TheDefective
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Einbrecher
#3 Not my take, but working class includes anyone who gets paid for their time. That means doctors, dentists, and lawyers same as it means line cooks, retail workers, and delivery drivers. The salary of most lawyers is closer to your typical retail worker than it is the folks who make all their money in the market, and yet the story we're sold is the inverse of that.
DrewK98
#1 Boomers were at 25% of the total around 1996, when they were from 30-50 years old.
Gen X was at 25% around 2020, when we were 40-55 years old.
somerando76879
Not just robbery, its class traitors too. Whole GOP is full of dumbasses pillorying themselves and us for billionaires, all in the name of girls athletics. Its such a fucking stupid timeline.
meheezen
#3 i am in this picture and i don’t like it
JustSeinfeldQuotes
Doesn't it stand to reason that people who just got into the labor market have less wealth than people who have worked all their lives?
MrRSJ
All of this was by design. :(
BeardicPerformance
#1 I feel like this would be more valuable if it was plotted against average age of people in the generation instead of year.
fractalsphere
Trickle down was always a failure. It should have been a waterfall from the start, never a trickle.
UnaccomplishedWatcherImNotaBot
#5 freaking Max Weber, man...
GiantFlyingLabia
#8 these numbers are made up although the trend holds true.
Toqom
#5 I've always said reparations are needed and when folk say who is to pay for it I say, the rich families that made generational wealth off of slavery. We know who they are, take their money away and put it into social programs those same, now poor families, can use as they look for work like those they abused. No one needs a billion dollars, so anyone who made money recently can lose everything over 1 billion and tax the rest like a normal person would. We don't need he gambling stock market.
Carl99
And as i like to point out, you could take the theoretical wealth of the 10 richest people and it would cover stuff for only a few years. Leave the US and it gets way worse because the US top 10 is ridiculously over inflated compared to everyone else.
elucca
But it's not a pile of money that you take from and use to pay for things. It's the (perceived) value of companies that make stuff and generate profit that goes to the owners. Those companies and the profit do not actually need to be owned by them.
pr3viso
I was broke until I was past my 50s. I haven't received any inheritance. And yes, my children have had obstacles which I've tried to help with along the way. For now my stand is not to become a burden on them going forward, they have enough problems
colderfish
I do well ONLY because I had parents to help for college, decent healthcare, and married a woman who owned a house. I was able to save, raise kids, volunteer, take in foster kids, buy a vacation house, start a small business.... But NONE of that would be possible without the help I got. Smart, hard working, creative, sure. But you need more if you are to succeed in America.
wattsdass
“Capitalism has brought about a system that takes necessities from the masses to give luxuries to the classes.”
-MLK
Unclescam
That's why they killed him. He was shifting more towards the class war.
LadyTerminator
Same reason they killed Frank Little.
hsalonen3000
Gen X here, we only get more wealth because
a) we soon own our house, which was possible at the time
b) we are about to inherit the boomer fortune
Unfortunate500
Say it with me now: Labor is not capital.
If all you have to offer is labor, you are not a capitalist. You are fuel for capitalist's machinery.
Cookiesnm1lk
but. but. but. I'M going to be a quadrillionaire some day. and then i'll show you all! /s
sadurdaynight
Labor is a supply and demand problem for capitalists. The fact labor can make more labor cheaply (breeding, don't need special training) means capitalists want labor over-breeding and over-populated. That why the over-supply of labor drives down labor's wage negotiation power. They want people fighting each other for jobs that pay peanuts. Can't do that when labor controls it's re-population rate. So pass laws against population control methods ro keep labor cranking out the kids
ArchMagos
This is why even someone that is well off comparatively should still be considered working class and have class solidarity with their peers. As you said, if you are selling your time and expertise for your wealth, then you are not part of the owner class, and should not view yourself as part of that group.
Worbah
That's the thing; there is no such thing as a middle class. Only the working class and the owning class. Everyone that doesn't get ("earn" has, well, unearned connotations) their livelyhood from owning property is working class.
doctorId
I heard it described once that the difference between being well-off and being wealthy is whether you have to work for your money or you can make your money work for you. Even if you get paid a lot, if you're still having to put in regular effort for the income to keep flowing you're not wealthy. Once you have enough that the money machine self-perpetuates even without your input, then you're wealthy. Which is why billionaires who claim to work long hours are full of shit.
Isorikk
Unless your wealth is measured in at least 8 figures, making more really just means paying more taxes. But at least you'll get to cry about it in a shiny car.
fractalsphere
#1 Silent generation is largely dying off (the youngest ones are hitting mid-80's this year) but boomers will hoard the lions share of that for years unfortunately.
cullingg
Boomers are dying but a lot of their wealth is being transferred from one partner to the other as one of them dies.
freshthrowaway1138
Except they aren't dying at the same rate. Boomers are anywhere from 62-80, Silent Gens are 80+. Do you really not see how and why the death rate is much higher for the Silent than the Boomers?
fluxfusion3
Total twisted logic.
halfabubbleoff
There is accuracy with the statement that the trading of labor for wages is an economic exchange that all economists accept as true.
Every endeavor requires plant, property, equipment, and labor. The only one of that equation that can walk away or cannot be (legally) owned is labor. This is also accepted by all economists.
So how is the logic twisted?
BenjyX55
Ok, Elon (this is a slur).
TheDefective
IrvingSchwinglepuck
TheDefective
TheDefective
CALAMOSCOPYJANE
How so? Let's hear your version of reality.
CALAMOSCOPYJANE
Dumbo me, trying to start a conversation with a bot.
ItsJustBluskyandImgrNow
US Tech & Retail Billionaires:
WhatAmL
And not a Boomer among them. Still, it's the Boomers fault for choosing to be born when they did.
KillingTlme
Protesting will not fix this problem either.
TheDefective
zFUBARz
Huh, Dell is still up there?
BlindGardener
False, every CEO I have met was unskilled labor working an unskilled job, and working at that job so few hours and so few days that they can go golfing at will, or work multiple CEO positions ‘simultanously’
SomeDetroitGuy
Weird. I've met a lot of CEOs and literally none of them are like that. They're all wildly overpaid and overcompensated for what they do but none of them worked less than 10 hours a day and frequently worked weekends, too.
DeanSledgehammer
Same, but I haven't met CEOs of mega conglomerates which is what people seem to connect with the title. CEOs of smaller companies work their ass off in my experience.
BlindGardener
You ever met Jeffrey J. Jones II? The light of burning companies seems to follow the man to his new positions. The shit he did to the one I work for was awful, and I hear the shit he did to Target was too.
He switched us away from in-house proprietary software that worked perfectly for our needs to generic out-of-house software that doesn’t work, and then quit immediately after making the switch so that the next CEO would have to deal with it.
BlindGardener
Just so people understand how broken the new software is: We’re struggling to take payments from clients. If a Business can’t take payments, it’s not a Business.
TheDefective
https://en.wikipedia.org/wipitalist">https://en.wikipedia.o">ki/Vultu">pitalist">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulture_capitalist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_stripping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll
foolycharged
As low as the bar is, there is still some skill required to be a CEO. Just look at stuff like blockbuster for example. The rich people pick the wrong friend to put in the cushy money spot and the whole business goes belly up and tons of people lose their jobs.
foolycharged
That said, once that incredibly low bar gets cleared there isn't a whole lot of labor involved and all the idiots are mostly interchangeable. The great man myth is just an excuse for the people at the top to claim all the credit and all the rewards.
BlindGardener
Yeah, but as far as I can tell the average grocery store cashier clears that bar handily.
Tenugui
#1 this chart by itself is not telling very much. Older generations are expected to have more savings and property because they have had more time for accumulation.
Comparing each generation at similar ages is more inciteful to see how we are doing now compared to the past.
https://www.financialaha.com/data-analysis/us-net-worth-by-generation/
TheMomaw
What this says to me is that the value of the dollar is not fixed to the cost of living, and we should instead use other metrics like: How long does it take a person to afford a home, how many people got a college degree without going into debt, and what is the savings rate.
Tenugui
Now that is a great take! One statistic on it's own is rarely enough to give a robust picture of the situation.
barbarian818
And the original graph says nothing about why the growth or loss. The Silent Generation lost value because they died off and boomers inherited. Most boomers are still with us, so succeeding generations haven't inherited much so far.
StillNotYouTube
Thanks for doing this. I was thinking that these lines kind of match if we shift for age instead of year.
nefroye
This. (here's a more complete version showing the legend):
pixelsnader
Absolute legend.
StrangerRangerDanger
does this account for inflation?
ButImNoExpert
It says it's in 2022 dollars, so yes.
nefroye
(and I think you mean insightful not inciteful. The one in #1 is inciteful.)
Tenugui
You're correct, but on the other hand, OP is certainly triggered. https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1cDIyOHIyOWRqcGNuM21ueHFxdWcycmZneng4NjV1MHd0b3F0NHh0NCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/3ohfFhG5VDtDTzQv2o/200w.webp
kitnnicole9
We should also remove the 10 ultra wealthy people. Their wealth skews their group too much
gkrum6847
It's the median, not the arithmetic average, so the small number of ultra wealthy won't skew it much at all. My memory is that if you look at the lowest quartile (so, the number where 25% of households are below it rather than 50%) it's a bit of a dismal picture for that group, but I could be wrong.
riverpubby
I dont know a single gen z that started out life anywhere near 50k, not even the ones that had jobs
nefroye
That data point is "under 35" - not starting life. I would hope that most people start life (in this case their careers) before 35.
My take is the reason it's so high is because the stock market has boomed the last few years. Notice that *every* generation has boomed the last 10 years; exception being the silent generation, that are 100% retired, with many getting into expensive end-of-life care. (I know from family experience)
If you added 10 years on the left you'd see Gen Z at zero.
gkrum6847
Yeah, that's the most surprising data point on the graph to me. I think a big part of it is a labeling issue. The oldest Gen Zers are 29 right now, so that would include 5 years of Millenials at least, if it's including all people under 35 at the moment. This graph kind of struggles with the fact that generations have generally been defined as 15-year ranges since after the Baby Boomers.
Spiderbubble
This is adjusted for inflation, and the data appears to be in the millennials’ favor. But why then can they not afford housing? Because the housing supply is still firmly in the Boomers’ possession, not to mention the real estate owning companies….
FlippedOut
Adjusted for inflation, but not for spending power. $5000 buys a house in 1960 adjusted for inflation $5000 is $200,000 now, doesn't mean you can buy a house for that much. (These are not accurate figures just an example)
Carl99
I can't speak for the US but a few years ago, (23 or 24 i think), i dug into cost to build vs sale value of housing her ein the UK and the value of new houses being built is comparable to the sale price, there was like a 10% of total cost profit margin on average.
It was looking at private home construction so large construction companies may be able to save a little, but i doubt it would be by very much. Housing is just expensive to build.
Carl99
The real issue is the changing population demographics, its hitting businesses and governments hard both.
Tenugui
Good point, and my chart shows the boomers are ahead of the past generation in their twilight years. Strangely, OP also posted a graph showing boomer real estate wealth % declining during a period of extreme increase in home values...
But my big issue is that OP's opening graph is deeply flawed for the point they are trying to make, even if their stance is correct.
IStoleALoafOfBread
They included another comment that shows the legends. It says it's been adjusted to dollar amount in 2022. So, I'm assuming it is adjusted for inflation. If that is accurate, then the answer to the housing question is that while we have more money, the cost of housing has far outpaced the increase in wealth (because of what you said about boomer's and real estate conglomerates controlling the supply)
Spiderbubble
Yes. I did say it’s adjusted for inflation. Because I clicked the link which has that info.
Anyway it’s 2022 numbers and inflation has risen a ton since then. So take that with a grain.
Carl99
Part of it will be the preponderance of single households and the increased number of women working. Actual individual worker income will have dropped because a greater percentage of each age group IS working instead of staying home. So the same total income is split across more people. Any of those living in single household are supporting themselves on less money.
RedPipe
Not sure why this is downvoted. I don't have the competency to properly verify this, but I'm sure this has to be at least be taken into account when showing the data.
Carl99
Someone seems to have gone on a downvote spree on all my comment sin this thread, guessing i annoyed someone and they're being petty.
fastjeff
I’m genx and all I know I’m getting old with no savings my bills are through the roof and young people act like I’m rich af. I’m poor and tired af and my health isnt once what it once was and nobody cares, they just want me to keep being the boss and finding money for staff.
Pulsahr
Don't forget that every generation after you consider you are the bad guy that helped destroy the world. Source: I'm GenX (born in 1977).
fastjeff
Do you feel guilty about taking a minute to look at imgur when you could have been working too?
DeanSledgehammer
I thought everyone blames boomers?
HandoB4Javert
Why cut off the graph legend?
nefroye
IntegratedTraumaEarnedSecure
I think we could figure out that millennial aren't in there 50s and Gen z isn't 40
HandoB4Javert
And what did the Romans mean by 'water' when mixing concrete?
https://science.howstuffworks.com/why-ancient-roman-concrete-stronger-than-modern.htm
Tenugui
The source website save function was stupid and didn't include the legend. It's better to look at the website anyway, because there are nuances in the dataset not easily captured in the graph.
TheDefective
Nice try. But despite being only 20% of the population they own over half the stuff, and are heavily projected to be keeping their money for vacations and end of life care as opposed to inheritance. Filthy ass MINE MINE MINE GRAB GRAB GRAB generation.
trasneoir
I think you're missing the point that the median graph is making: It's not about the baby boomers as a group, it's about the 0.1% - most of whom are baby boomers.
No war but class war.
Carl99
Facts are facts, you don;t get to dismiss them with a simple "nice try". Either refute the facts or shut up.
Tenugui
Sure, some are. But the aggregate doesn't work that way. As the old generation dies off, wealth is transferred to their children, and suddenly the oldest generation is again the most wealthy.
Your graph is very interesting as well, because it shows boomer real estate mostly holding steady and the wealth of the Silent Gen die-off going proportionally Gen X and Millenials, seemingly by-passing the boomers.
I think that little peak in 2010 is because boomers are dying earlier than their parents.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
Wealth is transferred to children? In what fantasy life are you living? They are bleeding the elderly dry. My great grandmother is in hospice after losing everything to medical bills and such. Family home gone, no money, nada. Its being transferred into the rich's pockets AGAIN.
zFUBARz
Yeah, with the rise of things like reverse mortgages I imagine that fermented wealth is going to kids less and less often.
TheDefective
It's the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. Fucking guesswork bullshit.
Tenugui
Your graph is by percentage. A change in the absolute value due to the crash doesn't change percentages when the whole market goes down.
The trend in boomer real estate wealth since 2010 has been downward, ever since they started reaching retirement age.
TheDefective
Aww, cute that you believe that.
nefroye
Sorry but longing for a big inheritance is more what I would consider a MINE MINE MINE position, vs actually wanting to use your life savings for yourself.
TheDefective
Spoken like a boomer that voted away social programs they themselves relied on to get started.
nefroye
I'm not a boomer. I just have a decent knowledge of how economics works.
And I have not "voted away" any social program. You apparently enjoy just making up stuff.
TheDefective
Oh so you just carry their water? so much for your vaunted understanding of economics lol. If this isn't self interst it's even more pathetic, you get that right toady? lickspittle?
kerbalspace2
I’m a boomer. I’ve supported liberal causes my entire life. I have NEVER voted for a republican. Painting us all as greedy right wing conservatives is ageism and bigotry. You’re judging an entire generation based on the actions of the selfish assholes that all generations produce. Time to look in the mirror, ASSHOLE!
TheDefective
Look gramp gramp, you shit in your nappy on reagan, and you've done nothing but diarrhea dementia as a generation since. Idc if you WERE one of the good braincells, you still let the fucky wucky continue for far too long. Your generation is being judged by its works. Your stand was insufficient. We were born in more bondage and have to fight harder than you did to even grasp at the edges of fucking HOPE. If you decided I was talking about YOU you must know you did this generation dirty,
TheDefective
https://en.wikipedia.org/beralism">https://en.wikipediawiki/Lib">beralism">https://e.org/wik">wiki/Lib">beralism">https://en.wikipedia.org/wn.wikipe">.org/wik">wiki/Lib">iki/">n.wikipe">.org/wik">beralism">iki/">n.wikipe">.org/wik">wik<">wik">wik">beralism">iki/">n.wikipe">.org/wik">wik</a>i/Lib">beralism">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-left_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_in_the_Democratic_Party_(United_States) https://helpfulprofessor.com/leftist-vs-liberal/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxfXAznD8gk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory
Iullabee
i mean, if you want to do it by age, it also works. looking at #1, the oldest boomer was about 25 in 1990, and boomers had ~21% of the wealth. the oldest genX was 25yo on 2005, and they had about 7~8% of the wealth, a third of what the boomers had at the same age. in 2020, millenials had about 5% of the wealth. less than a quarter of 21%.
Tenugui
That's smarter than OP's graph alone, but there are other factors not accounted for in OP's graph. Like percentage of the population. The boomer cohort is 20 years long, while Gen X and Millennials are each 15. When looking at total 'generational wealth', they have a 33% advantage...maybe. I can't find the data on generational population percentages over time with a few quick searches.
Carl99
Also Millennials were the first generation that got dramatically smaller. The economic consequences of that are collosal.
Tenugui
You're thinking of Gen X. This site has a neat little animation on population cohorts over time (scroll down): https://www.populationpyramids.org/united-states
The 2010 graphic is also instructive. That is the boomer max. By 2025 Millennials are the largest cohort, followed closely by Gen Z.
nefroye
#1 Sorry but that's normal demographics. People tend to save for retirement over the course of their life. Thus older generations are going to have a higher level of wealth, until they die off (e.g. what's happening to the silent generation).
A meaningful graph would show the percentages aligned by age-of-generation, not by date.
TheDefective
Hey, you know when the silent generation does die, the boomers are the ones who will inherit that too right?
nefroye
Yes and when the boomers die, the next generation will inherit that, etc. etc. What's your point?
(though in on lot of cases inheritance skips generations; e.g. much of the silent generations inheritance is going to X, etc.)
TheDefective
https://medium.com/write-a-catalyst/die-with-zero-why-boomers-are-refusing-to-pass-down-84-trillion-6981001b06ec Unfamiliar with the "die with zero" movement eh? Inheritance skips fucking generations!? AHAHAHAHAHAHA ok unserious, got it.
nefroye
You do realize a "movement" is a subset of the population, right? You're wrongly attempting to project that onto the entire population.
TheDefective
yeah, your generation, your responsibility, oops look, boomers not handling their responsibilities while pretending to be the adult in the room AGAIN. Millennials are fucking 40 now, we are sick of your equivocations, and your lies, and your bootstraps shit.
mohavewolfpup
*reverse mortgages and healthcare have entered the chat* millennials aren't getting anything. Try again
Carl99
Those aren't normal everywhere worldwide, the same problems exist, try again.