qwertdeep
102227
1244
35
On March 16th 1968 between 347 and 504 civilians were killed by US soldiers with victims including men, women, children and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, as were children as young as 12.
26 soldiers were charged for this massacre, only the Platoon Leader Lieutenant William Calley Jr. was charged. He was initially sentenced to life but this was reduced to a 3.5 year sentence under house arrest by President Nixon.
PFC Vernado Simpson talks about killing civilians in Vietnam. At least he acknowledged his actions and seems to regret them, he took his life in 1997.
In 1977, Simpson's 10-year-old son was accidentally killed by a random shot fired by some neighborhood teenagers. Simpson recalled the day later by stating, "He died in my arms. And when I looked at him, his face was like the same face of the child that I had killed. And I said: This is the punishment for killing the people that I killed."
Mỹ Lai was just one of many atrocities committed. The pentagon created a secret file archive of the atrocities committed against South Vietnamese civilians by US troops:
LA times reported this on the subject:
“Among the substantiated cases in the archive:
Seven massacres from 1967 through 1971 in which at least 137 civilians died.
Seventy-eight other attacks on noncombatants in which at least 57 were killed, 56 wounded and 15 sexually assaulted.
One hundred forty-one instances in which U.S. soldiers tortured civilian detainees or prisoners of war with fists, sticks, bats, water or electric shock.
Investigators determined that evidence against 203 soldiers accused of harming Vietnamese civilians or prisoners was strong enough to warrant formal charges. These “founded” cases were referred to the soldiers’ superiors for action.
Ultimately, 57 of them were court-martialed and just 23 convicted, the records show.
Fourteen received prison sentences ranging from six months to 20 years, but most won significant reductions on appeal. The stiffest sentence went to a military intelligence interrogator convicted of committing indecent acts on a 13-year-old girl in an interrogation hut in 1967.
He served seven months of a 20-year term, the records show”
“Abuses were not confined to a few rogue units, a Times review of the files found. They were uncovered in every Army division that operated in Vietnam.”
Note that only 23/203 soldiers with evidence against them got convicted!
Perhaps it’s because of my age but I have only just become aware of this particular atrocity. Let’s spread awareness lest we forget the horrors of war and the innocent lives lost.
Some of his interviews are here:
https://youtu.be/IEW5TD9hMBs
The documentary from which this comes from is here:
https://youtu.be/1NwnnLnvQYA
Wiki page for the Mỹ Lai massacre:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mỹ_Lai_massacre
LA Times source:
https://www.latimes.com/news/la-na-vietnam6aug06-story.html
coffeeandprozac
I long for the Era in which war is considered archaic and unnecessary.
stlouiscardinalsfan7
Fuck Nixon for giving house arrest for these awful war crimes.
GeorgeCostabaplaps
War never changes.
SABURNA
I know someone who unfortunately did something like this with his platoon. They were never caught.
Datamaskarl
These numbers are definitely lower than the reality
DavidBleecher
Just remember, when you call for war on a people, this is part of war. It happens every time, no exceptions.
believeitornotimnothome
American Experience/PBS made a documentary about this in 2010. I wasn't aware of My Lai before I watched this. Just horrific.
Zainadin
RUSSIA IS DOING THIS TODAY, we've known about the USA in Vietnam since it happened, unfortunately there is nothing we can do now, except 1/
Zainadin
go after Russia today. HELL in the USA we couldn't even punish a Navy Seal with Trump as the president. VOTE and don't forget.
Autisticawkwardpenguin
It’s not propaganda to look at the history of USA’s involvement in foreign wars and decide we cannot be ethical enough to try to be a hero.
Bigemedic
I remember some US troops pitched two Iraqi kids off a dam. One died. The other lived to report it. The US troops had been Iraq a month.
MrTheFavs
Vietnam was such a mistake…
papertiger09
So when they called Vietnam vets "baby killers", it was because it was true
whitewater0034
FlintNorth44
Remember when trump gave a bunch of soldiers pardons even though they killed civilians?
PUNKem733
YAY our heroes!!! Yellow ribbons for all!! This kind of shit happens in nearly any war america has been involved in.
Seizurebleak
"How could you shoot women and children?" "Easy, you just don't lead them so much. Ain't war hell?"
BitchButcher
"Hahahaha! Hahahaha!"
rezpup
So let's talk about the political, religious, corporate responsibilities and blame not just the people on the ground.
MostLikelyNotWearingPants
I knew this ended in suicide. You can’t live with that kinda shit. Look at that hand shaking and his legs. His body is wracked. Fcked up war
ColmMeaney
When you dehumanise a race of people by calling them "Gooks", then this is the outcome
witalaska4
This is why Vietnam veterans were treated with ill will when they returned home, being verbally blasted as “Baby Killers” by War protesters
Zainadin
Also that is a myth made up in Hollywood that veterans were verbally abused when they returned. Do some research on Rambo and the book.
wormfood
War gives armed men ultimate authority on life and death with miniscule oversight compared to civil life. There is no "clean" war.
nanyatenyaa
*Motions to the Geneva conventions.* A whole hell of a lot of people sat down to specifically disagree on that.
qwertdeep
How many wars have there been since the Geneva conventions were written when not a single war crime was committed? Can you name any?
wormfood
And how often are those actually enforced compared to how often they're broken? They're a balm for conscience. War is uncontrollable. We 1/2
wormfood
shouldn't pretend we can go to war without atrocity, it makes us more inclined to go to war and it's a false pretense. 2/2
Grapeape2000
Look up "Mildred Pierce Reporting" from William S. Burroughs. an excerpt: 1/2
Grapeape2000
I found Colonel Bradshaw bivouacking at the Ritz. I told him bluntly what was going on. 1.5/2
Grapeape2000
His eyes glinted shamelessly as he said, “Well, you have to take a broad general view of things.” 2/2
qwertdeep
.
JustAlex94
And that is why America lost the Vietnam War. They created more enemies and have no allies. Pointless wars and needless death.
Deleighrious
My comp 2 professor in uni had us do a paper over My Lai. We watched a documentary that included this interview. It really sticks with you.
MrTheFavs
Thank you for sharing this. I had not heard of this. I have now read the whole Wikipedia article and several videos about it.
Mediathug
My heart breaks at this stuff. Is this humanity for eternity? We can make bigger weapons but Lee never do anything for bigger peace.
amb1021
It used to be common to torture kids to death and stick people on sharp poles through the anus while they were alive, so we have improved.
amb1021
A few centuries ago women would be sent to Australia for stealing bread and their toddlers would be left to die alone on London streets.
Mediathug
*we. I don’t know who the fuck Lee is.
qwertdeep
I was curious who Lee was and why his contribution to peace was so important ?
IAmTheEarlyEvening
"The Marine Corps doesn't want robots. The Marine Corps wants killers"
squintish
What/ who are you quoting?
IAmTheEarlyEvening
Full Metal Jacket
Auxilium
3.5 years house arrest for a war crime?
PicassoCT
More then W
electricsillygoose
7 months on a 20 year sentence caught my eye....
Rasdwa
Thanks, Nixon. Under Trump he would have got a MoH..
TrumpIsAFelon
Maybe it was a not very nice house with awful wallpaper and shag carpet. House arrest in the 70s was no joke /s
chefsoda
Lt Calley was viewed as a hero for leading the massacre. Flew all over the US to huge crowds
MightyBlackGuy
Pffft, I once got a week for jaywalking
TheAnswerWasAlwaysMoreLube
Trump pardon a bunch of convicted war criminals as well. Disgusting. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4026014001
TrumpIsAFelon
Please refrain from posting amp versions of websites
TheAnswerWasAlwaysMoreLube
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/12/23/trump-pardons-american-war-criminals-undermines-rule-law-column/4026014001/
NotSomoneElse68
But, it was a war crime for side.
DarkRedCape
To start handing out lengthy jail terms would admit that this was actually a thing. The US worked hard to cover all this up and deny it.
Problemwoodchuck
Nixon doing Nixon things.
Auxilium
I'm surprised the President had authority to do anything with war criminal over Congress, it's international law and relations, not domestic
Problemwoodchuck
Technically it was a Federal case (I think) and since Calley's trial kind of turned into a lightning rod for anti and pro war sentiment--
Problemwoodchuck
--Nixon dunked to score cheap points with his pro war base. Calley was technically charged with murder and not an international war crime.
[deleted]
[deleted]
qwertdeep
citizen
qwertdeep
Also check this out: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_the_Geneva_Conventions and its worth noting that the US isn’t party/
Shineupordown
Hey US made a law that they will invade Hague "to liberate any American or citizen of a U.S.-allied country being held by the court"
Auxilium
Wait, even allied? So the US will invade Hague if a UAE war criminal is held there?
Shineupordown
always protecting their war criminals https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law
qwertdeep
Holy fuck, I didn’t know about this. That’s mental but I shouldn’t be surprised since they aren’t party to the Rome Statute
qwertdeep
Yep, it’s very fucked and he was the only one charged for the actions of that specific massacre where around 350-500 died in one day
blaghart
No coincidence either he's not white.
qwertdeep
I can confirm that the platoon leader was white. Here’s his wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley
Solkanarmy
platoon leader was the one that was charged, this is a different guy
Lurkinjustlookinohlookarmrolls
I have never been one to "praise our troops" or say "thank you for your service". FUCK ALL THAT SHIT. My own dad served in the Korean War/
PUNKem733
I have NEVER, EVER thanked any serviceman. Most do it for GI pay not fighting for freedom.
Lurkinjustlookinohlookarmrolls
And it fucked his head up. He was an asshole, a very cruel mean drunk. He was NOT a good person. So when I heard people telling him /
Lurkinjustlookinohlookarmrolls
Practically bowing at his feet on veterans day "thank you for your service!" - and him, basking in the adoration, but he KNEW he was a bad /
Lurkinjustlookinohlookarmrolls
Person. To blindly praise ALL veterans, is fucking stupid. Because there are some awful, awful people who happen to be veterans.
Datamaskarl
My grandpa would tell stories about kicking suspected queers off the Submarines. Korea / Gulf. Army / Navy respectively.
Lurkinjustlookinohlookarmrolls
Isn't the Military Industrial Complex just grand? We as a species, are horrible.
Cruise1687
The shit that happens to a humans brain under these stress situations..from the dawn of time to Ukraine, war turns people into monsters.
IKnowWhatImWorth
If we're to assume the chimpanzee incidents are equal to this, this could be a complete devolution caused by stress.
Becker37
And yet with others they rise to the occasion and help. Don't excuse such behavior because of the stress of war. Hard times give hard
Becker37
Decisions but that shit exceeds trauma. Takes someone predisposed to such horrible acts.
TheLoveGiant
But the ones who start the wars are already monsters and already in power.
MeshHatMafia
And it’s so fucking unfortunate. In 2022, why the fuck does any military exist anywhere?
Mairoa
One of the first places Columbus landed had "the thousand year peace" or something like that. He thought "oh, easy slaves!" That's why.
fantasma21
Evolution has not yet removed The ape brain. We are stuck in an intelligent barbaric era.
hellsgunslinger
Unfortunately with all our tech and supposed learning we really aren't much better than our cave man ancestors
mizzamir
Because others do elsewhere. War is a horrific & cruel crime and you cannot refine it. It must be prevented or, if all fails, ended quickly.
MeshHatMafia
I mean, I get it. But the amount of money thrown into it is astonishing. Everywhere. The people in charge need to stop having
MeshHatMafia
A pissing contest. I understand there’s a lot more underlayment, and it’s been a question for all of humanity, but something has to give
MeshHatMafia
At one point or another. This world is crazier than ever
SilentHowling
Because unfortunately, weakness invites aggression. On a personal level on a country level. Human's are animals like any other. 1/2
SilentHowling
Unfortunately, peace only exists when people have no reason to tear each other apart to survive or to gain something they want or need. 2/?
SilentHowling
The harder people have to struggle to survive, the more ruthless & evil we become. 3/3
LeoSalt
It grinds my gears when people associate war crimes exclusively with the axis in ww2 without acknowledging what other did, even the US.
LeoSalt
And then they even put the US on a pedestal of greatness, forgetting they in fact did commit war crimes, in all wars, but aren't remembered.
Pecoskie
It's only a war crime if you lose the war
purpleeyelashes
**especially the US
BarfMonger
Unlike the UK's bombing campaign against civilians?
purpleeyelashes
UK have horrific blood on their hands. Just minor note that it's silly to think US would be an exception as implied by 'even the US'.
purpleeyelashes
Basically humans can do horrific things - the flag is pretty irrelevant.
BarfMonger
The US has gotten much better at precision. Couple wars in the middle east finally convinced the military that killing civilians is bad.
chefsoda
The banality of evil is what makes it truly terrifying
HeHulk
I’m starting to figure out why Boomers are the way they are..
Sebastopol
Always upvote Hannah Arendt.
Bystandr
The meaning of 'banality' is something that lacks originality, freshness, or novelty. And it rings through to today on this subject, sadly.
Manae
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#Banality_of_evil In this case, it refers to the perpetrators, not the evil itself.
Manae
Still applies as you say, but at the same time it feels like there's a small difference between a massacre and shelling civilian structures
Bystandr
For this person; he saw it reflected in the death of his son after the war. It was one of the reasons he committed suicide in 1997.
flarflarf
footage of someone saying they cut peoples tongues out is not what people mean when they say "the banality of evil."
qwertdeep
It’s an ordinary person who slipped into evil with the people around him.
nanyatenyaa
Or.... is it what people think of?
FeloniousMonk13
I would propose that, perhaps, this man was not necessarily an evil man b4 Vietnam. he was thrust into a situation that made him turn evil.
chefsoda
That's the point. This isn't some crazed villain, but a man driven mad by the atrocities he was submerged in, in a fairly common situation
FeloniousMonk13
one could then propose that the truly evil are the ones who sent him there, armed him, and subjected him to a situation that drove him mad.
BarryTheCyborg
AlwaysHasBeen.jpg
Manae
That's kind of the point of the phrase? How easily an otherwise normal person can just slip in to accepting and *participating* in evilness
ijustmadethisaccounttoreplytoapostonce
absolutely - you should look up philip zimbardo's prison study. he says it isn't bad apples in the barrel, but a bad barrel.
ogbiggnutz
Banality: fatality involving bananas?
FeloniousMonk13
for scale, of course..