May 22, 2017 4:03 PM
jtdusk
2256
97
27
hornsofthebull
UK! First and Best! Recently analysed as the most efficient Healthcare system in the world too!
Redbrickadam
I feel at this point if we got universal healthcare it would be intentionally designed to fail out of spite.
DaBurger
Outlaw McDonald's and I'll support it. But if Diabetes, Heart Disease, and other weight complications are mandatory coverage, its gonna fail
notme222
China nationalized healthcare in 1949 and ceased being universal in the late 70s. Turns out screenshots of Tweets aren't big on accuracy.
I find it funny that it's the communist country that gave up on it.
DJasperProbincruxtheThird
Once you give a public benefit to the people it's extraordinarily difficult to revoke it regardless on if it's bad for your country or not.
TheRagingDuelist
You're telling me the EU isn't in deep shit?
pirateninjaunicornattacksquad
they are, but not because of healthcare.
SirsSir
that is correct, more countries are trying to join the EU so can't be all that bad.
CarlosSatana
England is little willing to die as a country to get out of it
there was something the new about them quitting brexit, so not sure what is going on.
Obietrice
Yeah but it's not because of healthcare it's because of an absurd immigration policy.
RobQuinn
Which one of those countries has 20,000,000 illegals they want to cover?
Neednoggle
That's not necessarily a requirement though. I don't know about other countries, but Canada doesn't provide coverage to illegal immigrants.
With a few exceptions, such as refugees, you need to be a citizen or legal resident to qualify for coverage, otherwise you pay out of pocket
Yea but you dont have mexico and the rest of south america trying to sneek in either.
What's that got to do with it? Illegal immigrants don't qualify for coverage. Period. Is there some reason the US couldn't adopt the same
policy if they were ever to actually move to single payer?
Stolen identity for one. Its really not hard and happens a fucking lot
slabaReactionSmuggler
Drastically lower survival rates in almost all of those countries, but whatever
delpharseven
Not even close: https://imgur.com/NWo6IbD
If you don't know what survival rate is vs life expectancy, you really shouldn't try to contribute to healthcare discussions.
Tell me, what is the measure of the survival rates for all healthcare treatments and procedures and programs combined?
That's not correct either. Just go back to your cartoons and let the adults talk
http://sites.nationalacademies.org/dbasse/cpop/dbasse_080393#deaths-from-noncommunicable-diseases
https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/research/articles/concord-2.htm
ernxpac
Oh yeah?? Sauce or your wrong. Stop spreading ignorance
Best I've got for you. https://b-i.forbesimg.com/theapothecary/files/2013/11/CONCORD-table12.jpg
Survival rates for treated conditions. Not life expectancy. Almost every category. And the vast majority of new research. But yeah ignorant
Not the vast majority of new research. The US usually does 30-40% (varies a lot from year to year) of the world's medical R&D.
Anyone got a list of those countries tax rates?
JoeOrdinary
Norway here, tax 36%. 19% when i was a student.if U make less than ca 5000usd a year its tax free.
Canadian here: I paid roughly 35% last year. And did so happily knowing that we have the programs in place to help each other if need be.
LilSis061016
I don't pay much less than that and still don't have socialized services to show for it. We just suck.
HenryHugglemonster
MadCat221
Let's do a comparison of tax rate increases versus medical insurance costs they were paying previously for a better comparison.
Otisjay
Also their military spending
Canadian here: 19% combined federal and provincial for me last year. And I'm probably just inside the top 20% (lower upper class?).
I'm seeing a correlation with Canada and success here...
No. Canada has a decent system, not a great one. Other countries on that list get better care for less cost. The point is that even a 1/
decent system is far better than the trainwreck that is the American system. 2/2
I don't mind our system. Ive had to use it a few times and I've never had any problems.
imadeulook
And the population. The amount of Americans is huge factor on why universal healthcare won't work in US.
Blastergv9
It could if we had the ability to pull the switch overnight, but we don't
Why? Costs scale sublinearly. If anything the US should pay less per capita for the same level of care as other countries.
How would healthcare for 322 million people be paid for?
Taxes. Americans already pay 38% more per capita (PPP adjusted) in taxes for healthcare than Canadians. That's right, Joe American pays 1/
more in taxes for healthcare right now than Jonny Canuck. That's how spectacularly bad the American system is: pay more, get less. 2/2
Or survival rates, or wait times...
Well there's this: https://imgur.com/NWo6IbD
thevortexmaster
1) The wait time thing is a myth as far as I'm concerned. Anything life threatening is instantly treated, I've never waited more than 2
2) hours. Wait times are generally for surgeries that aren't an immediate threat to your Heath
Really depends what country you are talking about here
Of course. I'm in Canada
My buddy's wife is from norway and had a brain tumor for years that they refused to diagnose. She's got a few months left. Its fuckin sad.
Universal healthcare can fuck right off. Ive seen how the government does healthcare
PabloIsGreat
You can still get private though. If you are certain something is wrong go to a private hospital. Still better than none.
Not if you already pay 60% of your paycheck and the cost of living is higher. Those countries may have free healthcare but a fuckload of
Well the US has the highest expenditure per capita, but one of the lowest life expectancies. Solve that one
I'm talking about survival rates for treated conditions, not life expectancy. Highest in almost every category
People eat like shit, own cars dont have to walk/bike to work, higher taxes on vices (alcohol/tobacco)
Per capita and PPP adjusted, Americans spend 38% more in taxes and 220% more privately than Canadians for healthcare. For care outcomes 1/
that are not measurably better, and may actually be worse: https://imgur.com/NWo6IbD The US could lower taxes and significantly reduce 2/
the burden of benefits on businesses (making US based industry more competitive -> less outsourcing to China) by switching to a sane 3/
healthcare system. It would be win - win - win. 4/4
I guess in that sense Canada figured it out. Ive been to a number of countries on this list though and I've heard a lot of different stories
I'm happy to pay extra taxes to help out my fellow citizens and not be in debt to the hospital for my entire life over a hangnail
HD226868
Good news! You do. The US pays more for health care, per capita, than any other nation.
I'm not from the states but thanks for the info
PoopertonUnit
Me too, except I don't trust our government to use the extra tax dollars that way.
I agree, but you'll never get away from that
So why give them more? Kind of a "fool me once... " situation, no?
1) Because a portion of it is still going to the people and healthcare. I work for gov. Subsidized low income seniors so those taxes also
hornsofthebull
UK! First and Best! Recently analysed as the most efficient Healthcare system in the world too!
Redbrickadam
I feel at this point if we got universal healthcare it would be intentionally designed to fail out of spite.
DaBurger
Outlaw McDonald's and I'll support it. But if Diabetes, Heart Disease, and other weight complications are mandatory coverage, its gonna fail
notme222
China nationalized healthcare in 1949 and ceased being universal in the late 70s. Turns out screenshots of Tweets aren't big on accuracy.
Redbrickadam
I find it funny that it's the communist country that gave up on it.
DJasperProbincruxtheThird
Once you give a public benefit to the people it's extraordinarily difficult to revoke it regardless on if it's bad for your country or not.
TheRagingDuelist
You're telling me the EU isn't in deep shit?
pirateninjaunicornattacksquad
they are, but not because of healthcare.
SirsSir
that is correct, more countries are trying to join the EU so can't be all that bad.
CarlosSatana
England is little willing to die as a country to get out of it
SirsSir
there was something the new about them quitting brexit, so not sure what is going on.
Obietrice
Yeah but it's not because of healthcare it's because of an absurd immigration policy.
RobQuinn
Which one of those countries has 20,000,000 illegals they want to cover?
Neednoggle
That's not necessarily a requirement though. I don't know about other countries, but Canada doesn't provide coverage to illegal immigrants.
Neednoggle
With a few exceptions, such as refugees, you need to be a citizen or legal resident to qualify for coverage, otherwise you pay out of pocket
CarlosSatana
Yea but you dont have mexico and the rest of south america trying to sneek in either.
Neednoggle
What's that got to do with it? Illegal immigrants don't qualify for coverage. Period. Is there some reason the US couldn't adopt the same
Neednoggle
policy if they were ever to actually move to single payer?
CarlosSatana
Stolen identity for one. Its really not hard and happens a fucking lot
slabaReactionSmuggler
Drastically lower survival rates in almost all of those countries, but whatever
delpharseven
Not even close: https://imgur.com/NWo6IbD
slabaReactionSmuggler
If you don't know what survival rate is vs life expectancy, you really shouldn't try to contribute to healthcare discussions.
delpharseven
Tell me, what is the measure of the survival rates for all healthcare treatments and procedures and programs combined?
slabaReactionSmuggler
That's not correct either. Just go back to your cartoons and let the adults talk
delpharseven
http://sites.nationalacademies.org/dbasse/cpop/dbasse_080393#deaths-from-noncommunicable-diseases
delpharseven
https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/research/articles/concord-2.htm
ernxpac
Oh yeah?? Sauce or your wrong. Stop spreading ignorance
notme222
Best I've got for you. https://b-i.forbesimg.com/theapothecary/files/2013/11/CONCORD-table12.jpg
delpharseven
http://sites.nationalacademies.org/dbasse/cpop/dbasse_080393#deaths-from-noncommunicable-diseases
delpharseven
https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/research/articles/concord-2.htm
slabaReactionSmuggler
Survival rates for treated conditions. Not life expectancy. Almost every category. And the vast majority of new research. But yeah ignorant
delpharseven
Not the vast majority of new research. The US usually does 30-40% (varies a lot from year to year) of the world's medical R&D.
CarlosSatana
Anyone got a list of those countries tax rates?
JoeOrdinary
Norway here, tax 36%. 19% when i was a student.if U make less than ca 5000usd a year its tax free.
pirateninjaunicornattacksquad
Canadian here: I paid roughly 35% last year. And did so happily knowing that we have the programs in place to help each other if need be.
LilSis061016
I don't pay much less than that and still don't have socialized services to show for it. We just suck.
HenryHugglemonster
MadCat221
Let's do a comparison of tax rate increases versus medical insurance costs they were paying previously for a better comparison.
Otisjay
Also their military spending
delpharseven
Canadian here: 19% combined federal and provincial for me last year. And I'm probably just inside the top 20% (lower upper class?).
CarlosSatana
I'm seeing a correlation with Canada and success here...
delpharseven
No. Canada has a decent system, not a great one. Other countries on that list get better care for less cost. The point is that even a 1/
delpharseven
decent system is far better than the trainwreck that is the American system. 2/2
CarlosSatana
I don't mind our system. Ive had to use it a few times and I've never had any problems.
imadeulook
And the population. The amount of Americans is huge factor on why universal healthcare won't work in US.
Blastergv9
It could if we had the ability to pull the switch overnight, but we don't
delpharseven
Why? Costs scale sublinearly. If anything the US should pay less per capita for the same level of care as other countries.
imadeulook
How would healthcare for 322 million people be paid for?
delpharseven
Taxes. Americans already pay 38% more per capita (PPP adjusted) in taxes for healthcare than Canadians. That's right, Joe American pays 1/
delpharseven
more in taxes for healthcare right now than Jonny Canuck. That's how spectacularly bad the American system is: pay more, get less. 2/2
slabaReactionSmuggler
Or survival rates, or wait times...
delpharseven
Well there's this: https://imgur.com/NWo6IbD
thevortexmaster
1) The wait time thing is a myth as far as I'm concerned. Anything life threatening is instantly treated, I've never waited more than 2
thevortexmaster
2) hours. Wait times are generally for surgeries that aren't an immediate threat to your Heath
slabaReactionSmuggler
Really depends what country you are talking about here
thevortexmaster
Of course. I'm in Canada
CarlosSatana
My buddy's wife is from norway and had a brain tumor for years that they refused to diagnose. She's got a few months left. Its fuckin sad.
CarlosSatana
Universal healthcare can fuck right off. Ive seen how the government does healthcare
PabloIsGreat
You can still get private though. If you are certain something is wrong go to a private hospital. Still better than none.
CarlosSatana
Not if you already pay 60% of your paycheck and the cost of living is higher. Those countries may have free healthcare but a fuckload of
ernxpac
Well the US has the highest expenditure per capita, but one of the lowest life expectancies. Solve that one
slabaReactionSmuggler
I'm talking about survival rates for treated conditions, not life expectancy. Highest in almost every category
CarlosSatana
People eat like shit, own cars dont have to walk/bike to work, higher taxes on vices (alcohol/tobacco)
delpharseven
Per capita and PPP adjusted, Americans spend 38% more in taxes and 220% more privately than Canadians for healthcare. For care outcomes 1/
delpharseven
that are not measurably better, and may actually be worse: https://imgur.com/NWo6IbD The US could lower taxes and significantly reduce 2/
delpharseven
the burden of benefits on businesses (making US based industry more competitive -> less outsourcing to China) by switching to a sane 3/
delpharseven
healthcare system. It would be win - win - win. 4/4
CarlosSatana
I guess in that sense Canada figured it out. Ive been to a number of countries on this list though and I've heard a lot of different stories
thevortexmaster
I'm happy to pay extra taxes to help out my fellow citizens and not be in debt to the hospital for my entire life over a hangnail
HD226868
Good news! You do. The US pays more for health care, per capita, than any other nation.
thevortexmaster
I'm not from the states but thanks for the info
PoopertonUnit
Me too, except I don't trust our government to use the extra tax dollars that way.
thevortexmaster
I agree, but you'll never get away from that
PoopertonUnit
So why give them more? Kind of a "fool me once... " situation, no?
thevortexmaster
1) Because a portion of it is still going to the people and healthcare. I work for gov. Subsidized low income seniors so those taxes also