The spirit of a lot of what theyre saying sounds right, the technicalities of several bits of it do not. I'm not a biologist or psychologist, but it seems rather unlikely we have a specific misogyny gene, so calling it biological seems wrong and arguably dismissive of the whole thing. A form of mental illness sounds plausible, not that I'd be the one to make that assessment. Regardless, as others pointed out, its sure as fuck indoctrinated and trained into people, culture is 100% a factor.
Agreed, not the women's fault, it's taught into men, indoctrination like Original Sin or incredibly weak minded men, or sociopaths, who cannot feel empathy, or can only say stupid things like "empathy is a made up New Age sin". so insecure.
It'd be cool if cis men would just stop inventing complex explanations for why hating women is natural and they can't really help it. It's not. Misogyny is something we all learn; it can be unlearned, and that's a hard an often unpleasant process, but the benefits are pretty big.
I still believe deep seated misogyny is from gay men who have been taught that being gay is evil their whole lives, usually from religion. You talk to one long enough and you are they prefer men, want to do manly things and call anything normal like cooking or shopping as "gay". Brainwashed religious people fill the misogyny role more than not, if they hate women so much they must secretly really love men.
Usually in animals we see this kind of aggression from a male who wants to force the female into esterous so he can pass on his genes. Humans attack their own children frequently for no benefit other than satisfaction of the insane individual. (Or you could say the narcissistic impulse of the attacker)
Sadism takes many forms, aka for pleasure, which is like what these abject misandrists are doing in the video: degrading people to feel better about themselves. Seriously, unless your goal is to create super duper patriarchy, avoid letting this slumping golem of clay simping for hags go around defining masculinity. The hate he inspires in anybody not already agreeing with him is going to unravel women's rights at light speed. Holy shit, what spiteful mutants puffed-up goblins.
Anyone arguing that we are 'biologically' programed, for men or women, you can safely dismiss. This is a societal and psychological programming issue, not a biological one. That being said, fuck the patriarchy.
Not all men are sexual predators are domestic abusers and people should be happy about that....
much same way the same way someone suffering from obvious skin cancer should be happy only the outside organ is suffering from cancer /s #transrightsarehumanrights #WhenifindtheSOBresponsibleimdigginguphisgraveandpissinginhisskull
As a diagnosed psychopath, never have I wanted to punch down. As someone without any inherent perception of the value of others; if I can learn to treat others with a modicum of respect then anyone can. Misogyny is nothing but a lack of social intelligence; to refer to it as if it is a pathology is to throw up one's arms and claim 'it just can't be helped'.
No. Disrespect for property or gender is still disrespect, and painting yourself with that brush does not abolish you of bias or disrespect
I was on the other end of that spectrum decades ago, what some people would call a sociopath, but more clinically is antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and a few other minor disorders mixed in for spice, but even at my worst I looked at misogynists and racists with disdain. What I learned was while I didn't chose to be that way, I was still the one responsible for controlling it. I had to restructure my entire life around keeping myself emotionally stable.
Do I appreciate when people around me take that into account and allow me accommodations? Abso-fucking-lutly. But no one owes me anything other than that which we all owe eachother. That is to say, tolerance and empathy toward everyone who offers tolerance and empathy in return. Or more simply, the social contract. Anyone who chooses to step outside of its bounds also losses the protection it offers. It's not a hard concept, or at least it shouldn't be.
Sorry; I'm Dutch, I don't quite know the terminology in English; I'll have to be descriptive. At the time the diagnosis was primary psychopathy, antisocial, flat affect, without empathy or emotion. The diagnosis was neurologically verified.
I was reading a really interesting analysis of misogyny! Every tribal society has worshipped men and women (idols, gods, etc.). With agricultural revolution larger amounts of female idols, or sometimes only female idols worshipped. Then comes the written language, and for some reason with written word comes heavy misogyny in different cultures. In the western world I can be theoretically explained by only rich men being taught to read and write therefore all books for around a hundred years
Goddess worship has literally nothing to do with how women are treated in society, and it's a common anthropological theory that patriarchy came in with the agricultural revolution because it tied people to a fixed place limiting if not removing women's ability to just leave a man they were unhappy with.
This part. Saying "I'm not like other men" or "Not all men are like that" brings little comfort when women see you support your crappy buddies or stay silent while a woman is being harassed.
Men just need to start holding each other. And, most importantly, allowing themselves to be held. At some point for most men in "western civilization" touching becomes taboo. You are allowed to touch or be touched by your wife only. Any other physical contact is, at a minimum, mocked or worse, discouraged with physical or social violence. How the fuck is momma's boy a derogatory term?
Hell, even a kind word or telling a friend "I love you" is taboo for most Western men. I grew up with friends who might grudgingly give you a compliment if they had no other choice, and I was the same way. I'm truly lucky to have made some mature friends later in life who taught me it's okay to share and be open, and who don't use it to attack you. It's a better way to live, but we deny it to ourselves in pursuit of some horrid idea of masculinity.
Meanwhile, women often hug every time they see their friends, tell them "I love you," on a regular basis, and bring their friends little gifts to show they were thinking of them. Men could learn a lot about making their men friends feel special and appreciated.
No, I don't think it's that simple. The men who do this are already in groups. the men who don't are already in other groups. I'm not bowling and hearing about another guy who hit his wife and telling him not to do that because my friends would never. Hey, we do what we can, and I've absolutely been the person who's like "maybe you should talk to her about this in this way..." but I'm not reaching the worst of the worst because I don't talk to those people.
You are exactly right. Men are not that homogenous group as it’s always talked about. Men that don’t act like that usually are not in the same group as men that are wifebeaters, rapists e.t.c Like, I never hear anyone talk like that because i do t frequent in those circles. And the odd time I have heard that kind of shit it was at a workplace from some higher up. I think then I can’t do anything about it. It’s unfortunately a self defeating circle.
It kind of is, though. You have more than just your own individual power. Men could collectively engage socially and politically to address misogyny (it's been done before) but you don't because you don't want to. You'd rather engineer your life in such a way that you don't have to deal with overt misogynists and then act like there's nothing else to be done.
Collectively engage socially and politically to address misogyny like has been done before. If you actually cared then that's enough to start googling, or at least ask a more direct questions with the goal of getting more information. But since you've fallen back on ignoring what's been said in order to whine about how unfair it is to be called useless despite being deliberately useless, I don't really think you do.
"it's every man's responsibility to found and manage a political movement" is a hell of a take. Hey, I made an IMD post and people are lukewarm to suspicious of any sort of masculine positivity.
Because that's the patriarchal take- focused entirely on the personal obligation of individual men to create and oversee actions. Again, what you need is to engage in collective action- focusing on the group and what must be done to change it's actions. And I'm sorry but you need to get the fuck over this attitude that that's too much to ask, and it's unfair that the world isn't rewarding you with immediate positive response for your trouble. 1/2
Sociopolitical movements are how change happens, period. That's the work; you cannot skip it. And it's not pleasant work. Civil RIghts wasn't easy, feminism wasn't easy. This isn't hard because it's men asking; it's just hard. You will have to build trust with allies, and you will have to weather abuse from regressive, and it'll probably take time to get anywhere substantive. But that's the work. Do it or not, but stop expecting it to be done for you. 2/2
I agree it's a men's problem. But the statement no other species on the planet works that way is questionable. Some other primates like baboons can be seen behaving similarly, for instance.
I'm not a biologist, but my understanding is that most of the time this sort of aggressive behavior is from makes who kill another male's baby in order to force the female into esterous so they can pass on their genes. Some humans, attack their own children frequently (male and female). Thankfully most humans aren't insane like this.
Yeah. I don't think I ever saw Donald have a chance with Daisy. Nor did I ever see Scrooge with a 'date.' But where the hell did Huey, Dewey, & Louis come from and what's the genealogy behind them calling both Donald and Scrooge Uncle while Donald calls him uncle too? Sounds like someone may be their own grandpa.
chata954
Casual geographical has outlined several fucked up species, but i see your point. Maybe it's like that , but maybe we just teach them to be dicks.....
Renza0
The spirit of a lot of what theyre saying sounds right, the technicalities of several bits of it do not. I'm not a biologist or psychologist, but it seems rather unlikely we have a specific misogyny gene, so calling it biological seems wrong and arguably dismissive of the whole thing. A form of mental illness sounds plausible, not that I'd be the one to make that assessment. Regardless, as others pointed out, its sure as fuck indoctrinated and trained into people, culture is 100% a factor.
KyleIsThisTall
What happened to there is no difference in genders so men in dresses can play womens sports
DJOldguy
Agreed, not the women's fault, it's taught into men, indoctrination like Original Sin or incredibly weak minded men, or sociopaths, who cannot feel empathy, or can only say stupid things like "empathy is a made up New Age sin". so insecure.
slinks360
/gallery/they-not-giving-possibility-of-more-henry-cavills-tho-37MO8Fo
Nalianna
If i could see my own father, at my current age, his age 36 years ago, I'd have destroyed him. Glad he isn't alive now.
scrumbles666
It'd be cool if cis men would just stop inventing complex explanations for why hating women is natural and they can't really help it. It's not. Misogyny is something we all learn; it can be unlearned, and that's a hard an often unpleasant process, but the benefits are pretty big.
Toqom
I still believe deep seated misogyny is from gay men who have been taught that being gay is evil their whole lives, usually from religion. You talk to one long enough and you are they prefer men, want to do manly things and call anything normal like cooking or shopping as "gay". Brainwashed religious people fill the misogyny role more than not, if they hate women so much they must secretly really love men.
thetickcannothaveaspoontoobig
[deleted]
[deleted]
GrandmasterSpank
What lizard brain?
ItsJustBluskyandImgrNow
/gallery/szU1ejt/comment/2510994755
ItHappenedInThe20thCentury
yeah, when he got to "no other animal acts this way to its own kind" I was sure it was bullshit. Before that I was only almost sure.
spinbutton3
Usually in animals we see this kind of aggression from a male who wants to force the female into esterous so he can pass on his genes. Humans attack their own children frequently for no benefit other than satisfaction of the insane individual. (Or you could say the narcissistic impulse of the attacker)
Daskarion
Sadism takes many forms, aka for pleasure, which is like what these abject misandrists are doing in the video: degrading people to feel better about themselves. Seriously, unless your goal is to create super duper patriarchy, avoid letting this slumping golem of clay simping for hags go around defining masculinity. The hate he inspires in anybody not already agreeing with him is going to unravel women's rights at light speed. Holy shit, what spiteful mutants puffed-up goblins.
IncognitoEnthusiast
Anyone arguing that we are 'biologically' programed, for men or women, you can safely dismiss. This is a societal and psychological programming issue, not a biological one. That being said, fuck the patriarchy.
SprinklesMckitten
Not all men are sexual predators are domestic abusers and people should be happy about that....
much same way the same way someone suffering from obvious skin cancer should be happy only the outside organ is suffering from cancer /s #transrightsarehumanrights #WhenifindtheSOBresponsibleimdigginguphisgraveandpissinginhisskull
IAmAnjelen
As a diagnosed psychopath, never have I wanted to punch down. As someone without any inherent perception of the value of others; if I can learn to treat others with a modicum of respect then anyone can. Misogyny is nothing but a lack of social intelligence; to refer to it as if it is a pathology is to throw up one's arms and claim 'it just can't be helped'.
No. Disrespect for property or gender is still disrespect, and painting yourself with that brush does not abolish you of bias or disrespect
DrBlackJack
I was on the other end of that spectrum decades ago, what some people would call a sociopath, but more clinically is antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and a few other minor disorders mixed in for spice, but even at my worst I looked at misogynists and racists with disdain. What I learned was while I didn't chose to be that way, I was still the one responsible for controlling it. I had to restructure my entire life around keeping myself emotionally stable.
DrBlackJack
Do I appreciate when people around me take that into account and allow me accommodations? Abso-fucking-lutly. But no one owes me anything other than that which we all owe eachother. That is to say, tolerance and empathy toward everyone who offers tolerance and empathy in return. Or more simply, the social contract. Anyone who chooses to step outside of its bounds also losses the protection it offers. It's not a hard concept, or at least it shouldn't be.
IAmAnjelen
Amen. I know *exactly* what you mean.
420supercoolusername69
Since you brought it up, what type of psychopathy?
IAmAnjelen
Sorry; I'm Dutch, I don't quite know the terminology in English; I'll have to be descriptive. At the time the diagnosis was primary psychopathy, antisocial, flat affect, without empathy or emotion. The diagnosis was neurologically verified.
420supercoolusername69
Thank you for sharing
BuiltonSin
I was reading a really interesting analysis of misogyny! Every tribal society has worshipped men and women (idols, gods, etc.). With agricultural revolution larger amounts of female idols, or sometimes only female idols worshipped. Then comes the written language, and for some reason with written word comes heavy misogyny in different cultures. In the western world I can be theoretically explained by only rich men being taught to read and write therefore all books for around a hundred years
BuiltonSin
...are written by male authors. However this theory has not explained similar in other cultures.
scrumbles666
Goddess worship has literally nothing to do with how women are treated in society, and it's a common anthropological theory that patriarchy came in with the agricultural revolution because it tied people to a fixed place limiting if not removing women's ability to just leave a man they were unhappy with.
[deleted]
[deleted]
KyleIsThisTall
You mean females, right? Or nonWhites?
KawaiiInari
This part. Saying "I'm not like other men" or "Not all men are like that" brings little comfort when women see you support your crappy buddies or stay silent while a woman is being harassed.
ElbowDeepInAHeadlessHorseman
Some have tried, but their aim is so bad...
jayman0123
TheBunnyPants
Men just need to start holding each other. And, most importantly, allowing themselves to be held. At some point for most men in "western civilization" touching becomes taboo. You are allowed to touch or be touched by your wife only. Any other physical contact is, at a minimum, mocked or worse, discouraged with physical or social violence. How the fuck is momma's boy a derogatory term?
Lampmonster
Hell, even a kind word or telling a friend "I love you" is taboo for most Western men. I grew up with friends who might grudgingly give you a compliment if they had no other choice, and I was the same way. I'm truly lucky to have made some mature friends later in life who taught me it's okay to share and be open, and who don't use it to attack you. It's a better way to live, but we deny it to ourselves in pursuit of some horrid idea of masculinity.
ThrowAwayAcct0000
Meanwhile, women often hug every time they see their friends, tell them "I love you," on a regular basis, and bring their friends little gifts to show they were thinking of them. Men could learn a lot about making their men friends feel special and appreciated.
astrangehop
No, I don't think it's that simple. The men who do this are already in groups. the men who don't are already in other groups. I'm not bowling and hearing about another guy who hit his wife and telling him not to do that because my friends would never. Hey, we do what we can, and I've absolutely been the person who's like "maybe you should talk to her about this in this way..." but I'm not reaching the worst of the worst because I don't talk to those people.
Bastiroid
You are exactly right. Men are not that homogenous group as it’s always talked about. Men that don’t act like that usually are not in the same group as men that are wifebeaters, rapists e.t.c
Like, I never hear anyone talk like that because i do t frequent in those circles. And the odd time I have heard that kind of shit it was at a workplace from some higher up. I think then I can’t do anything about it.
It’s unfortunately a self defeating circle.
scrumbles666
It kind of is, though. You have more than just your own individual power. Men could collectively engage socially and politically to address misogyny (it's been done before) but you don't because you don't want to. You'd rather engineer your life in such a way that you don't have to deal with overt misogynists and then act like there's nothing else to be done.
delcera
How? Give some concrete examples that are actually feasible to do, don't just blame and act like there's nothing else to be done.
scrumbles666
Collectively engage socially and politically to address misogyny like has been done before. If you actually cared then that's enough to start googling, or at least ask a more direct questions with the goal of getting more information. But since you've fallen back on ignoring what's been said in order to whine about how unfair it is to be called useless despite being deliberately useless, I don't really think you do.
astrangehop
"it's every man's responsibility to found and manage a political movement" is a hell of a take. Hey, I made an IMD post and people are lukewarm to suspicious of any sort of masculine positivity.
scrumbles666
Because that's the patriarchal take- focused entirely on the personal obligation of individual men to create and oversee actions. Again, what you need is to engage in collective action- focusing on the group and what must be done to change it's actions. And I'm sorry but you need to get the fuck over this attitude that that's too much to ask, and it's unfair that the world isn't rewarding you with immediate positive response for your trouble. 1/2
scrumbles666
Sociopolitical movements are how change happens, period. That's the work; you cannot skip it. And it's not pleasant work. Civil RIghts wasn't easy, feminism wasn't easy. This isn't hard because it's men asking; it's just hard. You will have to build trust with allies, and you will have to weather abuse from regressive, and it'll probably take time to get anywhere substantive. But that's the work. Do it or not, but stop expecting it to be done for you. 2/2
oldguyexlurker
I agree it's a men's problem. But the statement no other species on the planet works that way is questionable. Some other primates like baboons can be seen behaving similarly, for instance.
spinbutton3
I'm not a biologist, but my understanding is that most of the time this sort of aggressive behavior is from makes who kill another male's baby in order to force the female into esterous so they can pass on their genes. Some humans, attack their own children frequently (male and female). Thankfully most humans aren't insane like this.
L1ttl3J1m
You would not believe the amount of incestous pack rape that goes on in duck world.
JackieTreehornProductions
oldguyexlurker
Yeah. I don't think I ever saw Donald have a chance with Daisy. Nor did I ever see Scrooge with a 'date.' But where the hell did Huey, Dewey, & Louis come from and what's the genealogy behind them calling both Donald and Scrooge Uncle while Donald calls him uncle too? Sounds like someone may be their own grandpa.
FestusMA
Chickens do this also.
ItHappenedInThe20thCentury
and Dolphins
spinbutton3
Ducks kept in captivity?
L1ttl3J1m
Well, mine are, but the ones down at the duckpond aren't.
spinbutton3
I was wondering if that changes their behavior. But I don't know anything about wild duck behavior