SaltinessIncranate
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Jul 29, 2022 6:55 PM
SaltinessIncranate
93240
1496
11
lildude52ca
As a non American... What did i miss this time?
NeverDownvoteMelBrooks
*tiny violin*
ReaperCDN
Hey China, get fucked. - Sincerely, everybody else.
yingjun
So, it will change the way things are. Wow. insightful. I guess I can work for the foreign ministry.
happyrabbitzz
Grenateh
Fuck China we need affordable shit here we’re on year 3 of significant chip shortages
RunningDroid
Sauce: https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-says-us-chip-act-will-distort-global-semiconductor-supply-chain-2022-07-29/
TremendousDude5
thinkybrainpains
lol. fuck your monopoly
Blunderwriter
Who cares what China says.
OmnipotentBeing
Or Russia. We should not care what either country ever cries about.
Hu3vosRanch3ros
At work we got some ICs RMA'd back to us. We tested them then decapped them because they looked off and they where chinese knock offs.
blwoodcock
Unfortunately that bill will only funnel money to the super rich, and will not affect chip availability at all.
rowanww822000
Desperately trying to regain all the top end manufacturing that was offshored by the last generation to maximise profits
BurrowsForge
Act only requires 5% of the company to be in the US, so probably not much of an impact really.
EggFooYung
It might, in five years or more when (if) the factories actually get built.
BakaPhoenix
The chip act will give Intel around 20b$ and nothing to amd and nvidia so they aren't lying but I don't think they are referring to this
DukePhelan
If it pissea China off we should definitely do it. Same for Pelosi's visit to Taiwan. Fuck China.
InariPakannen
Translation: you are making us make much less money in the future.
RickO3611
Oh, you're cheating our cheating. That's cheating you cheating cheaters. Or.. short version. Waaaaaa
JorElmasterofscheduling
bstringrocks777
Wow, sounds like theyll go broke and have nearly nothing going for them if semi-conductors are no longer outsourced... just fuck off
lildude52ca
As a non American... What did i miss this time?
mrB3ND3R
"It's not fair! We were cheating the system fair & square!" - Winnie the Pooh probably
tracereading
We can use something else already. People like Pooh and there's no party forcing them to.
ProppaGanda
Or the article is actually bullshit corporate propaganda. The bill never states that the money needs to be invested in US production.
ProppaGanda
The corporations can use that money for buybacks and now are trying to push xenophobic sentiments to gain public support.
Dopeden
TCGView
You mean China won't control or have influence over the vast majority of chip fabs anymore? Someone think of the CCP!
arthurvanhoudt
With price undercuts China has ‘taken’ large part of semiconductor industry. Result - at least in EU - no local competition exists.
fuelpergallon
This is just not accurate.
Dopeden
Haha no! That would be TSMC from Taiwan also the machines that make the wafels with semiconductors are made in the EU.
logicaltuvok
Stroopwafel.
fuelpergallon
Some of them. Many are made in the US, Cymer is the one you’re thinking of. Many are also made in Japan.
Dopeden
No I was thinking of ASML, but don’t know what Cymer is to be honest
fuelpergallon
ASML is the company that bought Cymer. Cymer still designs and manufactures EUV in the US.
arrogantengineer
What has China taken exactly? SMIC is junk. China is unsuccessfully throwing money at the problem. It's all TSMC and ASML, not China.
arrogantengineer
At least for anything advanced. I don't think they are doing well on mature nodes either. Hence all the money and corporate espionage.
arthurvanhoudt
Yup, they did that in 2015!!! Se my link earlier.
qPRdxH4UXm36HS9rJgLA
Well SMIC claims to have started 7nm commercial production. But I would take that with several large grains of salt.
qPRdxH4UXm36HS9rJgLA
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-chipmaker-smics-7nm-process-is-reportedly-copied-from-tsmc-tech
arthurvanhoudt
China is very dominant in 5G equipment. I had that in mind. Also they stole info @ ASML.
arthurvanhoudt
https://www.ad.nl/tech/diefstal-asml-kennis-begon-met-twee-slimme-chinezen~ab8f8d84/
arthurvanhoudt
Use google translate on url
arrogantengineer
5G specifically is a different story, but for semiconductor industry (fabs) China has a comparatively tiny market share.
arthurvanhoudt
You’re right, I was thinking about 5G equipment
remaog42
China took ARM.
Dopeden
StarmineRendezvous
*WAITS FURIOUSLY*
StarmineRendezvous
Oops, capslock. Kinda made it funnier to me so I'll keep it that way.
BarryTheBrit
Isn’t this also so if they storm into Taiwan and capture the chip factories the west will not want to go in and cripple industry. It’s bad
Ghlargh
Several reasons, both geopolitical and weather/earthquakes. Both EU and US are starting to incentivize building of local fabrication.
BarryTheBrit
Yep. Intel are planning large fans in the EU. Shame the UK is missing out on that post Brexit.
BarryTheBrit
Fabs not fans.
GriffinMann41
I say this every time I see it but china has 0 reason to invade Taiwan, not even for the chips. Those facilities are so very fragile that 1/
GriffinMann41
you would effectively ruin them. It's posturing, and that's all it will be. They would gain nothing, and Taiwan is protected by *huge* 2/
GriffinMann41
global and regional powers. Semiconductors and their manufacturing is such a complex, fragile process that *any* sort of attack on Taiwan 3/
GriffinMann41
would basically by necessity of how modern combat works, immediately ruin those production facilities and make the entire idea worthless 4/4
prolorus
20 yr ago the semiconductor industry SOLD China the tech to make chips. Caused furor, but corporations did it anyway. What could go wrong?
mmmurppp
Part of the agreement was to teach their engineers. Also US chip factories like Texas Samsung only make simple chips, I was told.
reineseele
"Profits never lie."-Republican Liar
yingjun
Used to work for SMIC. Interesting place.
SlightlyDodgy
The number of counterfeit chips of certain types are being produced 3:1 from China. I have hundreds of MCU's, timers, EPROM's, op amps and
Vloudimestre
How do you recognize them? Asking for a coworker.
SlightlyDodgy
Some are hard to ID, others are so obvious you can't help saying 'fuck' really loudly when you see how much cash you have lost.
SlightlyDodgy
https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Counterfeit+chips+IC%27s+ is a pretty good starting point
Oxymuncher
Didn’t they find counterfeit chinese chips in US fighter jets? Or something equally absurd
SlightlyDodgy
Probably. It's extremely hard to spot certain components as fakes. I went to a job interview for a company who specialises is supply chain
SlightlyDodgy
Certification. You sourcrd components, and my job would have been to get copies of every transaction paperwork between factory and supplier
SlightlyDodgy
And every broker in-between, to confirm with absolute certainty that the part was what it claimed it was and of the stated grade, and to
SlightlyDodgy
Many more that are all fake. Fakes come about through various sources. Intention clones, usually PIC's or FEPGA's depending on application
SlightlyDodgy
Others are 3rd shift stock, made after hours by a skeleton team with company stock & no QC, & like these you have day shift stock that fails
SlightlyDodgy
QC, & is diverted on route to the incinerator to the staff who sell them at bazaars etc, later appearing on AliExpress and eBay etc. Finally
SlightlyDodgy
Some chips are desoldered from PCB's, cleaned, and remarked to appear to be a different comparable chip where the pins are the same but the
barnwolf
And their tech has remained a decade behind ever since. The market for decade old processors is extremely low profit.
barnwolf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd6iZFPiCFQ
talldrink413
We should definitely pass this law then
Cheesynipnop
No the semiconductor companies are already building these insanely expensive facilities, they are looking for a handout
talldrink413
Taiwan is the gorilla chip producer. Without chips Taiwan becomes secondary issue as does China then. Fuck globalization.
kawraith
Why not pass a better law? One that requires union jobs on US soil and doesn't gift free billions to the corps that caused this whole mess?
Asadsadsadclown
Fuck China, but this will actually fuck us. The plants this funds the building of are in Arizona and Texas. Chip plants us an incredible
MapleSyrupMafia
I don't understand why they don't build those close to the ocean. They have to treat the water anyway.
SlightlyDodgy
There are very few desalination plants - it's extremely expensive, mistakes can kill, and it can be environmentally bad - poorly sited and
SlightlyDodgy
Badly run plants are changing the salt:water ratio many miles out to sea, making some fish scarce there causing other fish to move away too.
Asadsadsadclown
The issue is not really the availability of water but our rampant misuse. We have spent decades terraforming the western states.
Asadsadsadclown
amounts of water. The AZ plant in particular is going to be drawing ground water for its supply. Which ground water resources are already
Asadsadsadclown
dwindling. And the Dept of the interior is demanding western states cut usage of Colorado river water equal to the usage of the entire state
yepthatguy
Asadsadsadclown
of AZ in order to prevent the Hoover dam from being shut down from a lack of water in the next few years.
Asadsadsadclown
https://mead.uslakes.info/level.asp Current water level is 1040 Feet MSL. Hoover Dam needs 1050 Feet MSL to generate electricity.
morelikeconsham
Not to mention the fact that the US federal government has no business sending jobs to shitholes like TX and AZ.
Asadsadsadclown
The plants were already under construction and have been for some time. Before all this bullshit started.
Asadsadsadclown
Correction: U.S. Bureau of Reclamation
JackingMeHoff
China wants to take over Taiwan's global chip industry which accounts for 66%. China is afraid America will beat them to it.
3OH22A
They can't. If they invaded Taiwan, all support for the equipment needed to make chips would cease. The fabs would be fucked.
JackingMeHoff
China is dumping tons of $$ to upgrade their silicon wafer industry. They would have their own fabs = to Taiwan's.
GaySocialistLiberalMuslimCommieAtheist
China doesn't need to invade. Remember, they may have the name of communist party. But they operate as a cutthroat dystopian corporation.
JackingMeHoff
Military invasion most likely not. As the did with HK, Beijing installed their judges and their people in gov't then passed laws >
JackingMeHoff
< making street protests - per se - a crime. That's how they invade and take control. Gov't rule controls industry.