https://search.brave.com/ask?q=race+as+a+social+construct+not+a+biological+fact The educated know there's no such thing as race, but in the context of which hominids were here/there first, in today's America's I use Indigenous when referring to ancestral North & South Americans. https://search.brave.com/ask?q=ancestral+north+americans+and+ancestral+south+americans
My thoughts? Carlin was a very intelligent man who was frequently full of shit. Some of these I agree with, but I'm not going to be lectured by a white man on how to use language about minorities. You know those quotes that people love to post on here, where he rants about the elite? Yeah, he was right about a lot of it. But do you know what his conclusion is? Give up. Don't vote. Just bitch and moan and don't work towards a solution.
Love him but he is wrong on the etymology of “Indios”. It did come from the word “India” as evidenced in Juan de Torquemada’s “Monarquia Indiana.” What Carlin says about of “in Dios” is Spanglish. He means “en Dios”. Still live and miss that man but he stretched it a bit on this one. Probably the one time I disagree with this genius
Oh I'm sure he posted clip from about thirty years ago reviving outdated perspectives about an old argument from before decades of discourse about identity, language and ownership of words entirely in good faith. (Hambly that is, I won't cast aspersions on op since not everyone is online enough to recognise that piece of shit's aliases)
I grew up with all of his 90s and 00s material. An absolute treasure. Much of my frustrations with how we act and interact in our society were described so eloquently by this man... I miss George Carlin. One if the greatest performers. He could entertain and make you think. WHEN WILL JESUS BRING THE PORKCHOPS
Using "unhoused" instead of homeless is another term that's pointless. Some people get off on control. Slang words too slang is meant to exclude and make groups bond. Someone not knowing a slang term isn't wrong.
Jeremy Hambly is a lowkey neo-Nazi white supremacist scumbag creep and also the most boring person on YouTube. Stop sharing his garbage that he stole and slapped his name on because he’s a wannabe slop king.
I'd be willing to bet that George Carlin would hate his guts if he were alive today. George had lots of anger and violence in his comedy, but he was a person who really wanted people to fucking just get along with one another.
Jeremy Hambly is a garbage right-wing grifter. He just slapped his name on this clip to try to make some money off Carlin's legacy because he has no creativity and will do anything for money.
I think he kind of misses on native american but hes pretty spot on on black. One question that arises when you point out that "white people" do not exist, is the rebuttal of "but black people do?". White, is a nebulous term that never stays the same. Any definition given is most often bullshit. BLACK, on the other hand, is referencing an experience shared by many people, many of whom could not really point to their origin point on a map, for what should be obvious reasons.
Most blacks in American are called African Americans in an attempt to reinforce their existence as Americans. We don't call them Ghana Americans or South African Americans because their exact origin has been lost to time. We know precisely which ports they shipped from. But slavers collected inventory from a wide range of West African areas, And a black person today almost certainly has a genetic background from multiple tribes,
Patton Oswalt has a good bit where he says he wants to support lgbtq, liberal causes, etc, but he's getting old and can't keep up with the terminology. Then says the folks out to get you know the terminology, bc they use it to sound intelligent in their arguments they make against the people they hate. Meanwhile some schmoe on the street who doesn't know the terms is like "i don't care if two dykes want to bump tacos or two dudes want to slap sausage, it's not hurtin me none."
I don't know about the idea of everyone came from somewhere else, my understanding of humans on this planet is that human life basically came into existence in some part of Africa, and spread from there. By that light, every single living human being is an African-whatever. African European. African American. African Australian. In my mind, there's only one race. The human race. And we come at a bewildering and astonishing variety of sizes colors styles and so on.
This. But also human biology drives two factors: preserve the genetics that are working well while also trying to diversify the genetic code to make it better for changes. This duality bleeds into our psychology and sociology. It's why some folks are adamant about only breeding within their narrow idea of "race" while others feel driven to breed outside their society's idea of what their and others races are. The mindsets clash, esp before we globalized.
Sure but that still means that everyone who doesn't live in Africa now came from someplace else; even if that someplace is the same place for everyone, depending on how far back you go.
While true, it glosses over a concept of the initial settling population, or first peoples. They may not be fully "native" in as much as homo sapiens species was initially native to the African continent, but we mean it as the descendents of the first populations of that tribe, to distinguish from colonists who arrived later and fought the first group off their land.
George actually got that fact about "Indians" very incorrect. The story about Columbus calling them Indians for any reason other than naming them after the nation of India is absolutely false. His claim that "India was called Hindustan" is also inaccurate. Only the middle east refered to it as Hindustan. People in Europe had been referring to it as India since the days of the Roman empire. And the story about "gente in Dios" is a fake story invented by a writer in 1984.
He's wrong about the term African-American, or at least wrong in that he doesn't understand WHY that phrase is used. Black people in the Americas are usually from slaves. They had their homes and ancestry ripped away and do not know where they came from. That is why the term is African, because they don't have a tribe or nation. If someone came from Egypt, then they are Egyptian-American, just like Irish-American. Because they know where they are from.
/explanation to the public, and the near constant attacks from right wing talking heads; the general public isn't aware of any of this. And Carlin just keeps up the ignorance. He wants to get his digs in to the liberals. Because he was part of the "liberal is a bad word" messaging of the 70's-90's. He's done a lot to "help" create our current conversation. Often with increasing voter apathy.
Also, labeling the Native/First Nations/Indian peoples can be complicated and it's better to just ask.
Only someone who isn't an American would say that. We have literal parades celebrating irish or mexican heritage. There have been hyphenated Americans for centuries. Other places might not like it nor understand but that's usually because their families can trace their heritage to the same place as they were raised. Everyone wants to have a piece of history so they feel like they belong. So until the hyphen goes away, you have to make it for everyone.
He was also wrong about the Indian/"in dios" thing. While India was named Hindustan at the time, the entire region was referred to as "India" or "The Indies". Columbus was specifically looking for The Indies and expected to find Indians.
Yeah, the more I've scrutinized Carlin's acts, the less I see of him as a visionary and more he just becomes a cynic who uses half truths to promote apathy.
I like these views on black vs. African American but I cant say Indians referring to native people. I get the idea but it now carries social weight, so i say native/indigenous or i refer to the specific tribe im talking about. But i also generally dont think about race outside a historic sense, for modern issues I refer to nationality or creed.
I don't like "Indian" because then we gotta work out which continent's peoples I'm talking about. I feel like the continent with the name in it's name should win.
Native American has the same energy as African American (and Latinx, for that matter). Using them obscures meaning *and* communicates, "I'd rather use the phrasing that makes *me* personally feel comfortable and assuages *my* guilty feelings, rather than phrasing that actually asks the people in question what they prefer."
I'm a white dude from Canada and I remember jumping up and pointing at the screen like the DiCaprio meme when I first saw that. It's 100% the truth. I get glares from other white progressive / left leaning people if I say Indian, which is the word I use with my one Indian friend. 🤷♂️
I agree it's good to be specific. I think also for black people they don't want slurs but have not regarded "black" as bad, whereas Indigenous people have been insulted by "Indian" the way the N word is insulting to blacks for a long time... I like your methods is what time saying lol
Carlin is wrong about the "in dios" Indian thing. 'India' was widely used at the time Columbus sailed for a south Asian region far bigger than modern India, based on Indus River, and Columbus did refer to Caribbean natives as 'Indians.'
I personally don't like using 'Indian' because I feel like I'm carrying on Columbus' hateful legacy, but I suppose I should leave it up to the people to decide how they'd like to be referred to.
If you think about it, you're giving him way more power and a lasting legacy by allowing him to control how you use language hundreds of years later.
Lots of people used the term colloquially who weren't Columbus, and today many actual Indians/Natives prefer the term Indian themselves while still hating Columbus.
It's anecdotal, but I worked with an Indian guy for awhile and I asked him his preference and his response was "I prefer Indian. Because I'm an Indian"
I call people by what they prefer to go by. I am white so I could obviously be wrong. But I do believe that the vast majority of natives prefer to be called "Indian Americans" not native Americans
Well meaning liberals came up with Latinx without asking and the Latino/ Latina community said, uh, no thanx . (Some Latin LGBT groups have proposed latine)
Similarly, I'm not a big fan of womxn. Trans women are women. Full stop. At least from my perspective, using "womxn" is still othering. Obviously, I can't speak for all women, so if someone likes "womxn" I'll use it for them, but personally, I don't like it.
Are you saying that English speakers created the latinx term? Because according to wikipedia, the term's first public use was in spanish language academic journals. The origins are unknown beyond that. Also, usage is increasing in various Hispanic groups. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do like to have a bit of honesty in discussions.
Is there a source that "well meaning libs" or "corpos" or anyone else came up with latinx? My understanding's that it was latins themselves, people who were sexual minorities, who came up with the term to try to remove gender from a gendered language. In Spanish a person is latino or latina, male or female. Latinx was an attempt to create a neutral term. Nothing "imposed" on anyone, other than the way sexual minorities are ALWAYS accused of "imposing their lifestyle". But maybe I'm wrong myself.
Its worse, the people who came with "Latinx" were big corpos trying to be 'inclusive' and thus adopted by well-meaning liberals who then proceeded to try to lecture us Latin-Americans about the 'correct way' to speak our own language. And they managed the impossible... They seriously pissed off Latinos. When you really piss off a Latino, you did something seriously wrong.
Corporate marketing (which it is tbh) dictates liberal thought and becomes implemented as limitations on language and other aspects of culture. This is because liberal progression does not stem from ideology, they don't have any vision for the future at all. It stems from the need to always represent equality. Because that gives them moral carte blanche to then also fully support The Market. It's free to everyone equally, and the proof is that nobody gets to call anyone the wrong thing.
I have no interest in debating you but you've made some sweeping claims characterizing the beliefs of a large swathe of the country and haven't provided a shred of supporting evidence. Further, if there's anything at all which is clear about us "US liberals" it's that we are not a monolith.
It's a Gish Gallop of nonsense that would take 10x the amount of effort to counter, especially considering how small Imgur comment blocks are. The reality is that you're just a propaganda flinging monkey. You've bought into the messaging that the GOP created in the 70's, Reagan pushed into the 80's, and Carlin/slacktivist-types have pushed ever since.
ItsJustBluskyandImgrNow
https://search.brave.com/ask?q=race+as+a+social+construct+not+a+biological+fact
The educated know there's no such thing as race, but in the context of which hominids were here/there first, in today's America's I use Indigenous when referring to ancestral North & South Americans.
https://search.brave.com/ask?q=ancestral+north+americans+and+ancestral+south+americans
grandfalloon
My thoughts? Carlin was a very intelligent man who was frequently full of shit. Some of these I agree with, but I'm not going to be lectured by a white man on how to use language about minorities. You know those quotes that people love to post on here, where he rants about the elite? Yeah, he was right about a lot of it. But do you know what his conclusion is? Give up. Don't vote. Just bitch and moan and don't work towards a solution.
disposabledom
https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1MGU1MWNtbnB5ZTNla2tvOHljYmxjYmxhdXJwNWdld3pmb3RtZ2lmdCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/RQMkfKODe8Okw/200w.webp
pickledpete1337
Why does it say "jeremy hambly" in the top left?
ImGoingToGoFallAsleepOnABench
Because some alt-right shitlord slapped his name over a George Carlin video and called it his.
pickledpete1337
wtf
Ardilla05
Love him but he is wrong on the etymology of “Indios”. It did come from the word “India” as evidenced in Juan de Torquemada’s “Monarquia Indiana.” What Carlin says about of “in Dios” is Spanglish. He means “en Dios”. Still live and miss that man but he stretched it a bit on this one. Probably the one time I disagree with this genius
SpaceMarineWithAnUrgeToPurge
Maybe find you clips from someone who isn't jumbly hambeast, aka the fucking quartering
diemajorthrilldie
Oh I'm sure he posted clip from about thirty years ago reviving outdated perspectives about an old argument from before decades of discourse about identity, language and ownership of words entirely in good faith.
(Hambly that is, I won't cast aspersions on op since not everyone is online enough to recognise that piece of shit's aliases)
beachbum273
"People of color" is nice to refer to all the people who get the shit end of things because they aren't white. Nowadays, anyway.
Feralkyn
Yeah it has drifted meaning considerably since this bit/clip.
idiotsonfire
I'm good with not calling First Nations people what CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS called them.
idiotsonfire
Also, the Quartering, Jeremy, is a FUCKING GODDAMN NAZI. He's admitted to holding fascist positions dozens of times.
wisher1977
God I miss this man!
HandoB4Javert
South African...
CommanderWes
I grew up with all of his 90s and 00s material. An absolute treasure. Much of my frustrations with how we act and interact in our society were described so eloquently by this man... I miss George Carlin. One if the greatest performers. He could entertain and make you think. WHEN WILL JESUS BRING THE PORKCHOPS
desalniettemin
His God comedy is legendary.
iMcFly
dghughes
Using "unhoused" instead of homeless is another term that's pointless. Some people get off on control. Slang words too slang is meant to exclude and make groups bond. Someone not knowing a slang term isn't wrong.
killergrooves85
Jeremy Hambly is a lowkey neo-Nazi white supremacist scumbag creep and also the most boring person on YouTube. Stop sharing his garbage that he stole and slapped his name on because he’s a wannabe slop king.
CodeWarrior
I'd be willing to bet that George Carlin would hate his guts if he were alive today. George had lots of anger and violence in his comedy, but he was a person who really wanted people to fucking just get along with one another.
idiotsonfire
He's not "lowkey" a Neo-Nazi. He's outright said that tenants of fascism sound really good on dozens of occasions.
killergrooves85
I mean lowkey in that he denies it. Highkey would be he openly says, “I am a Neo Nazi.”
FoamingToad
*tenets. Tenants is something entirely different.
idiotsonfire
Sucks I didn't catch that, but I can't edit comments on this moronic website.
faustian73
Hey Quartering, get your shit off of Imgur and go back to shilling your drop-shipped coffee.
darkchiron
Jeremy Hambly is a garbage right-wing grifter. He just slapped his name on this clip to try to make some money off Carlin's legacy because he has no creativity and will do anything for money.
DorkJedi
that is most certainly not Jeremy Hambly.
Caprittles
I think he kind of misses on native american but hes pretty spot on on black. One question that arises when you point out that "white people" do not exist, is the rebuttal of "but black people do?". White, is a nebulous term that never stays the same. Any definition given is most often bullshit. BLACK, on the other hand, is referencing an experience shared by many people, many of whom could not really point to their origin point on a map, for what should be obvious reasons.
tupacshomie
How do I save this on my phone?
barbarian818
Most blacks in American are called African Americans in an attempt to reinforce their existence as Americans. We don't call them Ghana Americans or South African Americans because their exact origin has been lost to time. We know precisely which ports they shipped from. But slavers collected inventory from a wide range of West African areas, And a black person today almost certainly has a genetic background from multiple tribes,
OhIfIMust
sadurdaynight
Patton Oswalt has a good bit where he says he wants to support lgbtq, liberal causes, etc, but he's getting old and can't keep up with the terminology. Then says the folks out to get you know the terminology, bc they use it to sound intelligent in their arguments they make against the people they hate. Meanwhile some schmoe on the street who doesn't know the terms is like "i don't care if two dykes want to bump tacos or two dudes want to slap sausage, it's not hurtin me none."
vodkaho
I don't know about the idea of everyone came from somewhere else, my understanding of humans on this planet is that human life basically came into existence in some part of Africa, and spread from there. By that light, every single living human being is an African-whatever. African European. African American. African Australian. In my mind, there's only one race. The human race. And we come at a bewildering and astonishing variety of sizes colors styles and so on.
sadurdaynight
This. But also human biology drives two factors: preserve the genetics that are working well while also trying to diversify the genetic code to make it better for changes. This duality bleeds into our psychology and sociology. It's why some folks are adamant about only breeding within their narrow idea of "race" while others feel driven to breed outside their society's idea of what their and others races are. The mindsets clash, esp before we globalized.
MarkTwainsMysteriousStranger
rossimus
Sure but that still means that everyone who doesn't live in Africa now came from someplace else; even if that someplace is the same place for everyone, depending on how far back you go.
hyperchondriac
While true, it glosses over a concept of the initial settling population, or first peoples. They may not be fully "native" in as much as homo sapiens species was initially native to the African continent, but we mean it as the descendents of the first populations of that tribe, to distinguish from colonists who arrived later and fought the first group off their land.
urusername2
He Was Always Good and true! I he was alive now, any network that aired him would be punished! And he would be ripping Rump up!!!
Sfingks
George actually got that fact about "Indians" very incorrect. The story about Columbus calling them Indians for any reason other than naming them after the nation of India is absolutely false. His claim that "India was called Hindustan" is also inaccurate. Only the middle east refered to it as Hindustan. People in Europe had been referring to it as India since the days of the Roman empire. And the story about "gente in Dios" is a fake story invented by a writer in 1984.
freshthrowaway1138
He's wrong about the term African-American, or at least wrong in that he doesn't understand WHY that phrase is used. Black people in the Americas are usually from slaves. They had their homes and ancestry ripped away and do not know where they came from. That is why the term is African, because they don't have a tribe or nation. If someone came from Egypt, then they are Egyptian-American, just like Irish-American. Because they know where they are from.
Of course, due to the lack of proper /
freshthrowaway1138
/explanation to the public, and the near constant attacks from right wing talking heads; the general public isn't aware of any of this. And Carlin just keeps up the ignorance. He wants to get his digs in to the liberals. Because he was part of the "liberal is a bad word" messaging of the 70's-90's. He's done a lot to "help" create our current conversation. Often with increasing voter apathy.
Also, labeling the Native/First Nations/Indian peoples can be complicated and it's better to just ask.
Haemaelaeinen
You are all fucking Americans. Not African or Irish or anything else.
freshthrowaway1138
Only someone who isn't an American would say that. We have literal parades celebrating irish or mexican heritage. There have been hyphenated Americans for centuries. Other places might not like it nor understand but that's usually because their families can trace their heritage to the same place as they were raised. Everyone wants to have a piece of history so they feel like they belong. So until the hyphen goes away, you have to make it for everyone.
cheidiotou
He was also wrong about the Indian/"in dios" thing. While India was named Hindustan at the time, the entire region was referred to as "India" or "The Indies". Columbus was specifically looking for The Indies and expected to find Indians.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controversy
freshthrowaway1138
Yeah, the more I've scrutinized Carlin's acts, the less I see of him as a visionary and more he just becomes a cynic who uses half truths to promote apathy.
Trueshadowspawn
I like these views on black vs. African American but I cant say Indians referring to native people. I get the idea but it now carries social weight, so i say native/indigenous or i refer to the specific tribe im talking about. But i also generally dont think about race outside a historic sense, for modern issues I refer to nationality or creed.
abrubtopinion
I don't like "Indian" because then we gotta work out which continent's peoples I'm talking about. I feel like the continent with the name in it's name should win.
portmanteau
It might help to ask the Indians themselves, like CGP Grey did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh88fVP2FWQ
Native American has the same energy as African American (and Latinx, for that matter). Using them obscures meaning *and* communicates, "I'd rather use the phrasing that makes *me* personally feel comfortable and assuages *my* guilty feelings, rather than phrasing that actually asks the people in question what they prefer."
CaptainScarfish
I'm a white dude from Canada and I remember jumping up and pointing at the screen like the DiCaprio meme when I first saw that. It's 100% the truth. I get glares from other white progressive / left leaning people if I say Indian, which is the word I use with my one Indian friend. 🤷♂️
YouAreTheInsultMaster
I have a lot of people whose families were originally from India in my social and work circles so that would become incredibly confusing.
swofromtherock
Why? Are you referring to people's race that often?
juliakitten112
I agree it's good to be specific. I think also for black people they don't want slurs but have not regarded "black" as bad, whereas Indigenous people have been insulted by "Indian" the way the N word is insulting to blacks for a long time... I like your methods is what time saying lol
Perkunas687
Carlin is wrong about the "in dios" Indian thing. 'India' was widely used at the time Columbus sailed for a south Asian region far bigger than modern India, based on Indus River, and Columbus did refer to Caribbean natives as 'Indians.'
I personally don't like using 'Indian' because I feel like I'm carrying on Columbus' hateful legacy, but I suppose I should leave it up to the people to decide how they'd like to be referred to.
rossimus
If you think about it, you're giving him way more power and a lasting legacy by allowing him to control how you use language hundreds of years later.
Lots of people used the term colloquially who weren't Columbus, and today many actual Indians/Natives prefer the term Indian themselves while still hating Columbus.
Recaffeinated
It's anecdotal, but I worked with an Indian guy for awhile and I asked him his preference and his response was "I prefer Indian. Because I'm an Indian"
stayme
I think it’s specific Nation not tribe
MattoJanai
I call people by what they prefer to go by. I am white so I could obviously be wrong. But I do believe that the vast majority of natives prefer to be called "Indian Americans" not native Americans
salunatics
Well meaning liberals came up with Latinx without asking and the Latino/ Latina community said, uh, no thanx . (Some Latin LGBT groups have proposed latine)
Efreeti
For a while I thought the way to pronounce "latinx" out loud was "latine"
SalmySwims
Similarly, I'm not a big fan of womxn. Trans women are women. Full stop. At least from my perspective, using "womxn" is still othering. Obviously, I can't speak for all women, so if someone likes "womxn" I'll use it for them, but personally, I don't like it.
Anarchduke
how does someone even pronounce womxn? whim-ex-an? whim-zen?
SalmySwims
No idea, tbh
freshthrowaway1138
Are you saying that English speakers created the latinx term? Because according to wikipedia, the term's first public use was in spanish language academic journals. The origins are unknown beyond that. Also, usage is increasing in various Hispanic groups. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do like to have a bit of honesty in discussions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx
aeroldoth
Is there a source that "well meaning libs" or "corpos" or anyone else came up with latinx? My understanding's that it was latins themselves, people who were sexual minorities, who came up with the term to try to remove gender from a gendered language. In Spanish a person is latino or latina, male or female. Latinx was an attempt to create a neutral term. Nothing "imposed" on anyone, other than the way sexual minorities are ALWAYS accused of "imposing their lifestyle". But maybe I'm wrong myself.
vilikke
"Latine" is unfortunately just one letter away from "latrine"
samwyze
Such a beautiful name.
ElChupaNuggra
Used to be Shithouse!
Skullwriter
Its worse, the people who came with "Latinx" were big corpos trying to be 'inclusive' and thus adopted by well-meaning liberals who then proceeded to try to lecture us Latin-Americans about the 'correct way' to speak our own language. And they managed the impossible... They seriously pissed off Latinos. When you really piss off a Latino, you did something seriously wrong.
freshthrowaway1138
Not quite true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx
NinjaCongo
Corporate marketing (which it is tbh) dictates liberal thought and becomes implemented as limitations on language and other aspects of culture. This is because liberal progression does not stem from ideology, they don't have any vision for the future at all. It stems from the need to always represent equality. Because that gives them moral carte blanche to then also fully support The Market. It's free to everyone equally, and the proof is that nobody gets to call anyone the wrong thing.
freshthrowaway1138
Wow, that's a lot of anti-liberal propaganda. You're definitely an American who doesn't understand the actual usage of the word, liberal.
NinjaCongo
You can call my analysis propaganda if you like, but can you refute what I write?
howaboutnevernow
I have no interest in debating you but you've made some sweeping claims characterizing the beliefs of a large swathe of the country and haven't provided a shred of supporting evidence. Further, if there's anything at all which is clear about us "US liberals" it's that we are not a monolith.
freshthrowaway1138
It's a Gish Gallop of nonsense that would take 10x the amount of effort to counter, especially considering how small Imgur comment blocks are. The reality is that you're just a propaganda flinging monkey. You've bought into the messaging that the GOP created in the 70's, Reagan pushed into the 80's, and Carlin/slacktivist-types have pushed ever since.