"the most evil man I ever met"

May 30, 2022 9:47 PM

KnowThePattttts

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FBI Special Agent John E. Douglas once described Lawrence Bittaker as the most disturbing individual for whom he has ever created a criminal profile. Bittaker and Roy Norris, also known as the Tool Box Killers, committed the kidnapping, rape, torture, and murder of five teenage girls in southern California over a five-month period in 1979.

Some of the bodies of the disappeared girls were never recovered. Norris and Bittaker became known as the "Tool Box Killers" because the majority of instruments used to torture and murder their victims were items normally stored inside a household toolbox, like pliers, ice picks, and sledgehammers.

Particularly contributing to the killers' infamy, especially Bittaker's, is an audio tape the pair had created of their abuse and torment of their final victim, Shirley.

Shirley Lynette Ledford was just 16 years old when she was abducted by the evil pair. The audiotape of her torture, considered to be one of the most disturbing ever, was the most damning evidence presented at Bittaker's trial. It had been found inside Bittaker's van.

Prosecutor Stephen Kay forewarned the jury: "For those of you who do not know what hell is like, you will find out."

...

More than 100 people were present in the courtroom as the tape was played, and many members of both the jury and the audience wept openly upon hearing the contents, with several members of the audience either burying their heads in their hands, dabbing tears from their eyes or rushing out of the courtroom before the tape had finished. Some had run out to vomit.

Stephen Kay was reduced to tears and  walked out of the courtroom. Weeping openly, Kay stated to the reporters gathered outside the courtroom: "Everybody who has heard that tape has had it affect their lives. I just picture those girls ... how alone they were when they died."

Bittaker laughed in court as the tape was being played. He considered the contents to be "real funny".

Detective Paul Bynum, the chief investigator involved in catching Bittaker and Norris, committed suicide years after the two were found guilty. In his suicide note, he outlined that one of his main reasons was his fear of the two ever being released from jail.

When Scott Glenn was preparing for the role of Jack Crawford in The Silence of the Lambs, he met with John E. Douglas who played for him that audio tape. Glenn wept as he listened to the recordings, and even changed his liberal stance on the death penalty, since then becoming a staunch defender of it.

This a transcript of the tape, very disturbing: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/watchingrobertpickton88015/transcript-of-shirley-lynette-ledford-audio-record-t3312.html

Roy Norris himself said:

"We've all heard women scream in horror films ... still, we know that no-one is really screaming. Why? Simply because an actress can't produce some sounds that convince us that something vile and heinous is happening. If you ever heard that tape, there is just no possible way that you'd not begin crying and trembling. I doubt you could listen to more than a full sixty seconds of it."

In the closing argument delivered by the prosecution, Kay apologized to the jury that he was only asking for the death penalty, adding that he wished the law permitted him to request that the same suffering be inflicted upon Bittaker that he had inflicted upon his victims.

Stephen Kay calls the Norris and Bittaker case the most brutal in his 37-year career." Kay said the tape was so raw, everyone who has listened to it has suffered some psychological problems at some point.

Both killers outlived more than half of the mothers of the victims, half of the jurors in Bittaker’s case, the lead detective and many others involved in the trial. Bittaker and Norris died of natural causes a few years ago. Bittaker used to sign autographs for the other inmates in prison. His signature was "Pliers" Bittaker.

The other victims were Lucinda Schaefer (pictured here), Andrea Joy Hall, Jackie Doris Gilliam and Jacqueline Leah Lamp.

May they R.I.P.

That’s a big Oof.

4 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 4

Yikes… my husband just got a jury summons. Can you imagine having to serve on a case like this? Awful.

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

In no way can I imagine sitting on this jury.

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Monsters are real.

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I haven’t listened to it because I’m already crying too hard. There is no god. Also those guys should’ve been burned alive.

4 years ago | Likes 31 Dislikes 0

I have to agree although I’m kind of against the death penalty bc of too many innocents. Drawing/quartering would be a good start for them.

4 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

When it's this clear though, him laughing about it...

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

People aren't against the death penalty because they don't believe there evil people in the world.

4 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 5

You can justify anything against the worst most clearly guilty people you can imagine but it's rarely that cut and dry even when it should

4 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 0

Have to be. Innocence until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt exists only on TV, in the real world we look up innocent people all the

4 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

Lock*.

4 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Why do I allow my morbid curiosity to let me read shit like that link. Fuck.

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

In my field I have heard a few stories as disturbing as this 1. These stories hurt me for a long time, which is why I don't tell them 2 ppl.

4 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 2

FYI they both died only a couple years ago. Lived most of their lives in prison but they still got to live, unlike their victims.

4 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

Yeah I heard a little bit of it years ago and tho I love learning about serial killers, this is one case I don’t go near now

4 years ago | Likes 144 Dislikes 2

Early 2000's? Back when there were all those legitimate murders and rapes and snuff films on the net? Yeah, I never got over it all either

4 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

It was about 2010-12ish I think

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

started reading that transcript. Had to stop pretty quickly. I couldn't imagine hearing the actual tape

4 years ago | Likes 39 Dislikes 0

Yeah I think I almost threw up tbh. I was trying to desensitize myself to see if I was really interested in a certain career after college 1

4 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 0

2 so I’d seen and heard some awful things but that’s def one of the ones that sticks with me still

4 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

I played him in the Toolbox Killer special. He's haunting

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I wonder if the FBI profilers ever interviewed them. That would be good on Mindhunter if it ever returns.

4 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 1

They did

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

above comments say it was done

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Do not listen to that….seriously, some things should not be heard

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

There's no freaking possible way that they only killed 5 people.

4 years ago | Likes 912 Dislikes 2

I agree

4 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 0

Absolutely

4 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 0

agree

4 years ago | Likes 311 Dislikes 0

Fucking hell poor girls

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

With little communication back then everyone was just a “runaway”. So many missing people cases should be reinvestigated.

4 years ago | Likes 170 Dislikes 1

Lots of girls did run away then, escaping sexual abuse at home that nobody would help them with.

4 years ago | Likes 24 Dislikes 0

Yes and no one followed up where they ended up.

4 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 1

This still happens today. In TX unless there's "evidence" of kidnapping its considered just another case of runaway.

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

I’m not surprised

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Don't click the link, it's not necessary to put your mind through that. Maybe @OP should put a warning.

4 years ago | Likes 54 Dislikes 5

5 am on moving day for me. Biggest regret

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Really wish I saw this sooner. Fucking hell, man.

4 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 2

I'm nominally opposed to the death penalty. But in open shut cases such as this one, with audio the accused is laughing at? Send 'em to Hell

4 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 2

Same here. These...beasts...weren't five black kids accused by a white female victim...or a mentally challenged POC abused by the system.

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Indeed. As I said, has to be ironclad open and shut. In those instances? Bailiff has a gun, Janitor has a mop.

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I hate to bring it up because of the Argentinian similarities, but have them thrown out of a USAF planes with no chute. No additional cost.

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Jet Fuel is expensive.

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

No way in hell am I clicking that link. Nothing personal, but shit this stuff is like the Paul Benardo killings.

4 years ago | Likes 362 Dislikes 1

I heard parts of the tape... back when, early 2000's. Don't click the link, don't search for the audio, just.... just fucking don't.

4 years ago | Likes 31 Dislikes 0

You made the right call. Don’t click on it.

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I still sleep poorly over the 19 children. Fearful for my own. I live in Australia. Couldn't pay me to read that and add to the weight

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

I read most of it... You're better off.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I read a book about him when I was a kid, it left marks.

4 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Don’t click it only got like a tenth the way and I regret it.

4 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

I read some. I wish I didn't. Holy shit. Holy shit that's messed up.

4 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 0

Yeah I regret even the cursory scan. Pretty much ruined my night and I doubt I’ll ever forget it now. Beyond disturbing, incredibly horrific

4 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Im autistic with an iron trap memory. I have an itch to know things, in this case i think ill stick with the itch.

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Stay away friend. The itch is definitely not worth the scratch.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

No one needs to hear that fucking tape or read the transcripts. Seriously. Why the fuck post that?!?

4 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 7

then dont click it. nobody's fucking forcing you.

4 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 7

I’m not going to click it, but I don’t want some incel with an AR15 and a grudge against women getting a fucking hard on. Show some decency.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 5

decency is informing people on facts, not looking the other way because it's uncomfortable. you worrying about "hard ons" is a you problem.

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 3

Oh Lord, they are indeed pure evil, they should have suffered first before they die. I just can't imagine the pain victims suffered w/ them.

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

Jesus Christ. How do you restrain yourself from at minimum not bursting in pure rage at the psychopath?

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Psychopaths are an interesting group. Most psychopaths are productive, law abiding citizens. Only a small percentage become monsters

4 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 3

In footage of this w/ audio you can hear the recording of the girl being tortured being played for the jury, it is beyond description.

4 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

Look up to my reply to @calvarysword

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Can’t do that. I read the transcript. That was enough to give me nightmares

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

I can't even do that

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It was traumatizing without the sound. I’m in pain.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I will take your word for it and offer my sympathies that you were exposed to such evil. Take solace in that they're dead now.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

For anyone doubting the death penalty, cue up the tape!

4 years ago | Likes 42 Dislikes 32

I'd rather they rot in jail for life than have innocent people murdered by the state.

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

Is that a thing that's available?

4 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 0

I’m against the death penalty because we’ve undoubtedly executed innocent people that did no crime.

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

What an idiotic statement.

4 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 6

Yeah, no video would change my mind. There are worse things than the death penalty.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I don't trust 12 randos to make the right decision is the problem. People are incredibly stupid sometimes. While of course exaggerated 1/

4 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

for entertainment, "What about Pam" pinpoints how corrupt or stupid our 'justice' system can be. That is why I don't support the 2/

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

death penalty. Because I'd rather serial killers die of old age, than kill innocent people who are victims of a flawed legal system.

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

Most people live never knowing when or how they will die. Monsters on death row know exactly when to expect an easy, painless death.

4 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

And that is their power. We need to take that power from them. Death row neds to be a roulette.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

That's what Dahmer thought.

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

That's an easy problem to solve.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Except they don’t. Oftentimes the date will be moved around due to legal issues, material issues, etc. Living constantly unsure of when

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

You’ll be killed can be considered cruel and unusual punishment, which is against the 8th amendment (assuming US)

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Most don't doubt the death penalty, they doubt the system that gives the sentence

4 years ago | Likes 49 Dislikes 0

Fuck them

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 8

And I’m a liberal. I’m a person. Fuck the people who can’t see these people have to die.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 6

They did die. In prison, where the general public was safe from them.

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

I would upvote this 1,000 times if I could.

4 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 0

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

For anyone endorsing the death penalty, go out to the Innocence Project and read about 250 men (so far) released from death row based on DNA

4 years ago | Likes 81 Dislikes 12

But these guys were guilty...beyond a reasonable doubt.

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 3

If there is a RECORDING OF RHEAE TWO SADO-MASOCHIST DEAMONS KILLING THIS INNOCENT GIRL, they are not innocent. I don’t care WHO THEY ARE.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 3

People on death row last YUEEAARRSSSS. PLENTY OF TIME TO FIND OTHER EVIDENCE.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 3

“It’s okay to put them on death row even if they’re innocent. They might be exonerated later”

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

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4 years ago (deleted May 31, 2022 1:44 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

t

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

ah yes, Imgur - where all discussions are rational and thoughtful within 140 characters

4 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 6

I was deleted. ?

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 3

Sometimes we comment chain!

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Can we study the brain chemistry of these people? What allows them and moves them to do this?

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

On the bright side, they're both dead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Bittaker_and_Roy_Norris

4 years ago | Likes 59 Dislikes 0

Every day for their life stretch they should’ve had an 8d nail driven into a bone in some location of their body. Every day.

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Damn they didn’t deserve to live

4 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 1

Some people in this world truly make me wish Hell was a real place.

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

They both died in ways that are totally unfair. They deserved hell

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

I'm sure that's on the cards, too.\

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Sadly both got to live a life, even if in prison, to be over 70.

4 years ago | Likes 24 Dislikes 1

I can't imagine listening to that tape. Just reading through the transcript was regretful.

4 years ago | Likes 24 Dislikes 0

Yeah, it was tough to get through. I just can’t wrap my head around that kind of evil. How people can be that cruel and have zero empathy.

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Yeah, they're broken in the worst possible, irredeemable ways

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I can't even bring myself to click the link.

4 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

Don’t click it

4 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

I've seen enough comments here from those who have. Would rather not see true evil.

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

And don’t even look at their Wikipedia page. There is too much detail there for peace of mind. I am still bothered a day later.

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

I glanced at it but didn't really read a whole lot of it. I figured I'd be better off just leaving it at that.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I think an amped up, supercharged version of "eye for an eye", would be the ideal. If unequivically found guilty of the crimes these two>

4 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 2

like the Chinese "torture of 1,000 days". Each day one body part was removed, the goal being to keep the subject alive the full 1,000 days

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Something like that. Let them understand first hand, the pain they inflicted upon their victims.

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Committed, as they were, they should die, with no waiting, in a more gruesome drawn out way than in which they killed their victims. >

4 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 2

Somehow, Bittaker, I think wouldn't find it so funny anymore, especially when you keep bringing him back from death to continue on. >

4 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

Frankly, if you've been "beyond a shadow of a doubt", found guilty, then why offer "life in prison"? At most 1 year and then >

4 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 2

Removed from existence. In a manner that matches the way you ended a life.

4 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 2

Because evidence findings change, and the idea that we all have right to life. Even the worst of us. How many folks have been sentenced to

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

It's really rare that 2 psychopaths team up to kill.

4 years ago | Likes 45 Dislikes 1

Like, how the fuck did they even start that conversation? I’m morbidly interested.

4 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

There is a podcast called Morbid. They covered these two really well. I will warn you though. It’s a tough listen.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

You’ve never been to 4chan or Facebook groups i see…

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

There's hundreds of them working together in congress.

4 years ago | Likes 71 Dislikes 6

JFC, this is dark but it got a chuckle from me.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Wtf man I'm just trying to chill out a bit before I start working. If I wanted to read about this kind of misery, I'd watch the news.

4 years ago | Likes 33 Dislikes 13

Seriously. There are plenty of podcasts and shit for this. The whole world likes drama and doomscrolling apparently.

4 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 11

I agree... and constantly get downvotes for saying similar... just know you're not alone, regardless of the numbers you get

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

I mean.. this is rough... but imgur isn't the place for just some relaxing atm... death and destruction are constantly on display it seems

4 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 3

You're not wrong. I have a brain that soaks in anything I come across. Hasn't been fun lately.

4 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 1

Same... but I get told "just scroll over it" or "leave if you don't like it" or a new one today "you're trying to suppress information"...

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

nobody forced you to click on the post or read anywhere past the title lmfao

4 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 12

I don't understand comments like this... were they supposed to be telepathic and know where it was going? I know it becomes obvious, but dam

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

As an ex-cop, I can attest that there are truly evil people in the world. I also know that we overuse/misuse the death penalty.

4 years ago | Likes 536 Dislikes 17

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4 years ago (deleted Jun 24, 2022 11:45 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

Fucking what?

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I oppose the death penalty, but not for any moral or ethical reason. I think it's too easy. I think it should be hard labor for the rest of

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 2

Your days. If you work, you eat. If not, you starve to death. No days off, never ending in your contribution to society until you die.

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

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4 years ago (deleted Jun 24, 2022 11:45 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

For any individual who intentionally goes to any school to cause harm. CAN YOU SAY THE SAME? -2

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 5

One of the persons who shot up Westside school tried to get a gun permit years later because he was out of prison because his juvenile >

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 4

Records had been sealed. Luckily the person in Arkansas knew the story, and even though the records had been SEALED, he refused to sell >

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 3

I’m personally opposed to the death penalty- for many reasons- but acknowledge that reasonable, moral people can differ on this. If society

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

is going to have a death penalty, I would assert that it should ONLY be available when guilt is not in doubt, only the level of culpability.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

See Colin Ferguson, as an example.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Except can you really ever be 100% sure that the guilt is in no doubt? Pre-DNA findings, I’m sure folks were 100% sure of guild

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Guilt*

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Yes, you can be- that’s why I mentioned Colin Ferguson. He was captured in the process of killing several people when his intended victims

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

I firmly believe some people deserve to die. I also believe that executing an innocent person is literally the most unjust thing imaginable>

4 years ago | Likes 48 Dislikes 1

That alone is enough to take death penalty off the table for me. If it means that some horrible people live long lives in prison, so be it.>

4 years ago | Likes 27 Dislikes 2

Preach!

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

The protection of the innocent is the supreme goal of anything that purports to call itself justice.

4 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 0

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4 years ago (deleted Jun 24, 2022 11:45 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

Refused to sell the Westside shooter a gun, because he recognized the person, even though he had changed his name. Thank god.

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 4

Yeah the problem with the death penalty isn't that nobody deserves it. It is that we can't trust the state to always get it right. ->

4 years ago | Likes 24 Dislikes 2

Letting monsters get old in jail is an acceptable price to pay for not mistakenly executing innocents.

4 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 0

If your an ex cop you’ve covered for some of them. Cops and criminals have the same motivation, just chose different professions.

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 6

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4 years ago (deleted Jun 24, 2022 11:45 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

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4 years ago (deleted Jun 24, 2022 11:45 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

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4 years ago (deleted Jun 24, 2022 11:45 AM) | Likes 0 Dislikes 0

I don't actually disagree but I'm not willing to condemn innocent men to death just to make sure some men receive vengeance.

4 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 2

But these aren’t innocent men. There are recordings of their voices , and hers while she is being tortured!

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 10

It's not that some people aren't so vile they don' deserve to die or that we question their innocence but that as a society we have no right

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

Innocent men? There is a recording of them torturing her!! Would it be different if it was a male? They were both sentenced to die

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 12

Between the innocent men who’ve been convicted & the appeal process takes more than it costs to house them in general population? I’m with 1

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

The families of a murder victims who say to put these guys to the mercies of the general population & take away the privileges. 2

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

The families of a murder victims who say to put these guys to the mercies of the general population & take away the privileges. 2

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

The life at the hands of fellow inmates beats one short lethal injection. Or keep Death penalty & just revoke solitary while they wait3

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Yeah, and as long as death penalty is on the table it will be misused. Keeping someone isolated for the remainder of their lives is still a

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

worse than just being killed. It literally serves no purpose far as punishment goes. The killers won't enjoy their lives in prison when kept

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

isolated. It's actually considered torture in the European Court of human rights. But, the prisoners can't be kept with others bc of their

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

own safety. So isolation it is! We've had serial killers proved to be innocent, as they've been manipulated by police and psychs. Being fed

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

info that only law enforcement would know about. Then it's taken as irrefutable evidence in court. With modern tech I won't be surprised if

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

As one of those liberals that believes the primary purpose of prison should be rehabilitation, I fully accept some cannot/shouldnot be saved

4 years ago | Likes 216 Dislikes 5

I still dont believe in the death penalty. Prisons should be for rehab. We need other places for those who cannot be.

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I'm not fundamentally opposed to capital punishment, but I definitely think it's practically misused to the point that it should be banned.

4 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 1

I believe some people can't be saved and may they rot in jail for the rest of their lives.

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Prison generally serves three purposes: punishment of the convicted, rehabilitation, and the protection of society. Some must never leave.

4 years ago | Likes 20 Dislikes 1

Nobody knows how to do rehabilitation.

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

This is why life in jail is actually until death in captivity, the rest of your life, in the Netherlands. It doesn't get sentenced lightly

4 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Personally I think a three strike clause is reasonable. Kill three people and you become eligible for the death penalty.

4 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

That's actually pretty damn reasonable. 1, maybe 2 if there's a bystander, that might be heat of the moment. 3 or more is a plan.

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

I can't support it because I know that if it were allowed under any circumstances innocent people would be executed by mistake/carelessness.

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

humane treatment should only apply for humane crimes.

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 1

Nah, generally we are better than those we put away. Not always, but we should never decend to the level of those committing crimes

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

i have never understood the concept of "their level." it always seemed disingenuous at best, outright fallacious at worst.

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Ok, consider that administering a cruel person's actions on an official level is giving a level of credence

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

The hard part is telling them apart and being absolutely sure. That said, there are some few cases like this where you can be sure, right?

4 years ago | Likes 76 Dislikes 0

DNA evidence being should automatically HAVE to be reviewed and be a requirement as part getting a death penalty conviction.

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Indeed

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Of course I don't have any idea how you'd codify that law. Death penalty is only allowed if you're extra super duper sure, yet a conviction»

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

is already supposed to be unanimous and beyond a shadow of a doubt from the jury, but of course they make mistakes all the time.

4 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I think Mindhunter on Netflix dealt with him a bit

4 years ago | Likes 99 Dislikes 1

What people won’t do to each other what people won’t do ?

4 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

I missed that. Which episode?

4 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 0

.

4 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

Season 1.8 but just talking about tape he was listening to

4 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 0

Man, I wish that show was still going

4 years ago | Likes 56 Dislikes 0

ya, netflix killing off another good show

4 years ago | Likes 17 Dislikes 2

It’s not Netflix, David Fincher doesn’t want to make another season at the moment.

4 years ago | Likes 15 Dislikes 0

Thanks Dave.

4 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 0

4 years ago | Likes 13 Dislikes 0

“At the moment”?! It’s been like what 3-4 years now? -.-… Dammit!

4 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

A long moment lol

4 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0