That ideology has a name - it's called "conservatism", which presents itself in the United States as white supremacy; thus, it follows that the other social tenets of white American conservatism flow from this most basic tenet.
The answer is older than white supremacy. It's older than cavepeople. It's our animal nature and tribalism. People want to belong to a group by similarities. And when you have enough similarities you become a tribe and that tribe defends against all "deemed other" as it can break up your tribe if people realise their similarity is bigger with a other group, they leave and threaten your survival.
The same reason why poor rural white folk hate poor rural black folk. They might have been working together for generations and they will still hate the other person. Humans have to be better than others. It is part of growing up. It is part of our society. it is part of us as instinctual animals. We have to be better than others because if we are not, we are weaker, dumber, worse off and lesser. Who can black folk punch down on. Who is "other" and "weaker", its people in the LGBTQ+ community.
At the point where 2 of your 3 examples aren't about race anymore, it's just "supremacy". Men holding themselves over women isn't "white supremacy" it's "male supremacy" and it happens without white people being ever present.
Look. You’re technically correct, but contextually wrong. His point is about the black experience in the United States which is largely founded in slavery. An entire set of pseudoscientific and theological justifications were built around putting things in a “natural order” that put straight white men at the top, straight white women underneath them, and then literally everyone else under that. So. HERE its white supremicist ideology.
There was a podcaster I used to listen to, that I don't listen to now because of his views on certain things so I won't give a name for any traffic, who gave a good explanation about how being victimized often leads to victimizing others. There is always someone that is suffering or victimized more than you, but that doesn't make your suffering or experience any less valid. The difference in victimization leads to a problem of "well, who deserves reduction in their suffering MOST at this time"->
...so you see a cycle develop where different groups feel more marginalized than others, or feel like their marginalization demands the most attention, and that means less attention for the people that aren't at the extreme end. Blacks are marginalized, black gays are marginalized more, black disabled gays even more, etc. It becomes a competition when it should be cooperation, and that only works to the advantage of those who victimize these groups.
VERY much this. White supremacy was invented as a means to **divide and conquer**, for free/cheap labor. Colonial America white masters with white indentured servants didn't want them allying with black slaves, because they tended to get the notion that being brutalized wasn't great, and maybe something could be Done About It. There was a calculated campaign to ensure white indentured were treated better, offered severance, etc., and that black people were seen on par with animals.
In Rome they didn't care what color you were, you could be a slave. India doesn't care that the slave class and the near slave class is as Indian as they are. Just like All Men Are Created Equal, didn't mean ALL PEOPLE. My Mother couldn't legally have her own checking account until 1973. This country has spent 250 years resisting real equality in every way shape and form. America is Exceptional-ly late to the party. Time to live up to the founding words.
The bushy beard guy is spoken word poet, educator, and TEDx speaker Tripp Fontane. Here, he is speaking at a traveling podcast show called "Tonight's Conversation", which travels from city to city and is unique at each location. So I don't know which particular show this came up at. I could be wrong, but I think the full show recordings are paywalled. Check out https://tonightsconversation.vhx.tv/ and https://acemetaphor.shop/ There are some shorts at www.youtube.com/@TonightsConversation
I'm not sure I agree but I'm a white woman so it might not be my place. I've been the subject of oppression by men and rich folks my whole life and one thing I've noticed is that many people aren't actually fighting for equality for all. They believe they are the only down trodden group that is in the wrong place. If you believe being gay is fundamentally wrong then you wouldn't want that group to be liberated. I don't want pedophiles and rapists to feel normalized and some people genuinely
think homosexuality is abhorrent. It freaks them the fuck out and they think it weakens the community and threatens they success of their kin. White/ black/ Asian whatever. I'm not going to fight for the proud boys to be accepted by society just because I'm fighting for women and trans to have equal rights.
Shit man, I'm a giant-ass cracker and I completely agree with this guy. White supremacy was never simple WHITE supremacy, there was this weird-ass pyramid scheme of supremacy. Put another way, this is pretty much that comic of the white queer man collaborating with the fascist to destroy trans folks, then saying "Surely this means we're allies, right?" Straight people of color should consider queer people of color to be on equal footing, NOT some kind of enemy. Am I reading all this right?
I've heard it described as there being two types of people, those who believe there is a natural "ordering" of classes of people, those would be your conservatives, white supremacists and what have you, and those who don't. And if you fall into the first group because you believe yourself superior to people different than you, it's a given there might be another group you feel superior to for different reason, but based on the very same belief that there _is_ an ordering in which you are higher.
Captions really need to do better with tone/punctuation because "aight man fuck this niggas" is a WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT than "Aight, man. This [pause] Niggas; Black People -"
Made worse by me reading the subs and thinking ok that's a dope question let's unmute, and while laying in bed by my fiancée, the first word that comes out of my phone is n*****s. I got a VERY strange look.
Dude is right. He's just right. I break my brain trying to explain it to my fellow low melanin fellows. They just can't see it. They grew up wrapped in it, protected by it, kissed and tucked in at night by it, defended by it, profiting from it, from K to 12 to the offices to the boardrooms to the capitols. It's like land critters and air, or fish and water. They believe the bootstrap shit because they did try hard and work, but they're unaware of the jetpack strapped to their back.
Honestly yeah. I'm white, and even though I'm poor as hell (couldn't afford food/utilities/tp from time to time), I can still drive by cops and not worry. I can go to a store and not have employees follow me around. Or people be mean or violent just at the sight of my skin. We found out recently that my 3xGGparents were slaves. Mom joked about how "we were black now" and it's like, no. We still benefit. We were raised in whitewash. It's not just DNA, it's what the system affords us over others.
It's true. White colonialism is what made all of the more colorful cultures try to conform to their set of beliefs. Like trans women (or local versions of them) for example have existed and were revered members of society in the Pacific Islands before colonialism forced them to give up their "sinful" ways. Suddenly there's stigma, brought about by outsiders and their religion. As a trans woman myself, it very much annoys me that somebody else's religion is dictating how I live my own life.
I remember a nun/missionary on a 60s TV show discussing her time with the natives. "The first thing I did was tell them they are naked." (She came in and forced shame onto a culture without it)
The hell nonsense are you spouting? Atheists aren't bigots and bigots usually don't believe in science. Bigotry is an ignorant ideology, just like religion. Most atheists are about equal rights.
Like how do you not know that Richard Dawkins is famously a bigot? The atheist movement has a *huge* racism and sexism problem not to mention the anti-trans stuff, are you actually gonna claim to be unaware? How ignorant to do expect me to think you?
You are describing people in general, not atheists. Being atheist has nothing to do with being a bigot (wheres religion does), doesnt mean an atheist _cant_ be a bigot, ofcourse, but that conflating two entirely different thing. Might as well say all women are bigots, just because i met a hateful karen the other day
Which is why white folks asking "what about me, I'm poor" also serves the purpose of white supremacy because they are the white folk tossed on the fire for not being enough. They are the sacrifice to keep the fight confusing so no one focuses on the wealthy.
If almost hald a century on this planet has taught me anything, it is that anyone [any one] is trying to convince you that all members of any race, group, class, religion, orientation or lifestyle... with incredibly narrow, possibly fictitional exceptions... that person is either trying to indoctrinate you with propaganda, or a fool.
I’m atheist, but the teachings of Jesus are very class struggle oriented. Dude was flipping the tables of the money changers and washing the feet of followers. Now the Old Testament teaches hierarchical structures which is antithetical to the New Testament. Conservatives fucking love hierarchical structures which is why they let the people at the top of the hierarchy piss all over the things Jesus was teaching.
I think the first great 'divide' created by the ruling class across the world throughout history is to turn the men against the women and to make the men accept their rule in exchange for the subjugation and ownership of women by those men. Taliban interviews have recorded this, they're so brutal on women's rights in exchange for the submission of the men to taliban rule. Historically, across the world, most men very happily take that deal. All conservatives, at their core. Racism came next.
The first great divide was ownership. Before agriculture, humanity was nomadic. We would cross paths with others and co-mingle, sharing knowledge and companionship before moving on. Yet, when people began to lay claim to the land, they began to fear others coming and taking from them the new security they had built. From there, the concept of what is or isn't "property" spread. Patriarchal society arose from the concept that men owned the women.
Before concepts of ownership, women anden had very similar roles within nomadic groups and were just as competent as their male counterparts. Only after the advent of agriculture and "civilization" did arbitrary gender roles start solidifying.
those "nations without white people" are generally themselves past victims of colonial exploitation, usually at the hands of white empires, and these forms of bigotry were, if not wholly imposed, at least greatly amplified by the colonizers. there's a lot of continuity between the belgian atrocities in the congo and the hutu atrocities in rwanda (also previously belgian-ruled).
I get the point tho, _all_ people are capable of horrid things, not just white people, its just that white people have written a WHOLE lot of history of application of that ideology
I'm a straight (enough) white cis guy, but I grew up on the periphery of Oakland with a lot of older black women. And the homophobia within that community struck me hard growing up, not as much as the pervasive homophobia of the 90s. I think this it headed in the right direction. But it's not only white supremacy, it's the entire domination culture. Whether that's race or gender. But he's got the ticket here, it's all division and dominance (and not the fun consensual kind).
We have similar backgrounds, and the older I get the more obvious it becomes that, below a certain level of wealth, we’re mostly just subject to the whims of the ultra wealthy. I hate it.
ImGoingToGoFallAsleepOnABench
That ideology has a name - it's called "conservatism", which presents itself in the United States as white supremacy; thus, it follows that the other social tenets of white American conservatism flow from this most basic tenet.
NeverTrustThisNewInternetThingy
The answer is older than white supremacy. It's older than cavepeople. It's our animal nature and tribalism. People want to belong to a group by similarities. And when you have enough similarities you become a tribe and that tribe defends against all "deemed other" as it can break up your tribe if people realise their similarity is bigger with a other group, they leave and threaten your survival.
mytruepersonality
The same reason why poor rural white folk hate poor rural black folk. They might have been working together for generations and they will still hate the other person. Humans have to be better than others. It is part of growing up. It is part of our society. it is part of us as instinctual animals. We have to be better than others because if we are not, we are weaker, dumber, worse off and lesser. Who can black folk punch down on. Who is "other" and "weaker", its people in the LGBTQ+ community.
relsky
It got so damn quiet when he started his answer. Good on the audience for respecting the question and the answer.
Fuck anyone who carries any kind of supremacy ideology.
OneUniverse
We all do. That is the whole point. We all are infected with it.
prosper020
The only thing that we have to hate is hate itself!
khaoselement
Fucking incredible question followed by an equally incredible answer.
MithridateEupator
At the point where 2 of your 3 examples aren't about race anymore, it's just "supremacy". Men holding themselves over women isn't "white supremacy" it's "male supremacy" and it happens without white people being ever present.
imeatingpizzaandfuckit
Look. You’re technically correct, but contextually wrong. His point is about the black experience in the United States which is largely founded in slavery. An entire set of pseudoscientific and theological justifications were built around putting things in a “natural order” that put straight white men at the top, straight white women underneath them, and then literally everyone else under that. So. HERE its white supremicist ideology.
greenytali
xizar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wPākehā">https://en.wikipedia.org">iki/Pāk">Pākehā">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pākehā https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangata_tiriti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangata_whenua
kurvarVillain
Terry Pratchett had an interesting take on it:
xizar
Seize the Juggalo?
Beefkins
There was a podcaster I used to listen to, that I don't listen to now because of his views on certain things so I won't give a name for any traffic, who gave a good explanation about how being victimized often leads to victimizing others. There is always someone that is suffering or victimized more than you, but that doesn't make your suffering or experience any less valid. The difference in victimization leads to a problem of "well, who deserves reduction in their suffering MOST at this time"->
Beefkins
...so you see a cycle develop where different groups feel more marginalized than others, or feel like their marginalization demands the most attention, and that means less attention for the people that aren't at the extreme end. Blacks are marginalized, black gays are marginalized more, black disabled gays even more, etc. It becomes a competition when it should be cooperation, and that only works to the advantage of those who victimize these groups.
87cubed
VERY much this. White supremacy was invented as a means to **divide and conquer**, for free/cheap labor. Colonial America white masters with white indentured servants didn't want them allying with black slaves, because they tended to get the notion that being brutalized wasn't great, and maybe something could be Done About It. There was a calculated campaign to ensure white indentured were treated better, offered severance, etc., and that black people were seen on par with animals.
OneUniverse
In Rome they didn't care what color you were, you could be a slave. India doesn't care that the slave class and the near slave class is as Indian as they are. Just like All Men Are Created Equal, didn't mean ALL PEOPLE. My Mother couldn't legally have her own checking account until 1973. This country has spent 250 years resisting real equality in every way shape and form. America is Exceptional-ly late to the party. Time to live up to the founding words.
TheobromineAddict
The bushy beard guy is spoken word poet, educator, and TEDx speaker Tripp Fontane. Here, he is speaking at a traveling podcast show called "Tonight's Conversation", which travels from city to city and is unique at each location. So I don't know which particular show this came up at. I could be wrong, but I think the full show recordings are paywalled. Check out https://tonightsconversation.vhx.tv/ and https://acemetaphor.shop/ There are some shorts at www.youtube.com/@TonightsConversation
mrsdowneyjr
I'm not sure I agree but I'm a white woman so it might not be my place. I've been the subject of oppression by men and rich folks my whole life and one thing I've noticed is that many people aren't actually fighting for equality for all. They believe they are the only down trodden group that is in the wrong place. If you believe being gay is fundamentally wrong then you wouldn't want that group to be liberated. I don't want pedophiles and rapists to feel normalized and some people genuinely
mrsdowneyjr
think homosexuality is abhorrent. It freaks them the fuck out and they think it weakens the community and threatens they success of their kin. White/ black/ Asian whatever. I'm not going to fight for the proud boys to be accepted by society just because I'm fighting for women and trans to have equal rights.
CrankyCook
Tribalism is the yoke of cast distinction.
MelfsAcidArrow
This is at the intersection of white supremacy and Christianity
SexGolem
Christianity is just religious colonialism.
devasto
Damn. Good answer, especially for one off the cuff like that
celestedrake
Bigotry is the same no matter who it is directed at. And any evil in your heart needs to be stomped out.
OneUniverse
I want to hear all the answers to that question. But wow that nailed it.
Wasnbo
Shit man, I'm a giant-ass cracker and I completely agree with this guy. White supremacy was never simple WHITE supremacy, there was this weird-ass pyramid scheme of supremacy. Put another way, this is pretty much that comic of the white queer man collaborating with the fascist to destroy trans folks, then saying "Surely this means we're allies, right?" Straight people of color should consider queer people of color to be on equal footing, NOT some kind of enemy. Am I reading all this right?
kInADress
I've heard it described as there being two types of people, those who believe there is a natural "ordering" of classes of people, those would be your conservatives, white supremacists and what have you, and those who don't. And if you fall into the first group because you believe yourself superior to people different than you, it's a given there might be another group you feel superior to for different reason, but based on the very same belief that there _is_ an ordering in which you are higher.
thekadeshi
Captions really need to do better with tone/punctuation because "aight man fuck this niggas" is a WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT than "Aight, man. This [pause] Niggas; Black People -"
CheeseIsNaturesFudge
Made worse by me reading the subs and thinking ok that's a dope question let's unmute, and while laying in bed by my fiancée, the first word that comes out of my phone is n*****s. I got a VERY strange look.
thekadeshi
Throwback to the good old days https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D2vuMLg6BHE&pp=0gcJCWoCo7VqN5tD
slopwizard
I would've gone with "billionaires are brainwashing everyone into hatred" but this gentleman was far more eloquent
Cayowin
Before the first billionaire there was racism. Racism is older than capitalism.
CALAMOSCOPYJANE
WOOOOOOORD wow so well said!! Thanks for posting.
kInADress
Right on!
Zalagzny
They were both very well spoken. Hats off to both.
howunfortunate9
Dude is right. He's just right. I break my brain trying to explain it to my fellow low melanin fellows. They just can't see it. They grew up wrapped in it, protected by it, kissed and tucked in at night by it, defended by it, profiting from it, from K to 12 to the offices to the boardrooms to the capitols. It's like land critters and air, or fish and water. They believe the bootstrap shit because they did try hard and work, but they're unaware of the jetpack strapped to their back.
arumunus
Honestly yeah. I'm white, and even though I'm poor as hell (couldn't afford food/utilities/tp from time to time), I can still drive by cops and not worry. I can go to a store and not have employees follow me around. Or people be mean or violent just at the sight of my skin.
We found out recently that my 3xGGparents were slaves. Mom joked about how "we were black now" and it's like, no. We still benefit. We were raised in whitewash. It's not just DNA, it's what the system affords us over others.
420supercoolusername69
The answer is religion. It’s always religion.
ElaineTheNPC
It's true. White colonialism is what made all of the more colorful cultures try to conform to their set of beliefs. Like trans women (or local versions of them) for example have existed and were revered members of society in the Pacific Islands before colonialism forced them to give up their "sinful" ways. Suddenly there's stigma, brought about by outsiders and their religion. As a trans woman myself, it very much annoys me that somebody else's religion is dictating how I live my own life.
SarcasticComment
I remember a nun/missionary on a 60s TV show discussing her time with the natives. "The first thing I did was tell them they are naked." (She came in and forced shame onto a culture without it)
ninjarabbit
hey, that’s not sarcastic at all. updoot anyways
Username62611
Yep, even when it's atheists using "science" as justification for their bigotry, it's still religion.
presentingmedia
The hell nonsense are you spouting? Atheists aren't bigots and bigots usually don't believe in science. Bigotry is an ignorant ideology, just like religion. Most atheists are about equal rights.
Username62611
If you believe that atheists aren't bigots, then you also have an ignorant ideology, just like religion.
Username62611
Like how do you not know that Richard Dawkins is famously a bigot? The atheist movement has a *huge* racism and sexism problem not to mention the anti-trans stuff, are you actually gonna claim to be unaware? How ignorant to do expect me to think you?
Z0op
You are describing people in general, not atheists. Being atheist has nothing to do with being a bigot (wheres religion does), doesnt mean an atheist _cant_ be a bigot, ofcourse, but that conflating two entirely different thing. Might as well say all women are bigots, just because i met a hateful karen the other day
Username62611
Like, you think it's the Christians coming up with shit like "female hypergamy"? It's not.
JoeMangoJello
Hoo boy do we need a source link on this one! OP is letting us down by not letting us watch the rest.
countervail247365
Sorry peeps. Was a click from another person so no idea about the full video.
TheobromineAddict
This moment appeared during a live audience Q&A session filmed in June 2023 during the Tonight's Conversation tour.
JoeMangoJello
Thank you. I guess my google-fu sucks though, because even with that info I still can't find a video.
xizar
I went through their youtube channel back to 2022 and could not find it. (Not saying it isn't there, just that I didn't find it.)
eathotdog
Google search is hot bongwater in 2026, Google fu only does so much
Marsupialmessiah
I cant find it either but google and all chromium based search engines pull from the same dataset thats biased towards NOT finding this content
JoeMangoJello
Like fella said in another comment, I think it's all behind paywalls. Bummer.
iusedtodream
White supremacy model is Divide & Conquer. Always. There must always be exploited outgroups and a very small in-group. The end.
comeonjointhejoyride
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1amNnZWJwaHQxamh4eTNidGI2M3U4aXE1ZDVubmg2ZWt4aGg2NHBwciZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/DFNd1yVyRjmF2/200w.webp
SarcasticComment
Which is why white folks asking "what about me, I'm poor" also serves the purpose of white supremacy because they are the white folk tossed on the fire for not being enough. They are the sacrifice to keep the fight confusing so no one focuses on the wealthy.
encrypteddecryption
If almost hald a century on this planet has taught me anything, it is that anyone [any one] is trying to convince you that all members of any race, group, class, religion, orientation or lifestyle... with incredibly narrow, possibly fictitional exceptions... that person is either trying to indoctrinate you with propaganda, or a fool.
JoeMangoJello
Sounds very christian, in my experience.
killergrooves85
I’m atheist, but the teachings of Jesus are very class struggle oriented. Dude was flipping the tables of the money changers and washing the feet of followers. Now the Old Testament teaches hierarchical structures which is antithetical to the New Testament. Conservatives fucking love hierarchical structures which is why they let the people at the top of the hierarchy piss all over the things Jesus was teaching.
JoeMangoJello
Yeah. I said it sounded christian. That's got nothing to do with jebus.
killergrooves85
Indeed.
clrich912
I think the first great 'divide' created by the ruling class across the world throughout history is to turn the men against the women and to make the men accept their rule in exchange for the subjugation and ownership of women by those men. Taliban interviews have recorded this, they're so brutal on women's rights in exchange for the submission of the men to taliban rule. Historically, across the world, most men very happily take that deal. All conservatives, at their core. Racism came next.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
The first great divide was ownership. Before agriculture, humanity was nomadic. We would cross paths with others and co-mingle, sharing knowledge and companionship before moving on. Yet, when people began to lay claim to the land, they began to fear others coming and taking from them the new security they had built. From there, the concept of what is or isn't "property" spread. Patriarchal society arose from the concept that men owned the women.
TheDoctorCrankenstein
Before concepts of ownership, women anden had very similar roles within nomadic groups and were just as competent as their male counterparts. Only after the advent of agriculture and "civilization" did arbitrary gender roles start solidifying.
iusedtodream
I think you are correct.
ilhares
That same policy holds in nations even without white people. It's always about giving your foes a different target to focus on.
VinchVolt
those "nations without white people" are generally themselves past victims of colonial exploitation, usually at the hands of white empires, and these forms of bigotry were, if not wholly imposed, at least greatly amplified by the colonizers. there's a lot of continuity between the belgian atrocities in the congo and the hutu atrocities in rwanda (also previously belgian-ruled).
Z0op
I get the point tho, _all_ people are capable of horrid things, not just white people, its just that white people have written a WHOLE lot of history of application of that ideology
jackwagon311
Also another very integral part is Capitalism. Capital ism and Racism go hand in hand. In the US anyways.
Camelspotting
How so?
ZzPluralZa
Damn, that was a great response to an equally great question. Thanks for posting!
HufflePuffPuff
Sorry, I just couldn’t stop laughing using this as a reply. I agree with you but, again, sorry.
v
ZzPluralZa
It’s okay. I don’t actually get it, but I’m glad you laughed.
HufflePuffPuff
Thanks, pretty sure it’s an inside joke to me, and me alone, that I can’t explain.
ZzPluralZa
Those are precious. Guarding them seems wise.
nclu
I'm a straight (enough) white cis guy, but I grew up on the periphery of Oakland with a lot of older black women. And the homophobia within that community struck me hard growing up, not as much as the pervasive homophobia of the 90s. I think this it headed in the right direction. But it's not only white supremacy, it's the entire domination culture. Whether that's race or gender. But he's got the ticket here, it's all division and dominance (and not the fun consensual kind).
ZzPluralZa
We have similar backgrounds, and the older I get the more obvious it becomes that, below a certain level of wealth, we’re mostly just subject to the whims of the ultra wealthy. I hate it.
derpman4k
Straight enough?
https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1cWdhN2cweWplOGlldm11cGV6czhqb2JxMDZ6c3drOWcydzVoMmtpaCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/B8rOUw1NAJ70L1AXWA/200w.webp
nclu
Hetero-flexible
ZzPluralZa
lol. Not that similar.