TheSexyMexi
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This dude gets it
Feb 11, 2017 11:05 PM
TheSexyMexi
397579
13750
699
CamelToeChew
Not all baby boomers r douches
DoublevBomb
Certainly not all, as we each interact with positive examples everywhere. It's just a depressingly large percentage that aren't.
d3jake
Why be reasonable, when you can enforce your morals on others?
DaedaIus
and that's why I'm pro slavery. I'd never own slaves.
squishcat
Teens should have sex education and education on pregnancy and how a fetus develops, as well as what happens to the female body.
MarylandBowtie
Time to scroll down to the bad comments
iuploadbearpics
You mean the good ones.
IgnatiusJReilly2601
People are going to get abortions. The choice is between legal and safe or illegal and dangerous.
zombiejedediah
If women don't have access to safe abortion, we leave them in the hands of dangerous quacks. Source: we've tried this before.
newsguycraigevans
I find your comment to be logical.
secondgoaround
The movie If These Walls Could Talk deals with that.
mellowdrama
Take away someone's freedom? Prepare to have your own freedoms taken away. Erosion of freedoms starts with the first step.
funkykitten
Who downvoted this. Ew.
Hoddypeak2
yeah but my coat-hanger business is going to do gangbusters
teamsprayfart
I wonder how many fewer cases of "accidents resulting in fetal injury/abortion" there have been since abortion became easier.
teamsprayfart
And I'm serious. Coat hanger and stair jokes didn't just come out of nowhere
AnnWiddecombe
Gets me when people are prolife & anti-arbotion, just shows they don't care about reducing abortion,they jst want to 'punish' people for sex
jipxjip
Pretty sure being pro-life means they want to reduce abortions. Hey let's create a life than kill it! (you talk about punishment). smh
looseyourtrash
perhaps some of them, I know kind and loving sincere prolife people
dragonherder
Yeah, but they end at giving a shit after the kid is born in too large a portion. If they care these same people wouldn't be pushing hard
dragonherder
To get rid of much needed social programs left and right that help families stay afloat when rough times hit.
DumpoldRant
Yep, force teens to carry pregnancy, then don't give a shit what happens to unemployed teen and her new baby.
jipxjip
Force teens to take responsibility for their actions. Oh Nos! They may grow some integrity!
darkdragonempress
Yeah I don't think forcing a teen into the role of parent is a smart idea. Most of the time they aren't mature enough and the kid will be 1
darkdragonempress
A lifelong burden. I'd rather they finish school and get their life decently together before a baby shows up. Much better for both. 2
AnythingMuchShorter
Sam reason I defend Muslims. Personally I think all religion is kind of stupid. But even more, fuck favoring one over another.
PassiveAggressiveHotdogVendor
Surprised to see this down voted.
EqualResponsibility
Why? There is only one global religion who's majority believe in stoning women, female circumcision, and killing infidels to enter heaven.
onegodoneloveoneway
So you defend them all then? Otherwise, you kinda just contradicted yourself.
AnythingMuchShorter
I am also against favoring muslims over christians, my country is currently not doing that on a large scale.
DaveFireBeard
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire
Craftylefty47
Unwanted and neglected children are more likely to grow up and commit crime than loved children. The pill has cut crime. Choice saves lives.
MissSiesta
Yep. Most are JUST pro-birth, not pro-life. They don't care about the kids quality of life at all.
Craftylefty47
I just think the argument is so laser-focused, in the weeds, and people need to step back and take a look at the bigger picture.
Xerxes4242
The road to fewer abortions starts with realistic and comprehensive sex ed, something conservative America is scared to death of.
Alvatore
"Kids shouldn't be having sex, so they don't need to be taught about it!"
HeavyMetalMonk
Some are like that, but I wouldn't lump them all together.
Alvatore
"Kids shouldn't be having sex, so they don't need to be taught about it!"
Vatricidal
And yet "Kids shouldn't have unsupervised access to guns, so they don't need to be taught gun safety" doesn't strike a chord with them.
Alvatore
America makes so little sense as to be effectively none, and this is from someone who lives there.
TellMeImAGoodGirl
Not true. I'm conservative & in favor of birth control, vasectomies/tubal ligation, & encouraging people to keep their pants on sometimes.
callcenterslut
The idea of not being prochoice is bizarre to me, as if there are women out there getting off on killing their babies. abortion is not fun.
TigerViking
Why is it so hard for women if it isn't a human life though? If the argument is that it's "just cells" why is is such an emotional process
callcenterslut
Because we women are kind of wired for it, it's kept our species alive. We typically are more emotional and sentimental.
TigerViking
But the point is it's not just tissue. Women don't have the same emotional strain with getting a cyst or mole removed
callcenterslut
I'm sorry, I cant help you understand the concept. It just is what it is, that's how women are.
TigerViking
No, the answer is because it isn't just cells. It's a human fetus. People who support abortion just don't want to acknowledge that fact
TigerViking
No, the answer is because it isn't just cells. It's a human fetus. People who support abortion just don't want to acknowledge that fact
demon256
While I 100% agree with the sentiment, I'd like to say that this has nothing to do with patriotism.
itsabouttogetspicy
It does if you understand how the constitution works.
Juvenaldylan
It has nothing to do with patriotism or nationalism of any kind. It doesn't matter where you are from, freedom isn't just an American ideaI
demon256
"Another person's decisions are none of my business" has nothing to do with the US Constitution. And I'm not from the US, btw.
crashtester76
As a photographer... i didnt notice what the sign said... all i noticed was the power pole coming out of his head.. :-/
forelle
I think it is strange to even have to discuss about this. Again one of those things where the US differs to the rest of the western world
HeartsAndStars
It's my choice to have OR not to have an abortion. I'll never have one. But I make that decision, no one else.
cazzyodo
I'm pro choice because of this logic...I'm a dude and can't imagine an alien bursting out of my sto-...er...baby being born.
murlokotam
I am pro-abortion. Pro-choice is just double talk to veil the main object of discussion: abortion.
jesusfuckingchristwhatnameisnttaken4
I'm a guy, but these people getting up in somebody else's business, thinking their being super moral and savior of babies. pisses me off.
jipxjip
Ironic that you come off sounding moral and superior, and that pisses me off!
dmax12
I don't believe in killing the homeless, the poor, or the genetically 'inferior'. I aplly that same logic to a 'fetus'. I vote accordingly
DumpoldRant
You'll notice the side that is against abortion is the same side that doesn't give a shit what happens to the fetus after its born.
jipxjip
There's a few local charities in my area that are homes for women who choose to keep their child and need help. I helped remodel one.
BabyGerald
They prefer the term "Pro-Choice" because they're not pushing for people to have abortions. They're pushing for people to have the option.
fuck123456789
Legal, Safe, and Rare
initialdave
Like a good steak?
Tunisia
Dem policies have brought abortion to its lowest rate in decades. Bush's global gag increased abortion rates in communities receiving US aid
fuck123456789
What's it like to be a country
Dabadoo
I guess that's one goal to strive for
blainetog
Santos for America!
SadCannibalNoises
How about legal, safe, and none of your business?
taylorisnotacat
tbf many people who opt to have abortions would probably prefer to have never been pregnant in the first place
taylorisnotacat
and many who DID want to be pregnant probably aren't glad that they need one (like if there are dangerous complications with the pregnancy)
7thTimesTheCharm
The first step to that being... PROPER SEX ED AND ACCESS TO A VARIETY OF BIRTH CONTROL METHODS!
Stardrummer21
I would upvote multiple times if I could! This was one of the biggest downfalls in my educational system, imo.
[deleted]
[deleted]
7thTimesTheCharm
What?
dogneely
What if I'm pro abortion and pro eugenics?
wellthatsjustyouropinion
yup! pro-choice lets everyone decide themselves. pro-life imposes some people's beliefs onto other people's lives. in sum, fuck outta here
jipxjip
Can you not see the hypocrisy in your statement.
wellthatsjustyouropinion
pro-choice allows pro-lifers to live THEIR own lives their way. pro-life imposes pro-life onto everyone. yes one's clearly more accomodating
RenegadeTQ
Pro-choice is no different. It's the imposing worldview that those who believe aborting a fetus is murder should get over it and shutup.
jesusfuckingchristwhatnameisnttaken4
OMFG, mind your own business. Who put you in charge of saving fetuses?
jesusfuckingchristwhatnameisnttaken4
Now. baby steps (no pun intended) which group's IMPOSING is actually IMPOSING?
RenegadeTQ
Everyone's
GiantRobotsRule
No, it's not Imposing. You can get as upset at somebody having an abortion as you want. No need to shut up.Just don't take away their choice
FPAwperbad
If you believe that abortion is murder and you don't like murder, then yes, taking away their choice would be the logical conclusion to make
jesusfuckingchristwhatnameisnttaken4
ARE YOU FUCKING JESUS? Who made you protector of fetuses? OMG fuck the fuck off.
FPAwperbad
Nice argument. Furthermore I never stated that I believe abortion is murder. Just trying to make you see from another point of view.
wellthatsjustyouropinion
pro-choice doesn't force people NOT to have abortions, it allows for both options. why should anyone but the mother get to decide?
jipxjip
How about the father and the unborn child? Even if it's her body, their are others that are involved.
wellthatsjustyouropinion
father can discuss with the mother but it's ultimately her choice. unborn children are not alive and do not have a say
RenegadeTQ
Well, to a person who believes abortion is murder, that would be like asking why anyone bit the murderer should decide
wellthatsjustyouropinion
there's all sorts of affirmative defenses to murder (e.g. self-defense), if the baby's gonna have a shitty life maybe it's acceptable murder
shadowgar
Safe havens. Hospital will take the child and adopt. Child will be fine. More than likely better than with the parent that chose to walk..
BiteTheHandsThatThieve
Because it isn't murder. That person is wrong. That's like saying not being an organ donor is murder.
jesusfuckingchristwhatnameisnttaken4
Who are you to decide from halfway across the country for somebody you don't even know. Who made you Jesus, protector of fetuses?
RenegadeTQ
Apply that argumwnt to the Boston Bombings or any other injustice in the world. "Who made you protector of X?"
RenegadeTQ
So essentially, your beliefs > their beliefs. Worldviews are all imperialistic. (2/2)
impala14
It's amazing that common sense sounds awesome. Oh wait no mythical sky fairy involved.
FPAwperbad
gb2 r/atheism
PeebRow
many lifers forget that choosing life is 1 of the choices on the table for pro-choice movement. pro-choicers just want access to options.
squishcat
Honestly as a mother by choice, motherhood is slavery and sacrifice and to some, torture. It's wrong to force that on someone that doesn't 1
squishcat
want a child!And it's wrong to bring an unwanted child into the world!It's not pro-life it's pro-suffering for some.What kind of life is it?
deidrechambersultimatecoincidence
Choose condoms.
DukeEd
But it doesn't feel the same
Pullout69
I know someone who got pregnant on the pill while using condoms. Unfortunately nothing is 100% effective and that is extremely ->
Pullout69
Common knowledge at this point.
probabu
Your username doesnt make me trust you
Pullout69
Zombraina
Choose sex ed and reasonable access to contraception. Just because someone has a condom doesn't mean they know how to use it properly!
blitherypoop
They're not 100% effective. If used correctly, they're about 97%. If not used correctly, they can break, coke off, etc.
DoublevBomb
That's true, and many people don't know how to use them all that way. It helps to use them together with another method.
blitherypoop
*come off (stupid phone)
RozzAMcGee
Come now, your phone is simply autocorrecting to your most used words. ;)
Pullout69
DukeEd
But it doesn't feel the same
Rulan
There's a lot of other options that do, for him and her.
[deleted]
[deleted]
HideyoWifeHideyoKids
Why do I have to julienne my nuts, why can't I just lop then off?
MotherfuckingJesseEisenburg
I never want to read the phrase "chop your balls up" again. I'm just picturing someone going at them with a meat cleaver. Uggh...
DukeEd
Someone if triggered
MotherfuckingJesseEisenburg
I'm...I'm sorry?
BiteTheHandsThatThieve
Rape, incest, teen pregnancy, non-viable fetuses, severe birth defects, risk to mother's life and on and on. These are just a few reasons...
BiteTheHandsThatThieve
why someone might choose abortion. But even if you disregard all those possible problems, we have a right to body autonomy which means that
BiteTheHandsThatThieve
no one can force you do something with your body you don't choose to. If we lose that then what's next? Forced medications?
Gixie9108
Let's just add gender selective, not severe birth defects, such as downs, blindness, deafness and so on to that list please.
BiteTheHandsThatThieve
I'm sorry, please elaborate.
Gixie9108
If it's legal, its legal. Let's stop being manipulative, sometimes a mom just doesn't want another girl/boy
tinkerbug
In the UK it's illegal for gender to be a reason. (Not sure about US sorry). DS is a difficult one bc its severity can differ so much.
Gixie9108
Sometimes a family doesn't want to deal with Down's syndrome, or other not severe birth "defects" is it shitty? Yeah, but let's not pretend
BiteTheHandsThatThieve
I don't see anything wrong with that n
BiteTheHandsThatThieve
I don't see anything wrong with that.
michelewithonel
Try telling that to your rapist...
aselfdefeatingattitude
The same side that doesn't want abortion also wants to cut back on sex ed and limit access to birth control soooooooooo
B1LLc0sby
Access to birth control? Go to store. Buy condoms. The end.
DeadChildrenAreDelicious
That's absolutely right. They think it's immoral & only teaching kids to have more sex.
frenchhornhero
I don't think you can generalize that to every single person who is pro life.
FPAwperbad
aaaaaaaaaaad hominem
HolyCringeLordBatman
Ad hominem attacks the person, at best you could call this a strawman. Might want to actually know what neckbeardy words mean before you use
FPAwperbad
My mistake doesn't diminish his non-argument. you insulting me doesn't make him any more right.
HolyCringeLordBatman
His argument really isn't wrong. Republicans, the "Pro-Life" party constantly attempt to remove access to contraception and sex ed
frenchhornhero
I don't think you can generalize that to every single person who is pro life.
erischilde
Didn't generalize. Said "side" not "those people". And they are right, that side is generally against bc, religious, etc.
frenchhornhero
Not how it came off to me at all, but mkay.
FPAwperbad
I'm not that side, none of us are arguing about anything other than abortion. I don't give a rats ass what one side thinks about something 1
FPAwperbad
completely unrelated to what is being discussed just because you associate two unrelated beliefs with each other.
RandomFruitBasket
Just so you know majority of the right believes these things because they believe in personal accountability and responsibility.
existentialist666
Choose pull out as early as possible.
StripTheFleshSaltTheWound
We need better sex education in our schools, which people are also against for some odd reason.
[deleted]
[deleted]
AbsolutelyDramaticNutjob
George Carlin said it best: Pro-Life is Anti-Women, and once you're out of the womb, you can go fuck yourself for all they care.
szepasszony
That odd reason is America's version of religious extremism
Treblaine
It's worse than that, even as church attendance has fallen there's still massive resistance, the common motive is ignorance.
NGAAHH
I don't understand this at all
afterdinneromelets
Having grown up in the Church, I understand the mentality. Sex outside of marriage is a sin, safe abortions, sex ed, and birth control 1/2
afterdinneromelets
will encourage the sin, as a Christian you have to fight against sin at all costs. Not that I agree, but I understand how they're thinking.
StripTheFleshSaltTheWound
But that religion should not be governing what is taught in our public schools.
afterdinneromelets
True. But morals probably should, and when your religion guides your morals, it's hard (if not impossible) to separate that two.
teamsprayfart
Love the "teach abstinence and ignore everything" else idea. Its like an ignorance is bliss mentality
Treblaine
People think sex education is "what sex position is best" really it's learning difference between conception and implantation.
Treblaine
The public have reached a point of being so poorly educated about sex they don't even know what sex-ed would cover.
pandalivesmatter
this is one of the saddest things.
thrillmechillmefulfillme
YES. you can be socially pro choice but personally prolife.
Zombraina
No you can't. The pro life cornerstone is that abortion is murder. That's like saying, "I won't murder, but you do what you want!" lmao
thrillmechillmefulfillme
You certainly can. You can respect other people's wishes/choices while having your own thoughts on the matter. You can understand why other
thrillmechillmefulfillme
Other people want to have an abortion, but you don't have to agree with their choices or make it known. It's a matter of opinion.
ibrakeforwookies
Not sure why you're getting downvoted for this. You can't say you're prolife if you believe abortion is acceptable in certain situations.
ibrakeforwookies
As a pro choice person I think the people that claim and publically advertise they are pro-lifers but then concede to the the (1)
ibrakeforwookies
Certain acceptable exceptions are cowards. These people who are caving to the BS stigmas perpetuated by their peer groups.
ibrakeforwookies
'under certain conditions argument' are either cowards , or at best blissfully ignorant.
Zombraina
Yes, and I agree. I think a great many people who call themselves prolife are actually prochoice in the end.
HammerParty13
but can you be social and still pro-abortion?
MyNameIsNotRoseTyler
I've never thought of it that way.
Zombraina
A pro life cornerstone is that abortion is murder. If you think other people are allowed to murder but you won't.. that's a bit silly.
FPAwperbad
"I wouldn't get an abortion but you can" is still pro-choice.
Zombraina
I essentially said the same thing and got downvoted for showing the logic behind why you can't be both, lmao. Oh well, you get it!
The701
Exactly. It's weird that it's so difficult to grasp. 2nd Amendment: Seems to say that you *can* own a gun, but it's not mandatory. You can
The701
hate guns yourself, and not own one, but still support the right of people to *choose* to own one. That's pro-choice, end of story.
Drosophilamelanobastard
On the flip side: i am pro choice, and I can sympathize with people that are pro life. If really believe a fetus is the same thing as a baby
ThePresidentOfStrayaOFFICIAL
It's absurd because there is no national consensus on infant metaphysics. So until then (i.e. never), I think we should be libertarian.
HeavyMetalMonk
This is why it's hard to debate. So many people don't get it. It's not about choosing, it's about murder- if you believe it's a baby 1/
HeavyMetalMonk
If you don't believe it's a baby then it's about choice right? How can you debate the topic with such a fundamental difference in definition
Cubby1313
Well they aren't equal... If I throw a baby and a test tube baby at you but you can only catch one, which would you pick?
HeavyMetalMonk
Why aren't they equal? Because of age? Makes no sense to me.
Aysling
Miscarriages run high in my family - every female relative who has tried to become pregnant has had at least one, most have had upwards 1/
EveryonesCousin
Agreed, no good answer until that is clearly defined. But banning abortions that are medically necessary is a bad idea regardless.
Niveks9i6
I think the idea that pro life is for the banning of abortions that are medically necessary is a misconception. It's more about using 1/2
Niveks9i6
As a form a birth control which is essentially what people are doing when it isn't medically necessary
shuttlecockinakumquat
Until it's born, it's the mother's choice to responsibly choose whether it will be born.
HeavyMetalMonk
You missed the whole point of my post obviously.
shuttlecockinakumquat
No I didn't.
HeavyMetalMonk
Yes you did or you wouldn't have said that. A person who believes life begins at conception would simply say "that's murder". You can't 1/
Leithoa
You did.
johnhamishwatson
so whats a miscarriage then, to you? ~20% of ALL pregnancies end this way. so h
WAFFLESAREPLEASANT
a dead baby?
Drosophilamelanobastard
Ive seen that it's actually higher 30-50 percent including undetected pregnancies. I see a distinction between embryo, fetus, and baby (1
FPAwperbad
Unfortunate. I consider it unfortunate.
Drosophilamelanobastard
both sides have logical arguments, so ultimately it's about emotions rather than logic.
BrumpoTungus
Pro life only has a logical argument if you assign a fetus the same value as a conscious human.
Drosophilamelanobastard
and some people do. I don't, but I don't think doing so is insane.
goofyfoot2010
My baby was born and died prematurely on my living room floor. When the hospital put pajamas on my baby for the short service, (1)
goofyfoot2010
They didnt say they were sorry for the loss of my fetus.
watchingavengerswithgma
My mom is hardcore pro-life, but she had one when she was a teen. In some cases I think it's a guilt thing
Drosophilamelanobastard
could be! but probably in most cases abortion in spite of pro life, not pro life because of having an abortion in most cases.
eldridge749
Do they believe people rode around on dinosaurs?
Oddfish
Sadly, some of them totally do.
iamthisguy247
Do you not? Then explain the Flintstones. I'll wait.
FnordGallop
CHECKMATE ATHEIST.
Drosophilamelanobastard
I would guess most people who are pro life do not think humans rode on dinosaurs, but I won't say conclusively without a study ;)
FnordGallop
Not sure. The 'pro-life' camp is a similar proportion of the population as the christian fundamentalist segment & they may be blind linked
soulman901
I wish people rode around on Dinosaurs....
FnordGallop
https://www.askideas.com/media/28/Men-Riding-Ostrich-Funny-Picture.jpg here you go. people riding dinosaurs. IRL.
Drosophilamelanobastard
If we did it would become mundane though. like we'd just prefer the convince of cars.
J2wooly
As a Pro-life supporter, I found my stance on the truth that we can all agree that a fetus would develop into a human being. This makes 1/2
onethousandblankets
I'm with ya, @J2wooly. You aren't solely being downvoted.
MissSiesta
You forget! It COULD develop into a person. That's NOT a given.
J2wooly
And I could get killed by any number of things in the next second. The question remains. Should we have the power of life over an innocent?
J2wooly
abortion either cruel (ending an innocent life, no matter how premature), or pointless (what other purpose does an abortion serve?) 2/2
GrandmaSlappy
Are you kidding! There are lots and LOTS of good purposes. And shit, we could debate for hours about the "premature" thing
gmaverick019
Well I just aborted about 10,000,000 lives this morning then, might do it again here in a bit. Feels good, man.
Mnr17
Nah you just aborted your gametes, like half lives. You'd need to penetrate an ovum to create a life.
Vatricidal
You think the point of an abortion is ending a baby's life? O.o
J2wooly
Is there another purpose?
Vatricidal
The purpose is to prevent one more unwanted or inviable child. To keep the mother's health intact. To correct a wrong or undo a mistake. >
Dokramuh
Saving the mothers life is a Good one to start with.
Ihaventsatonatoiletseatin21years
My semen can turn into a human, ergo masturbation is murder. Right?
J2wooly
Can it turn into life by itself?
Ihaventsatonatoiletseatin21years
No, but a zygote can't either. It requires the womans body. So if i have the choice for masturbation the woman should have a choice too
Ihaventsatonatoiletseatin21years
No, but a zygote can't either. It requires the womans body. So if i have the choice for masturbation the woman should have a choice too
Zombraina
Yeah, but bodily autonomy means an actual person ranks over a bundle of cells that will eventually be a person. Woman > fetus.
J2wooly
How does the woman outrank the fetus? The fetus is just trying to secure its first right as a human. The right to life.
MissSiesta
Because a featus is only the POTENTIAL of a human being. It's not a sure thing, regardless of when in the pregnancy it is.
Zombraina
Because a fetus will eventually be a person, it isn't a person yet. A woman is a person. Person > Potential for person
NotTodayNotYesterday
What I can not understand, however, is those who are pro life believing contraception should be banned. That's what LESSENS abortions.
Drosophilamelanobastard
Yeah that's cooko-banana berries!
dmax12
that is not common, there are literally only like 2 states that have tried something like that.
NotTodayNotYesterday
I'm talking about individuals. Or, have you really not seen the retaliating march against the women's march? Educate yourself. EWTN has em
dmax12
Source? Cause Google doesn't seem to know about it.
Niveks9i6
As a Pro life person I do not believe this nor do I think this is a very common belief. However I do believe certain ones are bad due to 1/2
NotTodayNotYesterday
Can you actually read? I said, 'THOSE WHO ARE'. I'm referring to those who do. It is extremely common. Not everything's about you, hon.
Niveks9i6
Due to their abortive nature.
darkdragonempress
Technically contraceptives can't have an abortive nature. That's labeled an abortifacient. Contraceptives prevent pregnancy.
zombiejedediah
If women don't have access to safe abortion, we leave them in the hands of dangerous quacks. Source: we've tried this before.
Drosophilamelanobastard
How could you sit by and let other people choose to kill them. I don't believe that but I would if that's how i was raised.
Drosophilamelanobastard
i mean were raised.
Drosophilamelanobastard
and the argument isn't 100% illogical.
peanutbuttermashedpotatoes
No, but it's kind of hard to believe that people believe that a bundle of cells is a baby. Pregnant right now at week 13 and just started
Drosophilamelanobastard
"animals don't have a life cycle, they are a life cycle" John Bonner, That bundle of cells is just as important a stage as and adult (1)
Drosophilamelanobastard
If you look at it from the perspective of what must exist to ensure the continuation of the species. Sperm and eggs are also alive, and (2)
Melanisia
Honestly even if a fetus were a baby, you can't legally force on person to risk their life for another. Even corpses get bodily autonomy.
SomeCrazyNerd
In the Roe vs Wade case it was determined that the states has a compelling interest to restrict choice to save life. Time is the only factor
Drosophilamelanobastard
Devils advocate: If the mother's life isn't in immediate risk she's just killing the fetus for her own convince. which I feel is justified.
Melanisia
Well, playing devils advocate: Giving birth whether naturally or via C-section is a higher risk to the womans life, than an abortion.
Drosophilamelanobastard
The abortion is more dangerous for the fetus ;) though I agree with your point.
Drosophilamelanobastard
abortion is murder, but an allowable murder that usually reduces overall suffering.
FPAwperbad
So you would agree Pinochet killing commies is okay? It did prevent unnecessary suffering.
Drosophilamelanobastard
no because commies can suffer. Embryos lacking nervous systems can't. not can brain dead people.
Drosophilamelanobastard
In ancient Grease and Japan Infanticide was not stigmatized. Kinda funny how much culture influences "human morals"
zFUBARz
Greece*
Drosophilamelanobastard
oh shit ya.
AdmJota
The situation where the mother's life is in danger is the one case where virtually all pro-life folks agree that euthanizing the baby is OK.
ibrakeforwookies
Then you have to admit you're some form of pro choice. Real pro-lifers don't agree with this either. Ie the shit they pulled in Poland (1
AdmJota
"Real pro-lifers"? &#^$ that @&#$. I just want to save lives. But I'm not idealist enough to think that there'll always be a guaranteed 1/2
ibrakeforwookies
Recently. Just because you say your pro choice doesn't mean you have to agree with abortion be used as birth control. You need to get 2)
DefinitelyNotCera
As a pro-life person, yes. If they are human, then it is murder. The only question is when does life begin? Thanks for your calmness there.
SadCannibalNoises
Not life, but sentience. A veal calf is more sentient than a 12-week-old fetus.
Zombraina
"A fetus is alive, it is a person! It can feel!" "The last steak you had lived a life with friends and love, and died so you could eat it."
Drosophilamelanobastard
Thats not really the question. fetuses ARE alive, they have metabolic processes, but sperm and eggs and bacteria are also alive.
RenegadeTQ
This is true. I got downvoted for making that clarification last week. The question is about personhood.
gerf
AKA ensoulment. The wikipedia article is decent at our historical understanfings.
DefinitelyNotCera
Yes. Sorry. Not enough characters. Human life is obviously what I meant. If it is a human life, then killing it is murder.
PKBitchGirl
Murder is illegal though, abortion is not illegal, therefore cannot be murder
IronCretin
My skin is alive, and also human.
teknoman117
I really do wonder when the lump of flesh actually becomes a person. At what point is the biological machine capable of supporting what 1/n
glamdringwielder
Actaully the fetus is always alive. The issue is when that fetus starts having some rights as an individual. If we say a fetus has the 1/2
glamdringwielder
Same rights as a person, then any animal that posses a similar neurological sistem deserves those rights. This is an utilitaristic p. o view
B4k4Black
I always view the question not as you're killing the fetus, but more the mother is choosing not to provide her body to the fetus. (1)
B4k4Black
It just happens that the fetus can't survive without the mother. But so is the case with organ donation, and yet that is not mandatory (2)
DefinitelyNotCera
But that doesn't work because the same criteria would apply to any physical dependant. You can't kill someone to avoid providing for them.
zeshoopuf
But you can give them away. The fetus only dies because it can't survive outside the mom's body. Giving a kid to foster care doesn't kill it
B4k4Black
But you aren't killing them. You can cause their death by avoiding providing for them. If your kid needs a kidney no one can force you.
SpoilFlunk
As someone who studied healthcare and human rights law. There's no answer to that question. Different experts give it different answers!
khora
Should organ donation be mandatory?
DefinitelyNotCera
I am a donor, but if somebody believes in the sanctity of their body, they should not be forced otherwise.
SadCannibalNoises
If someone believes in the sanctity of her body, how can she be forced by law to use her body to support the life of another?
khora
So if you are dead it's ok to not use your body to support someone elses life, but not if you are alive?
TheDeanofLean
Really it's when does sentience begin?
DefinitelyNotCera
Well that's one way to look at it, but I believe stabbing a person in a coma is still murder, so sentience isn't the question for me.
Zombraina
Yeah but the person in a coma isn't reliant on your body to survive. An embryo/fetus is.
Drosophilamelanobastard
well sperm are "alive" but even in strictly procreational sex almost all die senselessly.
TheDeanofLean
Can a person in a coma think? Serious question, if they are brain dead they are "alive" but kinda not right? I've confused myself now...
darkdragonempress
Technically coma people have sentience. Those in a vegetive state don't.
sweatypepperoni
because it isn't your body.
formeychucks
But it could be someone else's.
Drosophilamelanobastard
pro choice because I believe that when the ethical waters are dicy it's best to err on the side of personal responsibility not gov control
Zombraina
If someone next to you got stabbed, wouldn't you do something about it? Not just go, "not my body"? You're not seeing the point. I am pro 1/
Zombraina
choice, but if I actually saw a fetus as a person, I would consider abortion murder too, regardless of if it's in someone else.
Drosophilamelanobastard
Plenty of people would kill anyone trying to kill a 6 month old baby, they believe that trumps body rights. Both sides have logical argument
Drosophilamelanobastard
I'm pro choice, but I'm not falling for the trap of thinking the opposition is all calloused yahoos spouting utter nonsense
JadedWombat
I wanted to be patriotic, but then we somehow elected an orange shitstain.
jipxjip
Who's stopping you from being patriotic? Quit acting like a spoiled child.
dragonherder
Just remember. A patriot loves their country. You can be a patriot without loving everything your government does. If you loved all they did
dragonherder
you'd be a nationalist and a nationalist isn't something you should ever be proud of being as it means you follow your gov even when they do
dragonherder
really bad things.
Justag33k
This. This is exactly why I'm pro choice. I personally would never choose abortion, but I'll never presume to tell you what you should do
Carefuler
You can say the same thing about what they do with and how they raise their kid after it's born. Why is it ok to take an interest in 1/
Carefuler
another human being that someone else is raising After they come out a vagina, but not before?
ChrisLucas1
I'm definitely up for aborting some adults too.
ThatRelevance
@justag33k what if the baby was killing 'said' female?
Justag33k
I suppose I would talk with her and the Dr and make a decision. I don't know what I would do to be honest.
LowercaseG
I'm actually pro abortion, we gotta slow this train down
thomasthetankimgurine
As a British person, we only ever see the loony bin side of America. This is refreshing to see a Star Spangled man touting real freedoms.
moogloogle
I promise there are more of us with opinions in the gray area than media would have you believe.
Greeneyeddevil
My skin burns when I see protestors outside UK clinics just recently. Like naw, that shit doesn't fly here fucko, nope.
Attacker732
It's hard to shout over the crazies.
johnvictor
Fucking eh! Most have rational opinions with a few weird, extremely quirky ones. They're not as interesting for mass media though.
Attacker732
Most of us Americans are indeed fairly reasonable people, but that doesn't sell papers or generate ratings.
supersomatic
This is a straw man argument though. Its not a case of removing someones ability to choose, its about whether or not abortion is "murder".
jon666
Your parents made a mistake. Take that as you will.
supersomatic
Regardless of your stance, I'm sure both parties are against murder. One side just happens to think abortion is akin to murder. Discuss that
suchpokemon
This
WhataboutBobWiley
next on CNN, man set if fire for wearing American flag jacket and then fire stomped out by peaceful protest
cornzilla
Can I upvote this again?
ThisJennarationThough
Thank you. Exactly my stance as well.
Janthran
but if the belief is that this is a human being whose life is being ended, that doesn't apply.
stevenp012
This is the kind of republican I try to be. I don't agree with abortion, or homosexuality. But I am a gun totin' this us America, 1/?
stevenp012
The land of the free kind of American. So I don't give a shit what my beliefs are, I don't think the government should be able to tell us 2/
stevenp012
What we can and can't do. So I'll use my second amendment til the day I die, and if anyone tried to take rights away from women, LGBT 3/?
stevenp012
minorities, or anyone else for that matter; you can be damn sure I'd be there to put a stop to it. We're free. End rant.
dballzzz
+1 to this post and your comment exactly
Frederf
I figure it's a self-correcting problem. My startup business offering recreational abortions folded in 6 months.
ILikeQuiteHeavyMetal
Maybe you could branch out into recreational cancer surgery?
JonSnowForKing
Thank you
SomeOneYouMayKnowOrNot
Welcome to the libertarian party. Our policies are 'idgaf what you do' and our motto is 'get off our lawn'
Strosh
Is it just pro choice for rhe mother, or does everyone involved in the abortion get to choose? (Doctor? Father?) ... just wondering
PizzaBelly
Amen'
johnvictor
I don't support abortion and think those that have one should get some non-abstinence sex ed classes but it's their choice, not mine.
PeanutbutterCrawfish
YEEEEEEEES
Whenlifegivesyoulemonsthrowthematpeople
But was does the government have to pay for it? If anything it should be neutral on it.
newsguycraigevans
Ditto
AllTheCoolKidsPeeTheirPants
I never understood this "voting for something that tells you what to do", when essentially everything you vote for does exactly that.
Baja2185
This ignores the fact that it's difficult to draw the line between life and "non-life." And to dismiss the other side is ignorant.
pauliewalnutsgabaghool
Me too
Chocolatecoveredmoose
This is me exactly
RenegadeTQ
EVERYONE presumes to tell others what they should (or shouldn't do); that's the imperialistic nature of a worldview, and everyone has a /1
RenegadeTQ
worldview. Just by saying that others shouldn't tell others what they should do, you are making a self-defeating statement of imposition 2/2
CitrusGrenade
RenegadeTQ
I don't think you're the only one befuddled lol. Nobody likes to think THEY'RE the ones imposing their views on others
CitrusGrenade
And you're not doing that, right now?
DaedaIus
How do you feel about slavery, by chance.
Zombraina
Not telling people what to do with their own bodies has nothing to do with slavery. Where did you get that from?
Crasho2
At a certain point you have to care what other people choose to do, especially when it interferes with the lives of others. Ex. Slavery
Zombraina
Abortion doesn't interfere with the lives of others. In fact, no one would know about an abortion if the woman who had one said nothing.
DaedaIus
I think being vivisected interferes with the life of the child.
MnemonicMonkeys
Well, it is a part of slavery, but they're still off point
retgarr
Laws tell people what to do and what not to do all the time. They compel you to use your body to do things as well.
Yuken
I'm pro-choice, but imo having an "accident" is not a legit reason. Once people spread their legs,they expose their eggs. Sex-ed is crucial.
Rosie2003
You're not pro-choice if you think a woman should be punished with a baby for daring to have sex.
Yuken
Is this one of those "you're not as vegan as I am" things?
Yuken
I am pro-choice, since I think that the woman has the final say. The rest is just ethics. It's also not a punishment, it's a (1/2)
Yuken
Natural consequence.
existentialist666
I'm pro-choice, but the pro-life argument is they don't want you to have an abortion with their taxes or public money.
Sneetsnoot
I don't support corporate welfare but my tax dollars seem to go there. That argument is a moot point.
existentialist666
Well yes and it's your right to speak out so that your money doesn't go to corporate welfare. Whether it works depends on mobilization.
lowkeybrotherofthor
Hell no I don't want my money going to that.
MnemonicMonkeys
It doesn't and hasn't for decades, so I don't see your problem
supersomatic
No, this is what you've convinced yourself of in an attempt to demonise those with alternate beliefs. A hallmark of the human condition
existentialist666
You must have missed it but I am pro-choice. I'm not demonizing anyone I just understand the pro-life argument.
Zombraina
I thought pro life argument was they want no one to have an abortion, the having to pay for it just pissed them off.
existentialist666
Depends who your talking to. Many public conservatives say they don't have the right to stop abortion, they just don't want to help.
MnemonicMonkeys
Except abortions haven't been paid with public money for decades, and they're still getting uppity. So your point is wrong.
existentialist666
That's not true actually. Planned parenthood gets refunds from the Feds, and one thing they do is provide abortions.
darkdragonempress
They get refunded for services rendered. Abortion is not one of the services they get paid by the government for though.
sdiddles
Civil conversation here. Is abortion the same as stopping the possibility of life happening?
existentialist666
Yes I'd say so. I am still pro-choice but killing a baby is essentially taking away the potential of the human they could be.
Frederf
I figure it's a self-correcting problem. My startup business offering recreational abortions folded in 6 months.
ForgivingCat
Never? Not even if the fetus were dead?
OptimusPantry
Part of what's missing from that argument tho is that some anti abortion ppl consider aborted foetuses to be children, so just saying (1)
OptimusPantry
it's a personal choice is, to them, tantamount to saying "if u want to murder your own baby that's up to u." You can't blame them for (2)
OptimusPantry
not just accepting it as a personal issue when they see it in those terms. If you want to convince them abortion is really a personal (3)
OptimusPantry
issue you have to convince them that a real human person isn't being killed in the process
maybebeccadough
From my experience they get pissed if you don't call it a baby, too. They think that's "dishonest".
WillemHellfire
EXACTLY!!!
VeinyFleshtTrumpet
This. 100%.
Pawnderlust
It took me a long time & some fertility drugs to have my kids, still pro choice because everyone should have the choice.
UnevenElephant
But don't you dare fking assume my gender
Zombraina
wat
grovberg
Genuine Question: No one would argue that you shouldn't intervene if you saw someone's life being ended after birth, right? Why not before?
Strosh
It's none of your business.... except if you are the sperm contributor... THEN the woman gets to decide your business. Hmm, is that choice?
grovberg
To be clear, I think it's a complex issue with no simple answers, but I've never understood the "Mind your own business." rationale.
grovberg
And if you think the two are different, at what point exactly do they become different? I'm really asking, not trying to be a jerk.
nothingfancyhere
A logical line in the sand to me is when the fetus could survive and virtually no abortions happen after that point
grovberg
There's a very interesting RadioLab about that actually. It seems strange to allow technology to drive ethics though. Thanks for responding!
grovberg
And would that effectively mean that once artificial wombs are a thing, no more abortions? Just thinking out loud here. Thanks for engaging.
SomeOneYouMayKnowOrNot
Welcome to the libertarian party. Our policies are 'idgaf what you do' and our motto is 'get off our lawn'
nicsterZ
This. This is exactly why I'm pro choice. I personally would never choose to keep it, but I'll never presume to tell you what you should do.
segoart
So you would have no problem with me doing meth? Or killing a dog? Or someone else?
thehelpingphriendlybook
Is the dog growing inside your body?
RecoveringIntrovert
IDGAF what you do to yourself. You could kill yourself for all I care and I wouldn't miss a beat.
suchpokemon
Not the same
therearenotenoughusernames
Stop. Listen. Then speak. Or in this case read and type. You have a right to your body not some random dude, so no. You can't kill ppl
nominaltoactual2
You just don't get it
Melanisia
PLEASE go do meth, lots and lots of it all at once.
urinalcakeslooktastyforsomereason
Anonaru
The first one = you do you. The others are fairly outlandish moots which are only equivalent if they're growing inside you..
myopicmisanthrope
Meth, your choice. Dog, evil but your choice. Someone else, slightly less evil than dog but deal with the police...
myopicmisanthrope
Meth, your choice. Dog, evil but your choice. Someone else, slightly less evil than dog but deal with the police...
thehelpingphriendlybook
Is the dog growing inside your body?
PigglyWigglyJigglyTuff
Right... Apples and oranges!
blitherypoop
Are apples and oranges growing inside your body?
HideyoWifeHideyoKids
Why can't fruit he compared?!
HideyoWifeHideyoKids
Be
supersomatic
Do you support a woman's right to abort at any stage of pregnancy? It's still inside the body in the 3rd trimester.
Melanisia
Actually at that point it's just called a c-section.
MnemonicMonkeys
No third trimester abortion is unwanted. Those only take place when going full term will kill the mother and there's little chance for 1/2
MnemonicMonkeys
the baby to survive anyway. 2/2
RobertEmmet
And I'm better off if my neighbor can go to a doctor to do this, rather than using a coathanger in an alley, because it's gonna be done,
gypsy0506
Like I'd rather you not have to make that choice but I don't want you to be breaking the law or die because you did.
RobertEmmet
Exactly
FlamingBunnyTomb
In addition I'd love if birth control was easier to get and easy to afford for everyone so less people have to consider this choice.
AceLynch
so, are you really saying that FREE birth control isn't affordable enough
Morpheous
Bro i'm blowing like $18 a box on condoms, what birth control are you getting free?
RobertEmmet
Right! If somebody's belief defines a zygote as a human life, then why not ENCOURAGE the heathens to use condoms, to prevent the murder?
liliantbn
They should be made available for free everywhere. I would like if my taxes paid for that. To avoid diseases also.
peteyboo
haha because stopping yourself from getting pregnant is murder as well OBVIOUSLY! :D
RobertEmmet
one way or another.
NotEven0nce
I'm gonna find ya
NotEven0nce
And I'm gonna getcha getcha getcha
TommyBombs
This is the same as voting on gay marriage. I might not want to marry a dude but why should I tell other dudes not to get married?
JapAnus
Let's not forget prostitution as well
JapAnus
Let's not forget prostitution as well
RobertEmmet
Right! Better to protect the rights of people working in this trade and give them all the supports of a citizen. Cause pimps'll pimp if let.
JonSnowForKing
true, outlawing abortions dosn't stop people getting them, it stops people dying from them
whyohwhyohwhy1
hahahahahahahah... He said "legal abortions keep people from dying"...hahahahahaha.
YourLocalSnitch
Can someone please explain how a coat hanger is used for abortion?
JonSnowForKing
you probably dont just get up in there and fuck shit up.
magundi
They are wrong, the sharp end of the coat hanger was used to rip open the placenta, causing the fluid to come out 1/2
magundi
And spontaneously cause everything to start happening.
JonSnowForKing
or the opposite of spontaneously
RobertEmmet
If it's a hanger made from one piece of wire, you uncoil the wire, then very dangerously use the hooked end to damage the cervix and then
RobertEmmet
well, you can figure out the rest. It's not a smart procedure, and generally would cause a horrifying complication, fatal or otherwise.
liliantbn
I think at that point due to injury would cause hemorrage and that would cause everything else to come out.
YourLocalSnitch
Thanks for telling me. I always thought you just kinda... hit em or something.
dev89
Same argument for gun control, I'm just gonna see a guy in a back alley to get one.
[deleted]
[deleted]
whyohwhyohwhy1
I thought your neighbors actions are none of your business
RobertEmmet
If you want to argue that my neighbor manufacturing fireworks in their basement has nothing to do with my security, you're wrong.
RobertEmmet
Nothing in society happens in a vacuum.
whyohwhyohwhy1
and there it is, my point exactly. Hope those words resound in your head all day
secondtrumpet
And I would hate to find the aborted flesh in the alley
liliantbn
What about the baby that was born and abandoned to die? That happens often in many countries.
MCdaGrinder
I have a modest proposal...
liliantbn
Anyways if nothing is done those babies who survive are street beggars at 7 yrs old and criminals at 12. I'm referring to first hand observd
liliantbn
If you mean adoptive parents in US or Europe? Not nearly enough. Go ahead and arrange adoptions but I would rather distribute contraceptives
stickemwiththepointyend
Exactly. My body my choice, YOUR body is your choice.
Booblyflow
I hate this argument because it comes off selfish. Its not just YOUR body anymore when your're pregnant. Its still your choice though
[deleted]
[deleted]
Niveks9i6
This is completely ridiculous, it's about having responsible sex that doesn't have abortion has a form of birth control.
flapperfemmefatale
The idea is that no one gets to live off my body without my consent. Hence, my body
whyohwhyohwhy1
you made your choice when you choose unprotected sex. Now your only choice is weather or not your baby will live or die at your hands.
TheOnlyPoomy
And if the condom breaks ? If it's rape ? If the girl has bad luck and the pill didn't work as intented ? Then what ?
TheOnlyPoomy
Will you accept bringing into the world someone when you have absolutely no way to provide for him/her, guarantiing that he/she will have1/2
whyohwhyohwhy1
Look up the word "adoption"
TheOnlyPoomy
Overwhelming difficulties to survive and have a good, decent life ? 2/2
EqualResponsibility
So glad you feel that way. I assume you also would never go after Medicaid, Child Support or WIC right? After all, it was YOUR choice.
Notafishbecauseicouldntbedoingthisotherwise
But it is not your body because it has different DNA just because it is inside your doesn't mean it is you
Frederf
And man have I made some bad choices.
lovemesomepoptarts
A separate body of DNA is not YOUR body. It's someone else's.
whyohwhyohwhy1
A baby shares both parents dna
liliantbn
No one said it was. The body being referred to is the mother. Is not an object, an incubator, and is being treated as a thing.
lovemesomepoptarts
It's not an object, a clump of cells, and the human fetus (baby) is being treated as a thing. 1/2
lovemesomepoptarts
The mother made her choice when she chose to have sex. That's her choice to use her body. It's not the baby's fault.
stickemwiththepointyend
Except MY body is the one supporting that separate body. Your opinion does not change what I can legally do with MY body, or it's contents
Booblyflow
Same can be said about income. Can a parent say that its their income so they can choose to not feed their child?
Booblyflow
Also, your opinion doesnt, change that the DNA is seperate. Just because something is legal doesn't mean your not an asshole for it.
Booblyflow
Not calling you an asshole directly fyi. Hard to do examples in 140
Crasho2
It does if it's another person, and if you helped put it there.
liliantbn
What if the mother kills herself? The fetus also dies.
stickemwiththepointyend
Uh. No. Legally, I can have an abortion. Abortion is fully legal. Moral objections do NOT change legality.
housefriedricenoshrimp
Does that mean I don't have to help pay for someone else's choices?
slabaReactionSmuggler
What if you want to cut your arm off? Is it still your body and your choice?
stickemwiththepointyend
Sure. Not sure why I would want to, but why would anyone want to stop me if I really just decided I didn't need that arm?
Zombraina
Yep, there are people with body integrity identity disorder. You're not supposed to want to be disabled, and allowing a person to hurt 1/
Zombraina
themselves by cutting off an arm and a leg is seen as allowing someone mentally ill to hurt themselves. /2
liliantbn
There are people who have done it. Mentally ill but there even was a documentary about such cases.
definitelyarealdoctor
Finally i can persue my prostitution carrer
sundaymondayhippyday
Prostitutes routinely use condoms. Male and female ones
DarkBusterBaron
Pursue*
stickemwiththepointyend
Actually, I'm all for legalizing that. For essentially the same reasons ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
hiredhobbs
So you can... stickemwiththepointyend? I'll see myself out
stickemwiththepointyend
I don't have the proper standard equipment, I would have to use prosthetic ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
ApolloniusWrath
The problem with prostitution is that it's usually not their choice.
Zombraina
Human trafficking and drug manipulation are threats, but if prostitution was turned into a regulated industry, maybe it wouldn't be a prob.
stickemwiththepointyend
But legalized prostitution would open an avenue to do so if they choose, and make it a legitimate career choice with a safer environment >
FunkyZombie
I don't know about other countries, but here in Denmark it is legal. However, it's illegal to make money off of someone else prostituting >
FoxyEllie
That wouldn't be the kind of prostitution made legal, though.
DarkBusterBaron
Look at Germany prostitution is legal there.
liliantbn
Legitimate question: how has it worked for them as a whole? What is the minimum age for the profession?
BoatswainsMate
So.. I know this will be striken down... but, at what point does your body and that baby's body become separate?
[deleted]
[deleted]
BoatswainsMate
It's not a Derr, if I get in a car, am I a car now? It's still a baby with their own body. That's my opinion, and I was asking their opinion
dachsman71
Third trimester, unless nits dying or killing the mother.
RunsWithScizrs
When they cut the umbilical cord.
GrizzlyAdamsDidHaveABeard
Exactly. The argument is a complete non-sequitur. Nobody is saying that you can't choose to do something with your body. The moral dilemma
GrizzlyAdamsDidHaveABeard
comes when people claim they have the right to end a life just because they created it. On top of that no one can agree when life begins
flyingmonsters
Most pro-abortion ppl, would say as soon as it leaves the womb. Because "my body my choice" and it is still in my body
liliantbn
If it is viable, it can be born early. Around 6 or 7 months.
Zombraina
Lol, if we're gonna start calling pro choice people pro abortion, let's call pro life people anti choice. "I dictate what happens to you"
flyingmonsters
Actually the pro-abortion people do call pro-life, anti-coice
Niveks9i6
Well CNN already did that when covering the March for life and said Anti Abortion instead of Pro Life
Crasho2
That doesn't really work. Pro life doesn't mean "no choice". Adoption is a viable choice and fits into the pro life stance.
RunsWithScizrs
When they cut the umbilical cord.
SquaresandRectanglesandPrismsOhMy
People like to paint the other side as nuts, but that's what this really comes down to. Different DNA? Heartbeat? Pain reception? Birth?
stickemwiththepointyend
When the fetus is viable outside of the mothers body. That is my OPINION. I understand that not everyone agrees.
whyohwhyohwhy1
That's absolutly the most stupid thing I've heard all day. No, all week
stickemwiththepointyend
But it's my opinion so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
EqualResponsibility
This is literally the biological answer. It's a parasite until then. Remove the emotions and you can see the facts.
goofyfoot2010
You have never seen a baby born prematurely on your living room floor and die before you.
killedtodeath
I think a fetus becomes viable outside of the womb at around 11 or 12 years old, any younger than that it will die without intervention
whyohwhyohwhy1
It's murder, regardless what anyone wants to call it. It's murder
dachsman71
Except you can't murder a bunch of cells that can't draw breath.
whyohwhyohwhy1
Your definition of life probably isn't upheld by anathesiologists