McSteroids
440133
10805
707
The Birdcage
All credit to Adam Zyglis of the Buffalo News
This is my first post ever so I apologise if I've fucked up on formatting or anything like that. And before anybody says anything mean I don't necessarily agree with every one of these but I thought they were worth sharing.
Sauce:
https://thenib.com/this-year-s-pulitzer-prize-winning-editorial-cartoons-7e22ac95d07a
FP EDIT: I know these are not so cool but this was my first ever post so thank you :) Also everyone is screaming bloody murder about the 77c one in the comments because the stats are usually taken out of context, as I said I don't agree with all of these and yeah they're gonna be a bit opinnated they are political cartoons
HardcoreHeathen
The FCC one is just...stupid? That's literally the exact opposite of what the FCC ruling means.
HardcoreHeathen
Update: So apparently I didn't check the dates on the comic. My bad!
FurryFoxBoy
It's dated image, talking about when internet was a business that could be regulated by ISPs via throttling and pay-for-lanes by big 1/2
FurryFoxBoy
companies. Notice how the big car is taking up more of the street than the smaller car? it's hinting at throttling or bandwidth control.
greatbrono7
It may depend on when that comic came out. Early reports indicated that the FCC was considering allowing it. It could also be what would
Keru
I think it actually came out after the "The Cartoonist Has No Idea How Net Neutrality Works" edits came out, which is just extra funny.
CitizenDickbag
The cartoon was made before the FCC ruling. Until then, most experts expected them to side with the telecomm companies.
HardcoreHeathen
Ahhh, that makes sense. Didn't see the date.
SugarSmack
The guy represented in the cartoon is Tom Wheeler, the head of the FCC who was previously a lobbyist for the cable and wireless industry.1/2
SugarSmack
Under Wheeler, the FCC began considering promulgating rules allowing Internet service providers (ISPs) to violate net neutrality principles.
itsalllikeshinyupinhere
Just in case anyone doesn't know, Robin Williams played a gay man in a film title The Birdcage in 1996.
imtiredofthinkingupaccounts
actually a really good movie. The other lead in that is the gay wedding planner on Modern Family
TheSixthNumber
Nathan Lane, AKA Timon
TheSixthNumber
Nathan Lane, AKA Timon
GodEmperorOfImgur
#4 is still a gross misinterpretation of data to the point of willful ignorance towards the facts.
IndianaIsWeird
Most of these fucking things are. Tort reform could save BILLIONS of dollars. The cartoonist is not all that bright....
MrBananaBeak
FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, EDUCATED PERSONS IN THE 15TH CENTURY DID NOT THINK THE EARTH WAS FLAT. FUCK.
IReallyJustWantToSeeHowLongOfAUsernameICanHave
I don't don't think I've ever heard of anyone vehemently denying the existence of gravity.
megamek
That cartoon isn't about educated people.
TrijezniMujo
#10 hits hard.
IndianaIsWeird
I think because it's the truest one of them all
drGrafenberg
Satire is more fun without total disregard of facts.
MrBananaBeak
People didn't think the fucking Earth was flat in the 15th century. That myth drives me fucking batshit.
icelaw
Like Imgur is, more fun when in total disregard of any facts or the other side in any two-sided story.
thefatlonelyjew
i'm going to send this man a dictionary with all of the pages except for the one containing "subtlety" cut out
Sasarious
Him :
catsanddogs69
Wouldn't it be easier to just cut out that page and send it? Or is that a little heavy handed?
Mewmus
has someone ever successfully persuaded someone to change their political view point by yelling at them?
calldrdaley
Once I convinced a person that an acorn was better than a red boat. I think I'd make a great politician.
Mewmus
...i dont understand the references
calldrdaley
The point was that I was agreeing with you
Mewmus
ahh, ok, phew... had me worried there for a second :)
zhebrica
Am I the only one that cringes at political cartoons? They're always so beat-you-over-the-head obvious and oversimplified.
shouldbecookin
Totally!
JasonD
77 cents can't melt steel beams
HappyColdCut
Id like to say, it's not just the Rebuplicans who are fucking up big time, it's every single person in congress, they're all the same.
necpmf
#11 Makes no sense. He's being beaten up by the government, shouldn't he be agreeing with the guy?
megamek
Local cops aren't "big" government.
violetpolkadots
"before anybody says anything mean" ...bless your heart
alchemist12345
Meh, among all the edgy ones I'd have mentioned this one too:
Anonymoooose
Why is this on the front page with 160 points? Most of these comics are based on lies as well.
jalex1215
Roddit because roddit
ToastyMozart
Do people seriously still not understand how Imgur works?
IReallyJustWantToSeeHowLongOfAUsernameICanHave
I actually don't. How is it determined what's on the front page?
ToastyMozart
Either it's submitted to User Sub and reaches a certain number of upvotes on Imgur, or it's hosted here and reaches the front page of Reddit
IReallyJustWantToSeeHowLongOfAUsernameICanHave
Thanks!
SomePeopleSayThatCucumbersTasteBetterPickled
this is some high quality bullshit right here
jerichodarkstar
Just need to say that Greek mathematician Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth accurately 2300 years ago.. (1/2)
jerichodarkstar
Almost nobody believed the earth was flat in the 15th Century. It was an outdated idea even then. (2/2)
DamnedAustin
Say it with me now, "Satire"
pipsohip
I'm pretty sure I've been seeing that global warming one for years. Not to mention two of its four panels aren't true.
ThePickle
Oh, at least two
DevonGronka
The evolution one isn't either; people generally accepted that adaptation happened for a long time before Darwin; he just answered 1/2
DevonGronka
the how and why. The whole creationist crap didn't really start up until the 1900s; most people accepted that dinos were a long time ago.
DamnedAustin
It's fucking satire showing how ridiculous people are who use the fact that we've had cold winters as "evidence" against climate change
DevonGronka
The other centuries, though- adaptation was known to happen and accepted in the 1800s. No one really thought the earth was flat. I'm not 1/2
DevonGronka
aware of anyone notable arguing against gravity because of birds. the whole YEC crap didn't really start until this century.
DamnedAustin
I don't think he's going for historical accuracy, just pointing out how ridiculous the argument is in the first place. Some of the best (1/2
DamnedAustin
political cartoons use a little bit of familiar fiction to paint a picture of the topic at hand. Ridiculousness to the point of absurdity2/2
pipsohip
Well that was certainly a far more passionate response than my comment called for.
DamnedAustin
I'm a passionate guy. I (probably) didn't mean any disrespect to you. Other comments got me heated.
pipsohip
I was mostly just pointing out that I'm pretty sure that one isn't from this year.
DamnedAustin
I'll allow it. *gavel slam*
JPre35
climate changing takes 1000s of years...the facts are the fact its getting warmer faster than expected..but dont call it climate change yet
DamnedAustin
We have fairly conclusive evidence that humans have caused climate change at an accelerated rate. 97% of climate experts are probably right.
JPre35
again not denying that.. but a 0.8 degree C increase from 1880 is not a change in the climate, yet. ..notice the yet
DamnedAustin
True, but it's also not strictly just warmer temperatures. It's the general fucking up of the climate, which isn't always a matter of temps.
DamnedAustin
True, but it's also not strictly just warmer temperatures. It's the general fucking up of the climate, which isn't always a matter of temps.
amandil
you can't use the past as precedent in this case, anthropogenic climate change is far faster than anything previous
JPre35
what? yes you have to.. and there is no way to confirm your second statement. no direct data...only indirect aka core samples
amandil
no, we're in a situation that has never occurred before so of course you can't use precedent you can use it as a guide but not a rule
amandil
and it is provable simply by looking at current data temperatures are rising extremely quickly, weather changes etc there is so much
amandil
evidence out there that what you're saying genuinely makes me so angry
MilDravin
so..one artist won everything?
McSteroids
I don't fully understand how the prize is given but I think one artist wins based on a collection of their work
BitchButcher
No, that 1 artist only won 99%.
Sagethyme
'The editorial cartoons of the this year’s Pulitzer prize winner.' would probably have been the most clear title.
JLS95
Political cartoons are some of the most misleading, biased, and outright stupid piece of propaganda conceived by man.
ShamnusMcfee
Somebody is salty.
JLS95
*pieces*
violetpolkadots
They are jokes, they're allowed to be misleading and stupid if they make you smile/laugh
OriginalSandman
Except people *do* take them seriously and believe them. It's fine if it's a joke but too many people consider an honest reflection of life
calldrdaley
Satire is a powerful form of persuasion.
Sasarious
No everything must be super cereal around here.
violetpolkadots
Apparently
justahumanbeing
But all of these are accurate except the .77 women wage one doe
drew2057
to be fair #14 didn't wind up turning out that way... Thanks Obama!
TheSlugtopus
... Yea... You keep thinking that...
StephanieWasTheTrueVillainOfLazyTown
The fight isn't over yet.
mcof
Nor will it ever be. Something about freedom and vigilance.
rvleshrac
Obama still opposes Net Neutrality, he just opposes it in a slightly different way.
tomyironmane
I don't like much of his policy decisions and wouldn't trust him further than I can spit. And the internet ain't won yet.
zeroJive
SaltatSobrius
TresusIbor
This needs a Pulitzer!
zeroJive
This. This is fucking awesome. You need to shamelessly repost it.
TGWeaver
I don't know, the way it's presented, it almost feels like that's one of many political cartoons trying to paint Net Neutrality as a threat.
notme222
Obviously. Look how different the internet is now than 6 months ago!
idontreallydomucharoundhere
yeah this one confused me too... I was like didn't they decide on keeping equal Internets
pr0nty
Yeah, but the corporations against it are just trying to overturn it now. There's still work to be done.
johnvictor
Have to realize that these were all created when the topic at the time was relevant to it and don't survive time well.
TOASTEngineer
Unfortunately the whole "net neutrality" thing was pretty much just pure propaganda. Try Googling for "net neutrality criticism" or whatever
idontreallydomucharoundhere
They only point they made is that regulations will gum up the works... but thats a lot better than the alternative
pmmeyourtitsforpuns
I don't understand that one. Also, the net neutrality issue isn't over; they're still trying hard to undermine it. TPP for one thing.
pgdave
It was written when the FCC was opposing net neutrality.
tropicalblizzards
Would you mind explaining?
themanwith1spoon
basically they're just sneaking in through another channel with the TPP deal
pmmeyourtitsforpuns
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1qzwsm/after_the_wikileaks_release_what_is_the_tpp_we/ Idk enough but this has info
drew2057
Ya I know it's not over, but I actually have hope about it now
WedoWedo
New head of FCC was former ISP lobbyist, hence the comic. Comic was drawn when everyone hated him, before he classified ISP's as Title II.
halfanangrybadger
I don't see what Twitch Plays Pokemon has to do with net neutrality tbh
Pornegranate
No he's talking about thiamine pyrophosphate, a vitamin B1 derivative.
RetConMan
You will when it costs $10 to see it.
ZapTap
Well then I'll not see it they can go fuck themselves lol
Millillion
But the problem is that it wouldn't be TPP or even Twitch wanting to charge for it.
BrokenZen
They're trying to distract us while they ruin our internets!
AllForOneAndOneForAll
For anyone who wants to know, the TPP is the Trans Pacific Partnership
saynt614
Man... that one about Saddam and ISIS gave me the chills
sixteenbottlesintheowlery
Me too.
ashleypomeroy
That put me off. Not because of the message but because the cartoonist drew ISIS on the snakes, as if we were too stupid to get it otherwise
Ihazcheeseburger
I think ISIS relates far more to Gaddafi than Saddam.
TheOwlWBU
Basing that on what? Before ISIS gave themselves that name, they were AQI, before that JTJ, the "insurgents" in Iraq.
SpeakerToMeat
Isis is the flower of the Arab spring
IndianaIsWeird
the blizzard of the Arab Winter I think
IndianaIsWeird
the blizzard of the Arab Winter I think
wannabeblue
Winters coming?
raidleadergutts
It's been here for a while I think.
YourNewBoss
There's a storm coming, Mr. Wayne. You and your friends better batten down the hatches.
voltrondefenderofthemotherfuckinguniverse
These seem to be a little one sided!
oasisamid
Wait.. Wait.. Are you actually trying to tell us that someone from the media is biased?
voltrondefenderofthemotherfuckinguniverse
Never! Media Biased? Poppy Cot!
TheHypestShit
I don't know if you follow the cartoonist's other work, but he's fairly critical of Obama and the Democrats too.
IndianaIsWeird
For being "too right wing". Not even kidding
McSteroids
Well I guess the guy has to support whatever stance the Buffalo News has, and news agencies do seem to take stances rather often
voltrondefenderofthemotherfuckinguniverse
Job Security
realitycheckdan
Probably because 99% of conservative editorial cartoons are penned by racist, sexist, unbelievably crass assholes.
voltrondefenderofthemotherfuckinguniverse
But, you're always a racist, sexist, unbelievably crass assholes if you don't agree with everyone option and sometimes the truth hurts!
imgurfacepalm
I forgot that if disagree with the Democratic party you are automatically a "racist, sexist, unbelievably crass asshole"
secondbest
You're clearly from an adversarial political system.
voltrondefenderofthemotherfuckinguniverse
Very much so! What are you guys doing that working?
voltrondefenderofthemotherfuckinguniverse
that's
jsktrogdor
1/3 There's a logical fallacy where people think that just because there are two sides of a disagreement, both deserve equal treatment even
jsktrogdor
2/3 when one is factually and realistically more in line with what evidence supports. People think there's a left-wing bias in the media.
jsktrogdor
3/3 In reality, Americans have a bias slightly to the right of how the world really is. The media is just more in line with reality.
Savagesquelsch
You make some good points.
UncleJonathonsCornCobPipe
So you're saying editorial cartoons contain opinions? Weird!
voltrondefenderofthemotherfuckinguniverse
I know!!!! My mind was blown too!
UnpopularOpinionPuffinPersonified
No, he's saying editorial cartoons seem to contain AN opinion. Hence the "one sided".
DamnedAustin
I mean, only one of these is really controversial (Wage Gap) The rest are pretty grounded in reality.
ThePickle
Only if you share the same bias
DamnedAustin
*sigh* Ok. 1. Depression is a serious disease that doesn't get nearly enough recognition in this country. 2. Domestic violence is a real
DamnedAustin
has ignored/rejected any kind of progress. 13. The GOP has rejected widely accepted evidence of climate change and has turned the issue into
DamnedAustin
are being treated the worst by the government. 12. The GOP has an outdated agenda when it comes to dealing with immigration from Mexico and
DamnedAustin
was not put in place after the Iraq war, now we have issues. 11. The people screaming loudest about government abuse are not the ones who
DamnedAustin
Corporations have more and more power over laws in this country, even being given rights as people. 10. A sufficient government structure
DamnedAustin
less wealthy. 15. People completely misunderstand what climate change means. 16. CNN has lost their goddamn minds. 17. Adults in this
DamnedAustin
has not made good on his promises to leave the M.E. 6. Putin has been clinging to a leadership style reminiscent of the U.S.S.R. 7. Money is
DamnedAustin
country are willing (and excited) to give children access to firearms at younger and younger ages. Like I said, all but one of these are not
DamnedAustin
a purely political endeavor. 14. The FCC nearly made it possible for ISP giants like Comcast to restrict the Internet for those who are less
DamnedAustin
often enough for large corporations to stay in business when they've done something horrible to the public. 8. Money can buy politicians. 9.
DamnedAustin
all that controversial.
ThePickle
And like I said, only if you share the same bias.
DamnedAustin
Also, I'm welcome to messages if you really want to discuss this buy hate character limits like I do. (one bias I definitely have)
DamnedAustin
Please explain how these are incorrect. Or explain to me where I've been biased. You don't even have to do them all. Try doing 4 or 5.
DamnedAustin
problem in the NFL. 3. Our basic privacy is being eroded by large corporations and the government. 4. Yeah, pretty controversial. 5. Obama
TheKnowing1
Just a bit, especially since the women earning 77% of what men earned has been thoroughly debunked.
MotherOfFlagons
I'm so glad people are realizing this
cheers2insanity
It's not debunked and bias isn't a bad thing for fucks sake what do you want a cartoon to be just two people standing on either side of 1/2
jsktrogdor
Not necessarily debunked, just shown to be affected by a huge variety of factors, sexism not necessarily being one of them.
Treblaine
Factors almost entirely (down to 0.1%) down to things women have total control over.
TheKnowing1
In the context they're using, it's been debunked. When comparing apples to apples, the discrepancies fall within the statistical MoE.
jsktrogdor
I'd agree with that.
reveen
Brian: haha, yes! Ahh that oughta wake people up. Stewie: shuuut the fuck up
terrygotbutt4days
I thought of the same line after seeing 3 of these
MAHEREX
FYI: potato http://youtu.be/pacdFrzmRx4
AureliaVerity
wow, that is the potatoest potato that ever potatoed.
BitchButcher
Brian is my spirit animal.
ShitSampleFiend
Your spirit animal is a douche. Funny, but a douche...
BitchButcher
That would explain all the downvotes but I still adore him. It's eloquence not douchiness.
AlduinWorldEater
Read in Stewie's voice. +1
aShogunNamedMarcus
Fun fact: this cartoonist went to a college whose mascot is Petey the Griffin
FoodInMyManChu
Idontbelieveyou.gif
aShogunNamedMarcus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Zyglis
FoodInMyManChu
I'll be damned. But did the name come before or after Family Guy?
FoodInMyManChu
I'll be damned. But did the name come before or after Family Guy?
ObscureStarWarsReference
Well, wiki says it's named for a saint. But the timeline is suspicious... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petey_(mascot)
iamstreetsahead
When asked what the name of the mascot should be, the president of the college saw a pea and a cup to tea shortly after. "Pea-Tea."
slagath0r
Glorious
Harrymon
Favourited just for that comment
Mattmelchert
Wouldn't the person being beaten by government employees not want big government? Did I misunderstand that, or is it stupid?
bolbis
It is called irony: the people complaining the most about big government are the blindest to where big government is really abusing citizens
calldrdaley
I found that one odd too. I guess they're saying bigger government would help with racism..? Definite stretch.
DamnedAustin
People who tend to speak out about big government aren't really the ones who are getting treated the worst by the government.
calldrdaley
Shouldn't the people getting treated the worst by the government want to talk out against it the most?
DamnedAustin
See Baltimore. (The thousands who are peacefully protesting, not the criminal rioters.) People are speaking out against the government 1/2
DamnedAustin
but not all of them are given the same media platforms as privileged people who think that government aid is a sign of over-sized government
calldrdaley
Makes sense. There are better ways to scale back those programs without simply cutting their funding.
DamnedAustin
I agree with you there! Still, most arguments against Big Government are kinda ridiculous by comparison.
JimNeverHasASecondCupOfCoffeeAtHome
I get the impression this guy isn't a GOP'er
GarydosOak
That 77cents crap again. Do no westerners understand basic economics?
Alozar
Please don't judge us all by the idiocy of those among us.
dorkdiggler
Do....whatever you are...understand social context?
kmaz
I like pie. Can I have my free pie now?
jalex1215
Politics doesn't care for facts
BitchButcher
Economics in Westeros isn't really that complicated.
IndianaIsWeird
I'm starting to think no
treadwords
That 77 cents thing has been done to death: at least since the 80's.
favdumpthrowaway
And just watch, next year US will get Hillary as a president because bullshit like "1-in-5 women are domestic rape paygap violence victims"
TheManyMadMasks
You said a negative thing about Hilary. Clearly you hate all women. Clearly.
MagicSpaceMan
I don't know how to feel about this race. I haven't done any research on Hillary yet so I can't really make a verdict
professionalhorsemasturbater
Sad people are still stupid enough to believe that :/
raccoonslovealex
We'll stop whining when women are paid equally.
treadwords
Women will be "paid equally" when they work the same hours as men, choose the same fields as men and make the same choices. Do some research
raccoonslovealex
Aww that's so cute if only it were that easy. People choose jobs they want to do, but often aren't selected. Either because of race or sex.
treadwords
N'aww and you think that the evil patriarchy is the reason why women choose different choices, in general, than men? Go to your safe space.
ragekritz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM
3stag
srs question, why don't businesses only hire women if they get paid less? Would save money no?
WhyShouldILoveYou
Well, for one I've noticed the cleaning business is predominantly staffed by women and that usually has notoriously shit wages.
3stag
I've noticed that farm hands are predominately staffed by men and talk about low wages.
gor3beard
I find this so funny because I've worked jobs and made more than most of the men around me While they make min wage.
treadwords
You couldn't be anymore right: it's not that women are paid less than men - they EARN less due to working less hours on less lucrative jobs.
3stag
I figured, its made out to be you pay a guy $10 and a woman $7.50, if that were true and ppl got away with it why not only hire women lol
treadwords
All it takes is pure common-sense, though it's so widespread because of its emotional appeal. Please check out Christina Hoff Sommers.
ilovecake
I've had the same/more experience than male peers, but they would get higher pay (by at least $3 more hourly) & way more PTO.
treadwords
Well if you're so confident then you should have a pretty solid legal case to prosecute the employer. Good luck.
treadwords
Well if you're so confident then you should have a pretty solid legal case to prosecute the employer. Good luck.
ilovecake
This was at a job AGES ago, but even now there's still that difference. I'm not a litigious person, though.
treadwords
There are legitimate reasons as to why the gender pay gap between women exist.
ilovecake
No. There is no reason why one gender should be paid more than the other for the same position and duties.
PaintedSlate
It's interesting to see how this is changing, with the raw gap narrowing and being explained in better ways...yet the discourse is constant.
USD1
It's to draw votes.
InterruptingA10
pathos before logos.
treadwords
It is has a strong emotional appeal; plus there is a vested interest in some to maintain the myth to gratify their righteousness and appeal.
PaintedSlate
Emotional appeal is overpowered in politics, in general.
treadwords
Unfortunately.
MagicSpaceMan
Most of politics IS emotional appeal, in all seriousness
PaintedSlate
Yep, cause and effect.
MagicSpaceMan
Its also been pretty vigorously disproved.
YouCantKeepJetpackingAwayFromYourProblemsBrian
I'm confused, I thought there was a big lawsuit over it (Lily Ledbetter I think?), what happened?
treadwords
Oh God don't even get me started on that -_-
xtuga2x
Its already been disproven so I'm curious how you could even try to prove the opposite.
treadwords
No no I meant on how ridiculous people still believe that there is a gender pay gap. I actually explained it on one of my responses.
maddogg2216
This issue is one of my biggest pet peeves. When people bring it up I legit get mad and then link to a 140ish page report to disprove them.
override367
there is a gender pay gap, of between 3 and 7 cents on the dollar, almost entirely explained by salary negotiations (eg: women don't ask)
C0l1E3N
Sauce?
dorkdiggler
Counter-Sauce: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf
MagicSpaceMan
It might take me a bit to find sources but I'll find a few.
GrannyGumjob
Google "scholarly journals on wage gap" or something of the sort.
ragekritz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM
MagicSpaceMan
Sorry they tend to be really biased towards the right, so I'm trying to find more neutral sources.
dorkdiggler
I disagree with a lot of the points extrapolated from the studies, but I greatly appreciate the effort you made for political neutrality.
Mistruths
A vast majority of studies fail to take into account that men simply work more than women do, or other stupid false equivalencies.
xTheMaestro
And to prioritize work over family and health. Men are generally more likely to sacrifice quality of life for respect at work.
dorkdiggler
Men are also *encouraged* by our society to prioritize work over family and health. Gender bias is at work, just not the way people think.
USD1
doesn't account for experience, education, and a whole slew of other factors that when accounted for wipe out the gap entirely.
neuromonic
Not true, any study that didn't account for exp, edu, job type, and position in addition to anslew of other factors wouldn't get published.
USD1
Uh huh.
neuromonic
I suggest you actually read one of the studies linked above and look at the math before you make up your mind.
MagicSpaceMan
Here's a decent one. http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-77-cent-exaggeration/
TheWizardOfRoz
Thank you for posting a more legitimate source than a YouTube video and opinion column. I did not know it was a myth but it still seems 1/2
MagicSpaceMan
Here is the labor department's official report from 2010 http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswom2010.pdf
MagicSpaceMan
This one says 81 cents, but still doesn't control for types of jobs worked, which is pretty important.
neuromonic
It absolutely does control for occupation and position. In table 2 you can see that male ceo's make 1949+-58/wk and women make 11598+-100
[deleted]
[deleted]
treadwords
It would be fixed if women worked the same hours as men, chose the same education and jobs as men; yet they make different choices.
[deleted]
[deleted]
treadwords
Well if you're so confident about that then you seem to have a pretty strong case legally to prosecute your employer. Good luck ;)
[deleted]
[deleted]
wwtwo
Really.. Out of the huge corporations you pick on tiny hobby lobby..
avidatheist
Probably because of the SCOTUS case involving them.
magneticgumby
You mean these cartoons have deeper meanings than surface value?!
ilostmyoldusername
It's because of the "corporations are people and have religious freedom" aspect of the case.
ilostmyoldusername
er the case where the supreme court said was a violation of Hobby Lobby's religious freedom to make them give birth control to employees
ghr2
Don't the people who run/own the corporation have rights?
ilostmyoldusername
I didn't say they didn't. Was just explaining why Hobby Lobby.
nihilityfarce
I'm not sympathetic, a lot of people (like me) need birth control for medical reasons but they don't give a shit because oh no, sex.
MrNotAnonymous
What happened to "Keep the government out of my bedroom"? Because If you want the government out of your bedroom, why would you want (1/2)
MrNotAnonymous
the government to enforce your employer to pay for the activities in your bedroom?
nihilityfarce
What's most frustrating about this debate is you can specifically say it's for medical reasons and people still argue back about the bedroom
nihilityfarce
Specifically my reproductive organs decide to destroy themselves in the most painful way possible when I'm not on birth control.
MrNotAnonymous
They have the right to choose their own policies. Just like you have the right to not work for a company that you disagree with.
nihilityfarce
I said medical reasons. I want the insurance I pay for or work for to cover my important medication like it would for any other medication.
MrNotAnonymous
I was also going to mention that they do pay for contraception, but that point has already been brought up.
atleastIwasnt36
It was referring to Hobby Lobby trying to deny birth control under the new healthcare law. It was pointing more to that specific event
ghr2
Deny how?
atleastIwasnt36
Because the owners are catholic, they didn't want to pay for birth control under the new healthcare law, so they sued.
ghr2
Are they not allowed to use their own money to pay for it?
wwtwo
And it's not about global warming ignorant retards it's about whether or not it will end the world.
wwtwo
And more times then not conservatives say no and liberals say yes, that's where the debate starts.
illegalacorn
What if global warming is just a hoax, and we create a better world for nothing?
IndianaIsWeird
Refusing to use nuclear energy in no way creates a better world. It creates a more expensive one though....
illegalacorn
Nuclear is a green option. Opponents of nuclear are pants-on-head retarded. It's the only option that makes sense to replace coal.
illegalacorn
Nuclear is a green option. Opponents of nuclear are pants-on-head retarded. It's the only option that makes sense to replace coal.
IndianaIsWeird
I dunno know how "green" it is, that term is pretty flawed. Other than that....yeah I agree
axelasdf
Bullets and Burgers sounds awesome. And kids SHOULD know about guns, and how to respect them. Also, if you have kids around,secure your guns
Izob
Only because people use them irresponsibly. Would be better if guns were kept away from kids - like a gun range where there is supervision.
AGiantTransWoman
Tons of gun ranges have classes for kids. Even the firearm convention that goes on around here does. That one is free, too.
ArdentSlacker
Worth a shot.
odamanda
Or do it like the rest of the civilized world: get rid of widespread firearms. Well, I guess it's too late anyway. Enjoy your gun violence.
axelasdf
Yes. There is more gun violence where there are guns. Very astute.
maurisasanchez
my parents taught me to respect guns at a very young age. when i was old enough they took me shooting. i was never curious or had access 1/2
maurisasanchez
to guns, which i feel was best. curiosity from kids and improper storage/handling leads to accidents... 2/2
BuildHerACakeOrSomething
I was taught about gun safety and shot a gun under adult supervision as a child. Then I really knew how important the rules were.
deedub711
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSBgh__Yv2Q This is the incident that comic is referring to. Very sad.
ArklemKilo
The instructor messed up and didn't take safely percations which sadly cost him his life. Kid shouldnt have had that weapon either.
mwahz
What??! Why would any child HAVE to know about guns? The amount of gun related violence revolving around children in America is ridiculous.
axelasdf
They should know to respect them so if they do come across them later in life they go in informed and safe.
dirtywildlifer
Teaching anyone how to shoot a gun also teaches them how to safely use a gun.
BrainBlow
No it doesn't, evidently.
AGiantTransWoman
It does, it's not about if they know or don't know how to use a gun as to /how/ they use it. Completely different.
habi816
Uses the word "evidently". Shows no counterexample.
gunterleeds
I think I see what you're trying to say, but I'm not quite with you. Teaching someone to safely use a gun teaches them to safely use a gun.
MyxlPlyxl
At my local schools they teach kids about gun safety.
chundricles
Step one : don't point at your face
OriginalSandman
What state are you in? I must move there
MyxlPlyxl
It's Massachusetts. I wasn't aware they didn't teach that to kids elsewhere. Here they learn what to do with a gun if they see one and (1/2)
MyxlPlyxl
to never bring one to school or pick it up and to overall be very careful around anything remotely dangerous.(2/2)
OriginalSandman
school is when I briefly drew a handgun in ms paint in 4th grade and got reamed out by my teacher
MyxlPlyxl
I had always heard stories of kids being reprimanded for doing anything gun related and thought it was crazy. But to not teach about them1/2
OriginalSandman
Oh. Isn't MA hardcore liberal? If so that's really surprising to me they'd teach that there. The only experience I've ever had with a gun in
AGiantTransWoman
Good, even if they don't ever use them or like them, they should know what to do and what not to do.
TheNonInsestuousJaime
When I turned 16 I asked my dad for a car for my birthday, he refused on the grounds that it's to dangerous, he gave a gun instead...
FeralGrizz
More deaths occur through motor vehicle accidents than by guns, in the U.S. That is.
notsocrazy24
And considering our generally high number of deaths by guns, that's probably true in other places as well.
odamanda
The original purpose of cars isn't to hurt people. That's a hypocrite and retarded comparison. Did you know that mosquitoes kills millions?
Equinox13
To be fair, a lot of people wouldn't mind being rid of mosquitos for good no matter what.
FeralGrizz
I compared cars to guns because the comparison was pertinent to the comment I replied to. And it's not hypocritical.
foronetoo
By less than 200, but yes. A lot of those motor vehicle accidents are, unfortunately, cause by people who don't drive properly. Which, (1)
foronetoo
to the point about guns being taught/used CORRECTLY, is a good direct comparison (2)
calebrhodes
Uh. For the last time, the 77 cents on the dollar statistic is not true.
TokensWorth
Not the last time, But I like your optimism.
Wombatish
MRA flag-waving in here getting cringy guys... stat not being 100% right in 140 characters doesn't = the idea behind it inherently invalid.
Atalung
yeah but its a nice talking point to throw around so people blatantly ignore the facts
SweaterMuffinMan
Thank you! I am so tired of this statistic being used as the main point of many arguments, when it has been proven to be untrue
neuromonic
Source?
dorkdiggler
Studies that help illustrate the complexity of the issue: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf
3bulldogsbitch
Not sure how to link a youtube video on mobile but search maddox on YouTube and one of his recent videos is on it
azazyel
That stat but there is still a difference in pay between men and women.
azazyel
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-because-of-gender-not-jobs.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0
azazyel
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2015/03/26/new-data-on-just-how-bad-the-gender-pay-gap-is/
azazyel
http://www.businessinsider.com/gender-wage-gap-per-profession-2015-3
azazyel
http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy-policy/2014/04/02/pay-gap-is-alive-and-well-and-hurting-women/
xtuga2x
The amount of weasle words is embarrassing. Also yes women make up most uni grads but in what feilds? Mostly social studies whereas men do
xtuga2x
Stem related degrees that pay far more.
azazyel
source?
xtuga2x
http://www.businessinsider.com/stem-majors-earn-a-lot-more-money-after-graduation-2014-7
HIGHzurrer
Well, it is true in some industries. It was proven true in Hollywood after the Sony leak, for instance.
HIGHzurrer
Also, women pay more for the same products as men in some cases, like shampoo. This is called the "pink tax."
professionalhorsemasturbater
Here the video has actual sources https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HEr8zmVEZQ
zoolian
Dumb argument. You have to pay taxes, you DO NOT have to buy a pink razor, and most ladies I know don't, because they don't work well
timteamtebow
Thats because they aren't buying the same product. If they were the same, then you could just buy the male one. Don't be silly.
timteamtebow
Thats because they aren't buying the same product. If they were the same, then you could just buy the male one. Don't be silly.
HIGHzurrer
Like here: https://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/taking-on-the--pink-tax---how-much-does-it-really-cost-to-be-a-woman-200501359.html
HIGHzurrer
Well, often they are the same product, but it requires women to know to compare them. And lots of women do buy male-only stuff.
HIGHzurrer
S1: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/12/exclusive-sony-hack-reveals-jennifer-lawrence-is-paid-less-than-her-male-co-stars.html
professionalhorsemasturbater
This is based entirely on the way actors are paid, it has nothing to do with gender.
HIGHzurrer
Actually it proves that gender bias is especially bad here, since the numbers prove Jennifer should be making more than the others.
professionalhorsemasturbater
Source?
professionalhorsemasturbater
And she probably did, actor are payed a base salary (usually extremely small) and then they get a percentage of the gross income.
HIGHzurrer
S2: http://fortune.com/2014/12/22/sony-gender-gap-bias-minghella-de-luca/
professionalhorsemasturbater
The majority of execs make a majority of their money from bonuses and even if they didn't this still would prove nothing.
HIGHzurrer
Well, I disagree. It proves to a lot of people that Hannah and 16 other female execs make less base pay in the same positions.
HIGHzurrer
I work with these people regularly. Hannah replaced a male exec. The WikiLeaks data from Sony showed he made more in same exact job.
professionalhorsemasturbater
A company will pay someone less if they let them
professionalhorsemasturbater
A company will pay someone less if they let them
ragekritz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM
TheKingOfWinter
Im so glad someone said it already
LemonFanta
So glad to see so many people on this website that view the world in the simplest and most mindless terms.
PetersenTNG
If it was true, why the fuck would anyone ever hire a man?
neuromonic
Employers may value a man's work more than a women's. Its similar to paying a premium for a newhire with more experience.
dorkdiggler
"For the last time"? Promise? You'll stop dismissing wage gaps based on statistics without social context? Can you convince the others?
dorkdiggler
Social Context: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf
Pipewrenchfight
Well. Okay. I mean. You can deny all you want but countless studies show the wage gaps still a thing. You keep on being you, tho.
snufl
Wow, the people willing to work dirty or dangerous jobs get more money? This should never happen!
Pipewrenchfight
Precisely the jobs women have been trying to break into for years, you mean? Yeah, thats...thats the problem.
snufl
It's funny, because the women I've seen in these jobs had no problem getting them. It's not a lack of desire on the employer's end.
Pipewrenchfight
"I have a black friend"
maythedoctorbewithyou
The wage gap exists yes but it's not for the reason many folks keeps saying. It's because women as a whole work less hours than men.
neuromonic
That's just not true. Hours worked, experience, profession, and job role are the first things statisticians control for.
timteamtebow
They also seem to take lower paying jobs and what not. Lots of personal choices go into the 23 cents wage gape.
Pipewrenchfight
Well. Thats also blatantly untrue and a simple google search can show that so.
maythedoctorbewithyou
Actually a google search shows my statement to be true.. Here's one from a '06 study http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2007/jul/wk1/art01.htm
Griffy11
That dummy doesn't know you can turn ripped bulls in for replacements.
Treblaine
it's true in the same sense that a shop clerk at Tommy Hilfiger earns avg $2000/hour... if your sample size is 2: one clerk and the CEO.
neuromonic
In order to have a statistically significant ci there is a minimum sample size, but the raw data is easily available from the government.
neuromonic
Most studies have samples 10's and 100's of thousands per position.
Treblaine
That's still not enough. EG: Even with sample size of billions the average person has less than two legs as some are missing leg(s).
neuromonic
That's not how statisticians do the math. Econometrics is too complex for me to explain in 140 characters, but I suggest you google it.
Treblaine
Well that REALLY IS how THESE "statisticians" have done the math. Simply averaging income regardless of ANY appropriate rigour.
kyrtian
Beat me to it lol.
nihilityfarce
It's true, but it's not for the same work, iirc? A man's much more likely to be promoted to CEO than a woman, so it's different work.
FunkyAtHeart
Yes, it does.
ragekritz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM
kyrtian
Beat me to it lol.
Zygro
I thought he was making fun of this being perpetual "argument" of feminists...
SingleNiceFedoraWearingClassyGuycautiondonotfriendzone
How can I get my point across if I don't repeat false statistics repeatedly, though?!?!?!
minipancho94
i mean wages are still an issue in some areas, but ive only really seen them in "lower end" jobs, like fast food. 1/2
minipancho94
in my previous jobs, all my female managers made less, though closer to 50-25 cents, and my sister makes 50 cents less as well. 2/3
minipancho94
however, i believe its a cultural issue, as the offending owners come from cultures that are traditionally sexist. (india pakistan etc) 3/3
Lobsterwaffle
And while we're at it, the Greeks believed the Earth was round. The "science once thought the Earth is flat" thing is a recent invention.
TheManyMadMasks
This. Thank you. Eratosthenes was a beast (not sure he was the first to measure, but the one I remember best).
TastyBrainMeats
That's not a Greek in the political cartoon.
DasIstNumberwang
Right, it's a man from centuries after the ancient greeks, who even back then knew the Earth was round.
Lobsterwaffle
You misunderstand. Outside the past 50 years or so, science / the common man in general did not believe in a flat earth.
TastyBrainMeats
Science, no. The common man in general? ...that I'm not sure of.
Lobsterwaffle
Save us both the time and just look it up. It is not hard.
jsktrogdor
It's true. It just that sexism is a very small and almost immeasurable part of it.
nonpondo
https://youtu.be/BDj_bN0L8XM
avidatheist
It's not true for how people apply it.
jsktrogdor
I'm going to guess that this disproportionate amount downvotes comes down to idiots who dont know what "immeasurable" can mean.
DartTarget13
We could make it a thing so you can complain able it being a thing (not sexist just hate ignorance.)
[deleted]
[deleted]
LemonFanta
Don't start thinking that the people who comment on this website are well informed. For your own sake.
EGOT
BUT WHY DON"T WOMEN WANT JOBS AS TRASH COLLECTORS or something like that.
jsktrogdor
More: Women statistically tend to make different choices than men about how they want their careers to go & what their priorities are.
GivePuddingToYourEnemies
To answer you I could type 140 characters but it would be meaningless. I have just one simple response for you my dear : 'No, you're wrong'.
jsktrogdor
Tell me how you measure it. Go ahead.
thefeev
...it seems like a lot of people don't agree with you.
jsktrogdor
Which I find funny, because essentially the exact same comment in a different part of this is 8 upvotes up.
dorkdiggler
I think the phrase 'almost immeasurable' is they key to your downfall
jsktrogdor
Me too. I dont think people realize that word can also mean "impossible to measure". You would think that would be obvious.
maythedoctorbewithyou
It's not that's it's not true because the stat itself actually is. It's that people don't realize why it's true which is a number of reasons
dorkdiggler
Studies that actually prove this that anti-feminists (or whatever they're called) ignore: https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/cfawis/bowles.pdf
zoolian
This, so much.
FrostytheSnowcolt
It takes all the money all men earn and compares it to all the money women earn without controlling for job type or position. i.e. worthless
FrostytheSnowcolt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM
maythedoctorbewithyou
Such as women as a whole work less hours than men, in many cases don't have same experience or negotiate their salaries hard enough, etc.
notsocrazy24
Also men tend to work in higher-paying, more dangerous fields when we're talking about wage workers.
dorkdiggler
Higher paying, perhaps, because we value 'masculine' labor over 'feminine', and girls are actively discouraged from working such jobs
notsocrazy24
value masculine labor over feminine labor.
notsocrazy24
No, actually jobs with higher risks (logging, construction, oil field) are higher paying because they are higher risk, not because we
neuromonic
Can you point me to the data that debunks this? I'm a stats guy and am genuinely interested. Thanks.
Yarnbomber
I have some raw data from the local market for my industry. Equal pay & promotions, mostly. We do have a bit of a skills gap.
neuromonic
What is your confidence interval?
dorkdiggler
Debunking the math does not debunk the point, its a bad way to illustrate a social issue.
neuromonic
The math hasn't been debunked. That's my point. The gap exists, there's no denying it is an issue. Not sure why noone likes your comment. +1
professionalhorsemasturbater
So much wut
dorkdiggler
Sexism is sociological, not mathematical. 77% 'disproved' doesn't 'disprove' the impact of sexism on women's earnings. It is not an equation
professionalhorsemasturbater
but women and men get payed the same
xtuga2x
First result on google from huffpost a leftist publication. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2073804
neuromonic
The link to the first study is broken. The second study tries to explain the wage gap, but does not debunk it or prove it to not be true.
xtuga2x
I should rephrase my statement. The idea that women are payed less for the same work is fictional. If you compare all men to all women men
xtuga2x
greater rate than men, men take degrees that open up higher paying job prospects. TL;DR women aren't paid less for the same work
xtuga2x
Also here is the study that had a broken link http://www.aauw.org/research/graduating-to-a-pay-gap/
xtuga2x
do make more money that is the result of many factors such as the fact that men work more dangerous jobs and while women go to uni at a
neuromonic
If you look at the regressions, the gap exists when they hold constant factors like line of work and education. I dont blame you for being
blaknwhitejungl
I've heard the counter argument that, while the gap disappears if you control for education and other factors, there's still the fact that
airandfingers
It doesn't disappear, it decreases to 5-7%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap#United_States Not 23%, but still significant.
youareprobablyanidiot
There's also the fact that "pink collar" work is undervalued in our society.
fretsr4wimps
But even in traditionally female fields men tend more and get promoted more iirc.
youareprobablyanidiot
This is also true.
fretsr4wimps
*to earn more...dammit
youareprobablyanidiot
And don't even get me started on the penalties you incur if you aren't very calculated in your childbearing strategy.
blaknwhitejungl
equally qualified women are promoted less often than their male counterparts, leaving more higher qualified women in lower paying positions,
idontneednostinkingpuffin
often because they aren't as assertive (/aggressive) in asking for (/demanding) a promotion.
CerebrawlHemmorage
The entirety of the 77 figure can be summed up: women and men make different individual choices. In this case, women aren't as ambitious.
CerebrawlHemmorage
And yeah that's very generalized, but it's what actual studies on it found. Women don't negotiate for pay or promotion as much as men.
dorkdiggler
And, in your mind, that's due to lack of ambition and has nothing to do with social stigmas based on sexism?
aramil31
Solution to this? Encourage women to negotiate more and to push more for advancement.
rosiethereaver
Wrong: http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/graduating-to-a-pay-gap-the-earnings-of-women-and-men-one-year-after-college-graduation.pdf
Conradian
That is because men are more likely to ask for promotion and negotiate their position.
rosiethereaver
No, women ask for raises and promotions just as frequently, but men are considered confident and assertive while women are needy and bitchy.
Conradian
The only women I've seen being taken as needy and bitchy are usually one of the above.
schizznatt
But this still comes back to inherent sexism. Assertive and confident behaviour is viewed less favourably in women than men. So women are
Conradian
So? Only women can change that by being more confident. It's not viewed less favourably except by sexists.
schizznatt
conditioned not to ask.
blaknwhitejungl
but I don't have any statistics to back that up, it's just the only argument for the 77 cents that made sense to me.
tapetkabinett
In that case (according to video by maddox on utub) the gap is 93% and it's apparently because women are statistically happier with their(1)
tapetkabinett
Their job. Might be because they actually earn as much as their male counterparts and the people who say it's 77% make them think it's good.
3rdDegreePancake
It can also be argued then that men are more assertive when it comes to raises/promotions, while women tend to wait for it to happen
CerebrawlHemmorage
Except the 77 cents thing is simply comparison raw gross earnings, with no adjustment for job type, qualification, etc. Keyword: EARNings.
blaknwhitejungl
Well that's the point of what I just said. While people in the same position who have the same qualifications make the same, there's still
FHG38261
Hence a faster climb up a corporate ladder.
hGuderian
That is generally because women tend to be more timid.
rosiethereaver
No, it's because when women speak up for themselves, they're considered "bitchy" and "bossy," not confident and assertive like men.
hGuderian
That's what I mean. They do not want to come across as that.
FHG38261
That gets accounted by men being willing to apply when they have 70% of qualifications and women wait til 100%
Treblaine
Does that control for women asking for promotion as much? Negotiating on pay as much? Lets not barrel forward on assumptions again.
idontneednostinkingpuffin
smart!
schizznatt
But this still comes back to inherent sexism. Assertive and confident behaviour is viewed less favourably in women than men.
idontneednostinkingpuffin
perhaps because they have an attitude about it when they attempt to be assertive because they think they're getting 77 cents on the dollar
Treblaine
But women who do ask for promotions get them. Yeah, they are called assholes, men are called assholes when they are so ruthless as well.
Wombatish
And the fact that maternity leave is fucked up in the US, so women are more likely to have to torpedo their career. But yeah, it's not a (c)
Wombatish
(c) fact/stat, so much as a 'discussion starter'.
neuromonic
The only data I've seen shows a significant gap (~30c) when controlled for position experience education etc. Would like to see the counter.
airandfingers
What do you mean by ~30c? A 30% wage gap? That's greater than the raw wage gap data I've heard (20-23%). You don't mean 30% of 23%, do you?
neuromonic
That was supposed to say about 20 cents. Many of my replies are from my phone.
airandfingers
Okay, so where'd you get 20%? You dispute factors described by the study I linked. Why would removing them adjust the gap to 20%, not 10%?
airandfingers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap#United_States 5-7%. Still significant, but not 23%.
neuromonic
Addressed that study in another comment. The study actually reaffirms the common value.
airandfingers
Side note: please don't make other people dig through your comments to find your reply. There's no shame in copy-pasting.
airandfingers
Not a broken link. http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf Summary says adjusted gap is 4.7 - 7.1%.
neuromonic
Read that study. The gap is significantly higher than 5-7% but they bring it down to that number by assigning a female preference to
neuromonic
part-time work among other things. I feel this unduely biases the result as wages are significantly lower in these job.
airandfingers
(2/2) accounts for 65.1-76.4% of a raw gender wage gap of 20.4 percent, leaving an adjusted gender wage gap of 4.8-7.1%.
airandfingers
Sorry, I tried, but I don't understand the math. I just read the part of the Summary that says controlling for certain variables (1/2)