Uglytattoos
118388
4787
113
Jan 26, 2021 6:58 PM
Uglytattoos
118388
4787
113
jillofmanytrades
I grew up in Nebraska, right on top of the Ogallala Aquifer. The idea of the pipeline was terrifying, I'm glad Biden stopped it.
DukeSliscus
Gonna have to write a letter to my elected representative over this.
OlRusty12
Finally, someone just lays it out for me.
Shwayzie
A lot of Canadians never wanted to pipeline to be built anyway so canceling it is good news ?
SyndromeofaDowns
My anxiety was fine until I read the par lt about the aquifer. I thought the concern was just seepage into ground water.
onecowboytoo
That is what an aquifer is.
AslanTheGod
Not to mention, all of the Native land (some sacred) that would be destroyed along with wildlife.
MrsFartSimpson
Canadian here, I could not be happier that Biden shut that down. Fuck you Alberta!
Fjdks
Fuck Alberta? Yeah fuck the province supporting the east coast! Booo
vladimirlastraud24
That pipeline would have been a nightmare to maintain and a disaster waiting to happen.
MattLefferts
Doesn't it also illegally cut through Native American territory against their will?
motoalchemist
alsao, all thosae "jobs" ted cruz went on about...they were very temporary
SansAandAnguS
What about the environmental cost of digging up and selling that filthy shit to begin with?
Merlin1179
They want it to go to the gulf coast because that’s where the refineries already exist that process this type of heavy crude.
allireallywantisastrongdrinkandacomfyplacebythefire
Also it goes straight through native american territories. Against their wishes.
NinjaCongo
This is putting it mildly...
XEndeadX
Funny how when a company gets more money and power, they use it to cut out jobs with increased automation and efficiency. I'm starting to-
XEndeadX
think maybe trickle down isn't the best option.
michaelfire
Actually its tar sand- ultra low quality high polluting, water wasting owned by Kochs https://www.reuters.com/article/idUS336798587820110525
Northernwest
Koch would lose out on Keystone. He already processed tar sand oil in MN with 4 pipelines. More access to tar sands would drive up price
Northernwest
Hurt margins. China and other refiners in TX would win out. Particularly those that already import heavy Venezuelan crude. Citgo for example
Northernwest
Is owned by Venezuela and can't get it's crude due to sanctions. The oil market is wicked complex. The winners are not always who you think.
Snarklepuff
Shouldn't be making extracting tar sands oil any easier. The whole operation is an ongoing ecological disaster.
Chrispybobispy
I have a hard time believing only 35 people would be employed for all pumpstations... maybe per pumpstation.
NotSoFastener
Just because there are multiple facilities doesn't mean that they would be permanently staffed. There were multiple inspection gauge launche
NotSoFastener
rs on the Prudhoe Bay pipeline, but the number of times they were used prior to the 2006 spill was zero.
Uglytattoos
I linked one source in a reply, but multiple sources use the exact same “35 employee” number when discussing permanent jobs
Chrispybobispy
I've worked with (not for) other pipeline companies. And it seems even a small pumpstaion has several employees and a PS every 50ish miles
InfiniteNoodle
usually you can have 1 guy check a lot of pump stations. there are people with that job. they drive around all day just checking them
InfiniteNoodle
when they find something wrong then they would call in more people to fix it. theyre usually unmanned. just checked everyday.
dasoffendor
there are contractors yeah but yeah even TC admitted in their paperwork it was going to create less than 100 permanent TC jobs
MikeyGauges
Thankfully actions are finally coming for Flint that still doesn't have drinking water.
backrideup9
Is Anchorage just too dangerous to pull tanker ships into? If it's just going to China, that's a much shorter route.
bernash97703
Pipeline in AK ends in Valdez- oil is pumped directly into tankers at the Marine terminal. Port of Anchorage is huge controversy$$$$$
Northernwest
Line south is cheaper. Flat mostly. Up to AK is rather far and mountainous. They could go eat to Vancouver. That has been talked about
Uglytattoos
It is being sent South to be refined first. It’s not being sold to China unrefined.
WoodyGoodman
I think trees are the main thing we ship to china in their raw form. Like entire logs, instead of making the lumber here in Canada.
WoodyGoodman
Also, I'm saying that like it's a bad thing. Like, a really fucking atrociously horrible fucking thing.
mightyjazzman
Thanks, was wondering why the Chinese ships didn't just go direct to Canada
DigYourselfBaby
There are protected areas near the BC coast around Haida Gwaii - it would be an unimaginable loss if there was a spill there.
whyexactly
because too many people complain about that route too
DigYourselfBaby
'too many'? How about 'that route is not useable due to the necessary protections in the area'.
GenStrike
Canadian here: I'm pissed as hell that Trudeau ever got involved in KXL in the first place. We need to reduce our reliance, not double down.
IMTanuki
The reason for shipping shale oil to TX is that the Koch brothers own the only refinery in the US that can process it.
BearsIndiansAndSuch
That is 100% not true. Most gulf coast refineries run heavy crude and are using this barrel in some capacity.
Northernwest
They do own such a refinery but ita in MN and already has a 4 pipelines. Keystone would actually increase the price of CA oil hurting Koch.
Northernwest
The Koch refinery in Texas can't process CA oil. Their are other US refiners of heavy CA oil too. Such as BP Whiting outside Chicago.
AnythingMuchShorter
I hate the argument that "this environmental move will kill x jobs" we aren't obligated to use a sub-optimal form of energy to funnel a
AnythingMuchShorter
small portion of the proceeds to a few workers. Most of it goes to the company. It would actually make more sense to do what is best when
AnythingMuchShorter
taking the economy, energy needs and the environment into account, and then spend some money on aid for people who need to transition to
AnythingMuchShorter
other job roles. Not lifetime welfare, but help staying afloat and retraining. We can't keep dead industries alive because change is hard.
MisterLemons
Imagine if, and hear me out on this guys, losing your job was a setback instead of a bill-of-sale for your soul or a fucking death sentence.
DigYourselfBaby
The Canadian federal govt has already pledged to retrain in renewables. They could be working in those industries right now if they wanted.
ItsActuallyDavidNow
This is great and all, but for me to make an argument which will be ignored I need some citations. Not being capricious, just thorough.
berserk
Seems strange to send it to gulf of Mexico, and then ship it to china, when it seems shorter to send it to the west coast and ship.
Uglytattoos
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/what-keystone-pipeline
noctynight
Dot.
BadAxeBob1
Dot! Because I also wanted a source, thank you
Northernwest
NRDC? Harley unbiased. NYT reporting and other news outlets are way better. At least they have standards. NRDC claims all need fact checks.
brownieblue
Being that it claims to be "just the facts" is suspicious enough. The pipeline already exists and runs from Canada to Houston. This is 1/
brownieblue
just an upgrade in diameter and a better path. The post is misleading and very incomplete
mofojar
For one, why would you ship oil to China from the Gulf of Mexico? This pipeline is for Canada to sell oil to the USA via US gulf refineries
PorkBarrelTrollitics
The reason the pipeline is being killed is because it will be unnecessary in 10 years, no one will want that oil
brownieblue
I disagree. As world oil depletes, value increases.
Cheomesh
Citation?
Uglytattoos
Something I’ve read in a few places, is Canadian shale is so expensive to extract, that the only way any major company will invest in/
Uglytattoos
A big project is if they can lower transportation costs with something like the pipeline. But that doesn’t mean we need that oil, just/
Uglytattoos
That they (and Canada) wants to make a bunch of money and need us to believe it’s necessary to help them do so.
NaughtButOne
As a Canadian, I assure you that "we" do not want the pipeline anymore than you do. As always, it's special interest groups. The majority >
NaughtButOne
> opinion for *decades* has been that Alberta needs to abandon its oil fixation, but they just *will not*. It's a cultural identity to a >
DigYourselfBaby
Should be "They (and Alberta)". Not all of Canada is addicted to oil. i, personally, am ashamed of my western brothers.
whatwouldudowith
Uhhh keep dreaming. Even if we stop burning oil in personal vehicles tomorrow those pipelines will be full for fifty years, tractors and 1/2
Predicto
Our economy is dependent on oil, but not on shitty expensive low quality Canadian shale oil
whatwouldudowith
Awe you’re so cute, you know we make many different things from different oils right pumpkin. That’s like calling soft wood shitty
whatwouldudowith
Ships aren’t Remotely close to being replaced by electric vehicles not to mention literally every product you use has petroleum chemicals/3
tlamstrike
We've had electrically driven ships for 120 years. Many ships have electric transmissions we just need to change where the power comes from.
whatwouldudowith
Yeah I’m talking about the 140,000 horse power engines that create the electricity for weeks without stopping. We haven’t even made a 1/2
whatwouldudowith
Tractor that can produce 600hp and stay running long enough to service farmers. I don’t think your little walnut has grasped how much 2/3
whatwouldudowith
In it and oil lubricants in their manufacturing. You can’t even imagine how dependant our society is on oil. 3/3
DigYourselfBaby
A few folks on imgur have pointed that out, &, looking into it, many of those things will change soon. Not all, but many, this year alone.
whatwouldudowith
Yeah things are going to use cleaner energy sources and that is really great but oil is necessary to our society and always will be.
ClumsyBagOfSaltWater
This fails to address the environmental impact of "thousands of truck drivers".
antleroid
Wonder how much gas those trucks need to run?
vengfish
As is the shale oil is unprofitable to mine. It will not be shipped by trucks. The pipeline would make it profitable and lower 1/?
vengfish
The price of oil, this prolonging our dependence. Corps aren't dumb, when renewable is cheaper than oil they will be all over that.
armenite
Get them jobs converting us to renewable energy sources.
rodfood
Get them jobs picking up trucker bombs from the roadside.
yingjun
yeah but the people who love pipelines don't give a shit about pollution. but they pretend to love truckers.
antithesiscontrarian
Truckers days are numbered with self driving ones coming
Sage042000
No. There will always need to be a person present in case of accidents, break downs, theft, etc. The insurance cost of having a massive
Sage042000
/2 unmanned vehicle on the road, filled with millions of dollars of merchandise would be astronomical.
antithesiscontrarian
They've allready been proven safer more cost effective and efficient than with a human counter part you are wrong
Sage042000
Like I said, a human still needs to be there to cover accident, theft and other unexpected events. No one is gonna put millions worth of
toolarchy5
Oil spill versus emissions, six of one and half dozen of the other. Pipeline is a corporate want, not a world need.
noctynight
Better than directly dumping sludge into our water supply.
kittybuttwiggle
It doesn't fail, it just has no reason to because it's not what the people this is aimed at are touting.
ClumsyBagOfSaltWater
I thought it was neither left or right, merely facts.
tentacularfleshscape
We can talk about one thing at a time
kittybuttwiggle
It's easy to forget that facts can be used in the forming of partisan stances.
ClumsyBagOfSaltWater
And it is easier to create that stance when some facts are omitted. It is fine to be biased, but the OP claims to not be when it indeed is.
kittybuttwiggle
Again this is blatantly not a full review of the project, which you seem to expect. It's three paragraphs mostly about the question of jobs.
Giantmutantcrab
Check the Exxon Valdez.
kruttlapp
It also doesn’t cover the obvious environmental impact of practically limitless mobility of shale at low cost, through pipelines, that will1
kruttlapp
Keep it in demand.. why? Because it’s missing the point that is being made; Job protection and job creation.
ClumsyBagOfSaltWater
It also speaks of environmental impact, but not in the balanced way the first line purports.
kruttlapp
True, he does mention it to strengthen his point. In my understanding he’s just trying to make a point about job protection, thus my comment
kruttlapp
Also, it’s not speaking to us that understand the environmental implications. It is speaking to those who support the pipeline against3
kruttlapp
Their own interest.
JayEnfield
I always find "job protection" an extremely weak argument. Paying people to keep doing an obsolete job is waste.
DigYourselfBaby
That's why the auto industry took a bailout - they were told time and again to diversify, but wouldn't. Shouldn't have been bailed out. :/
kruttlapp
I agree! I am saying that the point the author was making was one of job protection, not environment.
ThePickliestRick
I feel trains would be a better option. Lower risk of spills, still require a lot of non-oil related jobs, lower environmental risk.
dasoffendor
they are used to get them to the ports, you still need trucks or pipes to get them to the loading facility
LorindaLogan
And can be used for something else after all that toxic sludge has been used.
Northernwest
Oh God no. A whole town in Canada blew up from a crude train.
LorindaLogan
I was thinking of something besides petroleum products.
Asharp1
There is (what's left of) a little town called Lac-Mégantic Quebec that indicates otherwise.
Trollingstoned
In addition to what other commenters said, there is no way the rail companies actually try to make it safe. Google LacMegantic rail disaster
Whatsourvectorvictor
Lake Mégantic would like to have a word...
desmoquattro
Unfortunately the opposite is true - but you conceive of them being safer bc the rail companies don't report the vast majority of accidents.
desmoquattro
In Canada they have their own investigations and policing and don't report to the public. You'll never hear about a spill in the wilderness.
eadanke
It depends on what you're worried about. If it's property and human life, then pipeline wins, if it's oil spilled, train wins. However>>>
eadanke
Train was the hands down winner before 2013 when accidents jumped up considerably. I don't know why at the moment.
Chrispybobispy
Trains jam up other commerce and definatly aren't safer than pipelines. Not advocating just stating what I know
Dz1n3
And that is why Warren Buffet &Berkshire Hathaway was hell bent in stopping it. They own BNSF. They weren't thinking of the people, but 1/2
Dz1n3
2/2 their bottom line. They didn't stand with the natives. They didn't do it to be environmentally friendly. Money+Greed
toonsniped
I believe so as well. However the evidence isn't conclusive because of how much is covered up.
sarah1047
Stop trying to make trains happen, Rachel. They aren't going to happen
Rustykoontz
They derail alot msm never covers most derailments
heywoodjabme
It doesn’t fit the story, but pipelines are the safest form of transit. If it is purely about the environment the trucks/trains should end.
heywoodjabme
The reality is these issues will continue to be issues until a “real” transition to non-fossil fuel energy becomes a reality.
Merlin1179
Trains derail far more often than pipelines leak. And loading/unloading the train cars causes spillage. Plus the cars themselves can leak.
chuckling
and also more environmentally friendly.
Hyuoma
That’s not really true, shipping and rail are the safest options for oil transport https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43390.pdf
Hyuoma
Making sure that a pipeline that’s almost 2000 Kms long has no leaks is pretty difficult, much easier to inspect trains and ships for leaks.
Jackofslayers
important factor is that long car trains spill more. when the avg US freight was 50 cars or less the spills were on par with pipelines
Jackofslayers
Over time high demand and low regulation have led to the use of 100+ car trains carrying oil. Those are much more likely to derail.
nikkinikorasu
I'd still be inclined to believe that those all still have less impact than a single leak.
RiseOfThePotato
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Mégantic_rail_disaster
nikkinikorasu
Is this typical of a rail disaster, though? I'll have to dig deeper.
bigkingdingaling
Trains are expensive and pollute the air to run vs just pumping oil
ThePickliestRick
Depends on the train. Pumping oil also causes pollution. And pipe spills are devastating to the ecosystem comparatively.
ThePickliestRick
And my focus is on environmental impact over cost. Money is arbitrary. Ultimately I'd prefer clean energy and renewables but, baby steps.
ClumsyBagOfSaltWater
Trains are way better than trucks.
perfectlyrics
In order to pump the oil, they have to heat it to extremely high temperatures, since it is essentially tar. Otherwise it won't flow.
Chrispybobispy
Its blended with other products to make it more viscous . The heat is just for the blending process
Uglytattoos
Seems like a good incentive to focus on clean energy train power.
bigkingdingaling
You'd think. Train companies have too much power and fight any improvements sadly. They own the rails and why travel is $$$
PanNonOpticon
It's incredible expensive to electrify a railroad track
Uglytattoos
More expensive than cleaning up potentially millions of gallons of spilled oil?
Orzufancylad
Something that also gets missed is that the majority of the workers currently employed by TC energy that lost their jobs were Canadians.
gluttonygreedpridewrathslothlustenvy
Used to work for a company doing biz with TransCanada, till our CEO found out abt Keystone. Walked away from multi-year, lucrative contract.
DukeOfAnkhMorpork
Ninjainslippers
Politicians in Alberta were freaking out when Biden got elected. There was talk of them suing the US if he blocked the pipeline.
AmandaDunne
Politicians in Alberta are fucking stupid. Everyone in AB freaking out about this pipeline can crawl in a hole. We have so many other
AmandaDunne
Resources at hand. And maybe now we can diversify into different fields. I’m no genius but I’m a firm believer that all problems have good
AmandaDunne
Solutions of someone thinks critically enough about them.
Orzufancylad
Thank goodness they have Ted Cruz representing them.
catherinecc
Many big infrastructure projects up here are done with temporary foreign workers.
Orzufancylad
Ted Cruz cares more about Albertans than Albuquerqueans.
NotAHugeSpider
That's Ted's whole life story: always making Right turns.
stardewvalley28
And He doesn’t care about parisians at all
WyoScott
And he hates Paris too!
Proelmocan23
Wasn’t he born in Calgary?
Orzufancylad
I couldn't come up with a good match for Calgary, so I just took the lazy route.
tigoisactuallymynameontheperiodictable
As a union Albuquerquean, fuck Ted Cruz and fuck the keystone pipeline
NotAHugeSpider
Fuck Ted Cruz with the Keystone Pipeline?
HolaDEA
Eh probably true but us Albertans are already too busy being assholes
wookietiddy
Hey I'm one of those. Albuquerquean.
notyetadaddy
Ted Cruz cares more about Calgarians than Covingtonians
darknyght00
Well that's just false- neither of those things are himself or the corporations that have their hands up his ass
SgtLuftwaffles
Or the dicks in his mouth
theyallwenttoMexico
That's true but I bet you couldn't wait for a chance to say, 'Albuquerqueans'.
Orzufancylad
Get out of my head.
Thymantistoboggan
Orzufancylad
It comes in two parts. Cruz is Canadian. He didn't even renounce his citizenship till 2013. Also, he said the following : >
Orzufancylad
captapathy
Canadian here. Screw oil. And keep CriminalCruz.
whatwouldudowith
There’s a pipeline going into your house turn it off for the winter and see how you feel about oil and gas
HUGHgReaction
We need oil, we can’t just cut it off today. That said we need to accelerate the move away from it.
ishouldprobablybeworkingrightnow
No. You take him
captapathy
Double locking the border, no takebacks.
flacoloco
hold up, we dont want that shit stain in a hobo's underwear
HiddenSanity
Sorry, he decided you're more his type.
ImSorryFriend
Just because someone made some garbage on our property doesn't mean you had to elect it, though.
TitanicHemorrhoid
When Canada sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're bringing corrupt politicians, they're bringing insipid pop stars, 1/2
TitanicHemorrhoid
they're Celine Dion. And some, I imagine, are good people.
onlyhalfghost
We gave you Trebek and Rush, those were the good people.
Evern
It’s not our fault you guys never liked The Hip.
captapathy
Ok, I had to upvote that. You got us. But for every Beiber, you get a Trebek, too.
icantthinkofaname42
The Ryan's, Seth Rogan, Sutherland's, Carrey.... Just a few....
DigYourselfBaby
Who could have been making money in renewables by now if the Alberta government wasn't so afraid of change.
whatmakesushuman
Absolutely. Fuck you, Jason!
DigYourselfBaby
Yea, Jason, you whiny little fucker, get back behind your mother's skirts! "bUt tHe tRanSfeR pAymEnTs...".
Twiddist
Why change when it won't be their problem? By the time the oil sands dry up all these Canadian Trumpers will be retired or dead.
probablyshouldbedoingwork
They'll learn the hard way, the same way BC learned in the 80s with lumber and the maritimes learned with the fish. You have to diversify
CannonFolder
... Don't think the Maritimes really learned...
ipoopedmybum
The AB government was elected because they are pro energy. Cant blame them for fighting for what their voters want, its their job.
ipoopedmybum
I don’t see why Albertans cannot see that oil and gas is not the future. Yes we need these resources to transition away,
ipoopedmybum
But to depend on it for their economy? Yikes. Canada in general needs to begin to pivot away. But sadly the death of keystone just means
ipoopedmybum
That the transmountain pipeline is looking that much better.
LarvaeToLeech
The Albertan government loves change, but only if they can pull it out of their constituents pockets to toss in the bullshit well.
CaldariBob
1.5 billion down the shitter for Keystone, for starters. 6 billion in loan guarantees for TC. 4 billion lost on bullshit UCP investment...
CaldariBob
...strategies. 4.5 billion in tax cuts for corporations that netted exactly 0 new jobs. If Notley isn't back in power in 2023, that...
CaldariBob
...fat little fuck will completely bankrupt the province. The UCP took the absolute worst of the PCs AND the Wildrose & crammed them into...
leroy666
Not just afraid of change. Watch where Kenney ends up when he is turfed as Premier. Just like Brad Wall; a shill for Big Oil. In the pocket!
ciscoxing626
So Canadian jobs don't matter? Maybe if Canada started turning off pipelines and dams and food trucks and medical supplies you would notice
TheLastUsernameNotRegistered
US Needs the oil windmills are useless solar? Meh. It will get built the crisis isn't going away
glenlochie
Skip your medication again?
SniperTeamTango
Canadian here, lets not ask why we dont get a damn refinery build in AB...? We need jobs here, and industry too.
leroy666
Sure. And the US wouldn't retaliate. Give your head a shake, titfucker.
pookieeatworld
Canada is not to be fucked with.
Orzufancylad
Canadian jobs shouldn't matter to American politicians, no.
pygmypufftrampstamp
Our economies are pretty closely intertwined and we are each other's largest trading partner. Some consideration can be made as long as /1
pygmypufftrampstamp
it isn't hugely harmful to the other. I'm not saying I supported the pipeline, just that jobs on both sides of the border are important.
Orzufancylad
What is Doug Ford currently doing to save American jobs?
pygmypufftrampstamp
He's trying to maintain trade and safety, but to be fair, I dislike him and his policies and think he's a 2 faced twatwaffle.
SniperTeamTango
What's mitch mconnel doing? Not the same level. Not even remotely close. And I think you knew that.
telecomteardown
ITT it is more environmentally friendly to use a pipe, but yes everything else in that post stands.
ImSorryFriend
What about the lowered opportunity cost leading to an increase in production? Barrel for barrel comparisons are disingenuous.
Burke616
Look at how often existing pipes spring leaks, and how slack-ass the cleanup jobs on those leaks are. There's fewer spills with trucks.
ItWasntSupposedToBeThisWay
It's more environmentally friendly to not use the garbage they want to pump through that pipe. There's cheaper, more environmentally 1/
ItWasntSupposedToBeThisWay
2/ ways to get power. The pipeline would just make a few rich people richer and cost us all. Good riddance.
TylerVelte
Oh... so we’re concerned about the most environmentally friendly way to ship CRUDE OIL?
telecomteardown
Not at all. There are plenty of other reasons not to build an oil pipeline or even extract it from the ground in the first place.
KinetoPlay
If you're worried about environmental friendliness you may want to look up what oil is.
aintnothinbutahounddog28
Well thats true ONLY if theres no leaks. There have already been several. In theory it might be environmentally better, but not in practice
toonsniped
The governments information is no less incomplete. Especially when you looked at oil levels in ground water verses reported leak/spills.
BanditKablooie
I worked 15 years in petro maintenance and environmental cleanups. Pipes always leak. Petro is corrosive. UG pipes leak silently.
digitist
Sure, but the people responsible for keeping it friendly don't really have a great track record.
telecomteardown
No doubt. Regardless we don't need to make further long term investments into fossil fuels.
toonsniped
I do not believe that it is more environmentally friendly to use pipes over such large distances. Oil companies cover up pipe leaks/spills.
telecomteardown
Not to mention that KXL would be yet another broken treaty with Native Americans.
Mcknizzle
Who are we to break tradition though???
jskskj8888
Unfortunately nobody cares about Native Americans. They are the most under represented people in America. And our govt screws them over
jskskj8888
Every chance they get. It's so sad that such a beautiful culture has been destroyed by rich white men. It really angers me.
Itchy73
And rich white women. And everyone else not native born here in the last few hundred years who enjoys the land.
jskskj8888
It was the rich white men who decided what land they got, and took away when gold was found on their land. It was the rich white men that
arcadia2000
*so many beautiful cultures <3
jskskj8888
Yes several beautiful cultures. So many different native nations that are destroyed.
bonosboner
Until it breaks or leaks.
RyanHaynes
When there's no risk of polluting that much drinking water, sure. In the long term, I'd say the pipeline may have had more dire consequences
PutItInNeutral
I have petroleum pipelines going through my neighborhood. People don't even know it's there. I didn't until I became a utility locator.
marzolan
When it comes to guaranteed impact, I agree. The counter though is that the impact of the pipe should a worst case scenario occur is huge.
marzolan
Similar to more people dying of car accidents but more attention being paid to every little detail of airline safety. An individual car...
marzolan
...kills a few. Plane crashes can kill hundreds in one incident.
banoot
From what I’ve read they want to use the pipes for oil sand which is more acidic and will create leaks in the pipes
NateKindaGreat
I get that, but the critical idea is that the shale oil needs to *stay in the ground*. If KXL came online, that becomes harder to achieve.
telecomteardown
I agree. I was merely saying as I understand it the consensus is pipes are more ecog friendly. However we shouldn't be investing in either.
Dakksys
It's more environmentally friendly only if there isn't an accident. Oil companies don't have accidents do they?
leroy666
If there can be, there will be.
Dakksys
Name ONE time an oil company fucked up. This week.
leroy666
Do all their fuck ups become news items?
Dakksys
No. Things that happen frequently aren't newsworthy. Only their Major fuck ups make the news. Like killing half the life in the gulf.
toonsniped
When I was doing research into it it was incredibly frustrating to get accurate information from oil companies about pipeline leak/spill.
olafthrig
mindstorm8191
Nobody wants to admit to their mistakes
ali4z
Big red flag right there
pedrotbear
Except for the 2687 mile long pipe will have 35 people employed to watch it. That's 240ish miles of pipe per person assuming 3x8 hour shifts
CakeShapedPie
Leaks are detected by computers these days.
pedrotbear
Does your computer work flawlessly all day? SCADA can't catch everything. Look up the massive amount of oil that gets spilled from pipelines
fearlessfloyd
I worked in recovering LUSTs (Leaking Underground Storage Tanks) for years. One thing I learned is that if you bury a pipe it will leak.
IThinkYouGotAFineBrainJack
Watched porn for years. Can confirm.
BoomGoesTheThermonuclearDevice
I trust the expertise of anyone who works in LUST when it comes to the topic of laying pipe.
AceMonk
Hehe
DharmaAnitchIhave
Oh, what the fuck. That took me an embarrassing amount of time. G'job. Am amused.
JakSandrow
Up you goooo
ImOPsMom
Just like their pipe
CriticalCritic
BoomGoesTheThermonuclearDevice
iambrose
telecomteardown
For sure, I was just stating that the environmental impact seems to be greater with conventional transportation.
DigYourselfBaby
That's like saying constructing a housing development on farmland is more environmentally friendly than old houses.
nikkinikorasu
Is it greater, though? More consistent, but I'd be inclined to believe a single leak could easily outweigh the consistency of regular transi
sirleoiii
The oil companies say it is, and we have no reason to distrust them about it, do we?
JakSandrow
Regular transit is currently being improved - the issue is when overworked truck drivers have to pull horrendous shifts and overlook details
Sage042000
They don't. By law, they can't drive more than, (iirc), 11 hours a day. You can't do 2 shifts back to back over midnight either cuz they
CakeShapedPie
A leak that is noticed and repaired is less harmful than a truck or rail car getting tipped in a crash which is more common
BrokeMyFunnyBone
Got a source for truck/rail car spills vs pipe leaks?
VulcanP90
leaks don't get noticed until 50,000 gallons are already spilled.
CakeShapedPie
That said, there often isn't any oversight and leaks are considered acceptable losses and ignored