kakaopor
133340
3814
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More info and sources at the end of post.
Many of the people are against the authoritarian ruling of Viktor Orban and his party Fidesz, we have had a bunch of protest - organized by the people - earlier but they went mostly unnoticed by international media.
Now the opposition started to collaborate and have united their forces, most of them went to the protests. Left, far-right and even parties representing the minority went; their leaders, their voters, their sympathizers and people without a party were there together in one huge crowd - this has never happened before.
The protests held for/against more than only one thing, these include:
* against Overtime Act - so-called "slave law", raising the legal limit of yearly overtime from 250 to 400 hours, allowing employer to delay payment for up to 36 months or giving day offs instead.
* against administrative courts - a separate court system, which will decide in cases concerning decisions of Hungarian authorities, under control of Minister of Justice.
* for joining the European Public Prosecutor's Office (EPPO) - it would have right to investigate regarding corruption cases (we have plenty of it and the Chief Prosecutor is a former Fidesz party member, shrugging of most of accusations unpleasant to Fidesz).
* for reducing the overtime of police forces - to keep below EU limits.
* for restoration of independence of public media - it is now completely ignoring opposing parties, spreading propaganda of the ruling party.
The protests - apart from minor things - were peaceful but firm.
Of course the ruling party and the state televisions (controlled by them) are repeating their own version of reality about "foreign provocateurs" and "Soros network".
Momentum Mozgalom (Momentum Movement, one of the main organizer parties) just posted a video with English subtitles about the protests:
https://www.facebook.com/momentum.mozgalom/videos/221539305404806/
The Newsmakers' video (thanks @brett248vista):
https://youtu.be/NR759RlvJSY
--
UPDATE 1: added Momentum's video.
UPDATE 2: President of the Republic János Áder signed the bill of Overtime Act - expect more protests and update posts.
UPDATE 3: added "The protests held for/against" part.
UPDATE 4: added The Newsmakers' video
--
I didn't want to write much as I can't express myself in subjects like these properly in English, just a few words.
I kept the dates and twitter handles on the screensots so you can find them easily. But even easier to do a quick google search for "hungary protest":
https://www.google.com/search?q=hungary+protest&ie=UTF-8
Sources:
https://index.hu/english/2018/12/12/administrative_courts_minister_of_justice_unprecedented_powers_independence_separation_of_power/
https://index.hu/english/2018/12/16/protest_sunday_budapest_overtime_act_judicial_independence_opposition_fidesz_orban/
https://index.hu/english/2018/12/20/overtime_act_slave_law_signed_janos_ader_president_2019_protests_general_strike/
English edition of the biggest local independent news site:
https://index.hu/english/
More:
https://english.atlatszo.hu/
State news:
https://www.hirado.hu/rovatok/in-english/
FrozenWatcher
Deserve the support of all liberals and Democrats is a little douchey. Your average conservative doesn't support slavery or dictators.
2fligh2high
I really hope you can make a difference! Because around the globe, bastards are on the rise
v
WHYvictimsofabombraid
Great work! Keep on fighting.
SparkleSalsa
Sounds like the world is gearing up to eat the rich and powerful.
Norwegianguywholikesstuff
Ah, the classic alt right response from the Orban regime: "Soros network."
johnytwodicks
Right? That's the big conspiracy theory among the far right in the US right now too
khazorath
Missed the best bit of the law where they don't have to pay them for that over time for upto 3 years
swatz
I can understand being outraged enough to protest!
Thismanneedsaname
Leave it to VOX to throw in issues with immigration, even though its not why this is happening
Domehammer
First time I've heard of protests in Hungary. Mostly just heard about France because its gotten so bad their that police are protesting now.
warlockaflocka
There were some earlier this year over immigration laws and the removal of gender studies programs and attacking universities iirc.
Bernifal
Yep. And many for the CEU. I lived in Budapest for 3 years until last year and marched a few. Sad times with Orban in charge.
dzikioscar
Good luck from Poland. We have an authoritarian regime in the making as well. I really hope you guys make a breakthroug and show us the way.
kamosey
doctorhat
Your English is definitely better than my Hungarian! Köszi.
IUpvoteLOTRMemes
1)There is a limestone quarry where i live. A lot of people i know work there. If you dont work overtime everyday they will fire you. Somone
IUpvoteLOTRMemes
died recently on a night shift and they finally got a day off. They are literally working their employees to death.
IUpvoteLOTRMemes
Btw they also have to work everyday. Not a single day off for months. They get paid well but it seems criminal.
Itsnotreallyme
Pro tip: don't work there
Antonics01
Hungarians have to work more: *people lose their shit*. Romanian government 'takes over' the judiciary power: *gets a warning from the EU*
Nuttsy
Hungary's been getting yelled at by the EU since about the time the immigration shebang happened. But "Ohmagawd dem immigrants!" was louder.
Antonics01
That moment when the immigrants can't pass and they stay in your country and prevents your work force from collapsing. Good guy Hungary
Hutchy01
To be fair this shit started with Judicial tampering
FuckNailaAunty
Keep the posts coming OP. Love hearing updates straight from the source
kakaopor
Well... János Áder (President of the Republic (?)), the last one in the process of bringing a law into effect just signed the change. 1/2
kakaopor
So another major protest is planned for tomorrow evening. I guess I will have some updates soon. 2/2
SmolTenk
@OP As a german: anything we can do to help?
kakaopor
Thank you, really, but I guess we've to solve this on our own. Raising awareness, not believing our leaders at face value wd be most helpful
somethingsomethingwittyhere
Komer
Hey Europe, It's me Germany.
Nuttsy
Not Hungarian, but maybe you guys could speed up work on the Angie Mk.II project? The last one seemed to work decently well.
SmolTenk
...is there anything *besides* that we can do to help? (also it feels really strange to see some praise for her)
Nuttsy
Well, her contemporaries are Vlad, Viktor "(((Soros!)))" Orban and the Annoyingly Scary Orange. At this point, I'll take what I can get.
malakim
As a german: I'm once again surprised that i learn about this kind of demonstrations/riots from imgur first instead of some news outlet.
Thismanneedsaname
Funny how that happens worldwide
malakim
I just checked the ARD (state television) feed as well as another outlet i have an subscription for and nothing about this in either...
SmolTenk
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/ungarn-protest-orban-101.html
malakim
Point taken, but just as with the yellow vests, one would expect ongoing coverage not two articles half a week back.
Nuttsy
It's less interesting when it's the government potentially threatening dissidents.
NotYetNotYetNow
It was on Tagesschau and every established media reported on it.
jamil1234567891
"soft fasicm" fucking lol
chuckles11
maybe "fascism in its infancy"... although babies are soft... I think, I've never met one.
Tuvano
Vox is garbage.
thecheesedip
Vox is indeed garbage. It's for people (followers) who don't know *how* to think, but want to sound like they did independent research.
thecheesedip
And that's not to say I disagree with all of their views, but it is definitely a "Here is what you should believe" type blog. Not journalism
Galdrack
I always see it as "here's why this is a problem" they also link their sources for each video and have stuff to back it up.
doven5978x
How is "soft fascism" inappropriate?
mikeatike
You are either fascist or not. This guy colluded with companies to force employees into manditory overtime. If that ain't fascisism...
KartFnocker
The label isn't being used just because of this one overtime issue
Bruhbeans
His actions are really authoritarian. Independent speech gets bought out or punished. Dev can describe that as soft fascism
getyourp00pinagroup
being able to force employees to work to work any amount of overtime is inexcusable! the fuck is this shit???
GingerLaird
I guess this is a place to ask; Is a broken society the reason for the rise of Authoritarianism?
Andied
I think it also is a far to comfortable "non broken" system that can lead to a dictator....
DearAtlas
The fear of losing culture and identity due to globalization, plus the static society.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
Eastern Europe is a weird case. Most of it went fascist in the 1940s, then went communist without ever really dealing with the fascist (1)
Thismanneedsaname
Also a symptom of a populist relying on the government( to provide for their needs. Once they start, the govs power grows unchecked 1/
Thismanneedsaname
and personal freedoms being to slowly go away under the guise of this will provide safety, comfort etc. People generally notice 2/
Thismanneedsaname
when it almost too late 3/
TheWombatStrikesAgain
past. So when the Warsaw Pact dissolved, they all hated communism but didn't have a problem with extreme right gouvernments. (2)
troublecliff
I think much of it had to do with pro German sentiment after WW1 - resulted from the way the invading Germans treated them vs their own govt
kakaopor
I think it begins with a smart populist who can convince people to elect him, while discrediting candidates and parties, splintering them.
DearAtlas
Wait you didnt answer his question.
kakaopor
Check my replies below this one.
Chaimgoldbergenstein
It never begins with the populist. The populist channels pre-existing sentiments into a cohesive party--they're a symptom, not the illness.
kakaopor
And then he can start making changes bit by bit to make it harder and harder for others to compete, while keeping the good guy public face.
kakaopor
But yeah, it only works if people don't care about it in the middle-long term until it is late. IMHO.
GingerLaird
So like several of the recent Elections in America...? Political Mudslinging, bullying, potentially rigged elections, payoffs, etc...?
kakaopor
For elections we had 78 parties, lot of fake, around 5 is over 1% support. Also Fidesz made it nearly immpossible for others to reach out.
kakaopor
Fake: no offices, no websites, no crew, only candidates who grab the money and disappear after election. Many with misleading names.
GingerLaird
So I think it'd be a very important law for elections that no mudslinging is allowed, and if caught, you're disqualified from running. (1/2)
GingerLaird
I mean, if you can't act like an adult to get the position, I'm not sure you really deserve it. (2/2)
Keairan
According to a Hungarian friend of mine on these protests: "So a few days ago, there was a protest infront of our Parliment"
Keairan
After which people just disappeared, Nowhere to be found. The parents of a young man (I think he's like freshman in university or something)
Keairan
tried calling the police repeatedly. The police didn't have him. So then the mother even put in word to the police that her son is now a (3
Keairan
missing person and they should try and locate him. Still nothing Now it turns out THEY HAD HIM IN FUCKING CUSTODY ALL THIS TIME. Meanwhile(4
Keairan
it's documented that people's lawyers showed up to police presincts after the protesters were arrested, demanded to see their clients (5)
Keairan
the police wouldn't let them, claim their client wasn't there while the clients (the arrested protesters) were screaming through the walls(6
Hutchy01
Miklos Horthy would be proud of him.
Lairus
The gov. response reminds me so much of how our own Slovak gov. retaliated when we had protests earlier. Keep strong, southern barátok!
NotYetNotYetNow
This almost made me cry! Thank you, friend!
KartFnocker
Exhibit 1 when people say protestors should never have to cover their faces
cbale2000
Protesters are welcome to, rioters are not, big difference. You start throwing rocks and you're now a masked criminal.
KartFnocker
Things aren't black and white. Plenty of situations where 5 guys on the edge throw some rocks and police round up 200 innocent people
BenSnow97
It's actually a crime to cover your face on a protest in Hungary, and you can see here why.
BenSnow97
Alright, to clear up the confusion: I'm not supporting those bastards in power, just pointing out how they're securing their position.
PlzCureMyDepression
The reason people cover their faces is because they want to commit crimes without consequences. Usually more serious crimes.
KartFnocker
or because of, you know, the exact thing in the tweet I quoted. Extra-judicial targeting of protestors
PlzCureMyDepression
Did you consider that the police want to target the people in the tweet due to a crime?
haidernoori916
Still doesn't justify covering your face. ESPECIALLY not in free and democratic societies.
warlockaflocka
How is restricting what I can wear free?
haidernoori916
If the free society decides so then that's that.
Wolvenlight
I think the "free" part in free and democratic societies justifies covering your face. You haven't hurt anyone by doing so. Granted, that-
Wolvenlight
makes it harder for police to find you if you are a criminal, and some locales do outlaw masks in public, but the mask itself doesn't do-
Wolvenlight
any actual damage in protests, so if they remain peaceful then it's hard to justify a harsh response/arrests just because of masks.
TheosophicBlues
"Free and Democratic"™
WHYvictimsofabombraid
Who would have thought they would use it against us? Im shocked/s
JeagerAB343
I think they mean in America. In other places where you clearly get repercussion to include gulag and death I think it's more acceptable
uplock
...but you don't think that happens in America?
uplock
I mean, I guess it's true in a way since they have stuff like MIRS...they don't need to ask for people to identify the protesters.
JeagerAB343
Of course it does, just not as blatantly. And with not S much frequencies as places outside is the US.
PitchforkSalesperson
Dude, hungary isn't excactly a gulag and death country either. This sort of thing is unacceptable
BenSnow97
It might be soon. It was around 30 years ago, and it's actually the same guy who took it down who is now prime minister and wannabe dictator
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
Because in america political retaliations are totally unheard of.
JeagerAB343
Never said that, it just isn't as known about as places like Russia. But ofcourse it happens...EVERY government does.
KartFnocker
this stuff happens in America too. Look at the journos arrested at Trump's inauguration that did nothing wrong, or police publishing the ///
TheRockDude
Did you know that America recently made the top 5 most dangerous countries for journalists for the first time?
KartFnocker
details of people they later released with no charges (so they were completely innocent). Sources:
KartFnocker
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/business/media/alexei-wood-journalist-trial-inauguration.html/
KartFnocker
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/06/berkeley-activists-arrested-police-identified-twitter
Leithoa
Nice false equivalence.
KartFnocker
huh? It's the same type of thing, I didn't say it was the exact same situation
Muffdiver9
With the extremists in the US who call for the death of people who don't support trump or the GOP, can't blame people for hiding identities.
lysani
I've seen far more people call for death against anyone that supports Trump than those who don't. It's all stupid either way.
Leithoa
Who says that? I hear that a lot more from antifa than right wingers
Muffdiver9
People like Alex Jones.
Muffdiver9
Why is it when I say 'extremists' conservatives feel attacked? Should hate these people as much as the rest of us not make excuses for them.
TheosophicBlues
Qanon cultists and the alt-right. Antifa hasn't murdered anyone.
Leithoa
Not for lack of trying.
ltcwheatex
Exactly. I’d love to see links to true tales of evil right wingers. On this platform, you and I are in the minority. I revel in my downvotes
Radants
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2018-12-05/global-terrorism-deaths-down-globally-right-wing-terror-on-rise
Leithoa
.....what?
Radants
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/12/study-shows-two-thirds-us-terrorism-tied-right-wing-extremists
Ventralfinn
You want proof of evil right wingers? How about FBI hate crime stats? https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2016/topic-pages/victims
TheosophicBlues
I suspect you also consider your ignorance a virtue and worthy of pride.
Radants
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states-right-wing-violence-is-on-the-rise/2018/11/25/61f7f24a-deb4-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25c
Lyeiir
First - great English, better than some native speakers! Second - thank you for providing some insight into what's going on!!
spetcnaz
This cocksucker Orban gave a Azeri soldier/murderer back to Azerbaijan , who was doing time for ax murder of a fellow military student
spetcnaz
from Armenia. They were at a NATO sponsored event. He killed the soldier while the guy was asleep. Orban apparently got nice amount of cash
spetcnaz
from the Azeris to do this. So yeah he is a piece of shit even for none Hungarians. Source below
spetcnaz
http://hungarianfreepress.com/2017/09/06/hungary-appears-to-have-sold-azeri-axe-murderer-for-7-million/
dschuma
Didn't even think they weren't a native speaker. Incredible
Whybotherbeingcreative
Conspiracy theory time.. News outlets are probably less inclined to inform on this and the french riots because it shows that citizens
Whybotherbeingcreative
can stand together against the government and that's a bad idea to spread to the masses.
VenkmanBURNinHELL
Sidenote: The name Victor Orban sounds like a Bond villian.
BenSnow97
I think I found out which car he should take, but sadly it launched in February without him
TastyCake123
Soros network eh? Still hard for me to accept that "The Jews are to blame." is more common in Europe than the States.
warlockaflocka
It's been common since they were the first monotheistic religion. They have always been seen as "a nation within a nation" , making them1/2
warlockaflocka
2/2 good scapegoats for a nationalist regime. anti-Semitism seems like it will be alive and well forever.
KrisPhoenix
1st: it's 400 hours allowed overtime from 250 - that's part of the problem. The even bigger problem is, that your overtime can be paid 1/2
[deleted]
[deleted]
reddocs
it was for lowering. YOu can watch the video on facebook, there they state all o their demands
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
the mandatory overtime is pretty standard. The delayed payment is too, What's' unusual about this law is how long the delay can be.
Ilikecatsandbeer
Where do you live?? It's not standard.
SmolTenk
400 hours?
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
Which translates to a little over seven hours overtime a week.
PoppinFlesh
Where is it standard? And that doesn't really make it ok, imo
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
The US and EU both have laws that allow it.
GeneraalGie
Mandatory overtime is illegal in most Western European countries. Voluntary overtime is allowed though.
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
Western European countries are all post industrial, Hungary is not not, as such the number of manhours available is much more important.
ImProbablyHighx
China
KrisPhoenix
after 3 years! OR NOT! And the biggest BS is, that Orbán used the phrase "People are leaving Hungary, because they can't work enough" 2/3
KrisPhoenix
The sad truth is, most people don't receive enough cash to meet their ends meet -and now Orbán just sold everyone out for a small amount 3/4
KrisPhoenix
cash,even after he already stole everything from the people of Hungary, and gave it to himself or his "allies".His reign is in the 13th year
Leadfoot
That's why we have term limits on president, and should on everything else...
azazyel
We're living in interesting times
PepeThePewer
We live in troubled Times.
bitterpagan
Hey, your that demon/fallen that keeps showing up in my dreams!
jhanked
The old curse came true! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_you_live_in_interesting_times
kakaopor
Well, you're not wrong.
Intermaus
I think this is a good thing. Hungarians only care about change when you have something to get mad at.
Navrodel
I never understood how "May you live in interesting times" was a curse. I'm beginning to get the picture.
azazyel
In starts to sink in when you just crave a no news day, or just something boring like the headline news would be about a dog show
Thismanneedsaname
Miss the days of a 30 minute news show at 6pm vs 24/7
aclarko
Hah. Every morning before my commute I pause and wish that I won't hear the name Trump when my radio turns on. I am so rarely gifted this.
SaneJoeDavola
I really do hope Hungary shows this dude that younger generations will not simply accept these quasi fascist governments. People will (1/?)
SaneJoeDavola
oppose them, fight them. I'm Brazilian and going through the same thing. I hope you guys manage to do what we haven't yet. (2/2).
chuckles11
What's the ratio of thrilled / concerned Brazilians regarding what's happening in your country right now? Just curious
CrabOfThePeople
Hey Hungary, what the hell happened? Last i knew you guys were fine? What cause them to hike up overtime? Who voted this guy in?
IncognitoPanda
Ironically, Budapest is where he has the least public foothold. But much like trump, the rednecks like him, and the educated don't.
TheN8
BenSnow97
Who voted him in? Clueless old people who get all their info from the state-run media. And it has been the third time this year, he's been >
BenSnow97
doing this bullshit for four years. Last time he got elected we got the ridiculous "internet tax" proposal (unsuccessful, fortunately).
BenSnow97
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hungarian_Internet_tax_protests
RougeBlender
Yah know, that's what happens when you have a Unitary parliamentary republic. Look up the definition of those words... Trust me.
datbananaboii
Bruh. Hungary's never really been "fine." You just never heard about it on the news.
kakaopor
They've used aggressive tactics to get power and then changed rules and laws to keep it. From gerrymandering to buying/silencing independent
juli4g33k
Same in Romania :( It's a perfect clone case. I assume the same is happening in all former Eastern Block countries.
ISaidSarcastically
Sounds a lot like the US right meow
Sgtchewy
It is the same tactics the right(republicans) are doing in the U.S. Trump has just made it easier for them to be blatant with it.
Nerubin
Sounds like a faster version of the U.S. government or a slightly slower version of the Nazi Regime.
BenSnow97
Viktor Orbán was actually a key figure in taking down the oppressive "socialist" regime in 1989, he knows all their tricks. In fact, his >
BenSnow97
own speeches from nearly 30 years ago can be used perfectly to criticize his current government.
kakaopor
or any opposing media. They have made sure to have their on people at every significant position. They've won 67% of seats with 45% votes in
Antonics01
Tell me something new that happens in Eastern Europe. Usually it's because of old people who do not trust new political parties.
kakaopor
2014 and then 67% with 49%. And with tthese numbers and their people they can do whatever they want.
MorrighanWolf
Okay time for violence.
kakaopor
Check out https://english.atl">.hu/">https://english.atlatszo.hu/ and https://index.hu/english/ also wikipedia regarding parliamental elections in Hungary.
InoffensivePablum
Wisconsin Republicans won 64% of seats with 46% of the vote and are working to pass laws to remove power from the New Democratic governor.
DarthFluffyKittens
We asked what was wrong with hungry not the US
mardukkur
Hard right ultra-nationalists. Same as Trump but Orban's not as stupid and has more institutional support.
HerpestonMcDerping
I'm not speaking in favor of the right, but if you're on the left side of the political spectrum, everything seems 'far-right'.
mardukkur
This just isn't true. Mitt Romney was not "far-right". John McCain was not "far-right". Charlie Baker is not "far-right".
HerpestonMcDerping
I guess it depends on how far-left you are. I met people who called libertarian centrists 'right wing extremists'.
mardukkur
Randian Libertarianism is on the far, far right as an economic doctrine, but libertarianism originated as a left political philosophy.
zaccypoo
Hungary has always been in turmoil with the deep state politics.
Dagordae
It was only fine if you only paid attention to his PR. He’s been oozing his way to a dictatorship since he started.
FartingDragon
Shit's fucked yo.
Etlac
Vote alt-right, get alt-right.
BlackSiren32
right wing politics have taken over most European governments
Szurix90
This is not even right wing. This is far right populist.
SmolTenk
EU's been warning for quite some time now.LastI heard the opposition was too splintered to mount a united defense. nice to see thats changed
HerpestonMcDerping
EU should clean up its own mess, god knows Brussels is a festering pool of human excrement right now.
BenSnow97
Yeah, it's great some actual opposition. As a Hungarian, I voted for the Two-Tailed Dog Party because honestly they were the only sane >
BenSnow97
choice. Last time around the opposition was similarly shattered, then it united on the 2014 internet tax protests, then it was put down >
BenSnow97
again when the government used the refugee crisis to generate an incredible amount of hate and point it towards the left, while completely >
BenSnow97
replacing the far right. Now, if you dare to criticize the "glorious leader" you're apparently paid off by George Soros and committing >
kamosey
When was the last time you knew? Shit's been going on for years.
kakaopor
They did most of heavy changes in the parliament, not on the streets. That's "politics", people didn't care until it hurt, which was late.
kamosey
I've been following the Orban rule from afar but his direction was very clear from the beginning. I'm glad people are gaining courage.
spacecadet103
*Notices the increasing rise of authoritarian regimes worldwide*
InTheDistanceAPlaintiveEnglishHorn
Poland, Brazil etc
Radants
Ethnocentric fascists (Nazis) gaining power and popularity globally but people still tell you "it's no threat, there aren't many, it's fine"
rodrigopolo
The reaction to the rule of the left “soft” coups.
TheosophicBlues
Soft coups? Is that the "white genocide" of coups?
aclarko
AKA the "war on Christmas" of coups
CAntthenuclearapocalypsecomesoicanjustdiealready
This is why you don't elect nationalists and populists
TomZarekVP
They're Just following the example of the Shining City upon the Hill
Draconieray
So is it cool if I keep my pile of ar15s then?
SuperMylo64
Extreme left wing ideology is making a mainstream push, no one wants it so it alienates the average voter and moves them to the right.
VodkaReindeer
Remember when we had these posts about Venezuela? Remember how that ended?
ShadeEmberi
eh it is that time of the century, tends to happen in cycles. it will pass, hopefully without a giant war
1400mlwaterbottle
These Hungarians are hungry for justice
aesthesia1
WErE AlL OwNInG ThE LiBs
OnlyPositiveComments
I see an increasing rise in the public pushing back hard against authoritarianism. There's lots of room for hope and faith in Democracy.
probablyshouldbedoingwork
Wherever there are those that seek to restrict human freedom, there will be those that push back, violently if necessary.
NobodyWorthThinkingAbout
People didn't exactly lie down and take it when authoritarianism rose in the past, either. Will this time go better?
khora
If I was Putin I would support both sides.
Mimsey
Less faith, though. The principles of democracy require facts and reason. From Pluto and Aristotle to Locke and Rousseau, logic trumps all.
Gaidenninjacat
While authoritarianism is wrong, democracy is also a shit system so...
geosynthetic
I think it's more important that democracy is the morally correct system than it being a *good* or efficient system.
Gaidenninjacat
And Morals dont actually exist, its a made up thing which changes from person to person as well as country to country.
Gaidenninjacat
Modern democracy is saying that someones ignorance is just as important as someone elses education, and if you believe in that, your stupid.
GlassSword
A Republic on the other hand...
khora
Really bad, and the best we have.
Gaidenninjacat
tbf Democracy is an amazing system if everyone in your population is highly educated.
Frogapus
And guillotines! Don't forget guillotines!
Mimsey
And why? Because so many humans are stupid apes who fear change so much that they will gladly revert to ancient feudalism to avoid it.
bealtimint
*cough* Brazil *cough* China *cough* Possibly the US sometime in the future *cough*
pareidoliaperson
*Cough* Ebola. You need to check that cough bro.
jhanked
Trump's certainly trying.
NballardPDX
Elaborate?
jhanked
He openly attacks free speech and the free press. He's a hardliner spewing rhetoric about "violent invaders." He lies compulsively.
jhanked
If not for institutions blocking his whims, he'd very clearly go all in on being an authoritarian. Instead he settles for doing what he can.
TheLastBaboso
México also
deathbymonkeys
It's looking that way. If the Far Left gets it's way.
GlitterIsModernHerpes
Ohhh man somebody is triggered because they voted wrong, and now they have to support a shitty president!
deathbymonkeys
Yeah I had to for Obama as well
nahimgood2000
Lol you have all these resources you can find to make you smarter but you choose info wars and rush limba? Questioning what they tell you...
warlockaflocka
Yes the blue haired college kids with more authority then the trump white house. Of course the true unseen threat.
bealtimint
Which party talks about alternative facts again?
Deadmanwalkn
Or continuously attacks/undermines the credibility of legitimate news outlets that criticize the party
GlitterIsModernHerpes
The GOP. Just wanted to shore that up for those that can't put 2 and 2 together.
MericanNightmare
Kinda off topic, but just gonna leave this here
jhanked
Pfft, that's only if you define Left-Wing Extremists using facts and not the definitions I've decided encompass leftism. Weak chart. Sad!
Tinkrr
Luckily so far the US has a small enough government to avoid it, but if the Bernie big government crew gets in that may change. As for 1/2
Deadmanwalkn
What big government from the bernie crew would lead to a rise of authoritarianism exactly? It's the consolidation of powers that leads to it
CondescendingCunt
Pardon, but could you continue the comments at a later date? Your first post already exceeded the maximum recommended intake of stupidity.
Tinkrr
China, they've surprisingly been heading more towards capitalism, which allowed their rise as a country. They may avoid this if they 2/3
Tinkrr
continue to reduce government control as they have been for some time now. D: 3/3
Deadmanwalkn
You say as they implement their social ranking system
ClaudeWicked
China becomes increasingly dystopian and authoritarian, "Guys they're doing great, because CAPITAL fucking socialist will destroy us!"
TheosophicBlues
China has been a capitalist country in all but name for a long time now. Capitalism doesn't prevent authoritarianism.
crann
Not arguing against the US statement, but the big difference is that the govnt is distributed across 50 self governing states. Would take
crann
an impressive massing of power. Individual states have sued the fed gov for a lot less. But as we've seen lately, its not an impossibility.
FallingStar7669
Gerrymandering is a clear attempt to force the outcome of a vote, so we should still be very worried.
crann
Gerrymandering is being used for "good" in many states. Abused in many more. Only way to fix gerrymandering is more gerrymandering.
kakaopor
You wanna establish a new country? I'm in.
pancakeisi
Lets call it Ankhmorpork. I call commander of the watch
Comet260
HA! I want a new planet! Find some nice, M-Class world and start up a Federation (Star Trek) like gubmint!
rebel1996
Why does it say they are protesting “anti immigration”?
keyonne
An it be a direct democracy? I’m tired of elected officials ignoring the people’s wishes.
CondescendingCunt
Meh. Technocracy or fuck off.
LasciviousHedgehog
Too many problems. Proportionally representative with safeguards about campaigning (illegal for campaigns to buy add time etc) however...
seveneljeven
With blackjack and hookers?
J0EMEGA
The best kind!!
SpanishBiscuit
And fiber internet and free healthcare. Given by hookers.
Grudgebearingmidget
Don't forget the Quaaludes and Cocaine
Mantias
But... most countries have that
AquaHair
Obviously!!
neilwatkinsfromaccounting
I'm in. I call dictato-I mean democratic leader.
Minnakht
You can be a candidate in the election.
PitchforkSalesperson
Yeah but am I a "candidate" or candidate-candidate. It's important
vandude9090
*the candidate
maliciousGman
I wonder if it's a knee-jerk reaction to Globalization. Like some kind of misguided attempt to maintain a national identity in the face 1/2
maliciousGman
of increasing homogenization.
Galdrack
I think it has a lot more to do with consolidation of wealth and spreading of misinformation.
GlassSword
It's also the pushback against multiculturalism; I've seen members of EU government that say their respective nations don't have an /1
PorkSword6
Apple or an orange
GlassSword
Identify, common values, a common creed when justifying the integration of awful practices from other cultures. I much prefer Obama's /2
GlassSword
Interpretation of Multiculturalism in that we come from various backgrounds but share common values/a common creed. People are not /3
CirB
It's one part of it. Another is the increasingly uneven distribution of wealth which is leaving more and more people without means to (1)
LookYouStupidBastard
We're definitely moving toward feudal era imbalances.
CirB
secure their everyday lives & without hope of ever improving their economic & societal situation. (2/2)