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May 31, 2024 1:21 PM
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nacklebit
Almost like the newer generations aren't cool for hating on people for no good reason.
Isgrimnur
Good
kosherpork
Did they try looking in the last place they left them?
machmach
TheHuntedSnark
Have they checked the lint filter?
SolarFlaair
When you don't follow what you preach people notice. When you "adjust" the readings to fit your message, people notice. When they notice the inconsistencies of the church, people leave. Things like welcome the poor and hungry, but the church hoards money and helps no one except themselves.
OnyxTurret
Good.
wadenelson1
You can only worship one Master. Jesus Christ or Donald Trump. The Evangelicals made their choice.
BobisBobIsHimIsMe
Well when they are actively propping up the next anti christ.
Who blames them.
littlecoatfatguy
BeaverOnFire
bigmrlloyd
Was it the child rape? I bet it was the child rape. Awww, poor church.
BC2k2
Naw, it was the 'vid. Stupid fucks stayed open and didn't wear masks/practice social distancing.
glocksout
Trump is destroying Christianity too
missflatter
Probably the only good thing he ever did
ArkoneAxon
Weren't there also a number of scandals rocking the Baptists in 2022? *checks* Yep! And naturally, it was about sex abuse and coverups.
3Hills
Yup!
kimbozo
Good
masteryoplait
The boomers are dying and the younger generation don’t buy into this.
FlyingButtPliers
In this case it's a convention, not a particular church. To be part of this group of churches, you have to agree that - LGBTQ+ is a sin, gay marriage is wrong, gays can't be in the military, women cannot hold positions of power in the church like pastor or similar, and other stuff like women must submit to their men. So as baptist churches become less extreme in their views, the Southern Baptist Convention kicks them out. This is their own doing for fighting against the current times.
AMercer
Religion is having a tough time in the age of technology. People can easily look up the stuff the religions do not want you to know.
astrangehop
I don't know if that's a big factor in much. People usually just do whatever is popular and easiest without looking up anything. Like all the suvs on the road, people joining social media, the modern diet. Etc. People stopped going to church because their friends stopped.
Nanntuckett
“No religion” is the fastest growing sect in America. Relatively soon there should be more people that don’t identify with a religion than do.
hwatL4bloopy
No religion is an important option as I am in an atheist religion.
SciFiGuy2018
Should have got vaccinated.
pfunk81
While funny, this is probably much more complicated than attributing to single root cause. Still, I chortled.
Djkb6718
Reading the Bible is reason enough to GTFO.
LychFinderGeneral
What's the point of sharing this verse as if it were prescriptive? It's literally a starving madwoman telling the king something she did.
nevinera
I'm curious about the demographic distribution of the losses. My hypothesis is that the elderly were a major fraction of the populations of these types of churches (they were already losing membership fairly rapidly, and it's not mostly from _people leaving_). Then along came the pandemic, primarily deadly to *them*, and these churches reacted by essentially the largest at-risk population in constant contact with anti-vaxxers with no masks. I think you follow.
nevinera
Practically every post about declining anything GOP, everyone on the site starts shouting "they probably all died from covid", and it's usually nonsense, statistically speaking. But this is one place where I could believe it.
Couchwarrior1337
I remember having difficulty breathing in church we were all packed in there so tight. In retrospect, glad I got out of that whole situation long before covid.
OozyRatInASanitaryZoo
Did they die off? Leave the faith? Join another, worse, church?
DaintyDinosaur
This was my immediate worry: we assume this is good news, but they might leaving the Baptists to join the Flat Earth Evangelists, or the Women-Have-Too-Many-Rights-Let’s-Go-Back-to-the-1950s Church
Teratoid
Thank God! These are some of the most vile creatures on this earth. Fuck the SBC.
swephisto
Don't thank any god for that, my friend. God doesn't exist and that's what these people have realised. Kindness lives within all of us regardless of god or religion.
TZO2k15
This is the point where I'm trying to get to myself, and by that I have to erase hatred of other people out of my life, which is hard as fuck, but is easier if you focus your hatred solely on behaviour, deeds, bad traits, negative ideologies and religions that are separate from another fellow human.
TheZacAttack
That isn't what happened, the majority of the losses are just individual churches removing themselves from the official southern Baptist listing
Teratoid
This. I'm some cases, they're becoming too radicalized to want to stay.
Teratoid
I'm a tried and true atheist. That was a joke. Cheers.
ChorizoPig
The organization was literally created to support slavery. Fuck every single one of them.
Copperbrat
I dunno. Maybe they should stop raping children?
hordesofgourds
I'm a child that was raised in that hateful denomination. I'm so grateful to be out of it but now I struggle with trusting any and all Christians.
ElectricFops
I'm right there with you. I think the idea of Christian Nationalism scares me so much because I've BEEN on the inside, and been face to face with these people, shared a room with them. So I know how they think and understand their rationalization for why they believe how they do, and I know there's no logical argument to be had with them, ever.
DrPepper523
Same same. I think of it as some of them are just still on the pathway to finding out the real truth of it and leaving. Others I know are good people and are there just because it gives them a sense of peace. I definitely learned not all denominations were horrible like SB and some church groups were good ppl. But they all still believe in Sky Daddy and I don't need that in my life.
ScootiePuffJrSucks
Oh no!
Anyways...
WickedSludge
I wonder what percentage of that is corona deaths...
proxy5000
hydrocarbon82
"Religion is like a penis: it's fine to have one, but don't whip it out in public and certainly don't try to shove it down kids' throats"
mcopal
This is very true. I was brought up in a church that believed in long mission trips and canvassing neighborhoods that we didn’t know. As kids, we had no idea how to interact with people and the only tools that we were given were things that I now see were shady sales tactics. It going back to “homebase” and singing and eating together made it feel so much more like an “us and them” situation.
ragekritz
once you think back to how they have this planned, how they have a recovery scenario prepped for their own members, more so than they do welcoming new ones, it starts to have you either cast doubt, or double down and buy it.
squidmaster42
Just outta curiosity, which church?
squidmaster42
Woops replied to the response as opposed to this comment. Bit late but just outta curiosity, which particular church?
BeaverOnFire
sombrerohorsewagon
Vespasian88
This is true, but there are a churches who do a lot of good for the community. These are in the minority, but even they need man power for taking care of the elderly, homeless and running soup kitchens. Yes these should be state services.
mikeatike
And why can't those people do good things without the church? The definition of Hitchen's wager.
LychFinderGeneral
There's a lot of quiet and helpful Christian denominations. Southern Baptists are not one of them
artigrapher
A church can do good things for the community and still cultivate the in-group/out-group mentality that the above quora comment refers to.
zombiejedediah
These should be state services, so you can curse their gods and still survive
raftus
I agree. There are churches that do okay for communities. I also agree that what they are doing should be done by local/stage gov. My grandmother ran her churches food bank and soup kitchen for 40 years. She regularly gets women or married Ministers. If only all the churches were like hers. Sadly, they are not. Also, I can never support what they are because of their history.
Vespasian88
I'm pretty much where you're at. I donate to food drives and time doing stuff at friends churches, but I generally don't attend.
WhyDontYouMakeMe
The individual "Church of St. Joseph" can do all of the good in the world, but grifters, predators, and the politically radicalized congregations are who controls the narrative of what the faith means in America. That's why people are leaving and that's why people see Christianity as a threat
Vespasian88
You're right. I'm personally disgusted by how much religion plays into politics and it use to be worse. Many are cult like.
OohReilly
They also call for the death of gay people. They don't get a pass. They don't have a trademark on charity.
JustSomePersonThere
“But but but not ALL men are rapists!”
“But but but some cops are just bad apples!”
jasondeslin
Don't be subtle with people that defend churches, they aren't smart enough to catch it.
Vespasian88
...........???
JustSomePersonThere
Someone posted something critical of the church and you posted something in their defense. Consider reflecting on what motivated that response.
jasondeslin
And to be clear, yes my comment above is calling you an idiot.
proxy5000
Vespasian88
Wtf does police being cowards have to do with churches? I agree most churches are a mix of money laundering, abuse and cult behavior. Some offer free childcare.
proxy5000
u know what he said about his religion after this statement right ?
LychFinderGeneral
What does that have to do with the cops?
LostChats
I’ve heard this may be true of Mormons. It’s not true for most Protestants. They believe they are following the Bible (Matt 28 iirc) “Go into all the world and spread the Gospel,” Jesus.
LostChats
The difference is that someone could read Matt 28 all on their own, not listening to a preacher or a cult, and decide they should share the Gospel with the world because ‘Jesus told them to.’ That’s my only point.
mikeatike
Got into an argument with a priest upset at me for reading the Bible on my own instead of taking a priests interpretation. I guess that's why Catholic mass used to be in Latin and they were opposed to translating the Bible.
Of course he has a point. By the time I was done reading it cover to cover in my late teens, I was an atheist.
damianpryde
Oh buddy that is some impressive denial skills.
Gryphonosiris
Then you'd be cool with other religions like the Hari Krishnas, the Church of Satan, Hindus, Muslims, or Pastafarians showing up on your door unannounced at 8 am on a Saturday to preach, I assume?
mikeatike
No, but I'd love to invite some Satanic Temple folks over for a party or D&D.
kamenhokage
If the Pastafarians showed up with Spaghetti... yeah maybe. I'll forgive a lot if it comes with a plate of delicious Spaghetti. Otherwise no.
inspiringandfunnyusernamecoolheh
This is a common desciption for all religions, it shows that the brainwashing has worked on you, better get back to your tribe ;)
Poipoine
Its like a selfburn if you dont realize that the whole brainwashing process is hundreds of years old and even written in the old book
HsuDoNihm
Wait, wait... the brainwashing book is where the brainwashing practices come from? [shock /s]
whatspaulplayingtoday
Sure, but that's also a part of it. That's the problem.
HsuDoNihm
"Maybe the Mormons do what they're told in order to condition them, but Protestants do what they're told because we're told to." smh
kamenhokage
Until relatively recently I thought Mormons and Protestants were the same thing, and at this point in my life, other than the polygamy, not entirely sure I see the difference between some Baptists/Evangelicals and Mormons, tbh. And I was raised Catholic, so I have some experience differentiating.
VikingsAreNinjaPirates
I did missionary work for three years with my Baptist church: This take (You are sent out to make you miss your congregational community) is absolutely true of Protestants. You may not see it until you leave the church and go through your deprogramming, but it is absolutely there. It's less door-to-door and more, "If you see someone in distress, use that as your opportunity to proselytize." It never works because that is exactly when people don't want to hear, "Well, God has a plan..."
kamenhokage
I've had a horrible shoulder injury, following a bad ankle injury, pretty much nonstop pain since 2019. I was raised Catholic. I've been agnostic for a while, but I found myself praying some times during the last 5 years because.. 5 years. This said. If -ANYONE- while I was in pain had started to tell me I should go to church or it was part of God's plan, I would've told them to go meet their God or swung with my cane. I don't care to hear it. I want relief, not platitudes.
VikingsAreNinjaPirates
For anyone curious, my missionary-to-atheist pipeline started when I learned about cult brainwashing and realized every church I had been to was basically 10 out of 10 (Convincing you you are persecuted because you're special, rigid ceremonial structures, chanting/singing in unison, transgressions risk exile, sunk cost fallacy on donations, everyone hates you but us, etc. etc.) And I couldn't unsee it after that point. I felt so betrayed and stupid.
VikingsAreNinjaPirates
Icing on the cake was when I was rebuilding a roof a hurricane had destroyed. The leaders made me keep stopping to do "devotionals" (everyone talks about how great God is and how He talks to them). I got fed up and said (to myself), "I am trying to fix a roof He could've saved and instead I have to keep telling Him how great He is." Chanting about how great the Leader is instead of doing something productive is such a cult activity. They do it to re-apply the brainwashing debuff.
ohwhenwilldeathcome
idk how to tell you this…
cuddleskunk
Consider, for a moment, that the book you tout is a book of man and not of God. Suddenly, all of those pieces start fitting pretty neatly into the puzzle...and everything makes sense. Consider how much money, influence, and power churches have had historically...consider the motive.
5NoteHalf
Yeah, but there's a difference between that, and formal structured evangelizing.
TheseAreNotTheVotesYouAreLookingFor
Covid???
retrostone21
Big oof.
EastofPeoriaSomewhere
Slayage
Yere in the Netherlands covid had a big impact. When everything was closed down, people sort of let go of the habit of going to church. Just like didn't go to church because of conviction but because of habit.
GoatRodeo
lol
Wargamez
Impossible, they prayed instead of getting the vaccine
circlebreaker
My first thought was that the conga line of church sexual abuse scandals had reached the Baptists. I first heard about it last year, so I guess they're doing just as much (nothing meaningful) as other Catholic denominations about diddlers using their congregations as hunting grounds.
VictusVonGuyver
2023 lost 1/4 million and lat year half a million. They've been losing 3% of their members annually on average.
Much of the issue is that entire churches are leaving them and taking their members with them. They lost around 1,200 around congregations in 2022 alone and 1,000 between 2019-2020.
So while I think sexual abuse is factor, another is possibly political, most of these numbers started going down when Trump entered the picture. >
VictusVonGuyver
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/state/russell-moore-donald-trump-southern-baptists/
circlebreaker
Holy freaking shit, entire congregations? Wild, just wild.
VictusVonGuyver
Yeah, the numbers make more sense when you realize that even losing small congregations with only 50-100 members, that your organization will shrink fast.
BrickShakes
Was it the rampant sexual abuse of all ages or the constant beatings?
backrideup9
Covid is disappointed not to also be considered.
ProfessorDumbass
The beatings will continue until morale improves
AbeFromanSausageKingOfChicago
Praying away viruses and diseases instead of getting treatment and wearing a damn mask?
TheOneWhoWasLeft
Money. It's really the only thing that drives people away from churches at significant numbers.
slinkydust
Sure, it couldn't possibly be the hypocrisy or child abuse
TheOneWhoWasLeft
If it were that, churches would have been empty for hundreds of years.
Nalianna
Yes.
BeaverOnFire
Salpinus
Oooof, didn't understand why the priest was sucking on a shoe at first.😅
lance415
My friend doesn’t know and would like an explanation 😅
Salpinus
It's a blow up sex toy of an altar boy 😬
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Probably the opposite. When you see the term "Southern Baptist," that refers to a very specific alliance of churches; one of what are called the "main line" of Protestant Churches. These include the Southern Baptists, Methodists, Episcopals, and others. These churches are dying, by and large, because they aren't hateful enough. They are mostly tolerant of queer people, they are openly anti-racist, and are generally much more reasonable than the personality-based non-denominational churches.
solsactual
Uhh. No. Southern baptists are not tolerant. They are not racist nor anti racist but they are 100% intolerant of the other things you mention. They are much less reasonable than say catholics. They regard episcopal as border line non-Christian. They are about as antigay as they can be. The only denominations that are more conservative are church of christ and pentecostal.
Pelican3
Yes. Once they are introduced to reason the whole house of cards comes a tumblin’ down like the walls of Jericho.
mikeatike
Methodist split in half over the hate issue, as far as I understand.
ThePunishersVengefulBrother
I thought Presbyterians had a schism because of tolerance for homosexuality.
mikeatike
They probably did too. I know the one I went to as a kid did a super hard right turn sometime around 2008.
scottEkarate
DriverIRQnotlessOrEqual
But did the beatings improve morale?
yingjun
Lots of folks haven't been back since the pandemic, and Trumpishness has caused a lot of shakeup too. I cut off the church i grew up in because they've gone far right.
Calicious
mikeatike
The beatings will continue until their warped sense of morality improves.
dudeinjapan
Zixtank
Covid
tarataqa
jayman0123
I'd be willing to bet that about 40,000 of it was covid deaths
nachosyndicate
It was the everyone in everybody's business making them feel like crap all the time.
TheobromineAddict
That plus they aren't doing anything about it.
nsmike
It was probably the pandemic making them realize they liked having Sunday mornings back.
cosonfused
yes, so they fled to another one where nobody has whistleblown yet.
zubax
Yes
CitizenPrime
or Covid?
QuintinParry
Add to that the fact that anyone with eyes can see the blatant hypocrisy of any Christian faith supporting Donald Trump.
graehall
If you leave off the last 3 words your comment is still entirely accurate
DawnofAzazel
Old people are dying and young people are less likely to be religious.
sharkhugs
Probably not getting vaccinated too
Slander7
Them's beating words.
retrostone21
Why not both?
sagejosh0
Of course not, it’s all the damn liberals fault! /s
ilikepot8os
They were fighting to keep churches (with choirs) open during the pandemic, so..."lost" may also mean died.
AZRAELSBLADE
A win is a win?
APassingPlasticBag
I mean fingers crossed
malbec
Republicans died 3-1
fallswinkingtothefloor
Not enough of em
atrielienz
This is what I was thinking.
BrickShakes
Ahhh I see, that actually makes more sense somehow in religion world.
Shaodyn
"We refused to take basic precautions against disease because we convinced ourselves God wouldn't want us to. Now hundreds of thousands of potential donors are dead."
Shaodyn
Sorry, they probably use the term "church members" in public.
Newitt
A virus so insidious, it targeted church gatherings but spared BLM riots. /s
richardstinks
Just to add some context;
Black people have been victimized by police for... Well, for-fuckin'-ever while the COVID 19 pandemic was new to the world. Both BEFORE and AFTER the pandemic, Black people still suffer more at the hands of police and the justice system. My parents were about 10 years old when MLK marched in Selma and shit didn't get much better after that.
So yes, there were BLM PROTESTS during a health crisis, because at least you might convince a cop to stop killing.
richardstinks
In other words, until you clarify, you can get fucked.
The701
++ Here it is:
Cinammontoastcrunch
I know this is Catholics and not Christian's, but I think it's funny how many of the religious didn't mask when the only part of the bible that mentions masks tells you to wear one and isolate when sick
jonnnney
It's southern baptists not catholics. It's in the title of the article.
murderhobbit
Catholics are Christians
Zaranthan
Conservatives have never done ANYTHING the bible says, why did you think they were going to start now?
masteryoplait
Google it and you’ll find all religious groups have had sexual abuse cover ups in the last decade. It’s sort of insane how rampant it is among believers of all faiths. It’s almost like closed patriarchal organizations are magnets for child abusers.
ExecutiveProducerWolfDyck
I go a step farther and posit that sex abuse was the original motive to the creation of these religions.
Cinammontoastcrunch
I know about the sexual abuse issues, but we were talking about masks not abusers lol
raftus
Leviticus 13:45-46 if anyone is wondering
Cinammontoastcrunch
Yep, i enjoyed using that against the really shitty ones, some of them said that book isn't followed, so I pointed out it's the same book that has the supposed anti gay passage they love to quote, they'd always storm away in a huff
Newitt
I actually approve of mask wearing by sick people, a la east Asian countries. I hope voluntary masking becomes a custom here. But I can't foresee us going back to mandatory masking.
KarfinMo
Same! In the early days, I had high hopes it would cause a culture shift to adopt that. Then it went all political...
Itry2dostuff
Volunteer masking is very common in the PNW Seattle area
MCNewYorkLives
I feel like the biggest reason people fought against masks was bc it was common for people to get it and not be affected (either being asymptomatic or just feel like a standard cold). I would bet that, if the virus caused people to vomit literal shit out of their mouths for a few days (without dying of course), you would've seen a massive number of people masking and happy for mandatory mask mandates.
WilliamWeird
Hey now, don't discount the contributions made by our old roommate, SARS COV 2
Newitt
Pretty much all churches have been declining over the past half century, but evangelical churches like the Southern Baptists are not withering nearly as fast as the mainline denominations: https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2021/july/mainline-protestant-evangelical-decline-survey-us-nones.html
MAdMethod
Good
BeaverOnFire
qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyujmkiol
Interesting article dot. Read later!
valkrez
Those guys go HARD tho
AgainstMethod
That's a great article, thanks.
crodrigues
partially because their christo-fascism quality attracts the non-religous fascists that can't find a better place to fit, so they match their venn diagrams for the benefit of both.
Newitt
Strike up some conversations with people off campus.
Newitt
Also https://www.datawrapper.de/_/RgWuJ/
Saigon333
Thanks for the info! It's kinda funny to read that article and watch them dance around 'why' this is happening. "The religious right became more active in politics and that gave us a great boost! In fact, as mainline faiths hollow out, only more zealous churches remain. Now, ALL these churches have 'defectors', especially children, and... who's to say what's up with that? I guess we'll just have to think of something to do about it!"
DrPepper523
Defector here, woot woot!
rhixhikaru
Me too!
Saigon333
May you have every happiness in your new journey!
ElectricFops
In my experience, a lot of evangelical churches don't exactly sit on top of their membership books, either. I was forced to go to pentecostal churches with my family until I was old enough to get a part time job where I just happened to be available for scheduling on Sundays and Wednesdays during church times. There were people who were considered church members at some of them that had been dead for years, they just never took their names off the membership
FlippedOut
Catholic Church in Australia is like this. The claim to have like 75% of the population because its a 2 week process for them to take your name off the list. They use the numbers to pressure the government. When we do a census, it's like 40% Christian, with 40% no religion.