GingerBeardsRule
233618
8650
434
Puffins Matter Too!
Nov 11, 2017 10:50 PM
GingerBeardsRule
233618
8650
434
Puffins Matter Too!
SomeOneHasBeenLookingForYou
No one working a reasonable week's worth 35+hrs?) should live any lower than "dignity" which varies I know, but $15/hr in city won't cut it
Jabberwotchi
There are plenty of college educated people unable to find anything but menial work....I worked security with an ex college professor >
Jabberwotchi
>because he got laid off, though he could live comfortably with his savings he wanted to work to make sure his kids went to college.
FlareonTheFalseProphet
true, you can't demand a service then turn around a belittle those who end up providing it
SuperHir0
Yes! I had a hippie rich math teacher (his wife made the money) and he refuses to tip wait staff at restaurants.
SuperHir0
He said it's their fault for having that job instead of a higher paying one or getting education and shit. He doesn't get it.
DrMet
True. Seriously, I think that those "lower" jobs deserve at least equal pay to designers etc. - simply because the world's integrity (1)
DrMet
rests on the shoulders of people who do honest, hard work. Take that work away, and everything else will fall as well. (2/2)
WarpedSense
Judging someone by the title of their job instead of the content of their character is a major douche move
BadBunnyLadyOfRocksTreesAndDirt
That it's bad doesn't make it less common, esp in other cultures where you're defined by both occupation+rank.
BadBunnyLadyOfRocksTreesAndDirt
No disrespect intended, just an alternative title/identifier if they don't know your name, eg. "Mr Traffic Cop"
Ikeepforgettingmyusername8
Thanks MLK
WarpedSense
True first statement can be swapped for most situations
Ilikeyogurt
There’s waaaayyy too many douchebags then
NeuerStandard
selling fur coats might be one of the many examples where you can actually blame the job
Skulties1
My grandfather fought in Korea and was a janitor for 30years. I can't pass by a janitor to this day without feeling respect
Gallus1985
And back when Unions were strong and workers didn't vote against their interest, a janitor was a well paying job with great benefits.
Iloveanonymityandilovebeingnoticed
I'm a janitor and always feel the need to explain that it's only cuz it's for my church-I used to be a bank teller.
Iloveanonymityandilovebeingnoticed
Also, my cleaning co must think because I'm a janitor I'm dumb &won't notice them shorting me hours & yes I am allowed to see my timecards
QueenofFail
My mom got her masters degree in education and my husband makes more than her as a prison guard with no degree. Education doesn't always pay
Ilikeyogurt
I mean prison guard is a risky job
poofyogpoof
The risk is not why it pays. The way prison works in America leads to an influx of money surging through the private moneygrab.
CigaretteMan
By life expectancy of people who perform it, prison guard is one of the worst jobs in existence, so there's a reason for that discrepancy.
emparier
Almost the entire restaurant i work in is full of stem grad students who need the extra cash. Customers assume we’re just hs dropouts
peopleannoyme420
I'm proud to work as a carpenter - good pay- good benefits and I love what I do. College wasn't for me.
TheDrunkenWrench
Skilled trades ftw! Diesel mechanic and with my night shift premium I'm $36/hr. Only schooling is 4 yrs of computer engineering, dropped out
peopleannoyme420
NYC UNION CARPENTERS $52.50/hr !!!!
Hummingbirdbandit
Recently left college, also wasnt for me. Not sure how to get started in my field though. Everyone wants a degree for these entry level jobs
RADARMANKC
With 4 years college OR work experience in just about anything you can become an Air Traffic Controller. We desperately need more people!
Hummingbirdbandit
Awesome! Now if only anyone would hire me so I couls get the experience :D
Hummingbirdbandit
Could. Goodness, making myself look so smart
ymDtQG6purKz9eq
So much respect for your line of work. I wish I knew how to get started with woodworking. I'd like to make my own furniture some day =\
thelonepig
I love being a casino cocktail waitress. I help folks make memories. I love making vacations a little happier.
CardinalCanuck
There really shouldn't be such a divide over university/college/trades as there is. As an economist it pisses me off
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
For clarification, which divide are you talking about? (Public perception? Expected lifetime earnings differences? Something else?) 1/2
PerhapsAnotherPerspective
Genuinely asking out of curiosity! Thanks! 2/2
CardinalCanuck
Both. We are seeing the devaluation of university because of more graduates, so an equilibrium may occur
BadBunnyLadyOfRocksTreesAndDirt
Much respect for those both formally educated and natural aptitude for trades! I was never good with the math aspect, thus art skool 4 me!
Mamalemon
I'd think skilles trades is in a category of its own.
gtmiller
This is fine for skilled labor, but manufacturing as the baby boomers knew it is dead. I hate that argument.
malexmatt
Roughly half the boomer generation wasn't even 18 by the time manufacturing started its long, slow decline in the 1970's.
MyPalmsSpaghettiKneesWeakArmsSpaghettiTheresVomitOnMySpaghetti
And the American coal miners refusing to be retrained and naively holding out hope for Trump to save them
gtmiller
Coal killed coal jobs, so many people are completely ignorant of that.
Sorukai
I really wanna get into a trade after dropping out of University. How do I start? No one is interested in taking me on for Electrician.
Mydogbrowsesimgur
Dealership mechanic for 18 years made well over 6 figures Now I am shop foreman making even more money. If you are good with hands F college
rudejohn
I'm good with my hands but had more fun with math & love programming. Don't F college just because you have another option. Both are great.
malexmatt
Read a lot, practice, build a portfolio, contribute to github, programming is somewhere where you don't need a degree to do OK.
rudejohn
I've been programming ~20 years. I contribute to GitHub. Degree helped me get a job at a company that doesn't hire people without degrees.
rudejohn
In retrospect, I wouldn't be anywhere near where I am today (career & salary) if I hadn't gotten my degree. But everyone's path is their own
IThurtswhenIP6
Dealer mechanics make that much? Are you union?
Mydogbrowsesimgur
Yes they do once you get to a master level. Takes about 5 to 10 years. Non union. If you are a mechanic dealer is the way to go.
IThurtswhenIP6
Wow I didn't know that. Does it matter on make of vehicle/truck? I guess everything is softesre driven it makes sense
IThurtswhenIP6
*software
Mydogbrowsesimgur
Different make can make more money it really just depends on demand. Right now wages are going up because there is a shortage of master tech
vorpalblade82
My granddad, local businessman, veteran and high ranking mason (the 60s) said the most important man who came to his house was the bin man.
defenestrater
Was your grandfather the sort whose signature included 57 random acronyms? (we call them crazy)
VagisilToothpaste
Tell that to the people who believe that a living wage will invalidate their education and rape their entire life and make it pointless.
chase7436
Great. Then you're probably gonna have to pay a little more so those older drivers with experience can earn a living wage without having(1)
chase7436
(2)to rely on uncertain tips.
VagisilToothpaste
Or the plethora of IDIOTS who believe that those types of jobs are ONLY SUPPOSED to be for high school kids.
somepersondoingsomethings
Well you aren't supposed to make a career out of them....your consistency is what drives the wages down.
poofyogpoof
Norway, arguably the wealthiest country in the world is currently suffering from unemployment partially due to the fact that everyone 1/2
poofyogpoof
Is educated, and a significant amount of people are not able to find employment in Norway that benefits from their education. 2/3
poofyogpoof
Someone would argue these people should leave for where there is work. But this is not a simple task, and Norway is in no way unable to 3/4
Samshumanmaid
Some of the happiest people I know are college-educated blue collar workers. Creating happiness for yourself is pretty smart.
VioletMoonRising
Sigh... wait until they are in their 40s and have numerous physical problems. Don't romanticize it for others. That can be just as bad.
ProfessorExpert
attract too many people that think it's below them and can't imagine doing manual labor to learn the work (3)
ProfessorExpert
so much better and joyful than working in an office, plus there is stupid good $$$ from owning a company in an industry that doesn't (2)
ProfessorExpert
Graduated and decided to start at the bottom in construction and had lots of negative/wasted potential comments... working outside was (1)
biggwhytey
All work is noble if nobly pursued.
KyrosXIII
I feel bad for countries and people who shame garbagemen and other jobs as "low skilled" and for people without education, etc.
KyrosXIII
I certainly wouldn't want to take my own garbage to the dump, wtf. Can you imagine the traffic if everyone did that? Fuck that shit.
Ben1045
Might reduce waste
KyrosXIII
Maybe. Everyone will be stuck in traffic, haha.
BeginnersLuck00
Nah, it'll just increase littering.
mweyamutsvene
That’s why garbage men make more than people working in retail or food service industry. Demand means more money.
BadBunnyLadyOfRocksTreesAndDirt
retail+service get tips though (at least in North America). For Christmas we always left a 6-pack of beer with a big red bow for garbagemen!
Axew
Full time retail worker with no tips. Where are you that gets them?
BadBunnyLadyOfRocksTreesAndDirt
I was thinking some smaller/private businesses than big chain retailers. When I was retail we weren't allowed to accept tips, but some do.
mweyamutsvene
They actually make quite a bit more than than service+tips. Median salary about 40k capping out at about 60k in more expensive areas.
mweyamutsvene
Garbage man in New York makes significantly more than a bartender in NY.
mweyamutsvene
Moral of the story, if you want to make more, do something people don’t want to do, like septic tank cleaner. They make $$$
mweyamutsvene
Especially in the “unskilled” labor industry.
VioletMoonRising
Err, no one shames garbagemen, and they make a pretty nice living, even more so when you consider the lack of training it requires.
KyrosXIII
Maybe not really shame per se, but they're usually the used as examples for kids when they don't want to study. Which is unfair, really.
VioletMoonRising
garbagemen? No. Janitors and Mcdonalds workers are the main examples.
KyrosXIII
I've heard garbagemen before. But them too.
VioletMoonRising
hmm, maybe before the internet. But garbage man making bank is pretty well known now.
Tunaccat
"Low-skilled" is a classification, not an insult. It means you don't have a degree/education.
KyrosXIII
I mean people who use it as an insult, like "you'll never asking to anything and you'll be in low skilled jobs your whole life!"
Tunaccat
Parents/authority figures generally don't want their kids working low-skilled jobs because they pay less and have little benefits. You can>
Tunaccat
KyrosXIII
Agreed. Is it a "bad" job tho? I guess it depends where you're from too. Being a garbage man in a third world country is a literal shit dump
HodgeNPodge
I used to subconsciously assume everyone in a shit job was a slacker. Then I got my own shit job. No matter the work, everyone works hard.
ANightAtTheCocksbury
counterpoint: slackers exist at every level. I've seen guys working 40hr weeks at $25/hr doing only 10-15hrs of real work per week.
matticusspraypaintimus
I know a girl with a neuroscience degree and she loves bartending and serving. Some people have to do it some enjoy it, respect for both
TheDrunkenWrench
Bartending is a great career for those that can hack it. I've often thought about having a small local pub as a retirement gig.
dunewarrior
I've thought about bartending as a weekend job, but apparently you're not allowed to drink on the job...
Topnotch88
Some places you can, it may even be expected to have a drink with customers. I can tell you from experience, it's a bad habit to get into.
blairmichod
I mean, I have a degree in biophysics, but I would bartend if I weren't ugly.
HOLAKOOO
you get nicer looking as the night goes on..
definitelynotawolf
Bartending is a lot of fun if you do it at the right spot
chase7436
Great. And all those people should make a living wage so they don't have to get a degree to be able to survive without welfare or a (1)
chase7436
(2)second job.
poofyogpoof
Living wage and welfare are both basically the same thing. In an automated future, unless we sieze to value human life. 1/2
poofyogpoof
It is incomprehensible that a living wage will not be initiated.
chase7436
Yea, that's fine for the future. Meanwhile, children are going to bed hungry right now, tonight, and don't know if they'll eat (1)
chase7436
(2)tomorrow. That's a problem in the richest, most prosperous societies the world has ever seen.
YoloMojoJojo
Who assumes that?
ColoneISanders
^This. I am not very sure this is an unpopular opinion.
ChessySmile
My mother in law
apcamanda
That gave me a good snort/chuckle out loud fo sho
ChessySmile
:)
Skywatcher16
damn near all boomers, and a strong majority of gen-x
WardSharlow
Read the thread. You'll find plenty of people who believe that.
thatlamer
Were you not around when fast food workers were asking for $15/hour minimum wage?
elethomel
ie barely enough to scrape by in most cities
shimmernshine
When I was working a call center job ppl on the phone would say "I hope you find a real job someday" as a freaking compliment.
CarolMcAlister
Most middle class and upper class wypipo least where I grew up.
frankbarista
You’ll be surprise on how many people actually assume that or have that mind set
pappymill
My parents, previous teachers, ex girlfriend... lots of ppl.
HereticsAllOfYou
Baby Boomers
BreadyStinellis
What?! How can you possibly make this a generational thing? There are baby boomers in low level jobs, obviously.
ANightAtTheCocksbury
I've had this exact argument previously with people on imgur.
minkuschild
Everytime i ask for 2 mcdoubles and a reg fry, and get a mcfillet with hasbrowns. Thats fucking why!
LOLOLOOLOL
Go somewhere else with your money.
SpacePandaBryan7
Probably because those people aren't paid enough to give a single fuck about your McOrder.
MyPalmsSpaghettiKneesWeakArmsSpaghettiTheresVomitOnMySpaghetti
They asked, "Who," not "Why"
UnstableMind
There’s still a fair amount of people that look down on people who flip burgers. I don’t because burgers are great and someone has to do it.
GingerBeardsRule
Add cheddar, I had that bacon, enjoy Life's greatest gifts
gtmiller
You say that, but birger flipping can be automized at a fraction of the cost.
JustADumbRename
Someone had to do it now. And the way things are going, it won't go away and be replaced with a great, smart job. It'll increase unemploymen
JustADumbRename
2. and income inequality.
whyiseverythingupsidedown
People that flip burgers also normally cook chicken nuggets. And I'll be fucked if anyone hangs shit on the legends that serve me nuggets.
gengumby
http://files.explosm.net/comics/Rob/dream.jpg
Heysuckmybatarang
An argument they make is that it's a job for people starting out. Like highschool kids. They don't expect anyone to stay at that job. They>
Heysuckmybatarang
>move up to other jobs and new highschool kids take over. That's why they don't want the wage any higher. Not saying I agree. Just read
JustADumbRename
Some places have a diff min wage if under certain age. Makes sense to me. I suspect there are not enough teens.
ReachForTheBiscuit
An ex of mine's parents used to tell me that if I ever planned on proposing I had to get a "real job" that wasn't warehouse work..
ReachForTheBiscuit
A lot of "well-off" people think of people like me like vermin. Part of the reason we broke up was b/c she would brag abt how much she made-
ReachForTheBiscuit
-and say that my job was worthless because she made my weekly hourly in just 3 nights of serving weekends at BWW's. She was kind of a bitch.
JustADumbRename
Tell her that her tits will sag and her face will wrinkle and the "I wanna fuck you" tips will dry up real quick.
ANightAtTheCocksbury
businesses that can't afford to pay living wages shouldn't exist. they are extremely exploitative and a drain on social programs.
BeginnersLuck00
Yeah! We should raise the minimum wage and make those businesses close! Reduce their workers' pay from not enough to $0, that'll teach 'em!
rkSparksss
I worked retail to make ends meet last year because I wasn’t paid enough as a teacher. Got treated like I was below everyone and uneducated
LilFern
If you have a job and go to your grind for the majority of your week, you have my respect.
THExPILLOx
Im more surprised how cool you folks are with subsidizing multi billion dollar companies payroll with your tax dollars
EGOT
But... but... inflation! If we pay people more things will cost more or something like that. Or whatever Fox News is telling me to believe.
humaneffigy
They are miming things they're told, they never think it through enough to get to that part.
76Tromboners
There is no shame in honest work.
Blud4BludGod
I do blue collar work. Actually make good money doing it now (still nothing amazing but I don't have to struggle to get by). Some of my...
Blud4BludGod
...experiences with people over the years have been really discouraging. Not everyone...
Blud4BludGod
...will judge you for how much money you make, but some will. And for those people it's usually the only metric they care about. It's sad.
ff7cstrife
"We're working stiff Ricks like you, but our assembly line is justice."
LookaSquirrelbus
Nor shame in being honest +1
samsonguy920
I work full time at a convenience store. It's not grandiose and the pay could be better, but it is my first full time job. Plus every time >
samsonguy920
> someone tells me, "You are always here." I honestly feel a bit emboldened by it. Makes me feel a bit like I make a difference.
Falewhale
There are not enough upvotes in the world for this... So true.
SDhn2a
As a lowly comment farmer: bravo!
psychologicaltrap
but there _is_ low pay in honest work.
TheFastpaws
Tell that to most of America. Where they hate on you then say get a second job just to make ends meet.
RADARMANKC
What would make it better?
AntTrapHouse
No pay either
ResearchByJoe
There is these days
Cacapeepeepoopoo
Serving shouldnt be in that list. It sucks but i made a shit ton last year serving
f00f1ghter
Me too but i serve people i rap battles
ImHereToGetDownvotes
Easy to make decent money in a mid to high end restaurant, but your average diner waiter isn't raking it in.
zamielvanweber
America has had a long culture of poor = bad people and their poverty proves it. I still see people who think poverty is strictly a choice.
Jburli24
Maybe because people believe in karma?
fnordgasm5
A strange concept for a supposedly Christian country what with camels and needles and everything.
CrunchyLookingLeaf
it is better for a society if everyone aims high, and a few reach it, than if no one aims high
salokindoc
Yeah but only if society gives equal opportunities. If education is expensive it is limited to the rich
CrunchyLookingLeaf
im not american. our education system in australia is a pretty happy medium. I am an english teacher myself. governments don't see people.
CrunchyLookingLeaf
they see statistics....and if im honest, i like it that way
JevinKiao
Still, it's probably a better mentality to see lower jobs as a safety net from missing instead of low point ditch
chefchris357
I've worked in the service industry my entire adult career. We get shit on by the public so often it doesn't even phase us anymore.
HOLAKOOO
we're not all bad yo
willamjr
True. If a job is worth doing, it's worth getting paid a living wage. Demanding to be able to pay poverty wages is entitlement at it's worst
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
...multiple reasons (outsourcing for example) that these types of, usually service, jobs are too high a percentage of total available jobs.
Traja01
Low minimum wage is corporate welfare.
aCoolBreezeOnAHotSummerDay
There are tons of jobs that don’t have to provide a “livable” wage but instead train the new generation. The problem has arisen for...
ohnonotthatagain
Many jobs aren't worth high pay. There should be jobs that lead to better jobs. It's unproductive to ban those jobs.
WarmCigarette
fuck you, the only reason to think this way is because you're trying to take advantage of someone you need to work for you
ohnonotthatagain
Or maybe I'm trying to help someone get started in life by paying them to mop floors for a couple hours a day. That's not worth $35k/yr.
WarmCigarette
Your 35k/year works out to $18/hr for a 40 hour workweek 52 weeks a year. Federal minimum wage is $7.25.
WarmCigarette
Also nobody's saying a 2-hour a day job should have to pay the bills, that's a bad misrepresentation of the arguments. 40 hour standard week
Skywatcher16
who said anything about "high" pay? a living wage should be able to cover rent/mortgauge, food, utilities and medical with maybe 10-15% left
Skywatcher16
thats FAR from "high" and even further from "unreasonable". especially in supposedly "first world" countries
ohnonotthatagain
True, but that could be high pay for an unskilled entry-level job. Is sweeping floors or cleaning windows a "support your family" job? No.
Skywatcher16
if you are a business and you have someone dedicated to that? yes it is. otherwise, tack it on to another employees duties/go without
LiterallyYourBestFriend
Completely wrong - What's with this, "demanding" shit? What the fuck are you talking about? Is anyone forcing people to work low pay jobs?
GoldFrieza
Basically yes. Unless they're willing to live on the streets then they are "forced" to take a low-paying job. How is that not obvious to you
TChallaVanDam
Do landlords count?
LiterallyYourBestFriend
Your landlord is FORCING you to work a low paying job?
GoldFrieza
The eviction notice is an act of force. You are forced to move out if you don't pay rent via the low paying job
LiterallyYourBestFriend
Lmao you kids. No shit. What are you expecting? The landlord to accept his tenets to miss payments? No.
Hybris51129
Actually its a lot of welfare programs with hard cut offs when it comes to income. You get $200 in aid so long as you make below $300 (1)
Hybris51129
but say you get extra hours or a pay raise at work suddenly you are making $301 per a month and you loose that $200 in aid (2)
Barbarian90001
If Solving poverty was as simple as giving everyone a living wage then every third world/communist country would be a Utopia.
Gallus1985
1. Communism has never been tried. 2. Socialism has been wildly successful. Good game.
Barbarian90001
Yes I hear Venezuela, Zimbabwe and North Korea are Utopias. Oh, didn't know the USSR never existed, so much for Communism.
Gallus1985
1) N Korea and USSR are/were not communist by any stretch of the word. Communism is specifically about worker-control and the dissolving..
Gallus1985
70% of Venezuela's economy is private industry and 80% of their workers are employed in those private industries. Good job shooting yourself
Gallus1985
2) the class hierarchy. Workers controlling the means of production in an egalitarian way without class hierarchy...
Gallus1985
3) USSR and N Korea replaced CEO -> Mangers -> Supervisors and other leaders with government officials. Worker control was never given.
Gallus1985
4) and pretty much everything of commendable socialist systems in the USSR were dissolved by 1918. Woops. Good job looking like an idiot.
AceOfShovels
It's one of two big steps. The other is teaching basic money management.
BeginnersLuck00
When you increase minimum wages, you increase unemployment rates. That's basic economics.
rocketturttle
those are mutually exclusive. if you have a good grasp on money management, you could do the math & understand the fallacy of a living wage
waitwasthatreal
A job is worth what someone is willing to get paid for it.
Strasburg6592
The power differential between the employer and the employee negates the practicality of your view.
waitwasthatreal
Not really, you have to agree to work for someone.
Strasburg6592
Yeah, but if you don't agree to work for those wages, you almost certainly starve.
waitwasthatreal
I get that, but if you don't take the job, someone else will be willing at that pay
gtmiller
Then currwnt wages are too low by those metrics.
waitwasthatreal
How? People are working the jobs.
Canofminus
Which is why we implemented minimum wage laws to fight against exploitation, but then we never kept up with the actual cost of living.
Marceldeno
That stops being functional if people don't have some sort of social stability first. If I don't think it is worth it but have to starve my
Marceldeno
..kids to prove to you that the pay isn't worth it, I will be forced to take that job for undervalued pay and you go; Ha, I knew I was payi
Carefuler
If others who can perform the work are willing to do it for less, you're getting overpaid. Just because you can't do it as efficiently as 1/
Carefuler
them doesn't mean you deserve to be paid more.
waitwasthatreal
It doesn't. If it's enough that someone will take it, that's it's value. If I offer you a job at 1/hr I would think you wouldn't take it?>>
Marceldeno
If a dollar would feed my kids or prevent them from starving... yeah I would work for a dollar
waitwasthatreal
The point is that it won’t. The reason employers are able to pay what they do is because someone sill take the job. If nobody is willing>
waitwasthatreal
Because it isn't worth your time.
GiantBlueSpaceship
Thats called exploiting the desperation of the poverty sticken starving people. How can you not see that ? Are you blind or just evil ?
StonerCatJay
If I'm homeless and starving and working for a few hours will get me something off the dollar menu then I'd take it, yeah. That doesn't make
LiterallyYourBestFriend
You're arguing against a bunch of liberal studies college kids that have ZERO concept history or economics.
JustADumbRename
Oh you're so fucking smart, look at you. Everyone here understands bruh. Every terrible thing happens for a reason. That doesn't mean we
JustADumbRename
2. should sit down and take it in the ass. All the defenses you're slinging apply equally well to slavery.
AceOfShovels
Employers determine the worth of jobs. No one else. Employees are forced to take what they're given or go hungry.
SardonicGrin
Wrong. Labor is a market like anything else with supply and demand.
AceOfShovels
The concept of supply/demand itself does not magically drive everything. It's easily manipulated for profit, more so for bigger corporations
GoldFrieza
The semantics you people argue over.... All he said was employers determine how much to pay employees. And employees can take it or leave it
Barbarian90001
Or what someone is able to contribute, produce.
waitwasthatreal
If you work independently sure!
Contrarianpov
Exactly. Wages are based on labor demand. Not consumer demand. Two separate things.
halfofyouaredumberthantherest
Hitting em hard with the econ. Well played.
agent164
Just like the value of a good is what people are willing to pay for it.
waitwasthatreal
It's the exact same concept, but when you mention that is applies to labor, people literally call you evil.
Gallus1985
2)..and since they know that they own all the power, and that the laborer is desperate, the owner exploits labor from the powerless....
Gallus1985
1) This is not quite true. The problem being your livelihood depends on working. Owners of the means of production know this....
Gallus1985
3).. below what is acceptable. It's wage slavery. The system is rigged against the worker. Stop defending this bullshit system.
waitwasthatreal
That's just not true. First it depends on what you consider acceptable. Then just look at industries. Every company pays what someone will>>
Gallus1985
You seem to not understand reality. The working class are exploited as capitalism concentrates power and control into the hands of the few
waitwasthatreal
The poor are not in an economic serfdom, there is nothing preventing people from having economic mobility
waitwasthatreal
Accept. The reason that McDonald's employees make less then your garbage man isn't that McDonald's is evil, it's because there is an>>
Gallus1985
Again, you seem highly confused about reality. Please educate yourself in economics and history before you speak to me.
waitwasthatreal
Abundance of people willing to work at that rate, and nobody wants to collect trash so they have to may more than minimum.
1Plebian
If we could all be garbage men and live the lives we wanted, everyone would do it.
1Plebian
that's what drops its value,
ReaperCDN
This is a stupid argument to make that's easily debunked.
1Plebian
I think capitalism is the best true answer except for the upper and lower bound ends
1Plebian
partially
1Plebian
It usually gets taken to extremes on both sides
1Plebian
capitalism mixed with humanity if you will, because humans are humans
ReaperCDN
Capitalism without regulations at both ends is a garbage system fated to collapse on top of itself. We're already seeing the effects /1
ReaperCDN
of people pooling money at the top and not re-circulating it. The USA isn't far off from a serious depression without a major change.
1Plebian
That happens to be true about EVERY system
1Plebian
I personally am looking forward to the shake-up
JunWasHere
Totally agree, but those dick-movers will never get it so I hope for a future everyone gets a "life allowance" and robots automate (1/?)
poofyogpoof
Given the incredibly change in our way of life over the span of less than a 100 years. I would not be surprised if automation on a large 1/2
poofyogpoof
scale hits before the end of this century. By then, unless we've been subdued by large corporations and ethics have not been thrown out 2/3
poofyogpoof
the window. A life allowance, or being provided all necessary means for life will be required for society to function. Socialism is 3/4
poofyogpoof
paramount in a future in which the vast majority of people will not be needed by the people in power. Today we're of value to society, 4/5
poofyogpoof
in the future we will not be. Possibly though, there will be a market for virtual goods.
JunWasHere
all the boring jobs. People would then be free to take jobs they WANT, whether that's running a hotdog stand or being a waiter. (2/2)
BadBunnyLadyOfRocksTreesAndDirt
'life allowance' sounds like socialism.
poofyogpoof
Anything wrong with that?
Skywatcher16
thats cause it is.
JunWasHere
Given the inevitability of robotics taking over many widespread jobs, it will be necessary. Would you prefer it come from gov't or corp.'s?
JunWasHere
(As funny as it would be if Disney became our life-allowance provider, I wouldn't want to rely on a corporation...)
covfefe
Some of the people in those jobs even have degrees. Example: me.
MyPalmsSpaghettiKneesWeakArmsSpaghettiTheresVomitOnMySpaghetti
Oh, my dear, sweet covfefe, what's happened to you?!
rjsadlier
Yup. Went from being a PhD candidate at an R1 university to a produce clerk. Best decision of my life.
[deleted]
[deleted]
TheSkinnyTallahassee
Bachelors in what?
Janedoe783
Over a third of the 66 applicants for janitor jobs in Seoul had university degrees.
erincpotterart
Me too!
esteeismyrealname
Likewise. 2 bachelors degrees = 0 career.
LittlestG
We’re a common breed. I have a minimum-wage waitressing job and a Bachelor’s degree in chemistry.
eleonidas
I figured a chem degree wouldn't be that difficult to put to use, where in the country?
LittlestG
California. Chem degrees actually have the highest rate of unemployment of all STEM majors.
eleonidas
Oh didn't know that, sucks.
gengumby
Arts degrees are important, just ask your waiter
thanksfoenothing
Waitress here. I have a BA.
SupraLove
As a law student who works retail part time, this scares me...
TheYoungGod
Why? I've honestly never seen someone in education for a trade struggle too much. From hvac and welding to medical and law. You're good.
SupraLove
To put it simply, I’m not the most confident guy out there and I question my abilities haha.
Darthran
That's normal in your position. It can help a lot to find someone else like you, especially if you can do projects with them.
TheYoungGod
It's people who major in fluff majors like literature who struggle. There's a reason those majors used to be reserved for the rich.
TheYoungGod
They could afford the knowledge for the sake of knowledge.
Darthran
I got a BS in econ plus half a master's in CS + data modeling. 6 months later I'm in printing--mostly folding paper for places I applied to.
TheYoungGod
A BS in economics isn't really training you for a job in particular. Having half a master's doesn't mean anything until you have a full one.
RoBnSnatch
My buddy is working on his Masters in Psychology and serves tables and I'm in music Ed doing the same
Spettel
I graduated cum laude at I tended bar for over 3 years.
HannibalHoseth
***Most***
CluelessTennisball
And there's no problem with that. An education isn't solely to go get a ritzy job and make a lot of money. It helps in many ways too.
cottontai1
Yah... I owe more in student loans than I make in a year... But sure. I'll keep in mind how character building it was.
CrazyPants5000
But when your stuck with that student loan...
mrfarmerdc
Farmer with a MBA sure makes my job easier
mratio
Can you create a business plan to get your good to market? Not trying to be cynical ass, really curious if it helps of if you were kidding?
mrfarmerdc
I have, i hedge the futures market now. It has increased my profit margin by 15%. We have also started to further process our crops (1)
mrfarmerdc
I now make soybean meal on farm I remove the oil from the beans. I started refining the oil
davidbeattie85
Yeah I just got my PhD in computer science and I'm still a grocery delivery driver! Gotta make ends meet, it's cold out here.
animatronicvelcrorat
I work retail. I am the only person in our store that doesn't have a college degree. Help.
Bluetastic
If you don't want a degree, there are hundered upon hundreds of things you can do that actually require no degree. Look at your passions.
Bluetastic
If you want a degree, do part time at a community college to get your basics completed. Transition to a 4year school when you can.
animatronicvelcrorat
i don't have the money for basics, I already cut it close, I can't afford to drive the extra distance and loose time at work
Bluetastic
Then it may not be right for you and that's okay. There's no shame in not having a degree. You own your life. Do what makes you happy.
Bluetastic
And if you think getting a degree will make you happy, then you can do things to pursue it. It may require sacrifices, like going into debt.
animatronicvelcrorat
well, that goes back to having a degree... I guess. Maybe. I haven't really thought about what I actually want. It all seems to expensive.
Darthran
I was making minimum at office Depot, after a year I got into a more industrial gig that paid $2 more per hour. Looking around might pay off
animatronicvelcrorat
I've applied everywhere local enough to be worth it, I'm just gonna have to move
EmperorMahaco
I just got a job working part time as a fast food cashier making $9 and I have a degree.
TheSkinnyTallahassee
Having a degree doesn’t mean shit. It’s infinitely more useful and harder to get a comp sci degree than it is to get a gender stds degree.
Darthran
Not always the case. I worked hard in econ + C's, including the graduate level. I work for what's basically an industrial Kinko's.
ImFeelingSupersonicGiveMeGinandTonic
I have a bachelor's, I'm taking a year off before graduate school and I fold clothes at Costco. No one appreciates what I do.
Iambecomeskeptikal
When I was 18 we hired a person with a degree in sociology to work under me at the front desk of a hotel, I hadn’t graduated Highschool yet
glink33
Liberal Arts?
Contrarianpov
Lol
gtmiller
No, lot of bullshit in the job market.
glink33
Hear you there, took me a whole year to find a job after graduating and I needed to move out of state for it
ArtOzz
In this world and economy, if someone can survive and make a living do anything whatsoever, that is great. End of story.
poofyogpoof
The world as it is will be in dire shape come a few years. Automation will inevitably hit, how we distribute the gains of this will 1/2
poofyogpoof
shape the way our future world will look. I'm not too worried be it that I'm living in Norway, but for many there will be a crisis 2/3
poofyogpoof
In what I expect to be within my lifetime. We're surely closing in on a significant change to our way of life.