate” is obvious. The settlement was called informally called Jonestown, and just shy of a thousand people moved there.
Meanwhile, Jones came under the scrutiny of the media. Relatives and authorities were concerned about the wellbeing of the members – as well as the obvious unpopularity of communism amongst American authorities.
A group of officials and reporters travelled to Jonestown in November 1978. While there, some of the members of The Temple told the officials they wanted to defect and return to the US with them. As the group was set to leave by plane, a group of the Temple's Red Brigade security squad attacked the plane before it took off, killing and wounding several of both the original group and the defectors.
That evening Jim Jones assembled his flock, and telling them that Jonestown now would be dismantled by the authorities and that their children would be brought up to be fascists, he made them commit “revolutionary suicide” by drinking a cyanide-poisoned beverage. Over 900 persons died there, Jim Jones himself was found dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to his head.
Part of the speech Jones made that night was recorded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkookcrAnSE
There are of course several similarities to Jim Jones and Joseph Seed. Jones was yet another charismatic leader bending people to do his will. This time, however, in our modern times.
-Both built up communities around themselves, sealed off from the rest of the world.
-Both had their own militia, making people shoot and kill innocent people.
-Both binding people so much to their own person that they literally decided whether their disciples lived or died.
Anyhoo. These are two prime examples of cultism from our own times and history that I think demonstrates that Far Cry 5’s scenario isn’t all that crazy. There are other examples, sadly, like the Waco siege in 1993 and the Tokyo subway attacks in 1995. Look it up.
Story/ending aside (no spoilers in comments, people, not everyone has finished the game yet), I found the premise to be thought provoking and interesting. I thought Ubisoft did a good job with this game, and I recommend it.
TL;DR: The Far Cry 5 scenario isn’t that far fetched, and is very much inspired by real events.
Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo_Legion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo,_Illinois
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_City
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
Book of Joseph physical copy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDSgqzT7z84
The game Far Cry 5, obv…
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FP edit: I'm just glad you guys took time to read and upvote, it took a bit of time (and my mad MS Paint skillz) to put this post together. Thanks a lot!
Also, I love reading all your comments on this, both on the game and on secterism. Thanks again :)
savageworld
Bonus points for noticing the communist elements in Jim Jones' cult. I meet a lot of people describe him as a 'right wing evangelist'.
rinrenee
I recommend Wild Wild Country on Netflix, you’ll see how a cult took over American soil in more modern times.
Khabi715
Also, one of the people killed by Jones' men at the airport was Congressman Leo Ryan, the only US Congressman assassinated in office
PixyStyk
Had to do a class presentation on Jonestown in HS, dressed like Jim Jones and brought Kool-Aid for the class... I got in trouble...
norwegiansilverfox
XD
sorrycannotbraintoday
Worst part about Jonestown is some of the people were forced to drink the poison at gunpoint or were shot while attempting to flee
norwegiansilverfox
Yeah. That whole thing is just all kinds of sad :-/
Steelhart
I watched the first ten or so minutes of FC5 and damn... they nail the “lets get the fuck outta here” vibe
SenatorPineapple
After I killed his entire family, I felt bad. Not enough to stop me from trying to kill him though. He will die
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norwegiansilverfox
Now, what did I say about spoilers in my post? Please, be a gentleman/gentlewoman/gentleattackhelicopter and delete this comment :)
hertz18360
I've listened to the tape Jim Jones left; and i can tell you with certainty that even his photo scares the living hell out of me.
norwegiansilverfox
I feel you.
MahonriMoriancumer
As a former member of the LDS church, you've got Smith's death and the militia wrong. The militia existed, but it's primary purpose was 1/
MahonriMoriancumer
To aid in the Mexican American war (which they never were able to do). Secondarily it's true they were protecting themselves, but not in 2/
MahonriMoriancumer
an aggressive way. In MO they were being killed so needed defenses. Also the reason for arrest is false. Smith never used the militia in 3/
MahonriMoriancumer
The way you said. He also went to carthage willingly, knowing he would die there. Even though I'm not a member any more, I still don't 4/
MahonriMoriancumer
Like seeing the history misrepresented. Smith may have similarities, but he wasn't a fanatical cultist. Still, interesting read. 5/5
norwegiansilverfox
Thanks for your input. The only offensive use of the militia I mentioned was with the printing press. I believe that's accurate.
hockeyham
Too soon?
magnvsm
Nice read
CyborgScribe
Cult leader glasses
roro1331
The Brian Jonestown Massacre is one of my favorite bands
KevinAtWorkDoingNothing
Last Podcast on the Left did a good 5 part series on people's temple. They've also covered Waco and Aum Shinrikio (cult behind Tokyo attack)
iloveboobiesofallshapes
I listened to that, real good
KevinAtWorkDoingNothing
Megustalations.
MissMockingbird
Parcast has a good show called Cults, two episodes per with one focusing on the person who started it and then what happened
CaptDoombeard
Hail Yourself!
rookiefdb
megustalations
ichab0d
Hail me.
BaphometBarista
Hail Satan!
420ismycakeday
.
outtathiswhirld
Check please!
ExtremeTrashPanda
Hail Satan
halfax7
Poor Mr. Muggs
Idkimadeanaccountjustforthis
What was the name of the pod cast?
CaptDoombeard
Last Podcast on the Left. The current run is on Rasputin but there are a lot of past episodes and they are all worth a listen.
halfax7
Listen to The last Podcast on the Left. They did a 5 part, 2hrs + episodes on Jonestown. Poor poor Mr. Muggs.
RepostFromLastWeek
I was under the impression Faith and co. weren't literal siblings. Like I remember Faith saying in one her monologues that she was a /1
GodofCats
They aren't, I think Joseph said she wasn't even the first Faith but was his favorite one or something like that.
RepostFromLastWeek
drug addict who was saved from the streets by Seed. /2
weekend
I just finished today, and found several letters from worried family members to at least 3 different Faiths. Last one in "The Angel's Grave"
norwegiansilverfox
I also thought of that, but thought she very well could be their sister all the same.
Stankpail
There's a mention in a few places that Seed has gone through at least two other Faiths, one named Selena and one with dark hair.
norwegiansilverfox
Oh. Didn't catch that. Thanks.
Stankpail
There's one recording at the church in Faith's zone, the other in a house, and a letter somewhere.
AluminumCucumbers
I called it Mormon Hunter World as a joke. Ubisoft isn’t laughing tho. Concern.
TheRealStalinWhoIsStandingUp
I call it waco 2 electric boogaloo
MobiusTurtle
As a fan of the Monster Hunter series. I appreciated the subtle nod.
TheMightyCovfefe
To be honest Far Cry 3 scenario is also credible if we exclude the spiritual stuff. I really liked the "could be you" touch in the plot.
ThatOneGuyFrom6thGrade
I want to do a cosplay with my brothers of the Seed family
norwegiansilverfox
Great idea!
ColonelButtons
Ok ok ok but did you enjoy the ending? Cause honestly I fucking loved it. Great post btw.
norwegiansilverfox
Thanks! :) Yeah, I did enjoy the ending. I understand why people don't, though.
RepostFromLastWeek
I enjoyed the plot very much, but I was greatly irritated that I was denied retribution, which in turn made almost hate the plot.
norwegiansilverfox
I feel you. However I can like it when a story surprises med, and having the narrative turned on its head like that.
ColonelButtons
That's the way I feel, to know that you arent the center of the universe theres also other things going on and leaves the future uncertain
hateuscausetheyanus
I thought it was a bit more similar to rajneeshpuram back in the 80s
mqleen
YALL GOTTA WATCH WILD WILD COUNTRY. About a cult who bought like 80,000 acres in rural Oregon, and then tried to form their own city!
YourMomJokes
just played far cry after watching this! it's almost perfectly aligned
Rakoth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwx9nqknu-c Delightful episode of Down the Rabbit Hole covers this! Fascinating, mind-boggling stuff.
MicroJohnson
I watched a documentary about this in a college writing class, they were scary as fuck. But at the end it was all a message to why you 1/2
MicroJohnson
Should follow Jesus and his message. Still an interesting documentary subtracting the hypocrisy.
dmoral25
This should be at the top. The parallels between Rajneeshee’s group and Eden’s Gate is insane. The level of influence they had and tried to
dmoral25
Gain in Oregon is unbelievable. They even organized a bio terror attack. They went full on militia.
TheCobb1
I mean, in general, any cult is going to resemble other cults. But the means and process by which the Rajneesh terrorized people is not 1
TheCobb1
Entirely similar to the militarization of the start up of the LDS or Jonestown. Their plan was much more subversive and underhanded.
SleepingTide
Well some may regard the Mormon church as cult but I do not see it as such.
norwegiansilverfox
Depends on the definition, of course. I will argue that it is, although I appreciate that others think differently.
Kasador
https://carm.org/is-mormonism-cult
Cptmike
It's christian fan fiction at best
legoracer18
Funny because some Mormons would say the same about other 'Christian' churches.
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VaultDweller
As someone who grew up Mormon, it is. 100%
SleepingTide
You had bad experience with the Chruch I expect?
VaultDweller
Me and most people I know did along with me. It supports abusers and is cultish in every area.
YourBossAndLandlordLikePolitics
Btw Utah female Mormon breast cancer is 24% lower due to no alcohol. That caffeine policy tho. :/ ? Coffee is a major source of antioxidants
Kasador
There is no caffeine policy, they just don’t allow coffee and tea. You can drink soda and caffeine
YourBossAndLandlordLikePolitics
Soda isn't good for you!! Tea and coffee actually offer health benefits
Kasador
I know, when I was a member, I always asked why but they simply said “because the prophet said so”
YourBossAndLandlordLikePolitics
Who the fuck downvotes such milquetoast observations. Oh I guess people aren't aware that alcohol causes cancer like crazy. Google that shit
batatatat
They murdered a congressman. It was a lot more than just “some people” investigating
norwegiansilverfox
I know, tried to keep it short :)
myusernamebringsalltheboystotheyardandtheyrelikeitstoodamnlong
I'm currently standing about a hundred feet away from Jim jones' wife's grave
norwegiansilverfox
Do you attend Earlham College? :)
myusernamebringsalltheboystotheyardandtheyrelikeitstoodamnlong
U best believe
norwegiansilverfox
Google maps told me it was right next to the cemetary ;)
movethebongos
iirc the expression “drink the cool-aid” (as in willingly go along with/be fooled by the lie/dogma) stems from Jones and the poisoned drinks
norwegiansilverfox
I think you're right :)
DancesWithBikers
Your first point is a major error: the church Joseph Smith founded is centered on Jesus Christ, not himself. The rest are very selectively
norwegiansilverfox
In theory, maybe. In reality, the movement Smith founded was very much centered on himself.
DancesWithBikers
chosen to make your point. As to how far Joseph Smith could have gone? No need to guess, there are now 16 million members of the church.
DancesWithBikers
In over 160 countries around the world. Not a cult, but a restoration of the original church of Christ. https://www.mormon.org/about-us
norwegiansilverfox
Whether it's a cult depends on the definition. I will argue that it is. And size doesn't change anything, really. It is what it is.
CrazyMrowLady
I wrote part of my thesis on The Peoples Temple. I had to show how they influenced the creation of the Borg in TNG. Scary shit, man.
marshawnlynchatapressinterviewsaying
I would love to read a paper on that! Holy shit that sounds awesome!
CrazyMrowLady
The entire thing was looking at how IRL religions were portrayed in the series. Tl;dr, Roddenberry was a militant atheist, so almost all 1/2
CrazyMrowLady
Mention of religion was negative (shows people as primitive/immoral/corrupt/barbaric, etc). And I got to watch TV as research! 2/2
thisistherevolt
I did my Poli Sci thesis on cults and the influence of them on modern American politics.
CrazyMrowLady
Did you look at UFO cults? I love those. They're like, 37x more batshit than your normal ones.
thisistherevolt
I know of them of course, but thankfully they have little impact on politics.
CrazyMrowLady
That's probably a good thing.
IngloriousEmu
That is fantastic how did you come by that!?
CrazyMrowLady
I originally wanted to do all the 5 main series and comment on the differences in portrayal of religions, and show how things like 1/
CrazyMrowLady
the time they were written, the writers' opinions, and social changes affected each one. I didn't have enough words to do all that, so I 2/3
CrazyMrowLady
Just picked what I thought was the most intriguing religion/moral wise. Also, I low key just sat watching Trek most nights as research. 3/3
norwegiansilverfox
Nice. In what subject was this? I wrote my master's on Mormonism :)
CrazyMrowLady
Religious Studies, mate.
norwegiansilverfox
Same.
armonis
Oh snap! We should have a chat some time!
SoIHearYouLikeAnimeLists
You wrote your master's on Mormonism? So you basically failed that, right? Because I don't see how you could have passed it.
norwegiansilverfox
Got a B, actually :)
SoIHearYouLikeAnimeLists
Man, you have sucky professors.
norwegiansilverfox
Don't worry. I didn't quote Wikipedia in my thesis ;)
shreddedking
you should make post about rape culture prevalent in mormomlnism and recent huge amount of women coming forward with rape rings in church.
norwegiansilverfox
Interesting as that may be, it's not my area of expertise :)
Gryffinsmore
Source pls
possumcatt
My senior thesis for my Bachelors was on the Mormon church. It was in a Sociology of Culture class.
norwegiansilverfox
Cool!
possumcatt
Small world! I thought I was one of the only people fascinated by the topic!
norwegiansilverfox
Not at all! :)
Zer0Ph34r
Pretty good write up about Joseph Smith and his religion, but there were a few incorrect statements. First, the religion centered around >
schyzm
Heh. From the outside, your little cult looks like it venerates Smith more than Jesus. From the inside, it’s much, much worse.
Zer0Ph34r
Why do you think the LDS church is a cult?
Zer0Ph34r
Christ, not Josepch, hence the name "Church of Jesus Christ". Second, he didn't replace or add to the Bible, he translated different >
Hockeybeard
There are "Joseph Smith Translations" to the Bible, however the church 'officially' recognizes the King James Version.
duncanidah0
Fellow member here. The church does put a ton of "honor" on Joseph. We sing "Praise to the Man" ALL the time. And primary lessons have a
duncanidah0
really disproportionate focus on lessons about Joseph.
Drpepperwizard
From what I remember of that song while it is about Joseph it's also about the prophets as a whole.
duncanidah0
Definitely just Joseph: https://www.lds.org/music/library/hymns/praise-to-the-man?lang=eng&_r=1
Zer0Ph34r
scriptures that also testify of Christ, having almost nothing to do with the Bible and he revealed modern day revelation, just like>
Zer0Ph34r
prophets in the Bible. Also he didn't order the Printing press be destroyed. Wikipedia isn't really a solid source of info>
Zer0Ph34r
But being a member of the church and researching it in historical documents is where my info comes from, I don't just believe what the >
Zer0Ph34r
church teachers, people lie all the time, but I do my own research to back the claims being made. Whether you believe Smith was as a>
PotassiumRegulatoryCommittee
You forgot David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. Seeds look was directly inspired by Koresh
CityYeti
That Waco guy was wacko!
SilverRazer
I'm from waco, and We're all wacko here. Not as much as he was, tho
dotnetbeast
That's EXACTLY who I thought of
Ravenbreaker
Dont you mean Bradley cooper or Mathew McConaughey? Thats who my gf says he reminds her of. So I refer to him as Bradley McConaughey.
ev0lsteven
excellent mini-series too, worth the watch!
Elmo18782
Really? I saw Tyler Kitsch and thought to myself that I haven't seen much of anything good come from him in a long time lol.
ev0lsteven
have to agree on that, although i really like his performance in this mini-series! i barely recognized him...
Bluraysteelbook
The glasses most def.... the persona is interchangeable
Anonawesome
This dude fell for the "HD Sunglasses" infomercials and people decide to follow him?
Bluraysteelbook
Who ever thinks the end world is before the sun swallows us up is just wrong.
eftLayandedHay
From what i remember. Koresh was big on the seven seals as well.
Dirtsailor2010
My trivia team name is the "Branch Chlamydians"
RefAtty
HeadNod.exe
norwegiansilverfox
Didn't quite forget them, I mentioned the Waco siege. Koresh certainly is another very relevant example :)
norwegiansilverfox
Wasn't aware of the striking pshysical resemblance between Seed and Koresh though! Thanks for the heads up!
TheRotundOne
Since the project is called Eden's gate, it's most likely a reference to the heavens gate cult. Haven't played the game so I don't know 1/2
TheRotundOne
How much of them is in the games. But they killed themselves in the 90s to jump on the hale_bob comet. 2/2
norwegiansilverfox
Hm, interesting.