It just says high crimes and misdemeanors. Meaning, literally anything. There are no rules about something not being an impeachable offense. If Congress has the votes, it can impeach and remove a president out of spite and it's perfectly legal.
And that's perfectly okay imo. Presidents should constantly have to look over their shoulder to keep Congress on-side. Not the other way around. Being president is a privilege that should be considered very conditional.
As bad as he is, his voters are worse. The ones on top do terrible things for incredible personal gain, the voters do it for the joy of inflicting suffering even if they suffer, too.
The 14th amendment says that he's not even eligible to hold office since he tried to illegally subvert a presidential election by replacing the results for seven states and then staging an attack on the capitol when his vice president wouldn't go along with the insurrection attempt on j6.
Also the bit where they've admitted to the fake electors plot in court claiming that he's immune because subverting the election was a presidential act.
and, yes, he was impeached by the Democratic House or Representatives but the Republican dominated Senate (the jury in the set up for impeachments) wouldn't actually find him guilty and remove him from office. Impeachment and conviction of Trump would need a Democratic dominated House and Senate.
I mean... yeah, but the constitution doesn't mention most of those. Just treason, bribery, and "other high crimes and misdemeanors." Not sure how those are defined, it might just be up to congress.
Its an old law taken from 14th century England, and is an all encompassing charge for all sorts of corruption in office, basically everything the op listed. I suppose it removes any wiggle room or technicalities something is not illegal.
That is the point, high crimes and misdemeanor is not a legal term. If the political will exists then a president can be removed for whatever. The point is that the political will does not exist... yet.
Living by the letter of the bible is unacceptable in the modern world because in the modern world many of the things it says are okay are infact outright crimes.
But no one is arguing we should live by the precise letter of the Bible aside from the most batshit insane evangelical preachers.
The same should apply to the constitution. It is no longer a living document, not when most people who read it would fail to understand it. Its lovely poetry but modern America has become a land where 1/
People will fight to the last verb in court to try and bend the document to their chosen cause. In such a world a document needs to be ironclad, using plain legal language, without the poetry or appeals to emotion of the current document. 2
SCOTUS ruled in the summer of 2024 that a pres can kill his political opponents. Lets say by some miracle the Senate can find 51 senators willing to impeach Trump. All he has to do is kill.. lets say... 3 of those 51. You think they will ever be able to find a majority of senators willing to convict the president again? Even after replacing those 3 dead Senators? This whole 'impeachment' crap has become useless the second SCOTUS ruled a president is above the law. That ruling killed the USA.
They did issue that ruling, but I would be really surprised if it ended up working out anywhere near like that.
It's a bad ruling, but there are practical limitations. Trump is only really successful because congress either agrees, or doesn't care. Actually killing senators would piss off congress fast.
Many Senators have already admitted they are absolutely afraid of Donald and his cult. He has been sending his army of goons to intimidate politicians for a decade. Many Senators/House want to get rid of Trump but are simply too afraid to do anything. And that is WITHOUT Trump actually killing someone. I just look at Russia. Politicians wanted to get rid of Putin. Putin killed a few. Everyone fell in line.Lets not fool ourselves into thinking Americans are special and "would do the right thing."
We're not special, but we're also not Russia. When Putin took office it was after centuries of kings and dictators. They never got rid of their kings, just renamed them, and they haven't been a stable country since before the US existed. Russia has a history of violent and deadly revolutions. An ex-KGB agent threatening to bring about another deadly revolution is a credible threat.
The US is not in that situation, and Trump's not near as smart as Putin.
When R congress/senate say they're afraid, all I hear is "we've been working toward this for our entire careers, but don't want to face consequences when it goes tits up." From the top down, they're allergic to consequences.
I think they thought they could control Trump. I think they thought the checks and balances would hold. As far as I heard/read, it was mainly the time between Trumps 1st and 2nd term where he was threatening Republicans behind the screens. And I mean (death) threats to their families. I think some republicans even told the press (anonimously). They were really scared of him when he was out of office and didnt have the 'above the law' powers yet.
He's been impeached twice. Impeachment means nothing if Congress refuses to convict. And they will continue to refuse to convict because most of them are guilty too. The ruling class will never police themselves. I don't know where this fell out of the education system.
Their rationale was "these are the People's representatives". However, it should be noted that -- *originally* -- Senators were selected by states' legislatures...
I think it was the 80s, but the fact that Nixon’s own vice president pardoned him was certainly a litmus test for how big of a cock this government could shove down America’s throat.
Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America, never even went on trial for what he did. Held in prison for a bit, moved to a cushy apartment, then got bail money paid by rich bastards and moved to Canada.
Which is why they need to be voted out in the midterms. Do that and flip the Senate and purge as many of the GOP loyalists as possible and he could be removed.
US democracy died in 2024 when SCOTUS ruled a president is above the law. Biden should have used that ruling to Sealteam Trump, a few key Trump figures like Miller, a few billionaires and certain SCOTUS members and then ask SCOTUS to re-visit the ruling till they make the right choice. But Biden didnt... Biden gave the keys to the country to a literal fascist and Trump is going to be the guy who will use the ruling to stay in power till he dies.
SirRealOfTheShire
He's trying to add some more
theinternetkeepsmealive
"Oh no, you misunderstood. That only applies to democrat presidents. Duh!"
ThailandExpress
DecentUsernameUnavailable
10. ALL OF THE ABOVE.
rmichelsen480
Eenie meenie miney moe.
Targe0
And the GOP are complicit in protecting him from it happening.
B0ardski
there is no statute he has not violated like a 14yr old masseuse.
SubiBryant
I get your point but you might want to give this a once over. https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript
magila
He thought it was a “To Do” list.
DamnGoodBloodyGoodDamnGoodJob
Wow! He's hit the nonecta!
SometimesIjustsit
A president can be impeached for personal gain?
bemurray814
Change impeach to imprison and they'll actually have an effect on this.
AgnostosQue
See, the law applies if a person commits one of these 9, not if they commit all of them
NetProfit
As we know, Trump has done all 9, but you forgot 10: Pedophilia
kimwimgoddess
I dont' think that's listed in the Constitution as impeachable
rossimus
It just says high crimes and misdemeanors. Meaning, literally anything. There are no rules about something not being an impeachable offense. If Congress has the votes, it can impeach and remove a president out of spite and it's perfectly legal.
And that's perfectly okay imo. Presidents should constantly have to look over their shoulder to keep Congress on-side. Not the other way around. Being president is a privilege that should be considered very conditional.
TheInitiated
can
zanaria
The government heard "constitution" and thought people said "constipation"
chatawillybilly
Republicans in Congress want him around. They're making millions from insider tips he slides to them.
gimmeadollar
Because the donors don’t want that, that’s why.
evildadunit
so vote blue this time, or maybe not for a coward or a crook of either party
woozle
I fucking loathe him.
vonHoopla
Not enough to Kirk his Charlies though, and that's all that matters to him :3
clrich912
As bad as he is, his voters are worse. The ones on top do terrible things for incredible personal gain, the voters do it for the joy of inflicting suffering even if they suffer, too.
TheRealArclight
mrbadxampl
some of them more than once... some many times
Bizarkly
All high crimes -- but *don't forget the misdemeanors*...
hellothisispeggy
The 14th amendment says that he's not even eligible to hold office since he tried to illegally subvert a presidential election by replacing the results for seven states and then staging an attack on the capitol when his vice president wouldn't go along with the insurrection attempt on j6.
akafluffy
and he can't even pretend they weren't doing it for him anymore, because he pardoned each and every one of them
hellothisispeggy
Also the bit where they've admitted to the fake electors plot in court claiming that he's immune because subverting the election was a presidential act.
psmith00
so which hasn't he already done?
and, yes, he was impeached by the Democratic House or Representatives but the Republican dominated Senate (the jury in the set up for impeachments) wouldn't actually find him guilty and remove him from office. Impeachment and conviction of Trump would need a Democratic dominated House and Senate.
RElGNMAN
Every Republican
Pyrocious
Maybe not the monkey on the left, speaking evil is at least half their campaign platform.
yeahhedugit
Anatomically correct Republicans.
cearn
No, no, they see it. They're just in on it as well.
zufallszahlen
feels like in this case that needs a 4th monkey that's sitting there jerking off
akafluffy
seeno,hearno,speakno,spankno evil
Treforce
We need a 4th monkey in handcufs / oven mittens (do / touch no evil)
Tacits
I mean... yeah, but the constitution doesn't mention most of those. Just treason, bribery, and "other high crimes and misdemeanors." Not sure how those are defined, it might just be up to congress.
Iamatinylittlebanana
Its an old law taken from 14th century England, and is an all encompassing charge for all sorts of corruption in office, basically everything the op listed. I suppose it removes any wiggle room or technicalities something is not illegal.
RomanValkre
That is the point, high crimes and misdemeanor is not a legal term. If the political will exists then a president can be removed for whatever. The point is that the political will does not exist... yet.
ExaDeuce
Thr term existed in English law.
FrancsTireur
Living by the letter of the bible is unacceptable in the modern world because in the modern world many of the things it says are okay are infact outright crimes.
But no one is arguing we should live by the precise letter of the Bible aside from the most batshit insane evangelical preachers.
The same should apply to the constitution. It is no longer a living document, not when most people who read it would fail to understand it. Its lovely poetry but modern America has become a land where 1/
FrancsTireur
People will fight to the last verb in court to try and bend the document to their chosen cause. In such a world a document needs to be ironclad, using plain legal language, without the poetry or appeals to emotion of the current document. 2
ChopOnBrother2021
Yeah. Very few people know (or care) what the constitution actually says even though it’s an incredibly short document.
But they sure have a lot of really poor opinions on it.
GrandmasterSpank
SCOTUS ruled in the summer of 2024 that a pres can kill his political opponents. Lets say by some miracle the Senate can find 51 senators willing to impeach Trump. All he has to do is kill.. lets say... 3 of those 51. You think they will ever be able to find a majority of senators willing to convict the president again? Even after replacing those 3 dead Senators? This whole 'impeachment' crap has become useless the second SCOTUS ruled a president is above the law. That ruling killed the USA.
HeresYourSauce
They did issue that ruling, but I would be really surprised if it ended up working out anywhere near like that.
It's a bad ruling, but there are practical limitations. Trump is only really successful because congress either agrees, or doesn't care. Actually killing senators would piss off congress fast.
GrandmasterSpank
Many Senators have already admitted they are absolutely afraid of Donald and his cult. He has been sending his army of goons to intimidate politicians for a decade. Many Senators/House want to get rid of Trump but are simply too afraid to do anything. And that is WITHOUT Trump actually killing someone. I just look at Russia. Politicians wanted to get rid of Putin. Putin killed a few. Everyone fell in line.Lets not fool ourselves into thinking Americans are special and "would do the right thing."
HeresYourSauce
We're not special, but we're also not Russia. When Putin took office it was after centuries of kings and dictators. They never got rid of their kings, just renamed them, and they haven't been a stable country since before the US existed. Russia has a history of violent and deadly revolutions. An ex-KGB agent threatening to bring about another deadly revolution is a credible threat.
The US is not in that situation, and Trump's not near as smart as Putin.
GrandmasterSpank
I see Trump as Americas version of 'Boris Yeltsin'. I think the guy after Trump will be America's version of 'Vladimir Putin'....
DangerBaer
When R congress/senate say they're afraid, all I hear is "we've been working toward this for our entire careers, but don't want to face consequences when it goes tits up."
From the top down, they're allergic to consequences.
GrandmasterSpank
I think they thought they could control Trump. I think they thought the checks and balances would hold. As far as I heard/read, it was mainly the time between Trumps 1st and 2nd term where he was threatening Republicans behind the screens. And I mean (death) threats to their families. I think some republicans even told the press (anonimously). They were really scared of him when he was out of office and didnt have the 'above the law' powers yet.
gtotherizzle
He's been impeached twice. Impeachment means nothing if Congress refuses to convict. And they will continue to refuse to convict because most of them are guilty too. The ruling class will never police themselves. I don't know where this fell out of the education system.
deadman320
If you're confused where shit went wrong, it's almost always regan
Kazpur81S
The Senate convicts….therein lies the problem
BrokenAnimal
And now you understand the French revolution.
At a certain point, that is all you have left.
LoudBirb
Congress is both the House and the Senate. The House impeaches, then the Senate convicts.
The problem is that impeachment requires only a simple majority (51%), while conviction requires a supermajority (66%).
Every single Democrat in the Senate voted to convict every time, but we (the voters) didn't give them a supermajority, so it didn't matter.
harthram
Having the Senate run the trials instead of the courts was a mistake by the framers
BeardicPerformance
Because the Supreme Court is so much better right now?
Bizarkly
Their rationale was "these are the People's representatives". However, it should be noted that -- *originally* -- Senators were selected by states' legislatures...
hellsgunslinger
Probably around the 80s. Bout the same time trickle down economics became popular
TheDirtySanchezBros
I think it was the 80s, but the fact that Nixon’s own vice president pardoned him was certainly a litmus test for how big of a cock this government could shove down America’s throat.
Arbitrarynamehere
Around the time Nixon got let off easy?
Daliena06
Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America, never even went on trial for what he did. Held in prison for a bit, moved to a cushy apartment, then got bail money paid by rich bastards and moved to Canada.
Targe0
Which is why they need to be voted out in the midterms.
Do that and flip the Senate and purge as many of the GOP loyalists as possible and he could be removed.
GrandmasterSpank
Trump can kill Senators.
Targe0
And if that happens that's the day the US is dead and it is fully a Dictatorship.
GrandmasterSpank
US democracy died in 2024 when SCOTUS ruled a president is above the law. Biden should have used that ruling to Sealteam Trump, a few key Trump figures like Miller, a few billionaires and certain SCOTUS members and then ask SCOTUS to re-visit the ruling till they make the right choice. But Biden didnt... Biden gave the keys to the country to a literal fascist and Trump is going to be the guy who will use the ruling to stay in power till he dies.
tachyx
Americans don't care. After the mid-terms they'll just wait for the 2028 election. Fuck them. All Americans are Nazis now.
MiserCrass
Yeah, yeah we all wish Biden was a heartless murdering bastard for the 'right cause'. Easy to pin the coulda woulda's on him, innit.