AlphaStructural
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The land in Rancho Palos Verdes has been sliding for decades, but it is now moving quicker than ever.
Portuguese Bend, an area in Rancho Palos Verdes, is currently shifting at a rate of 7 to 12 inches per week and threatening numerous neighborhoods.
This home had no issues earlier this year, but as the land has continued to sink, extraordinary measures have been taken. Stairs, which were previously unnecessary, were added to the front door to enter the house.
The land movement has now exposed the foundation.
The ground in this area has dropped around 5-6 feet in just a few months.
The shifting ground has compelled Rancho Palos Verdes to impose a prohibition on 2-wheel vehicles in other areas like Palos Verdes Drive South roadway for at least six months until movement rates can be significantly reduced.
This was once a much flatter driveway. The homeowner has been climbing a rope to get into the home due to the drastic change in elevation.
Land movement isn’t a new phenomenon on the Palos Verdes Peninsula. However, the shifting has not only accelerated but has also begun to cause damage to additional areas.
Their water main is now above ground, with flex connections added to accommodate future expected ground movement.
This foundation is severely damaged and needs to be demolished and replaced. The extensive damage compromises the structural integrity of the home, making it essential to address the issue promptly to ensure safety and stability.
This block wall, which supports the neighboring home situated on the hill, is failing and leaning into the adjacent property. The deterioration of this wall jeopardizes the structural stability of the neighboring home and presents a significant risk to both properties.
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pr3viso
I think "I want to buy a house. I wonder if there's a place that hasn't been sliding down the hill for the last 60 years? Found it! Palos Verdes has only been sliding down the hill for the last 35 years. Perfect!"
UsernameMayBeSubjectToChange
Scary stuff
AlphaStructural
Imagine being a homeowner in the area. *GASP*
WaterUnderTheRocketAppliances
Can these people even get home insurance? I'm surprised banks will even write loans there given this has been a known problem.
IHaveGreatKittenRecipes
The kind of money that lives in this area gives banks loans, not the other way around. And same for the insurance, if you're willing to pay enough they'll underwrite *anything*.
Lostchild12
The Pacific plate and North American plate have been grinding against each other for millions of years, pushing up unstable hills. In the middle of the last Century, a plane flew over the California coast photographing the massive numbers of landslides prior to the housing booms.
Clockworkdancerobot
So, some of the water mains started leaking and caused even more rapid ground sliding?
GriffinMann41
Given that this is CA, there's actually a decent chance it's the other way around to a degree. CA and the rest of the west coast and desert region have been overpumping groundwater for decades now, and it's permanently destroying aquifers and sources of water, and lowering ground levels like this. Pretty good chance this is what's happening here
Germankipp
Not really,just simply very unstable soils right on the coast
JonesColorDog
Any idea what's causing this @OP? Seems too largescale for water main leaks and rainstorms. I lived in SoCal for 20 years and remember the mudslides caused by heavy rains but nothing this quick and drastic
AlphaStructural
It's an ancient landslide that has been moving for over 30 years, however, the drastic movement has been occurring due to the heavier than average rains that we have had in the last two years.
JonesColorDog
Thanks!
Feralkyn
That is fucking terrifying.
TheSlouchOfBethlehem
Wonder what they could get for their places 'as is' now. Probably a huge comedown, but this is Rancho Palos Verdes, probably also still multiple offers from people who're willing to wait and see.
MickeyCallahan
"This plot is headed downhill, so in a few years it'll be beach front! ...Nevermind that a few years after that, it'll be underwater, I'll sell before that..."
tonehoundsmoser9
To quote Steely Dan, "California tumbles into the sea..."
Quenya3675
That'll be the day I go back to Annandale
UnitConversionBot
12 inches ≈ 30.5 centimetres
JonatasAM
Good bot?
AlphaStructural
Unit Conversion Bot what are you doing here.
Dracology
its terrible but the line "This was once a much flatter driveway." sent me
AlphaStructural
In days of yore, this passageway was notably more level.
CedricDur
My favorite poster (move over, elbowdeep)
AlphaStructural
Thank you!
Muunk
Is this unusual considering the low amount of rain that SoCal has received this year?
AlphaStructural
This much movement is actually occurring due to the fact that this area had above average rainfall within the last 2 years.
Muunk
Ok understood. The early 2023 rains were heavy. 24 has seemed dry
Ekibwurm
AlphaStructural
As is this gif..
Ekibwurm
blame imgur for it. i found it in their library. but joke aside hikes.... how was that land cleared for building on it in the first place....madness
SnarkShark2020
"Follow the Yellow Brick Road! Follow the Yellow Brick Road! Follow... well, maybe not."
AlphaStructural
I don't think you would make it to Emerald City.
slidewhistlesymphony
The drum in the last pic is a nice touch.
KingXizor
Feels like a "this area is no longer fit for habitation" wvacuation would be in order.
AlphaStructural
Some homes were red tagged because of the severe damage.
lapus
That is a nice snare. A new head and would be like brand new. I could use it.
DrewK98
The line break after "7 to 12 inches per" gave me time, while my eyes were tracking down to the next line, to think, "Damn, 12 inches a year is a lot." Then I got to the next line and it's per *week*. You could sit and look at it and probably see it moving.
AlphaStructural
Yep, this is record breaking movement! Even 12 inches a year is a lot, but a WEEK!? Very interesting.
OnlyByMoonlight
Per week?!! Yeah that's not going to be salvageable long term.
SerialChickenLover
This feels like a disaster in slow motion. How are those homes even habitable?
MothMonsterMan
That's not salvageable short term
OnlyByMoonlight
Good point.
TheShoggothOfMosquitoCreek
7-12" a wk = 28-48" or 2'4"-4' a month. That's 1.21 meters per month. When will it stop? Or does it just keep dropping until they're dangling from the edge of a portal to hell?
Germankipp
It's all going into the ocean
1BadPanda
I love your posts. I don't understand any of it, but I enjoy that someone like you does good work.
AlphaStructural
Thank you! We are glad you love them!
Jawesome19
Why try to save anything? What kind of municipality is allowing home building in these areas. Crazy
NickRivieraMD
more importantly, why should the rest of us help foot the bill for the obscenely wealthy to replace these particular homes
AlphaStructural
Rancho Palos Verdes is actively working on mitigating the risks through engineering solutions like dewatering wells to manage underground water and slow land movement. The goal is to balance development with safety and environmental considerations. We will just have to wait and see if it works.
dashers
Why is it moving so much more than before?
AlphaStructural
The RPV landslide is moving faster this year due to heavy rains from recent seasons increasing underground water levels. They approved a new plan to installing dewatering wells to remove excess water and slow the movement.
Carl99
Thank you, came looking for this.
Wirefish
Why does anyone try to build there? Seems that area has been unstable forever.
AlphaStructural
Has been quite some time, you're no longer allowed to build there even if you wanted to.
Wirefish
That’s a relief. I guess these are all legacy from before building was banned? So…are you inspecting them to see if they’re ready to be condemned? Or is it more about determining how much further the land has moved?
hipifreq
This level of activation of slides is terrifying. We've got lots of deep-seated slides along the Puget Sound with tens of thousands of homes at risk. Many think it's the waves eroding from the bottom and are dumbfounded when I tell them that their problems begin above
AlphaStructural
Landslides can be triggered by a combination of factors, including soil saturation, slope instability, and structural issues. The waves eroding the base of the slopes can certainly contribute to the problem, but most likely the issues originate from above!
IHaveGreatKittenRecipes
At which point does it stop being creep and start being mass wasting? I feel like a two metre drop in your backyard within a season might motivate me to get the hell out of dodge but I guess that's why I can't afford to live in this neighbourhood! Absolutely batty that they're still there and not bailing out like rats from the Titanic.
hipifreq
That baffles me as well. It's tough to sell once the land moves, but if the next neighborhood over goes then maybe it's time to talk to a realtor...
hipifreq
They come to me asking about a new bulkhead to protect their property and then I get to tell them that their septic and irrigation systems are more of a problem than waves. Recessional outwash over dense glacial clay is not a good mix when it gets saturated... Puget Sound waves never get bigger than 2-3 ft in a big storm, so aren't as big a problem as the outer coast.
CptBoomBoom
Why are they prohibiting 2 wheeled vehicles but not 4 wheeled vehicles?
fivehelicopter
My guess would be that they don't want bikes falling into crevasses.
CheeseIsNaturesFudge
Right? I'm guessing maybe they meant 2wd vehicles as it is only 4wd accessible now maybe?
WaterUnderTheRocketAppliances
A new and unexpected foot high bump in the road could be deadly to a motorcycle driver, but probably just badly fuck up a car.
AlphaStructural
Yeah so they have temporarily banned two-wheeled vehicles, which include bicycles and motorcycles, from a two-mile stretch of Palos Verdes Drive South.
originalhuman
Why is the ground sinking?
AlphaStructural
An ancient landslidew has been causing this area to shift for over 30 eyars now, but the drastic change in momvement is due to the heavier than average rains that we have had in the last two years. We are seeing more movement in a week than we have seen in a year in the past!
scuba7jb
Ok, random question..... so how does this work with official / legal property lines?? Because those are typically recorded with a super accurate latitude & longitude coordinate. If the ground has shifted, how do you legally determine who owns what?
RooGryphon
goverment comes in buys all property kicks ya all out and bulldozes houses
cyanideremark
Don't like your common boundary? Just chill and give it a few weeks.. it's now a sliding scale!
vanbarbee
Property lines generally don't change when the ground within the lines shifts.
25nqzhg8x23
Finders keepers?
demianstine
It's odd how it works with property lines. To be certain, not only do you have to have a surveyor look at your personal documents, for instance, your deed which describes your property, but he would also have to look into local historical documents about the space you live in. And then if it came to a disagreement he could give a legal opinion in court.
Leithoa
Probably depends on if everyone shifted together or if one property shifted onto the other. In the short term you re-survey where practical but for a lot of these homes they're probably going to be condemned.
cloverleafbane
Your surveyed property is a spatial reference based on dimension and distance from a known static point.
You own the ground within that spatial boundary. If it moves you just own new ground but it's still within the same space.
nefroye
So what you're saying is - if you want a new house just buy a vacant lot and wait a while, until your neighbor's eventually shifts onto your property? Cool!
cloverleafbane
It free real estate!
davcam
Brings a new meaning to "I'm coming for your land"
WhoDoesntLikeTacos
Rock paper scissors
DancesLikeDriftwood
putcleverusernamehere
Think of latitude longitude as a point in space above the ground with the ground moving underneath the latitude/longitude grid. The property lines don't move, the earth shifts under the lines. If your house slides across the imaginary lines, it's now in your neighbor's yard, your yard didn't move
JeanLucguizamos
Fight to the death!
WhoDoesntLikeTacos
If they don't fight to the death we will kill them both!
davcam
Hemispheres
They are going to have a Pangea property line pretty soon.
JayEnfield
Does your area have ANY solid ground?
QotU
This is SoCal. I live in the San Andreas Fault myself. The answer is “but at least I don’t have to worry about liquefaction here” in my little desert corner.
AlphaStructural
Yeahhh...... maybe not.
JayEnfield
Every one of your posts for the last how many years has been like "so here's where the ground just decided to fuck off through this retaining wall" and "here's where a chunk of the hill yearns to go join the river down in the valley". Is the area really that spongey everywhere?
JayEnfield
(To be clear, I'm not complaining, your content is fascinating. Just very unfamiliar despite being HVAC crawling around under everyone's home for 5 years. :D )
cosinewave
Seems like any effort to save homes in that area would be pointless with that much soil movement.
fancygiraph
It’s got amazing ocean views. These are multi million dollar houses. But you are right I would move
ThePunishersVengefulBrother
Sounds like they're moving either way.
dirque
Put all the houses on big ole rollers.
donkeymoney
buy a boat
wouldClimbForCash
Sort of a, drumroll, mobile home?
MarkoffChaney
In Finland one guy did that. He wasn't allowed to build a stationary house on his property, so he built one on wheels and claimed it's not a house it's a caravan.
andexer
Take your insurance money and leave
Snuggelapolous
It's some of the highest priced real-estate in the country. I imagine alot of these people are loosing massive property value fast.
RooGryphon
denied
RaynWisp
That sounds... optimistic.
RaynWisp
I don't know about Brazil, but I know in California damage from "earth movement" is practically never covered - especially if it's an entire neighborhood.
JonatasAM
Why mention Brazil?
Blud4BludGod
What about Brazil? This is a city in California.
JonatasAM
You can tell by the paint color it isn't Brazil. And it looking American overall too. We should have Street View sessions somewhere, to show the contrast of residential areas between different cultures.
RaynWisp
Oh wow, I saw Portuguese and immediately went to Brazil, lol. Well yeah then, there's no insurance paying out here.
Syovere
Just in general. Like, can any of us truly say that we know about Brazil? /s
RooGryphon
yep time to remove the people and let the land return to a natural state
JonatasAM
What if California decides to go somewhere else. Will we just let it?
RooGryphon
well, mom's coming round to put it back the way it ought to be....
ihaveanouttie