Apr 14, 2021 6:01 AM
AwkwardGirl4691
112538
2255
27
maxwilder
When I cut carbs and caffeine, my sleep schedule naturally reset to normal hours.
schmau
BulkSausage
ClessAurion
Its useless. Now I'm in tokyo time and my clock is in UTC+1. Bullshit I call it.
GentlemanBart
@LilaaK
rivenmyr
I sleep 7am-3pm. If I fall asleep early at like midnight from lack of sleep the night before I wake up at 3 and can’t fall back asleep :(
The SECOND I became unemployed my body reverted back to this. When I was employed I woke up at 10am and was still just insanely exhausted
SoulfulYin
thats what im goin thru right now. its 7AM and im gettin ready for bed. hate it. i slept at like 1AM last night, still got up at 3PM. wat do
FreePalestineAndTheWorldFromIsrael
I always wonder if the day was longer, would we get more rest, or be exploited for longer work/school periods with less rest.
LychFinderGeneral
I think that's an easy one...
mbos14
Ugh worst part is when poeple judge you for not sleeping "normal" hours. Plus i have an extra reason work doesnt start till later in the day
and i cant relax if i have to watch the clock to see if i have to go to work. Alarm helps but still les relaxing.
tiderfish
Same
DemonDuJour
It's been scientifically proven that the amount of sleep needed by the average person is: five minutes more.
alvinthatsme
Thats why i set an alarm 2 hours before i actualy need to wake up, and then sleep 3 hours more after shuting it up
Munnin41
I feel sorry for anyone sharing your bed...
IllegalDuckling
Whenever I do that, I end up somehow sleeping at least 10 more hours
djhash
I thought it was 10.. that’s why they make snooze 9minutes.
My alarm clock has a nap button that gives you 7 minutes! Wtf is that even for?
MstrES
The devil! 6 minutes and 66 seconds
eppykaze
Research has shown up to a 10 hour difference in the peaks of the circadian rhythm for Morning Larks and Night Owls.
ourari
Society sets up Night Owls for failure, potentially ruining their confidence and their health for life.
Mithi
Where does the perpetually exhausted pigeon fit into the scheme?
transientmind
They don’t fit. What’s more, the pigeons are aware of this, which contributes to their condition.
ElroyJetsonEsq
I've been diagnosed as having Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome, apparently my internal clock is an illness (shrug). But the diagnosis gave me...
...leverage to get past employers to be more accommodating due to the requirements of the ADA, which is handy if you happen to be in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm_sleep_disorder
BornToDoStuff
... interesting. What accommodations did they make for you based on that?
They accepted that despite it being a 9 to 5 job, my working day was not going to be 9 to 5. They didn't stress about me not being in the...
HemlockMoonwolf
I did a little experiment on myself years ago with a sleep calculator. I only need 6 hours of sleep and have more energy at 4am
nonameidea2
Additionally they found out there are several types with different peak performance times. Could be from the concept of guarding..
Imaging if back in the days everyone fell asleep at night or only had good concentration at 8 am... doesnt make sense for security
AtsaMattaForMe
JavaCofe
jherazob
Here, audio on:
❤️ Danny Glover
zoeytg
I love working nights. Go right to sleep in the morning.
I miss being a uni student. Same routine, but none of the work.
RicardoVanDijke
person: doesn't do anything all day, looks at bright phone screen untill 3 AMAlso person: Why can't I sleep, I must be nocturnal
mikez87
For me it goes the other way. I can't sleep, therefore I try to spend some time resting and trying to finally get tired and fall asleep.
Raikupath
Been proven plenty of times that humans aren't at their peak in the early morning and that teens need more sleep than adults.
In the best case you are an extrovert and an early bird in this society. Mix in a little bit of psychopathic tendency and success is yours
abobeaver5772
Being an early bird isnt that big of a benefit so long as you can operate fine at work. Being a night owl helps with late night schmoozing
Which is extremely important at mid/high levels
You just called out every asshole CEO in existence
There are studies that predict 4-12% of CEOs have psychopathic traits... so not wrong
Syxcfaq
Well shit. When you think about it this is absolutely correct.
I'm an introverted night owl but I'm currently achieving my dream of working in the movie industry. It's different for every person.
Exceptions confirm the rule. Good for you!!
Don’t forget inherited wealth.
It is by far the single greatest determining factor of financial success.
Vareen
It's true, but it's not a characteristic of your personality, so it doesn't really belong in this list
AwesomeTeddybear
It's been researched plenty of times, and yet we refuse to do anything with the outcomes
kaoticgirl
Since my teen has been doing distance learning this year I don't get him up till 9 then just ask him not to stay up all night. I wish we 1/
Could finish school this way.
School times are designed around parents, not students. It is designed to get kids out before parents need to be at work
DrArsMoriendi
I am so annoyed the world is made for someone who wakes up at 6 am, and I have to be responsible for it
McMastered
gaenaralhonk
With lockdown I've been sleeping 4-12, feels amazing.
Attwarnerm
It's seen as commendable to get up at 5am to do get a head start on the day, but considered strange to stay up until 2am working.
BeerandCats
I get up a 5:15 - I don't like it, but it's when I have to get up
MajorTom0101
We made to decision while you were sleeping in.
HieronymousFlex
As a morning person, it's not our fault! We just like the quiet!
badatediting
I used to not be a morning person but now I wake 20 minutes before my alarm and I hate it
FluffyGreyJedi
I don't blame the morning people. I blame the people who try to make all people morning people
TheUrizen
I work nights. Its so peaceful from midnight to 6. Then you morning fuckers come shambling in bitching about your coffee ruining my quiet
mrfluffyfag
Its quiet at night as well. Coming from a night owl.
Akurei00
I'm somehow both. Love the morning the most but I harmfully stay awake as late as possible. 5 hours of sleep is enough.... Right?...
Josherman17
8 hours of sleep feels the same as 5-6 to me so.... yes?
ABonkeysManana
Companies could have a day shift CEO and a night shift CEO!
And the night shift supervisor is this guy called Brian who just watches movies
ThereIsntAnyCheeseInMyAss
It’s not; the world is made for squeezing the absolute most out of people for the absolute minimum of cost. The combined effects of
loss of free-time, the blatant pressure to ignore mental and physical health because of the cost, the pressure to do all you can despite
never actually getting the opportunities promised if you did..., the exhausting hierarchy of egotistical people above you, and no actual way
to improve your living situation and health... yeah it just makes your sleeping schedule shift without normality and structure.
Evening school and evening jobs have improved my life a thousandfold. Screw what normal society wants, make your own way.
Moose79
I work the GY shift and I’ve been happier
JHawkInc
There was a brief time period when I was job hunting that I was very productive getting 6-8 hours of sleep, starting at sunrise.
halosk8ingking
While my field of work does have evening positions, they pay far less
I guess I got lucky, where I worked, night shift paid more because apparently not many people wanted to do it.
2graves
That's weird. Normally the party is higher
Well yeah but my children's school starts very fucking early lol
Hope they're doin' fine with it. I failed school as a kid because of that night owl thing, hence evening school it is. Finally good grades
I had the same, I just skipped the first three hours and made up with homework. Got a lot of detention but made it easily on the exams :)
I have to have my kids at the bus stop by 6:30. It's ridiculous.
LyraTheLycan
My mate had to get up at 3:30-4am for (bus to) college and get home at 9-10pm
MechKelly
Normal for some. My work starts at 6am and I actually like it. Feel more productive throughout the day with an early start.
crazyspelling
If I start that early AND am productive, I am so fucking done by 11am.
agonarch
Yeah humans fit roughly into 3 time categories, at the moment we think it's so the early birds get up just after the night owls go to sleep.
It's probably a development so human tribes would always have someone either awake, or at least not deeply asleep all day around.
Lionskull
my solution, get a remote job and move east a few timezones. I wake up at noon for my 9 am job. i eat dinner at 9 pm.
Meeker001
I’ve always had a theory. That the time of day you’re born has something to do with your sleep cycle. Born in the AM ur a morning person,etc
What about ceasarian sections. I was born at 8 am with a ceasarian and i am a complete night person..
kingkongkeom
I dont know about wake up times, but I know I will not go camping with you
To be honest, I can't doubt that. The season you're born in makes a pretty big difference, too, so whynot the time
Yeah sorry but neither of those is a real thing.
There are scientific links between being born in colder or warmer months and people's issues/personality. This isn't some horoscope shit
ztygs
What scientific link?
NoNameFred
*raises hand* Born in the AM, not a morning person. So, that's at least 1 strike against your theory. Have you tried questionnaires/research
aninvisiblemaniac
idk if this is deserving of all the downvotes you're getting, I mean I definitely dont agree but you can believe this if youd like
68people
Dumb theory
Kinda harsh, since it's just his theory and you're not harmed by it are you?
MaraSovsFeet
Waaaahhhyhyy fuckin baby
Neiwin
Relax, it's just a fun thing the person likes to believe lol, so fucking aggressive.
Dumb comment.
freedom4scale
I was born at 4pm. What am I supposed to do?
oopsIdroppedmypocketpasta
Suffer. What is this, your first day on earth?
ARoseByAnotherUsernameWouldSmellAsSweet
What we all do, wait and eventually succumb to the all shattering wheels of time, just less well rested than others apparently
I was also born at 4 pm, and I’m a nite person.
korndogg83
RedWingedBlackbirds
I've had this same theory. High five internet stranger. (and forget all the haters, we're allowed to think outside the box)
understandable
With some people, the time to sleep is one of the only things they can control so they continually push the boundaries to give them a sense
Of control over their lives
There is a chinese term for it, that is translated: revenge bedtime procrastination.
Did not know that, sounds about right
NorthernHalibut
Til I’m a very vengeful person.
EatYourSoylentGreenAndShutUp
Mokelzwerg
What were the outcomes?
That the peak levels of the hormones that control ones sleep cycle can vary up to 10 hours from person to person.
freebodydiagram
My wife and I are 4-6 hours apart on sleep. I can fall asleep as soon as it's dark. She can't until 2-4 am.
DrProfessorProfessorson
Has it caused any lingering issues for you or did it work seamlessly from the beginning? How do you make it work?
Can you direct me towards the research paper?
datester35
Not sure why this is downvoted, it's a sauce request
Me neither but hey, the whims of the community
Steps1000
Try this: https://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2017.0967 . This paper posits that sentinel-like behavior contributes to asynchronous sleep cycles.
That's amazing! Thank you. Been plaguing me since my teens
ArcanistMMXIV
That most teenagers do much better at later hours of the morning. School should run from 11 to 5. 9 to 3 is madness
NomDeDieuDePutainDeBordelDeSaloperieDeMerde
France : 8h30 to 11h30 then 13h30 to 16h30 for primary school
BeerAndChips
I loved the 2 hour lunch break and Wednesdays off
Whowhywhatwhere
730-330.
ShyShyShyShyShy
My school was 8 to 3:30
9 to 3? My high school went from 7 to 2:30.
WhataboutBobWiley
was fun waiting on the bus at 530am as a 7yr old
9 to 3? I went to primary school from 7:30 to 12
We had 7:00 to 13:30
Omegatherion
Yeah. In germany school usually begins around this time as well.
Well, that's where I'm from lol
what school starts at 9? that wouldve been fucking nice instead of getting up at the ass crack of dawn
im25ok
All my schools K-12 started around 8:45-9. I’m Canadian
ignimbrite
Most australian schools (and american I'm guessing) start around 9am, give or take an hour. I'm a teacher and I still see so many tired kids
nah I grew up in america, used to have to get up at like 630 because school started at 730
textilelover
As an American, I get my grade 11 daughter to the busstop at 6:20.
In Germany it started either at 7:50 or 8
ChimeraOfFury
i had elementary school 8:30-3:30 and middle and high school 7:30-2:30. you know, the opposite of what they should do.
In Denmark it's 08:10 to 14:00 or 15:00.
jackpkmn
9-3? what heavenly lands did you grow up in? try 6:30-3.
I’m Canadian and mine as 9-3:45
maxwilder
When I cut carbs and caffeine, my sleep schedule naturally reset to normal hours.
schmau
BulkSausage
ClessAurion
Its useless. Now I'm in tokyo time and my clock is in UTC+1. Bullshit I call it.
GentlemanBart
@LilaaK
rivenmyr
I sleep 7am-3pm. If I fall asleep early at like midnight from lack of sleep the night before I wake up at 3 and can’t fall back asleep :(
rivenmyr
The SECOND I became unemployed my body reverted back to this. When I was employed I woke up at 10am and was still just insanely exhausted
SoulfulYin
thats what im goin thru right now. its 7AM and im gettin ready for bed. hate it. i slept at like 1AM last night, still got up at 3PM. wat do
FreePalestineAndTheWorldFromIsrael
I always wonder if the day was longer, would we get more rest, or be exploited for longer work/school periods with less rest.
LychFinderGeneral
I think that's an easy one...
mbos14
Ugh worst part is when poeple judge you for not sleeping "normal" hours. Plus i have an extra reason work doesnt start till later in the day
mbos14
and i cant relax if i have to watch the clock to see if i have to go to work. Alarm helps but still les relaxing.
tiderfish
Same
DemonDuJour
It's been scientifically proven that the amount of sleep needed by the average person is: five minutes more.
alvinthatsme
Thats why i set an alarm 2 hours before i actualy need to wake up, and then sleep 3 hours more after shuting it up
Munnin41
I feel sorry for anyone sharing your bed...
IllegalDuckling
Whenever I do that, I end up somehow sleeping at least 10 more hours
djhash
I thought it was 10.. that’s why they make snooze 9minutes.
tiderfish
My alarm clock has a nap button that gives you 7 minutes! Wtf is that even for?
MstrES
The devil! 6 minutes and 66 seconds
eppykaze
Research has shown up to a 10 hour difference in the peaks of the circadian rhythm for Morning Larks and Night Owls.
ourari
Society sets up Night Owls for failure, potentially ruining their confidence and their health for life.
Mithi
Where does the perpetually exhausted pigeon fit into the scheme?
transientmind
They don’t fit. What’s more, the pigeons are aware of this, which contributes to their condition.
ElroyJetsonEsq
I've been diagnosed as having Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome, apparently my internal clock is an illness (shrug). But the diagnosis gave me...
ElroyJetsonEsq
...leverage to get past employers to be more accommodating due to the requirements of the ADA, which is handy if you happen to be in the US.
ElroyJetsonEsq
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm_sleep_disorder
BornToDoStuff
... interesting. What accommodations did they make for you based on that?
ElroyJetsonEsq
They accepted that despite it being a 9 to 5 job, my working day was not going to be 9 to 5. They didn't stress about me not being in the...
HemlockMoonwolf
I did a little experiment on myself years ago with a sleep calculator. I only need 6 hours of sleep and have more energy at 4am
nonameidea2
Additionally they found out there are several types with different peak performance times. Could be from the concept of guarding..
nonameidea2
Imaging if back in the days everyone fell asleep at night or only had good concentration at 8 am... doesnt make sense for security
AtsaMattaForMe
JavaCofe
jherazob
Here, audio on:
JavaCofe
❤️ Danny Glover
zoeytg
I love working nights. Go right to sleep in the morning.
transientmind
I miss being a uni student. Same routine, but none of the work.
RicardoVanDijke
person: doesn't do anything all day, looks at bright phone screen untill 3 AM
Also person: Why can't I sleep, I must be nocturnal
mikez87
For me it goes the other way. I can't sleep, therefore I try to spend some time resting and trying to finally get tired and fall asleep.
Raikupath
Been proven plenty of times that humans aren't at their peak in the early morning and that teens need more sleep than adults.
nonameidea2
In the best case you are an extrovert and an early bird in this society. Mix in a little bit of psychopathic tendency and success is yours
abobeaver5772
Being an early bird isnt that big of a benefit so long as you can operate fine at work. Being a night owl helps with late night schmoozing
abobeaver5772
Which is extremely important at mid/high levels
IllegalDuckling
You just called out every asshole CEO in existence
nonameidea2
There are studies that predict 4-12% of CEOs have psychopathic traits... so not wrong
Syxcfaq
Well shit. When you think about it this is absolutely correct.
Raikupath
I'm an introverted night owl but I'm currently achieving my dream of working in the movie industry. It's different for every person.
nonameidea2
Exceptions confirm the rule. Good for you!!
transientmind
Don’t forget inherited wealth.
transientmind
It is by far the single greatest determining factor of financial success.
Vareen
It's true, but it's not a characteristic of your personality, so it doesn't really belong in this list
AwesomeTeddybear
It's been researched plenty of times, and yet we refuse to do anything with the outcomes
kaoticgirl
Since my teen has been doing distance learning this year I don't get him up till 9 then just ask him not to stay up all night. I wish we 1/
kaoticgirl
Could finish school this way.
abobeaver5772
School times are designed around parents, not students. It is designed to get kids out before parents need to be at work
DrArsMoriendi
I am so annoyed the world is made for someone who wakes up at 6 am, and I have to be responsible for it
McMastered
gaenaralhonk
With lockdown I've been sleeping 4-12, feels amazing.
Attwarnerm
It's seen as commendable to get up at 5am to do get a head start on the day, but considered strange to stay up until 2am working.
BeerandCats
I get up a 5:15 - I don't like it, but it's when I have to get up
MajorTom0101
We made to decision while you were sleeping in.
HieronymousFlex
As a morning person, it's not our fault! We just like the quiet!
badatediting
I used to not be a morning person but now I wake 20 minutes before my alarm and I hate it
FluffyGreyJedi
I don't blame the morning people. I blame the people who try to make all people morning people
TheUrizen
I work nights. Its so peaceful from midnight to 6. Then you morning fuckers come shambling in bitching about your coffee ruining my quiet
mrfluffyfag
Its quiet at night as well. Coming from a night owl.
Akurei00
I'm somehow both. Love the morning the most but I harmfully stay awake as late as possible. 5 hours of sleep is enough.... Right?...
Josherman17
8 hours of sleep feels the same as 5-6 to me so.... yes?
ABonkeysManana
Companies could have a day shift CEO and a night shift CEO!
DrArsMoriendi
And the night shift supervisor is this guy called Brian who just watches movies
ThereIsntAnyCheeseInMyAss
It’s not; the world is made for squeezing the absolute most out of people for the absolute minimum of cost. The combined effects of
ThereIsntAnyCheeseInMyAss
loss of free-time, the blatant pressure to ignore mental and physical health because of the cost, the pressure to do all you can despite
ThereIsntAnyCheeseInMyAss
never actually getting the opportunities promised if you did..., the exhausting hierarchy of egotistical people above you, and no actual way
ThereIsntAnyCheeseInMyAss
to improve your living situation and health... yeah it just makes your sleeping schedule shift without normality and structure.
IllegalDuckling
Evening school and evening jobs have improved my life a thousandfold. Screw what normal society wants, make your own way.
Moose79
I work the GY shift and I’ve been happier
JHawkInc
There was a brief time period when I was job hunting that I was very productive getting 6-8 hours of sleep, starting at sunrise.
halosk8ingking
While my field of work does have evening positions, they pay far less
IllegalDuckling
I guess I got lucky, where I worked, night shift paid more because apparently not many people wanted to do it.
2graves
That's weird. Normally the party is higher
AwesomeTeddybear
Well yeah but my children's school starts very fucking early lol
IllegalDuckling
Hope they're doin' fine with it. I failed school as a kid because of that night owl thing, hence evening school it is. Finally good grades
AwesomeTeddybear
I had the same, I just skipped the first three hours and made up with homework. Got a lot of detention but made it easily on the exams :)
Akurei00
I have to have my kids at the bus stop by 6:30. It's ridiculous.
LyraTheLycan
My mate had to get up at 3:30-4am for (bus to) college and get home at 9-10pm
MechKelly
Normal for some. My work starts at 6am and I actually like it. Feel more productive throughout the day with an early start.
crazyspelling
If I start that early AND am productive, I am so fucking done by 11am.
agonarch
Yeah humans fit roughly into 3 time categories, at the moment we think it's so the early birds get up just after the night owls go to sleep.
agonarch
It's probably a development so human tribes would always have someone either awake, or at least not deeply asleep all day around.
Lionskull
my solution, get a remote job and move east a few timezones. I wake up at noon for my 9 am job. i eat dinner at 9 pm.
Meeker001
I’ve always had a theory. That the time of day you’re born has something to do with your sleep cycle. Born in the AM ur a morning person,etc
nonameidea2
What about ceasarian sections. I was born at 8 am with a ceasarian and i am a complete night person..
kingkongkeom
I dont know about wake up times, but I know I will not go camping with you
IllegalDuckling
To be honest, I can't doubt that. The season you're born in makes a pretty big difference, too, so whynot the time
Syxcfaq
Yeah sorry but neither of those is a real thing.
IllegalDuckling
There are scientific links between being born in colder or warmer months and people's issues/personality. This isn't some horoscope shit
ztygs
What scientific link?
NoNameFred
*raises hand* Born in the AM, not a morning person. So, that's at least 1 strike against your theory. Have you tried questionnaires/research
aninvisiblemaniac
idk if this is deserving of all the downvotes you're getting, I mean I definitely dont agree but you can believe this if youd like
68people
Dumb theory
AwesomeTeddybear
Kinda harsh, since it's just his theory and you're not harmed by it are you?
MaraSovsFeet
Waaaahhhyhyy fuckin baby
Neiwin
Relax, it's just a fun thing the person likes to believe lol, so fucking aggressive.
68people
Dumb comment.
freedom4scale
I was born at 4pm. What am I supposed to do?
oopsIdroppedmypocketpasta
Suffer. What is this, your first day on earth?
ARoseByAnotherUsernameWouldSmellAsSweet
What we all do, wait and eventually succumb to the all shattering wheels of time, just less well rested than others apparently
Meeker001
I was also born at 4 pm, and I’m a nite person.
korndogg83
RedWingedBlackbirds
I've had this same theory. High five internet stranger. (and forget all the haters, we're allowed to think outside the box)
understandable
With some people, the time to sleep is one of the only things they can control so they continually push the boundaries to give them a sense
understandable
Of control over their lives
nonameidea2
There is a chinese term for it, that is translated: revenge bedtime procrastination.
understandable
Did not know that, sounds about right
NorthernHalibut
Til I’m a very vengeful person.
EatYourSoylentGreenAndShutUp
Mokelzwerg
What were the outcomes?
eppykaze
That the peak levels of the hormones that control ones sleep cycle can vary up to 10 hours from person to person.
freebodydiagram
My wife and I are 4-6 hours apart on sleep. I can fall asleep as soon as it's dark. She can't until 2-4 am.
DrProfessorProfessorson
Has it caused any lingering issues for you or did it work seamlessly from the beginning? How do you make it work?
DrProfessorProfessorson
Can you direct me towards the research paper?
datester35
Not sure why this is downvoted, it's a sauce request
DrProfessorProfessorson
Me neither but hey, the whims of the community
Steps1000
Try this: https://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2017.0967 . This paper posits that sentinel-like behavior contributes to asynchronous sleep cycles.
DrProfessorProfessorson
That's amazing! Thank you. Been plaguing me since my teens
ArcanistMMXIV
That most teenagers do much better at later hours of the morning. School should run from 11 to 5. 9 to 3 is madness
NomDeDieuDePutainDeBordelDeSaloperieDeMerde
France : 8h30 to 11h30 then 13h30 to 16h30 for primary school
BeerAndChips
I loved the 2 hour lunch break and Wednesdays off
Whowhywhatwhere
730-330.
ShyShyShyShyShy
My school was 8 to 3:30
MechKelly
9 to 3? My high school went from 7 to 2:30.
WhataboutBobWiley
was fun waiting on the bus at 530am as a 7yr old
Raikupath
9 to 3? I went to primary school from 7:30 to 12
jherazob
We had 7:00 to 13:30
Omegatherion
Yeah. In germany school usually begins around this time as well.
Raikupath
Well, that's where I'm from lol
aninvisiblemaniac
what school starts at 9? that wouldve been fucking nice instead of getting up at the ass crack of dawn
im25ok
All my schools K-12 started around 8:45-9. I’m Canadian
ignimbrite
Most australian schools (and american I'm guessing) start around 9am, give or take an hour. I'm a teacher and I still see so many tired kids
aninvisiblemaniac
nah I grew up in america, used to have to get up at like 630 because school started at 730
textilelover
As an American, I get my grade 11 daughter to the busstop at 6:20.
Vareen
In Germany it started either at 7:50 or 8
ChimeraOfFury
i had elementary school 8:30-3:30 and middle and high school 7:30-2:30. you know, the opposite of what they should do.
ztygs
In Denmark it's 08:10 to 14:00 or 15:00.
jackpkmn
9-3? what heavenly lands did you grow up in? try 6:30-3.
im25ok
I’m Canadian and mine as 9-3:45