dashers
15683
486
8
This got sent to me, no idea the source. For the software developers in the room that deal with this rubbish on a daily basis.
Jul 14, 2026 1:32 PM
dashers
15683
486
8
This got sent to me, no idea the source. For the software developers in the room that deal with this rubbish on a daily basis.
mynamespaul
I’ve got 15 years of experience as a full stack developer for cybersecurity tools. Now I’m a product manager. Just a few years off tools even I feel like this sometimes. The “asking for status update for work he knows hasn’t been fully scoped or defined” one hits me so hard. I feel like a total fraud so often. I don’t have the slightest conception of how completely non-technical mangers can do it. I would be engulfed by my own anxiety and imposter syndrome and just die.
SacrificialClam
Dammit I thought they were gunna take out some lotion and a box of tissues at the end there.
Krashtestdummy
https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1eXUzbGMxNDZjOG1lZDEyMzFkcGV6NGRmMG9tMWZtZ2l5eGQyNGFwciZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/TgL7foFCdsrC8fX61v/200w.webp
beaubrent
Literally the only things a PM should do is keep people to a timeline and regular reporting. That's it. I have worked with excellent PMs with that balance that are not deeply technical and that is fine by me.
dashers
Ah yes, keeping to the timeline. When requirements turn out to be more complex, or teams are retasked, the PM keeps people to timelines, mostly through grief.
squillis
Reminds me of the reason some people hate Lord of the Rings...
https://youtu.be/i9oU7rfb-do
8ang
Now do nontechnical change management! Or inexperienced and nontechnical technical architects!
8ang
*enterprise architects
dashers
No, no, it's ok, I've worked with non-technical technical architects. The dunning Kruger effect is strong in IT.
sometimesifeellikeanut
Grumbles at all the managers that I've worked with that have never understood what a Daily Scum is for.
dreikommavierzehn
It's for making sure everyone is in the office on time and to check that the coffee machine works, right?
dashers
Or that your camera is working and you at least have a top on, and are mostly probably not already in the pub.
UsualLoser
Been doing engineering and product all my career, both up to C-level. Non tech PMs should not exist. If you can't understand how it's made and what could be built you have no reason to be around.
VindictiveBathToaster
If(droneGoingToCrash) {
(don’t) ;
else
(continue);
}
sevenfingerman
I’m actually working to get my CAPM right now. PM school makes sense, but having technical experience is just as important. Especially at lower levels.
youreathing
I'm moderately saavy. I started as a Dev but then transitioned to other roles. I always defer to the smarter people in the room though.
falconchris
The only thing devs hate more than a non technical PM is a technical PM who tells them how to do things
IToldYouSo1
🗽🤣👇
dashers
Ooo, I need to distribute this around the company's Teams channels, thanks.
IToldYouSo1
🗽😎😉✌️
aznanimality
I think I've lucked out. My non-technical PM is a fucking godsend. She filters all the stuff that clients/our team wants into actual things we should prioritize/scope down then presents them to me and I tell her what can be done quickly and what is a large amt of work and she goes back and works with them. She makes my day to day 10x easier and helps defend me against angry clients (she deals with them for me). She organizes what's high priority vs not and deals with shit I don't want to.
DianNaoChong
Had a project manager not know what a sample size or confidence interval was for. Kept telling us to hand check millions of pieces of information for 100% accuracy. I'm still mad we didn't hang up on them
GiganticBaby
It’s a tough act to balance. Tech people who become managers are often terrible at it, in my experience. Young MBAs are almost always terrible at it. The thing in common the good managers I’ve worked with had was that they were approaching retirement and wanted to have fun (and deliver value) with their team on a daily basis. They were always on our side and never GAF about upper management. Career focused young MBAs who are in lockstep with upper management are always terrible.
dashers
I've been working in IT for a quarter of a century, and I can count on one hand the number of genuinely good PMs. They are extremely rare, but can be fantastic if you do find a good one.
torquemada90
Agree, not everyone can be a good PM. Just because someone is the most knowledgeable and capable in the team doesn't mean he should be the people manager. On the other hand, non-technical PMs suck when they don't even put in the effort to understand what the techies are doing. I've been a good PM and a bad PM. Sometimes the organization doesn't allow you to be a good one
NoNoNodontstoparockin
He's probably fork lift certified.
Juddyouclown
You 100% need this guy. He’s your face man. Works both sides. Who you think goes to the c-suite and gets you more time, more realistic deadlines, and deliverables. He’s got the ability to tell them they’re not getting what they wants and still walks out their pal. He’s the reason they’re not looking for your replacement contract.
Juddyouclown
But this is also 100% accurate
FckleberryFarms
I'm not a developer. I do work in IT for non-technical managers. It's exactly this.
teardropivyyearofthetiger
I want that job - and to not be a dick
edravenau
I spend most of the day with these managers, painfully controlling the urge to shout "and how the f' do you think that's going to work!?" - I fear their answer more than the HR conversation.
Axiomatic13
I did that at Compaq/HP/HPE for 30 years. It was maddening. So many clueless middle managers.
GordonFreeman59
I've experienced something similar. I'm not a technical guy. The manager wasn't either. But he did his homeworks. Dude read 2 books per week on the topic. Watched everything he could. I went to see the developers and told them "you tought having a non-tech was the worst because he doesn't understand. Now you're gonna have a non-tech manager that is convinced he gets it. It's gonna be far worse guys". And it was.
torquemada90
As a PM who came from a technical background and have had to do a lot of PM training, all of that is pure bullshit. All the "synergies" and jargon they discuss is just money grabbers with their endless certificates that don't provide real value.
FckleberryFarms
Yea. One of mine is this also.
MusicPenguin
at some of the most egregious policy changes i started asking for an email with explicit instructions.
two weeks later these get quietly annulled.
Bojovnik84
I'd love to hear the sound they recorded without the narrator, to know what he was saying lol.
somerandomusernamebecauseididntlikemyoldone
I mean, it's clearly a skit, so unless the voiceover was not originally part of it then it's probably not that entertaining
Bojovnik84
Yeah, to me, being part of the recording process and having to make random words or sentences, to look like a real conversation, while chucking food in my face, would be funny.
Yasashii93
It’s always been wild to me that there are manager schools.
And then companies hire those people as managers. And those people have zero idea how the industry they got hired at actually works. Or any industry at all because they spent their education learning about telling people to do stuff.
What I’d do if I had to get a manager for a team is pick one of the team who shows the most leadership skills, send them to manager training and just make them manager. That way I’d have a competent one.
sadurdaynight
I do analytics. Got into Edwards demming and such. Looked for books on it at book stores. Shit tons of books on how to be a manager, but hardly any books that talk about reports, math, etc. what i found in my career is people don't need managemrnt, they need information that lets them manage themselves and know how they're doing. Did that at one job and the manager got pissed, but everyone was doing much better. She was using reports to ambush and abuse people.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Ahhh but then you would loose a competent team member.
You fool!
tallquasi
I worked help-desk at a large financial firm, my direct manager went through managerial training at Cracker Barrel, and he was one of the better ones.
Leaps
Ask Microsoft, who hired someone to be the CEO of Xbox who doesn't even play video games.
Yasashii93
CEOs are an extreme example of my point. They very rarely have any knowledge whatsoever of their industry. They’re hired because a board of directors, a bunch of businessmen, only understand business, so they hire a businessman because that’s the only decision they can make sense of.
I remember to this day that one day, while working at an HVAC company, I heard the news on the radio that the former CEO of Lego became CEO of Danfoss, an HVAC appliance company.
And that made sense to someone.
soThatWasThat
I read an article about how too tech company CEO's don't even let their kids use their own companies tech. Education for top CEOs these days are studies in Philosophy, Psychiatry, Ethics, Fine Arts, and some Economics, Finance etc. They train to understand society and people so they can develop brands, brand loyalty, and manipulate people to buy. These skills are universal across all businesses.
florpglorp
I like valves flat management
Vempire
Management is balls, and yet for some many businesses it is the only way to work your way up to decent pay and benefits. Fuck me for wanting to implement the skills I spent 4 years honing.
Yasashii93
Are you one of the manager school graduates I mentioned?
pgdave
Being a manager is absolutely its own skill and requires different expertise than doing the job that is being managed. There's no need to have the underlying technical skills at all, but you *do* need to be able to trust the people you're managing to be honest and forthright with you. I've had non-technical managers who've been great, I've have technical managers who were terrible.
Yasashii93
Everyone knows there are trustworthy people and untrustworthy people. It’s common knowledge.
So if you are in a position where you don’t know which people you can trust and which you can’t because you have no idea what they’re talking about, you’re inevitably going to make bad decisions. Plain and simple.
If you had a good non-technical manager then he might have only been good to you and undeservingly shit to others. Or maybe you just had luck and got one willing to learn.
dashers
Nobody who is technically competent is going to want to abandon that and have to deal with management. Which is how we get into this place.
Yasashii93
Want to? Be compelled to because of the pay raise? I think that would work.
dashers
Money only goes so far. IT engineering pays pretty damn good, while more money is always nice, is it worth the grief? Personally, it's a no from me.
torquemada90
not everyone wants to be a manager. A lot of people prefer doing the technical work than having to deal with delegating and paperwork.
impotence
Yeah managers don't get paid more than engineers except at dysfunctional companies. Only those at the kiddie club VP level will.
Yasashii93
Depends on the country, I suppose. In my post-communist country the manager is almost universally the highest-paid person on any given team because in my country power and authority are viewed as quantifiable worth.
SrPootStank
Where are you?
HPCmonkey
The real trick is finding somebody with the right amount of people skills, who puts their team above all else, and they are willing to "play the game" enough to keep upper management off their back while bringing down actual opportunities to drive growth in their downline and maximize everybody's bonuses, not just their own. That is often a non-technical person. The skill set is entirely different. They should know enough to understand what their team is working on, though.
HPCmonkey
In the video, that is a project manager. That person should absolutely be technical, but perhaps more of a junior technical level who decided they really did not want to dive into the deep end and pivoted into a management track. They know and understand the software stack, but are humble enough to understand they are not an expert. Develop the right pm skills with them, and they will be an ideal person to lead heavy projects to completion.
toolzgalore2
I wish "the game" was a removable obstacle. What the correct leadership team "the game" fades into existence, but when you need to only male number go up at all costs it is a lost cause
HPCmonkey
"The game" is a culmination of human pride and executive hubris. It will always exist in some form or fashion. That is why you need skillful players in the trenches of middle management.
Yasashii93
No. That’s why we don’t want “the game”.
HPCmonkey
The game is a manifestation of the nature of mankind. These natures exist. "The Game" just gives us a framework to understand it.
khora
Mangement is definitely a skill. You know this when you have worked under good management.
Yasashii93
Sure. No disagreements here.
But having worked 5 very different jobs in very different fields I can tell you the only times I felt I was under good management was when they actually knew stuff about the field.
When I worked under a manager school graduate who knew Jack shit about what we were making it was a constant stream of problems for me because he was in charge of ordering the most important parts of the system I was programming for and I would only find out that he ordered the wrong 1/2
Yasashii93
2/2 thing after arriving on scene and had to rewrite most of my program in an hour on the spot because the system, of course, had to start working that day. The manager before that one always made it so there was a day or two of error margin in case such a fuckup occurred.
But that understood one thing and one thing only: the bottom line in Excel.
And also his management burnt me out to the point of panic attacks almost every day, had me train new guys and then fired me on the spot.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
That's just a bad manager. Irrelevant of how they got to that position.
Yasashii93
My brother in capitalist dystopia, if we don’t pay attention to the mechanisms that put shit people in positions of power, we will never fix the problem.
iamlegendinjapan
I am so glad our PMs are technical
dashers
We have technical PMs, they sometimes seem worse as they have enough knowledge to be dangerous. At least the non-tech ones tend to be more accepting of their ignorance.
iamlegendinjapan
I mean technically, I am the technical PM for the development team I'm actually a PO for them but I do both things
dreikommavierzehn
that sounds like a conflict of interests
iamlegendinjapan
That I was a project manager and now I'm a product owner and technical?
dreikommavierzehn
ah nvm half-joking around. in the past I usually heard on seminars to avoid having both PO and PM role on the same person