lovehandlesmessiah
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There's nothing like Catholic dogma to make someone question religion in general. The same goes for the abortion debate where adult humans who readily vote think a soul is incarnated when a sperm enters the ovum. It's enough to make you want people to understand the fundamentals of human development before they're allowed to vote or write policy on it.
I mean, after all, if a woman or child is raped according to Todd Akin, "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," right? And as George Carlin said, "How come when it's us, it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette? Are we so much better than chickens all of a sudden?"
Quixus
Just to nitpick the eggs in the omelette are not fertilized.
SubTrout
I remember in college, a professor was doing the "get to know you" stuff, and asked about religion (wasn't mandatory or anything, just anyone who felt like sharing). They asked if anyone was atheist/agnostic, and three of us raised our hands. They asked why, and I half-jokingly said "Because I was raised Catholic." The other two said "Same".
Noodlesocks
The eggs you eat aren't fertilised which makes cum a-ok.
BecauseCanadian
I hate to be that guy because I love the analogy, but I need to point out we eat unfertilized eggs. We’re eating chicken periods, not fetuses
RoutemasterFlash
I'm seeing an awful lot of arguments on Imgur lately that have their heart in the right place but are absolutely terrible and make no sense at all.
awarriorstill
What about identical twins? Did they only get half a soul?
lovehandlesmessiah
Depends if their gingers or not.
HandoB4Javert
DarkRedCape
AxelBeingCivil
The eggs you eat for breakfast are not fertilized. The Catholic position on abortion is - in theory, at least - tied to Catholic social teaching on the value of a human being. Since a fetus will, barring some calamity, grow one day into a human being, it is deemed necessary to protect it. Any qualifiers on why it shouldn't be protected are qualifiers you can use to diminish the value of other human beings, making personhood acquired, rather than innate. I'm not defending this stance, but it (1)
AxelBeingCivil
is a very important one to understand. The fundamental, inherent dignity of the human being is very, very important as a concept in Catholicism. One the Church, of course, does not and has not always lived up to. But if you want to argue with them, this is the teaching you need to address. (2)
LumpPump
all i know is their stance against abortion is the perfect thing for rapists to take advantage of, thanks tot hem they are creating a safe haven for rapists to rape a baby into who ever they want #godSupportsRapists and they will disgustingly say it was gods will to have the baby raped into em
kleinkaasje
#1
kellokellsmf
I always thought that marsupials were like one of the best evolutions that mammals have ever come up with… for the purpose survivability for the mothers/offspring out in the wild & alone. The babies come out looking like little chicken nuggets. Embryos make me think of chicken nuggets… I don’t know… They all look the same. Back to work.
michaelfire
Control. The extreme view on this issue is about control. https://www.colorado.edu/asmagazine/2022/06/24/there-no-one-religious-view-abortion-scholar-religion-gender-and-sexuality-explains
imwrongontheinternet
I could be wrong, but wasn't abortion ok with catholics up to the quickening, around the end of the first trimester, until Vatican 2.
Eidodk
An egg isn't an aborted fetus though. It's an unfertilized ovum. It was never going to be a chicken.
Grapeape2000
You want logic...from Catholic dogma...Let me introduce you to "The Trinity"
Penguinofmyspirit
No lie, I firmly believe the Catholic Church is evil. I don’t think it’s possible to fully count up the death toll of the Catholic Church and it’s just as impossible to number the victims of abuse either.
LuminoZero
Have you tried counting up the societal and scientific advances of the Church as well? Not saying the Church hasn't done evil, because it has, just making sure we're counting the fact that the Catholic Church, among other things, was the major sponsor of science in European History.
LumpPump
and they locked people away for discovering things and trying to teach it to soon, so how fucking gracious of them to allow us to advance ever and at all huh? *spits*. the one that found out the world revolved around the sun was locked away by the catholic church so he wouldnt tell anyone untill they thought the world was ready to know..
LuminoZero
Never let facts get in the way of a good lynching, eh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus
StillWittyMFs
I’m all for abortion rights, but this is a terrible analogy. We eat unfertilized eggs. It’s entirely dissimilar.
H0LLAND1
Finally, a voice of logic and reason
ShipForBrains
As someone who owns chickens and a couple roosters, that’s not always true… but commercially, yeah
agathos
Nothing like setting up to bake a cake and cracking a fertilized egg into the bowl. It's always the last egg, too.
StillWittyMFs
I am now disturbed by the thought of a beak in my omelet.
ShipForBrains
Don’t worry, if you want a crunchy omelette you need to wait a while before cracking that egg 😉
RoutemasterFlash
Some legally-minded monks in the middle ages decided that ducks and geese could be eaten on Fridays, since they lived on or near water and therefore kinda count as fish.
RedWingedBlackbirds
I'm curious what ways the female body has to shut that down. Has he ever been asked to spell them out?
Tomcat1982
"Oh, you know..." *gestures vaguely*
Howdoyouknowshesawitch
I am pro choice, but the egg argument is dumb. The eggs we eat aren't fetuses, they're basically the hen's period.
JadeNB1729
Is that Fillion as Castle? I always assumed it was Fillion as Mal.
Brhino
Then there was the time the pope declared that capybara are fish (so the missionaries trying to win over the native South Americans didn't have to tell them they couldn't eat one of their main protein sources once a week)
Tomcat1982
Hmm, seems arbitrary.
gerf
TBH, if the abstaining thing will hurt your health, it's exempt. The whole thing isn't to do health damage.
Sulexar
It's really astounding how many people think eggs aren't meat. Or that fish isn't meat. Or that anything other than cow or pig isn't meat. There's really a lot of stupid people on this planet.
RoutemasterFlash
"Meat" means the flesh of animals. It usually doesn't include fish, although fish are obviously animals too, since it's usually taken to mean birds or mammals. But no, eggs are obviously not "meat."
AgainstMethod
I don't think eggs are meat. Meat is fibrous muscle (or at least organ) tissue. Eggs are biologically and culinarily very different. In general, biological and culinary categories don't have to line up.
ToolPackinMama
Meat is muscle tissue, so NO, eggs are not meat. Is milk meat? Use your brain. If you object to animal anything, even honey, then that is different, but honey is not meat.
Tomcat1982
jskoggs11365
Lol. You can't be serious. Need to work on your trolling bud.
SomeDetroitGuy
Eggs aren't meat. I don't think you quite understand what meat is.
SinStar87
The edible part of an animal?
RoutemasterFlash
Eggs are produced by animals. They are not "part of an animal."
SinStar87
Interesting take on cells. do you feel the dead skin cells on you or me are part of us?
AgainstMethod
... do you think the dead skin cells falling off of you are meat?
RoutemasterFlash
That's not the definition of "meat", though, is it, genius. Hair and fingernails are not "meat." I have absolutely no interest in being dragged into your sealioning vortex of nonsense, but no, to anyone who speaks enough English to know the meaning of the words "egg" and "meat", eggs are obviously not meat.
Idonotkillpeoplethatismyleastfavoritethingtodo
What about miscarriages? Do they go to heaven because they were innocent babies? Is heaven full of fetuses? Or is heaven full of babies? Do fetuses and embryos develop to a certain point in heaven and then stop? Where is the cutoff? 3 years? 9? Maybe 18? Is heaven full of billions of barely legal infinitly old ancients? Please explain Pope.
SchmotGuys
TalleyZorah
#1 I'm with you on the overarching stance, but the analogy needs a little work. Eggs only become chickens if they're fertilized, and they lay almost daily regardless of fertilized or not. This is also why some vegans still eat eggs (provided the farm is cruelty-free). Just a heads up.
RandallKavanaugh
Whether you're a religionist, or stauncly non-theist, have a scientific mindset, or a spiritual one, this book is a wild ride through millenia of we humans trying to figure out where we fit, all while a subset of humans tries to exert control over the rest of us. As engrossing and entertaining as it is scholarly, it will leave you mad at what's been stolen from us, and how much different our present might have been.
lovehandlesmessiah
mikeymikec
Unfortunately there's plenty of stories of people who claim to be faithful Christians who went to get an abortion, because while theirs is "necessary", even the medical staff who help them are evil and anyone else who needs one is a murdering slut.
Higure
Matthew 7:1-5 has some choice words to say about that. Just in case anyone wants to quote scripture at them.
LumpPump
if only that worked, so many of them will hear that and probably say some bullshit about "god always forgives" cause they think they are above the rules cause their god is supposly forgiving of everything from murder to rape and hell i guess even pedophiles if the priests getting away with it are anything to go by.. as long as you love cathlotic/christan god hard enough you canmake up your own loopholes ugh
AxelBeingCivil
Radical forgiveness is actually one of Christianity's best ideas, but it's predicated on the idea that you actually seek to change and reform. Everyone should always be able to decide to change their ways and improve as a person.
SheepySleepySmuggler
My tapeworm tells me what to do...
HomeRunWoman
gucchan13
PULL THE TAPEWORM OUT OF YOUR ASS
innkeep
HEY!
Ultratoxic
Don't you know? Christians rules are for other people. They have a "forever forgiven" pass from ol Gee Whiz that let's them do whatever that want. But you don't. You have to follow the rules or they will kill you. On behalf of ol Gee Whiz because he's too busy or something.
AxelBeingCivil
Tapeworms do not actually have hearts, nor do they feel pain. They don't even have mouths. They're actually pretty fascinating: Their body structure is so simple that they can actually survive purely by absorbing/excreting through their skin. And most of the organism isn't dedicated to survival; it's basically just a giant egg-shedding machine. They're a pretty spectacular parasite; so perfectly evolved for their purpose.
PeenusosaurusRex
The perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility.
AxelBeingCivil
Personally, I think flagellated cyanobacteria are about as close to perfect as you get in an organism, but parasites in particular are often just so wonderfully suited to their purpose because of the intensity of the competition between them and hosts.
lovehandlesmessiah
You admire it…
GoW1n
As a pro-choice person, it’s not at all hard to refute this in a way that doesn’t feel hypocritical. Non-human, no potential to be human. And if this is the type of argument pro-choicers put out there, it speaks to the “weakness” of the pro choice position. It seems funny, but we shouldn’t think this convinces anyone or makes them feel a moment of doubt.
WireHairLongDoggie
MechKelly
Same with an infection. Better not take antibiotics to get rid of it.
istry555
Actually, in the Middle Ages the Catholic Church did forbid eggs during lent and other fast days. Also, not eating meat wasn't about "not eating life", it was a comparison with Jesus' sacrifice of the flesh, yes, but was abstaining from traditionally luxurious and expensive foods (not life specifically or fish would have always been off the table). So there's no abortion comparison to begin with.
MelonTrolley
It kills me that people think all chicken eggs are fertilized. 😂 Those eggs you have in your fridge to eat, are never turning into chickens. Yall need to brush up on your science. This meme would have been fantastic, it was so close to being great if it weren’t for that slight *misconception.*
LuminoZero
Just go to show that arrogant twats spitting bullshit is a secular issue.
StagBullSwitch
I see what you did there.....
LumpPump
not always true i've had a tiny fetus in my farmer sold eggs before. look at you doing the same thing you are laughing at cause you want to conveniently forget there are people out there getting farm fresh eggs if they can, they still exist even if they arent commercially available
MelonTrolley
I’ve actually had that happen too! Missing the point though. When that happens, it’s because the wrooong type of egg was put in there lol. 😉
scoutMoonDiver
Burke616
Steal a bible from a hotel room and you'll be smarter than all of those, as you got a bible without paying for it.
LuminoZero
Ready for a real brain teaser? Atheists are on equal standing, logically speaking, with true believers. Believers are SURE God exists, Atheists are SURE God doesn't exist, neither one of them has the ability to properly test for it. Agnosticism is the only belief system that's 100% logical.
FallingStar7669
From a purely logical standpoint stripped of all else, you might be correct; however, your argument is lacking: the evidence overwhelmingly favors the atheist. Every mystery of the universe that we solve that turns out to be "not magic" further reduces the idea of a deity into one that has no impact on the universe. A deity that has no impact on the universe isn't much of a deity as we humans define it, and can therefore be dismissed.
LuminoZero
Incorrect. Science defines much, but we still have never come close to answering the most basic question. Where did the universe come from? Conservation of Energy means it didn't gain or lose energy. 2nd Law of Thermo says energy moves in direction of increasing entropy, so the Universe started with a relative minimum in Entropy. How? Only logical answer is that the Universe is a 'closed' system and energy was added from outside the Universe by something not bound by our Universes laws.
Tomcat1982
You are misrepresenting the atheist position. Atheism and agnosticism are not exclusive from each other; you can be both. Most atheists are agnostic. You're thinking of gnostic atheists, aka hard atheists; they make the unfalsifiable claim that no gods exist. On the other hand, agnostic atheists reject all god claims and assume the null position on whether or not any god exists.
Tomcat1982
Theism/atheism is a genuine dichotomy; there's no middle ground or third option. If you're convinced a god exists, then you're a theist. If you're not convinced of any gods existing, then you're an atheist. If you're not sure you're convinced, then you're not convinced and you're an atheist. Gnosticism/agnosticism is an entirely separate dichotomy. If you claim to somehow know the properties of said god/gods or somehow know that no gods exist, then you're gnostic. If you don't, you're agnostic.
DickGenie
Agnostic theists? Here's a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism
AxelBeingCivil
That's... Not really true, though. You can never be 100% of anything in life, beyond your own existence. You can't be sure that the evidence of your senses is accurate, for example, because any proof would rely on your senses. Assessment of evidence is always a weighing of probabilities. If, in the assessment of evidence, you find you believe a god does or does not exist, that is sufficient to take that position. If you're uncertain, that's fine too. But assess the evidence.
LuminoZero
It depends how you define 'God'. Like anything else in science, if you wish to prove/disprove something you first have to define what it is you're testing for. If the claim is that 'God' is not bound by the Laws of Physics, how could one use Physics or any field of science to test for that? It's unprovable, one way or the other. The only question that suggests the existence of such an entity was the above "Conservation of Energy + Entropy" argument I made.
AxelBeingCivil
Well, you're kind of jumping the gun there, aren't you? The claim "God is not bound by the laws of physics" needs to be preceded by the test of the claim "God exists". The operation of the object in question is second to first establishing its existence. It doesn't matter if the thing in question is or is not bound by the laws of physics: The claim is that it in some way interacts with our universe. That means it produces measurable effects. Those should be detectable. Once you have shown (1)
AxelBeingCivil
that some kind of phenomenon exists, *then* you can begin to investigate its workings by starting from observations of that phenomenon. On the other hand, if you can't produce any evidence of it that doesn't have better alternative explanations, well... I mean, you might still be right, but a thing indistinguishable from coincidence might as well not be acting at all. (2)
SomeDetroitGuy
This is fucking idiotic. Eggs aren't fertilized. They aren't going to become a chicken. There's a LOT of shit you can toss on the fucking idiots who are "pro-life" but this argument is as stupid as they are.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
How was this upvoted? Back then they most likely were fertilized.
Illinifan88
Yep. Friendly reminder that there are idiots on both sides. It's just the idiots on our side mean well, while the idiots on the other side mean harm to everyone, including themselves, to benefit their overlords.
newsguycraigevans
Because the "pro life" argument is just as stupid.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
Yes and No. Back when the RCC came up with this, eggs were usually fertilized because every farmer kept a rooster to protect the hens against small to medium-sized predators. Many free-range (actual free-range) chicken farmers still do this, so if you buy real free-range eggs there is a good chance they're fertilized too. Doesn't make any difference quality-wise. As long as a fertilized egg isn't incubated at the right, consistent temperature, it doesn't develop past the blastoderm stage.
plainoldfool
Yes and No. Just having a rooster around does not mean a hen will lay fertilized eggs. She will still drop a lot of duds. And farmers (back then and now) can determine if an egg has an embryo simply by holding it up to a light source such as a candle.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
There is a lot that needs to happen between "fertilized egg" and "embyro". Like I said, if the egg isn't consistently incubated at the right temperature and humidity it won't develop past the blastoderm stage. You'd have to crack it open and take a close look at the germinal spot to tell the difference. It's a little larger in a fertilized egg. But once again, it doesn't make any quality-related difference and free-range egg consumers needn't worry about accidental balut.
KaptainObveeus
So cam we make decent omelettes from harvesting human blastocysts ?
Illinifan88
Ah yes, under these extremely specific conditions, which don't apply to the vast majority of consumers, in which you are even drastically oversimplifying your justification to defend it, the clearly flawed argument maybe isn't so flawed...
Nah. The argument is dumb. Don't drop to republican standards of logic. We don't need to.
istry555
In the Middle Ages, eggs were actually forbidden during Lent and other fast days. So, don't know what you mean "back when they came up with this". Eggs aren't fertilized and back when your supposed argument "but they were" takes place, eggs weren't allowed, so? Plus, people have known how to harvest unfertilized egg production since Ancient Sumer. Even keeping a rooster around, the vast majority of eggs wouldn't have been fertilized.
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
You seem to confuse the RCC with the orthodox church. The RCC doesn't forbid any food during lent, which lasts 40 days. Only on Fridays (not just during lent) & on Ash Wednesday, meat was traditionally off limits. Never eggs, dairy, or seafood incl. fish. And yes, eggs are occasionally fertilized if you're not a monster who supports animal cruelty. We have a bunch of true free-range farms around here in Northern Germany who deliver to your doorstep (and keep roosters). Almost everyone buys there
FiftyShadesOfMascarpone
https://www.youtube.com">zGH8">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzM5hJbzGH8 and https://www.auricher-eier.de/ in case you want to know where my entire neighborhood buys their eggs.