do you find these moving?

Sep 24, 2015 1:36 AM

itsamazing

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Some perpetual motion machines and why they don't work

since as early as the 8th Century we have descriptions of 'continuously moving wheels' and other forms being experimented with. It is an aspect of science that has fascinated for centuries and it was only with the understanding of the laws of thermodynamics that we know that such machines wouldn't work, and why. All machines leech energy, and many of these are defeated by friction or equilibrium. A pure form of perpetual motion would not rely on gravity either, but as you can see, even with the assistance of gravity, none of these are successful.

I thought you'd enjoy seeing them as concepts. All the video clips are run by hidden motors.

Self flowing flask. Robert Boyle 1627-1691

Concept: the flask relies on capillary action - the means by which a tree is able to suck water upwards against gravity, - it requires a very specific size of tube to flask ratio, so that the volume of the tube is less than the volume of the flask, and the pressure from the water in the flask pushes the water in the tube up and over into the top of the flask.

Why it doesn't work: as Aristotle says, "water seeks its own level" - liquids seek equilibrium, the water would find a point where both sides contained the same pressure and stop. In reality all that would happen would be that the water would form a droplet at the top of the tube, but it wouldn't create sufficient pressure to break the surface tension and start to pour. What about a siphon? Well a siphon depends on having its output lower than its input whereas in this design the output is above the input of the tube, so using it as a siphon wouldn't work either.

1829 perpetual railway

Concept: the rail sections diverge, making the gap between them wider at the end than at the beginning, they also slant slightly uphill. A weighted wheel made from cones will climb up the slope - due to its centre of mass getting lower and lower as it rolls forward - drop to the next and continue.

Why it doesn't work: while the cones appear to be moving uphill, because the centre of the wheel is getting lower as the wheel moves forward it is in fact moving downhill, which would result in the cone requiring a lower and lower track level in order to keep moving forward, in much the same way as an ordinary wheel moves downhill. Hence this is moving downhill not uphill and will stop when it can no longer do so.

overbalanced wheel Villard de Honnecourt 1225-1250

Concept: the weights drop down as they overbalance, dragging the wheel with them. Variations on this idea go back as far as the 8th Century in India and Arabia.

Why it doesn't work: if you notice, when each hammer drops, it actually jerks the wheel backwards a fraction, meaning large amounts of kinetic energy is being lost in thermal energy and friction. Self evidently the motion could not be continued indefinitely as a result of how much is lost.

Edward Somerset, Marquis of Worcester 1601-1667 and Jacob Leupold

Concept: the weights in the rim will roll down their paths resulting in them being further away from the centre of the wheel than the balls on the other -upward- side, dragging the wheel around by their weight as they fall down.

Why it doesn't work: like the other overbalanced wheels, its aim is in fact its undoing. It's true that the further the weights are from the centre of rotational axis the greater the 'gravitational torque' is - the drag in a rotating direction on the wheel, caused by gravity on the falling balls - BUT the moment of inertia required to rotate the wheel increases with distance as well. No matter the distance of the balls from the centre, the mass needed is always proportional to the square of the radius, so as the distance from the centre gets bigger the force required to make it move also grows, meaning there is no net gain in moving the weights.

F G Woodward 1900s

Concept: the large wheel is heavier than the 2 rollers, and almost all of its weight is off-centre, to the left, forcing it to roll downwards, potentially indefinitely.

Why it doesn't work: without outside force the wheel would not begin to turn. Basically if a wheel can move equally well in either direction, you can be sure it isn't going to move in either direction on its own, it will just sit at rest. Even when initiated by an outside force, like a hand in this case, friction would eventually slow the wheel to a stop.

disclaimer: I am not a physicist, so my explanations on how these work and don't work will be a little basic, if anyone wants to add extra or more accurate information, I will happily edit in the interest of accuracy, and credit of course. Appreciation to @timgurnaregretthis for help with some of the more difficult concepts!

forgot one

11 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

disclaimer: I am not a physicist, and neither is anyone that claims these things work.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

These would all work if OP had just looped the gifs.

11 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

Your explanations are great actually!

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Lisa! In this house we obey the rules of Thermodynamics!!

11 years ago | Likes 54 Dislikes 0

...and this perpetual motion machine she made today is a Joke! It just keeps going faster and faster!

11 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

#6 creates a perpetual engine in Besiege

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Homer Simpson: "In this house, we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics!"

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Just have a human occasionally fix it. Burn calories for free energy. Goodness knows we don't need all these calories.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Right? I mean, near perpetual is fine too, just give it a nudge!

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Always upvote science.

11 years ago | Likes 36 Dislikes 3

And booty. But mostly science.

11 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

Aren't they really the same?

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

On this site they are.

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Are we all going to ignore that the one wheel in #4 just vanished into thin air. How they do dat!?

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Aperture Science

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Thinking about it now, that is definitely meant to evoke GLaDOS camera eyes watching you across the text chambers. Graphic design is so cool

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Aperture Science actually gets its name and logo from camera lens http://images.camerasteps.com/uploads/2014/12/camerasteps-aperture-62.jpg

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I mean, the problem with "perpetual motion" is basically friction and/or gravity. (1)

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

You could even make a PPM, but you couldn't get more energy out of the system than you put in initially

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I actually don't even think its possible to make a ppm..

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Given inherent losses of any physical process, a PMM must overcome those on top of propelling itself. Thus outputting more than input.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

TL;DR Law of conservation of energy is why perpetual motion is impossible

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I don't want to force this, but enjoy your up-vote for science

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

As I am not a physicist either, I thoroughly enjoyed these.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I remember a few years ago I was apparently bored enough to argue with all the morons on YouTube who thought these were real.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I am sure a few will show up in the comments on imgur.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

The self flowing flask may not work but is neat to watch

11 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Physics on imgur is It my birthday

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

TLDR: none of them work because of physics.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

this one works explain that!

11 years ago | Likes 77 Dislikes 1

haha laughed my ass off!

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Anyone got this gif in better quality?

11 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

I post the highest quality gif I can find within 20 seconds the video is better tho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk3xBhqcjqY

11 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

I expected this for the cat tax.

11 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

That poor cat. It's gonna be so dizzy.

7 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Perpetual motion requires energy input to start and using any of these to do work would remove energy, eventually stopping the motion.

11 years ago | Likes 26 Dislikes 5

Thank you! This is a good work storing machine what has few opposing forces.

11 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Still friction, not perpetual.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Exactly. A machine like this functions like a battery, not a generator. It just stores kinetic energy instead of electricity. It's useless.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Actually a battery storing kinetic energy is very useful, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Wouldn't these machines still have useful applications? Even if they need a small amount of nrg to start and eventually stop.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

NOT REALLY, YOU'LL NEVER GET MORE ENERGY OUT OF THEM THAN YOU PUT IN. THEY SOMETIMES MAKE COOL DESK ITEMS THOUGH.

11 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 7

Maybe if you needed a slow-turning wheel that doesn't push anything, like a kaleidoscope thingie.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I think you've missed the point. Perpetual motion doesn't require anything, it doesn't exist.

11 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 5

I haven't missed anything. I understand that it does not exist. I should have put that "perpetual motion" in quotes.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Needs more magnets.

11 years ago | Likes 43 Dislikes 1

A magnet that is pushed by magnets that its surrounded by in a large circle encapsullated in copper will produce power. 0 friction on magnet

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

as the magnet passes through the copper the electricity generated will form a magnetic field which opposes its movement.

11 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

That last one seems like it would work, at least for a while, if magnets were used to eliminate friction. Why aren't we funding this!?

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

Why don't you get on that, and be rich and famous?

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Too stupid :(

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I think you're missing the point.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

No I totally get entropy. But a lack of friction would extend the motion of this machine.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

The point being that funding it would be pointless. Even eliminating friction from the rollers, you'd still have friction from the air, 1/2

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

and that's ignoring the fact that this machine doesn't even move unless you put energy into it to begin with. Energy in < energy out, so 2/3

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I was kidding about funding it. But honestly someone might make money selling it as a novelty product. It doesn't have to change the world.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

They don't work? Looks like they worked to me.

11 years ago | Likes 22 Dislikes 7

illusion, dont be fooled

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You missed a line in the intro. They're all run by hidden motors. No one has invented a device like this that actually works.

11 years ago | Likes 37 Dislikes 1

the right answer is: physics has proven it is impossible, until we can bend space time and gravity...

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Haven't you seen Interstellar? WAKE UP SHEEPLE

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Oh shit..

11 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 1

every one of those systems would produce friction, which is always a lose of energy.

11 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Why not lube up

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

That only reduces friction, or makes things slide in easier if you catch my drift. giggity.

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

lube will decrease friction... but never to 0. There will always be friction, so they would all eventually stop

11 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

The self-flowing flask would eventually be stopped by evaporation if left in open air.

11 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

ENTROPY

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yeah the actual problem, I was just pointing out that IF it did work, well evaporation would eventually stop it.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Seal up scale it massively put a mill style wheel in the flow turning a generator free power

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

No.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Yes.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Maybe.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Yes.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I think the upvotes on this will self-perpetuate, ultimately proving you wrong.

11 years ago | Likes 136 Dislikes 6

They will appear to, but over time, they will taper off until approaching and ultimately reaching 0, just like a perpetual motion machine.

11 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Not sure what is more fascinating about this comment, the philosophy or the science

11 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Eventually the post will move so far into the archives that the amount of people to see and upvote would decrease to infinitesimally small.

11 years ago | Likes 23 Dislikes 0

"All natural and technological processes proceed in such a way that the availability of the remaining energy decreases."

11 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

Actually does energy ever decrease? Or does it simply change form into heat energy, and dissipate away, becoming unusable?

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transfered.

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Why perpetual motion doesn't work: Friction.

11 years ago | Likes 285 Dislikes 3

If we could create a frictionless substance than I feel these may work.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Except if you find a glitch in the matrix

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Which is funny because we've been trying to make these things work just for friction to create energy.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

When perpetual motion does work: Fiction.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Agreed. Lets move onto that Free Energy floating around.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Entropy.

11 years ago | Likes 109 Dislikes 2

one of these but with magnets somehow? in a vacuum perhaps?

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

and sufficiently far away from gravity

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

which is a result of gravity, is it not?

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 2

No, friction is its own thing. Gravity provides the contact force necessary for things to rub together (as in every high school example) 1/

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

But friction is ignored in most intro physics systems, e.g. fluid dynamics, flight, etc. 2/2

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

No, just two things coming into contact with each other while at least one is moving.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Also static friction where both objects are motionless.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

needs more WD40

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I think these would all be excellent designs if you are operating in a frictionless system.

11 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 2

So is literally anything else spinning.

11 years ago | Likes 19 Dislikes 0

Agreed. But we need friction more than we don't need it.

11 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Yes, some of them would potentially spin forever. There would still be no way to extract work from them without them stopping.

11 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Or if they were spherical chickens in a vacuum.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

http://imgur.com/up0aUBR There is a working piece in Heureka (Finnish science center). How it generates energy is kept well hidden. 1/2

11 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 0

Reminds me of this clock, which works on day/night temperature difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverly_Clock

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Though it hasn't been approved as THE perpetual machine because they keep it well oiled (it isn't self sustainable). 2/2

11 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Why don't they just use the energy it creates to have it lube itself?

11 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

It puts the lotion on its skin...

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Even if a perpetual motion machine was possible, it wouldn't generate energy. It would only preserve it's input energy indefinitely.

11 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Its simple just create a microverse http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2015/08/screen_shot_2015-08-31_at_7.11.57_am.png

11 years ago | Likes 84 Dislikes 1

God, you don't know the first thing about car repair

11 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Miniverse.

11 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

TONY STARK BUILT THIS IN A CAVE WITH SCRAPS

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

"simple"

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

make sure the ramp goes down nice and slow

11 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Peace in the universe for you.

11 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Fuck you.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

If you ever want to patent a perpetual motion machine in the US, you must first show them a working prototype.

11 years ago | Likes 779 Dislikes 1

The closest anyone has ever come is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlx2PgESXhs

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

And doesn't it have to be running for at least 2 years to be considered?

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Atmos clocks are as close to perpetual motion as you can get.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

And how long is it supposed to work before a patent is granted? a few months? Idk how long these pseudo-pmm's actually work.

11 years ago | Likes 56 Dislikes 0

forever

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I used to imagine perpetual motion machines when i was a kid. all illusions shattered when i took thermodynamics class. :(

11 years ago | Likes 44 Dislikes 0

don't worry my friend. some idiots still believes it and try to sell it for epic science oil company hides from us

11 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 1

You don't need a working prototype anymore. They got rid of that awhile ago. *source: google that shit.

11 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

Its cuz a real one would turn modern physics completely upside down, and would no doubt be the greatest invention past and future

11 years ago | Likes 22 Dislikes 0

That's why they won't allow it, man. They're trying to keep the little guy down!

11 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

That's because it's one of 2 technologies that's scientifically forbidden the other being precognition

11 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Precognition is scientifically probable, just highly doubtful. If you could know the exact position of every atom in the universe you (1/2)

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

(2/2) could theoretically know every future event that will happen.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Precognition violates causality in Michio Kaku's book physics of the impossible he clearly states precognition is impossible because of it

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

They threw me out when I showed them my design. Luckily I was wearing my prototype suit of a cat on my back & buttered toast on my chest.

11 years ago | Likes 50 Dislikes 2

I get that reference

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

You must be very dizzy.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Advice from experience?

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I believe it's actually a rule that was added because of tons of quacks patenting devices that didn't work.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Must date back to when filing them was affordable. Last I heard it cost $10K.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

OP says they don't work but the gifs show that they do clearly work. i am confuse

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

The GIFS are too short, and some of the machines are too inefficient to be true perpetual motion machines.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Key word here being perpetual. GIFs are just a few seconds long, all will eventually stop due to the reasons provided, usually friction.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

ah, that makes sense. thanks for explaining, rather than downvoting because "OP SAID SO!"

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

I'm sorry if that was not sufficiently clear.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

heh, i was just confused. i was like, "but... but it does work. are my eyes broken?" O.O

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

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11 years ago (deleted Aug 11, 2016 4:41 PM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

bwahaha. only works indoor, with lights on.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Well, in light of day it would appear to work.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

This looks legit... I think... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5JvO1opkk

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

So...it was powered by solar energy, not itself?

11 years ago | Likes 36 Dislikes 1

I'm guessing he was claiming that the light from the lamp would power the solar panel, powering itself.

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

He think he meant that the light produced by the lamp was powering the lamp when "absorbed" by the solar panel attached to it.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

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[deleted]

11 years ago (deleted Aug 11, 2016 5:29 PM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

It's not exactly difficult though

11 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

The light for the solar panel is supposed to be provided by the light not the sun)

11 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

I had a friend tell me he was working on a phone app that would overheat a phone just enough for it to charge itself from the heat. Yeah.

11 years ago | Likes 40 Dislikes 0

2) to charge the battery through heat the current LiON batteries would get damaged from the heat and would not last nearly as long.

11 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 1

1) there is an app with the sole purpose of heating the phone but i have no idea why someone would do that. also, even if it were possible

11 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 1

3) 2 layers of failure.

11 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 2

Or that charging isn't 100% efficient. Or that discharging isn't 100% efficient. Or that heat to electricity conversion 2/3

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Is that aside from the fact that energy wasted in heating the phone would never be recovered in charging? 1/3

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

isn't 100% efficient. Or that a lot of heat would simply escape. Just making sure... 3/3

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

(1/2) So, the issue here isn't immediately apparent, but it does exist. You CAN have a bulb that puts out enough light to power itself using

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

No No solar panel is even close to 100% efficient plus any heat is other energy wasted.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Read the rest. My whole point was that it's not efficient, that energy is lost, and that it's not truly a closed system.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

(2/2) assorted Dickbutt pictures taken from the front page.

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I mean, you're probably right.

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

(2/3) a solar panel. The problem is that the light is coming from overheating the filament, and that bulbs eventually wear out. The energy

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

(3/3) it takes to make a new bulb exceeds the energy generated by the bulb/solar panel combo, and thus this is not a perpetual machine.

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Note: Had this submitted as an idea where I work. Someone made a closed box, solar panels on the inside walls, fluorescent bulbs in (1/2)

11 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Did it by chance only work during the day?

11 years ago | Likes 240 Dislikes 0

Probably has a large battery. Still useless though

11 years ago | Likes 38 Dislikes 3

They sell those for like 5 bucks as garden lights.

11 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

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11 years ago (deleted Aug 11, 2016 5:30 PM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

I love and hate people like that. Especially when you're intelligent enough to call them on their bullshit.

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I imagine the solar panel was to generate power to keep the light on to keep the pv cells generating to power the light to... ad infinitum

11 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Is that possible?

11 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Correction: it is not possible to maintain brightness. You can power a bulb briefly.

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Nope.

11 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

No. A light wastes energy as heat while producing light, even if it didn't, a photo voltaic maxes out @ 41% efficiency for the best (1/2)

11 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 0