foxyox
118432
3576
476
I went to state school and graduated with a small amount of debt but I'm sick of my friends who are pursuing ridiculous degrees at ridiculously expensive colleges complaining about how much they owe. You always knew how much it would cost.
korvazor
Instead of forgiving my debt, I just want more manageable payment options. Even on IBR I get screwed.
julesypop
Upvoted because I disagree with your opinion. Study what you love, learn how to learn, learn how to think, figure the rest out later
TheWarSloth
I think instead of paying for collage the us should start investing in more trade schools to start getting people jobs rather than degrees.
Bukkhockey
I learned a trade instead and now I own my own business. Not going to college was a spectacular choice. I even have a part time job for fun
unscot
So "life should be easier, but only for things that I enjoy doing."
lysithean
Honest question - do theater degrees hold more power from specific private universities?
GrendelTown
depends a ton on the school, some of the best schools for a specific field in theatre are public... but still have a screening process
GhostlyUnknownOctopod
Yes.
GrendelTown
actually depends on the school, my public undergrad would beat the crap out of SCAD every year at KCACTF in many fields.
Spin0za
Thanks for attacking theatre degrees, however I think you should get back to your sad 9-5 desk job
tinyhighlife
Because I chose an affordable college and pivoted to a more marketable degree. I get to use the money from my 9-5 to retire at 45.
GrendelTown
just be grateful that there a tens of thousands of people with theatre degrees to make your favorite movies and shows
tinyhighlife
I am. I'm just not grateful for the 40k people with theatre degrees that are wanting my taxes to pay their loans.
GrendelTown
I know! it's much more important that our taxes build football stadiums!
tinyhighlife
Well I do like football more than movies...
IsletsofLangerhan
I paid off my student loans after being out of college for a year. Told I was lucky it was "only" $6000. It's not luck, I planned ahead.
spooptheghostie
Mind telling me what exactly you did? Im going to college hopefully next year. I need all the advice I can get
tinyhighlife
Apply for every scholarship and grant you are eligible for. Also, look at the school's scholarship requirements.
Cheomesh
Yeah I finished with about 4k; not paying it off in a year, though.
barqshasbyte
Perhaps degrees for jobs most in need (healthcare, Etc.) could be paid for using tax dollars and pay out of pocket for low demand degrees?
thesixthcourier
There are some countries that effectively have this policy. For example, Ireland has a Leaving Cert you take (similar to SATs, but bigger) >
thesixthcourier
If you want to study medicine at public uni (paid for by the gov) you have to score within a certain range in Chem, Bio, etc on the CL. >
thesixthcourier
Each Uni can only place so many applicants in each program. If you didn't score well enough to be placed in what you'd like to study you >
thesixthcourier
can still find a private Uni that would take you, you'd just have to pay out of pocket. And since the gov funds the Unis, they can (to >
thesixthcourier
some degree) control the number of placements available in each program. Although I'm not sure how much they change them in practice.
ManKindLosesAgain
Do you even know what a theatre degree is? You don't sit in one class all day, there are multiple requirements including history and culture
FurryLime
People like OP don't enjoy learning about culture.
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
You mean like every other major? Engineers have to take history and humanities and writing classes too. Shocking.
GrendelTown
there are MANY theatre degrees; performance, directing, play writing, costume design, scenic design, lighting design, sound design, etc.
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
Karaoke translate as "empty orchestra" from Japanese. Odontophobia is the fear of teeth. The surface area of a standard brick is ~79cm^2.
stringerbellforaday
More students should utilize community colleges for the first two years.
AnalBumCoverFor7000Alex
And live with their parents. Going out of state/private and financing your living expenses is an incredibly stupid thing to do.
PositiveX96
Not every community college offers transferable courses, be smart about WHICH college to choose
Mercenarity
This isn't always the case. Credits are often non-transferable, and if you already know what you want to do you've wasted your time.
tinyhighlife
True, failing grades and niche classes are not.
stringerbellforaday
If you go to state school they automatically transfer
Adthay
*In some states
littlewhitedove
I actually didn't realize how much debt I was gathering in college. Not sure why I was so uninformed but I'm paying my debts and it'll all 1
littlewhitedove
good. I wouldn't have gone to a different college if I had the chance.
whatspaulplayingtoday
What if I have 88k until I finish paying off my loans for a fucking comp sci degree? huh?
tinyhighlife
I hope that 88k is less than a years salary.
whatspaulplayingtoday
Not so far. Workin' on it.
Beleg7
The existence of impractical degrees doesn't justify the structural problems in higher education.
Realkevlarkent
how do u bail them out?
Cgoss82
Maybe everyone should share your major instead of attempting to do what they love and are well suited for, driving up your competition.
AnalBumCoverFor7000Alex
If they're willing to put in the work to earn an engineering degree they're certainly welcome to try. More engineers would be a net positive
gebsmith1
It's nice to do something you love but your job isn't your life. If you require a job you love then that's on you and you can't complain
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
No one is saying that, but if you do go for it, don't bitch about your choice and what it cost you.
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
Boom goes the dynamite.
meesenotmoose
As a person who will be pursuing that theater degree, I completely agree with you, but I also believe arts education to be as important 1/2
meesenotmoose
to the development of culture and humanity as science, though for different reasons. But people should know what they're getting into. 2/2
Cheomesh
Pay out of pocket, don't get a loan.
ze391
I agree, but they should also realize that the arts are a relatively limiting field of study.
meesenotmoose
To some extent, but the same can be said at any degree on a higher level. An MFA is just as limiting (due to narrow focus) as a PhD. 1/2
meesenotmoose
The only difference is the subject matter. 2/2
Cheomesh
*looks over at the environment he works in* Yeahnah.
TooBadThisWontMakeMeFamous
Buddy, as someone with a theater degree I promise you there is no shortage of jobs.
meesenotmoose
I had my first acting job a week after graduating high school. It's really just a matter of working hard to get work and not expecting 1/2
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
You'd be amazed (or maybe not) by the number of people who dont know you actually have to go out and LOOK for those jobs.
meesenotmoose
Sadly, I know a fair few people who don't really know that. But hopefully reality will be the best teacher.
meesenotmoose
jobs to just come to you. 2/2
MrPlinkett
I know, who needs history, philosophy, political science, the classics... Just get an engineering degree and make money!
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
Apparently you didn't study the classics or history as hard as you think. False Dichotomy much?
PeaceWalker47
In what world can't I do both? I'm a Finance Student and an amateur historian for Islamic, Classical, and 20th Century History.
PositiveX96
True, I know people doing Biology degree with a minor in English literature. And engineers with a degree in Arabic literature.
PeaceWalker47
Exactly! Like it's not like you can't have a genuinely useful degree and be unable to pursue your passion
Bugofbelgium
Amateur anything can mean anything.
thesixthcourier
Yeah, but most people who study Fine Arts are actually amateurs too, since they're not really getting paid to do their interpretive dance...
PeaceWalker47
I'm able to read and appreciate history to the extent I want and still able to make some serious money. Make of that what you will.
NowDoThatVoodooThatYouDo
wink wink
Bugofbelgium
wink wink wink
PeaceWalker47
Maybe, but it means that your idea of passion vs. career is bullshit.
Bugofbelgium
... I'm not the original commentor.
PeaceWalker47
Oh, my bad. I honestly don't even read the usernames nine out of ten times.
0x5F3759DF
I recognize sarcasm, but there's a serious point in that if you want to study those things that don't make money, you need to be aware.
MrPlinkett
Making money from what you study and the cost of studying it are two different things.
0x5F3759DF
Yes? So maybe try not to take on debt you know you'll never be able to pay back?
MrPlinkett
Or maybe recognize there are more important things in life than money and finances? Perhaps following ones passions/interests?
thesixthcourier
The point is that its not ok to spend someone else's money on your passions. If you want to follow a passion is should be funded by >
0x5F3759DF
That's fine, but also know that if you do that, most people will have no interest in paying for you, partially because they have to worry.
PeaceWalker47
Passion is all well and good, but passion doesn't put food on the table. History is not a career, it's a hobby.
dreadlordkaplan
2 years community college, 2 years state school, part-time job, debt can be minimized to a level worth your degree.
gebsmith1
You don't know my life. I pay $75k/year to go to a top philosophy school. I have 12 hours of class a week. I don't have time for a job!
LordLafe
Thank you for saying it.
unefemmeingenieur
Not always an option. My first year in undergrad, I was taking 2 calc-based physics classes, calc 3 and diff eq and 300-level Spanish (1/?)
unefemmeingenieur
None of which is really a stretch if you take some AP classes and test well on the foreign language entrance exams. None of that (2/?)
tinyhighlife
If you are in that situation and not on a scholarship, you didn't look at all your options.
unefemmeingenieur
I was on scholarship, ~20k a year, but I went to an out-of-state school to be near my terminally ill grandparents so it was still 25k a year
tinyhighlife
Sweet Jesus. My school only cost around 12k a year. Out of state was like 18k.
unefemmeingenieur
Would have been available at a community college (3\end)
BasisPoints
Calc through ODEs is usually available in most CCs... and the only school I went to where Physics DIDN'T use Calc was Carnegie Mellon
unefemmeingenieur
The CCs near me must be unusually shitty then. Not much of a surprise...education in general isn't much of a priority here
xoverthirtyx
The problem is the predatory loan system not people's majors.
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
EH... little of column A, little of column B.
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
Nope, its people who take majors in 'gender studies' and expect to walk into a 6 figure job out of college. Useless degrees are useless.
xoverthirtyx
Nope. The predatory loan system is the same no matter what you major in. Gender studies majors' debt isn't the reason student debts an issue
AnalBumCoverFor7000Alex
You fail to take into consideration how fast you can then pay it off. Some degrees are more marketable than others and will pay off faster.
xoverthirtyx
How fast you can pay off a loan set up to overcharge you...you have it backwards
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
It is not mine, nor the bank's, 'job' to figure this out. Its up tot eh person taking out the loan. Price of being stupid.
xoverthirtyx
All banks are doing this, it's predatory SYSTEM. Schools are doing it too so many have no choice if they want an education.
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
Taking a loan out for a degree that no one will employ you with is just stupid. Banks job is to lend you money, not get you a job
xoverthirtyx
Keep talking about a particular major's employability and not the predatory terms of the loan. The banks terms have nothing to do w majors
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
What is wrong with you? There is absolutely no right to go to college. If you want to go then you save up the money before applying. 1/2
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
2/2 At no time in the past has society promised you that you are entitled.. THIS is one of the reasons people joke about Millenials.
Bigmanstomp
you think people are expecting to walk into 6 figure jobs? What planet do you live on? Have you ever met a college student?
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
I've been one for 12 years, paid off 44K in loans, worked a fulltime job, fulltime student to get my degrees. Yeah.. I've met them.
jocloud31
And no one would try to get a useless degree like that unless funding were provided to them. Blame still can't be fully on the student.
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
That absolutely makes no sense. Just because you want to do something, take out a loan, you fail .....and its the loan company's fault?
xoverthirtyx
Interest rates aren't based on majors/areas of study. The loans are causing the debt not the money/lack of money in their chosen field.
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
But you DON"T have to take out the loan! Is the rate too high, go elsewhere. Can't afford college? Then do trade school or learn alone.
DudePlayinADudeDisguisedAsAnotherDude
You're a fool.
katsrulz
This.
SirMaximusPowers
Unfortunately, many people still do not understand what a predatory loan actually is. They think it is stupid kids making mistakes.
Goomba42
I'm finishing up my PhD and I still don't believe everyone needs a college education. Especially if they got a good high school education
0x5F3759DF
Me too! I also get to tutor the students that weren't left behind, so I have no debt.
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
A good high school education That's becoming far scarcer...
itisbuttstuff
Art degrees aren't ridiculous. Art is part of what makes humanity amazing.
Relicanth
You're right, the problem is getting 80K debt doing it. Look for a school that costs <20K/year to do it, or dbl major in something with jobs
rocketbear30
I wish I could agree with you because it should be that simple. But where one goes to school can affect their possibilities for finding work
rocketbear30
(specifically talking about theater and film. If you go to certain schools, you connect with certain people)
KeeleonOhms
And just like law degrees, why is it my job to pay for it?
0x5F3759DF
Art _degrees_ are ridiculous.
otherotherbarry
So you really need to go to a 4 year college and amass bid debts to get an Art degree? Art is nice, but be smart about it.
rossimus
Think of it as a low-stakes laboratory in which you can test ideas, make mistakes, and grow in a positive environment.
realwomenfightnaked
I think OP should change it to the actual waste of space degrees like gender studies
foxyox
I agree, but you can't "follow your dreams" and then complain because you followed them in a Ferrari instead of a Honda.
midnitestate
I love photography and would like to get into but I know the most I could do is maybe some online and professional stuff for events
rossimus
You can fail at business too, but no one chides business majors. At the end of the day, those who work the hardest succeed the most.
Cheomesh
So is Science and Engineering, and it's more practical use too.
Zalomy
Most people entering stem can't hack it. Just because one is more practical doesn't mean that the other isn't viable.
AshevilleConnoisseur
What? Sure it does. If you have a bunch of dummies over saturating a easy career field/degree it isn't add viable as a harder stem field
AshevilleConnoisseur
Sigh.....as***
Zalomy
*an easy
HillaryClintonsEyes
People have different interests. Not everyone enjoys science and engineering.
Mercenarity
Without humanities, who would you be science and engineering for? The Borg?
Cheomesh
Progress? Improving our understanding of the world? Solving real problems like food and drinking water?Going into space?
PositiveX96
So if I am not an engineer, I am automatically a humanities major? Your statement doesn't make sense
LizardEnterprises
Yup. But the government is responsible for the public good, not the public making-humanity-amazing.
annabelle17
And you would argue that art is not responsible for public good?
LizardEnterprises
2/2 half-century than art majors have. As proof, I offer up this site. Also reddit, youtube, deviantart, soundcloud, etc etc.
LizardEnterprises
1/2 I would argue that we have finite resources, and Computer Science majors have done far more to make art available in the last
tuffrabit
Since when does one need a mountain of debt for a 4 year piece of paper to art well or at all?
PoliticallyIncorrectAndSoIsYourMom
Bingo! How many of the greats even went to college? The myth of college as a sure fire way to success is dead.
Rawcal
Since the student loan became the standard and the college costs rose high above what one can earn while studying, how about?
tuffrabit
That has nothing to do with what I said.
elementofdisaster
Thank you. I've spent 8 years studying theatre with only ~$10,000 debt. I want to make good fucking art and couldn't without my experience.
ApocalypticSpaceCowboy
People are cunts when it comes to talking about any degrees that society says don't make money. Your diploma is what you make of it.
PeaceWalker47
Yeah but art doesn't build bridges or cure diseases.
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
Art degrees aren't ridiculous. But scholarships exist for a reason. Isn't 80k is a bad invstmnt in an art degree when u could do it for 20?
cleveranduniqueusername
That's why I opted to not go to college. Now I DRIVE the school bus.
Ewanator
Burgerdan2Tall
You're a hero to us all!
capnsebastian
Youre employed w/o debt? you'll be in a fiscally favorable position to do a cert or a degree if you ever really wanted.
kittyclawz
Hey, weekends, holidays, and summers off, plus you can always find more work elsewhere with a CDL if you want. It's a sweet deal.
two2two2
You have a great view of the city(sometimes) and drive a 400k vehicle!
williammurderfayce
the wheels on the bus go round and round all through the town. the driver on the bus goes "SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!" all through the town
IAmTheBadW01f
I once wondered how many times I could sing through 99 bottles of beer on the wall during my bus ride. 3 1/2.
SmellOfMonkey
Hey Otto
margaretolson
That's my boyfriend's name and this comment through me for a loop for a second
daveisamonster
I hear it's good work
AnthonyParchman
That sentence has a different meaning depending on how you emphasize each word.
Mnwall28
Otto!
TimmyDans
Hail to the bus driver bus driver bus driver hail to the bus driver bus driver man.
pizzabortionist
He steps on the clutch and the toilet goes flush. Hail to the bus driver, bus driver man.
shootyourgooCthulhu
Is it a magic school bus?
cleveranduniqueusername
Only around 4:30 in the afternoon
Seabreezey
Who closes the bus door once the bus driver gets off?
kittyclawz
Door is kept closed while driving with an air pressure system. Once bus is off you just push/pull it open.
NewUserNamesAreHard
My boyfriend is a bus driver, I asked him this and he looked at me like I was dumb, so still don't know :/
odraencoded
How much do you earn?
kittyclawz
It's usually around $15-$20 an hour depending on experience and the district you work for.
Thejunkfoodkid
Ie about $20-30,000. Mom was an assistant on buses for years for special ed $17 an hour w/benefits but said they were treated her like crap
kittyclawz
Damn... I do the same thing (aide) and only get like $11 an hour. We an opt into benefits but it cuts into our pay which sucks for aides. >
kittyclawz
> The drivers get paid significantly more.
Thejunkfoodkid
She worked there for 15 years so she worked her way up
IdiotMcNoobtard
Which is perfectly fine. Someone has to do it, and we can't all be brain surgeon lawyers anyway
fencerman
Except that unless you get a degree your salary is never going to be enough to support a family.
Gigi24
There is a Physician/ Surgeon/ (personal injury) Lawyer in St Louis, named Brad Bradshaw. Who names their child that?!
kittyclawz
The same kind of people that named their kid David McDavid (owner/manager of a car dealership in my local metroplex)
CaptainMyCaptain
She loves going to bars and I make nearly twice what she does.
HeroThatWasNeeded
Remind her of that.
SwaghettiYologneseWithMemeballs
I don't understand the vitriol towards blue collar education anyway. It's pretty much guaranteed to land you a job.
IdiotMcNoobtard
Because everyone operate on the assumption that they can become brain surgeon lawyers, so anything "less" is seen as a failure.
angelfuzz
You could start a law blog tho.
CaptainMyCaptain
So much this! I bartend for a living and my vet student exgf told me I was a loser for it 1/2
MyLuggageAteMyHomework
Screw that guy, bartenders make bank!
InSovietRussiaNudesSendYou
What... a cunt.
IdiotMcNoobtard
I know what you mean. I hate it too when people call me a loser because of something I do, when it's CLEARLY because of something else.
TurdsOfWisdom
I'd never call you a loser but you have to work nights and weekends and don't get benefits.
Riandaras
Not always true about benefits. I have full benefits as a server. Working most holidays and weekends does stuck though.
CaptainMyCaptain
I work fine dining. Benefits and I only work until 11. 12 at the latest.
TurdsOfWisdom
That's not bad. There are just too many things like concerts or events I like going to on weekends. I also love knowing when I'm off
ilikegirlsthatwearabercrombieandfitch
Nights and weekends aren't a bad thing...
TurdsOfWisdom
Dude I used to do that shit for 10 years and working weekdays is the best thing that's ever happened to me
CaptainMyCaptain
The fact that most people have that time off means it's when I make my most money. I love it.
IdiotMcNoobtard
It is when you have kids, but I loved working eveings when I didn't have them. Still would.
NewUserNamesAreHard
I have a four year degree, my boyfriend drives a school bus. He makes more than me, by a lot plus has no debt and summers off :/
hashtaggobucks
College is a long term investment. I have a degree and know truck drivers the same age who make more than me however in 5 years not so much.
johnvictor
Not to mention the long term health hazards truck drivers face in their position.
WalterMatthau
Well look at you. You're the captain now.
TimmyFazeClanJones
I feel like the "worthless degree" line is a bit over used. I think people are just unwilling to leave thier comfort zones. If your (1/2)
mikeatike
How about this: "There are no worthless degrees... only worthless people." :)
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
Boom goes the dynamite.
TimmyFazeClanJones
Area then simply move. (2/2)
mizmoose
Where do you draw the line? "English degree is waste of time" (People who think "ur" is a word might agree).
ProbablyDrunkAgain
Here you go: http://www.hamiltonproject.org/charts/career_earnings_by_college_major/
0x5F3759DF
Allow discharged loan debt to be collected from the college it was paid to. The problem will solve itself.
ExtremelyHappyGuy
Ur crazy.
GunstarHero
Hmmm, on a different note it might be good in those fields to start discussions early about what they want to do with their degree
GunstarHero
Is it learning for learnings sake or will the degree enable them to do something they want later on.
GunstarHero
The issue is that people graduate and have no idea what to do after. Youve been taking classes for 4 years... you should have a plan
PolishPancakeWithCanadianMapleSyrup
I found this to be a problem with most of my friends. They went to Univ and didn't know what they wanted to do after. Most work retail now.
TrapsAreIllegal
I went, dropped out, went retail, got to mngmt, went back to school. It's not that I didn't like it the first time, I just wanted money...
GunstarHero
Same here, lots of people just think Ill get a degree now and figure things out later. Such a waste.
TheManFromIdaho
Does the average person need an $80k degree (B.A./assosiates) in English from a higher end college? 1/2
TheManFromIdaho
Or should we give them better options in community colleges (maybe even writers guilds?) for much less cost? 2/2
SidneyHarbor
I was going to say something similar. If you want to get a soft degree, use community & state college for it, since it will be way cheaper.
mizmoose
How many people do you know with expensive BAs in English? The ones I know are successful (published) fiction and tech writers.
jcod
If you're going into debt for it you need to look at it like an investment. What job with that degree will make enough money to pay for it?
Treblaine
While it may be hard to draw the line... it's better than no line at all.
TurtBurglar
Exactly. People are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for pursuing an education in something that they're passionate about. That
TurtBurglar
is NOT okay.
stanleyspadowski
What do you say to someone with an english degree? "Yes, I would like fries with that."
mizmoose
Yeah, that's my mom you're talking about (who has other degrees, too). And friends who are successful (published) writers and tech writers.
giftkartoffel
Could also ask when is an 80k degree path justified?
giftkartoffel
Not sure why restating the question got downvoted. Whatever guys
INeverThoughtIdMakeThisAccount
That's only 10k a semester, which is less than most colleges are now, even including in-state perks.
froggyzoomzoomEABOD
My opinion: drawing the line won't work because there will always be lawyers who want to argue that it's discriminatory to say one is (1/?)
froggyzoomzoomEABOD
"Valid" and one is not. If you say "gender studies" does not meet the criteria, someone will turn that into "you are saying women are (2/?)
froggyzoomzoomEABOD
not valid" and it will get turned into an ACLU circus. But what do I know, I only witnessed a hunger strike because "Chicano studies" (3/?)
froggyzoomzoomEABOD
was not offered as a major, and some Latino people wanted it to be. * I may be using Latino/Chicano incorrectly, sorry, I don't know the dif
Bigmanstomp
Well you shoulda gone to a school with latino/chicano studies, then you'd know
notme222
The answer is that WE shouldn't "draw a line". People choose their own and take responsibility. The trick is avoiding bad advice to 18yos.
Craicerjack
The whole post is about drawing a line, you know the whole, College should be cheaper except for theatre degrees
notme222
I know. I don't agree with OP's phrasing, although it's not clear if he was saying "bail out some and not others" or just demagoguing.
fuck123456789
Bailing out everyone from student debt would invigorate the economy
notme222
In a vacuum, sure. But economics doesn't work in a vacuum. Obtaining the money creates a negative effect on the economy. According to the
notme222
3/3 in the process creating a lack of accountability and a number of disincentives.
ExperimentKraj
It's doubtful the HR Clinton administration will downsize the military budget, but man, that would help.
notme222
2/3 IMF in 2013, every 10% increase in debt-to-gdp creates a -0.19% drag on GDP growth. So you're taking money out to put it back in, and
ilovemypiratedog
In Australia our university fees are subsidised by the gov. With degrees for needed jobs like teachers and nurses, the gov pays a larger %.
SidneyHarbor
We subsidize in the US too. The colleges responded by raising tuition by the subsidized loan amounts to keep pace.
Lupine1982
Yeah, but everything is poisonous or venemous so what can you do?
AtLeastWereNotDetroit
Thats really interesting. My worry is people entering field out of economic necessity, not out of a desire to be in STEM for example.
snet328
That is exactly how life is, in almost every facet.
Shistosomiasis
i think that already happens a lot
Treblaine
STEM fields are an economic necessity.
Slagathorisactuallymyname
I agree. It also makes sense to look at why the costs are so high in the first place before just cutting degree programs.
NowLetMeTellYou
I get that this is an unpopular opinion but I just graduated with a degree in theatre and a job as well. I don't need any bailing out.
GrendelTown
about to get my very first loan of 2k, in my last year of theatre grad school. also have job. btw, you go to SETC?
NowLetMeTellYou
Every year!
GrendelTown
Sweet! Grad school means I HAVE to do design competitions, but it is always a blast connecting up with fellow theatre peoples!
GunstarHero
I would even say people should consider not going to college until they know what they want to do. Pushing kids straight from high school...
IATTM
As a late 20s person, I agree with you a little, but not totally. I think people should get an AA as soon as they can, then spend time 1
GunstarHero
A great option - I guess I just wanted to suggest that it isnt right for everyone just to start a 4yr program right away
IATTM
Totally agree!
IATTM
2 figuring out what they want to do before they start on a 4-year degree. Really wish I had gotten that it out of the way.
IATTM
Only 5 credits left until I get my AA! Yay!
SugarCoatedBullshit
Did the same. I bartended to pay for my AS, got a 'real' job,' made way less money, went back to bartending. Not going back to college.
thelonepig
If more parents put some of that tax return money into a 529 plan, that would sure fucking help. Fewer iPads and Disney trips, more college.
simmerbrentley
Or join the military, that's how I paid for my schooling. The world isn't handed to everyone on a silver platter.
DudePlayinADudeDisguisedAsAnotherDude
Hahaha. Firmly middle class, are you?
GunstarHero
And if you didnt save, lots of people start at a cheaper, community college and then move to a major university when theyre ready.
GunstarHero
I guess the planning should start long before your kid is a senior in high school
margaretolson
Amen to this. I'm 27 and plan to pursue post-secondary in the next couple years. Most of my friends switched programs mid-way through
GunstarHero
My sister did 5 different majors. It made no sense then and I think she would like to have done it differently
margaretolson
My best friend switched between 4 different programs...and she is in a totally different field of work than the only program she finished!
GunstarHero
Well at least they got well-rounded educations
Ffleance
That's not uncommon, nor a bad thing, especially if she did a lib arts degree, which teach marketable skills rather than marketable content.
DudePlayinADudeDisguisedAsAnotherDude
But that isn't realistic given time, need for money, and school funding.
GunstarHero
I think I missed something. For clarification are you saying delaying going to college isn't realistic?
DudePlayinADudeDisguisedAsAnotherDude
Yes. Waiting until one "knows what they want to do" isn't realistic without a huge culture and economic shift.
GunstarHero
I cant agree with that. Money is one of the reasons not to jump to college. Without a plan all you're doing is accruing debt
GunstarHero
Im not saying everyone needs to delay college. But the idea that we all should just go as an expectation isnt helping everyone
DudePlayinADudeDisguisedAsAnotherDude
True, one needs a plan. But again, simply waiting until one "knows what they want to do" isn't a very good plan. It's hard to survive on 1/
DudePlayinADudeDisguisedAsAnotherDude
a high school diploma, especially if one already comes from poverty. Also hard to break into a field years after your peers. 2/2
xoverthirtyx
We need educated people in this country. Period. We need banks and schools to stop making this hard to do.
GunstarHero
I agree we should be able to be more educated across the board. Shoving everyone into 4 yr college majors isnt the only way.
GunstarHero
But in general it is getting cost prohibitive
xoverthirtyx
Agreed. ^
rockfireman
I'm 22, and I still haven't gone to college yet. Funny watching all my friends go right after HS and racking up tons of debt while I work.
GunstarHero
to college and expecting everyone to figure out right away what they should do for the rest of their life seems a bit too optimistic
Thejunkfoodkid
Taught a class last year to 9th graders exactly geared towards this issue. Gets them thinking what are they interested in /what's out there
GunstarHero
Brilliant. That first thought shouldnt be during summer advising weeks before you start college. How did it go?
Thejunkfoodkid
It went ok, hard to tell until they get to junior/senior year when it comes back up. Hopefully they'll be better off
AnalBumCoverFor7000Alex
I know I'm in the minority here, but I knew between 8th and 9th grade what degree I was going to pursue.
GunstarHero
Thats great! The issue is that so many people dont have it figured out then and we dont encourage them to think about it.
GunstarHero
We just tell everyone to get grades, take the SAT, do extracurriculars so that you can go to college.
AnalBumCoverFor7000Alex
The best thing is to get internships (even unpaid) in areas you're interested in and see if you like it before committing to a major.
GunstarHero
There is nothing better then actually doing the job to give you an idea
GunstarHero
Especially since high school doesnt really prepare you to think about careers. We have the very basic: I like English or I am good at math
Mercenarity
High school makes cursory motions at it, but it's about as helpful as tits on a fish.
GunstarHero
College should be an option for everyone, but we shouldnt force it down throats that you have to go immediately following high school
Teeheeno
Parents pushed me to go to college right after HS. First day in two weeks, no idea what I'm going to major in. I just want them off my back.
GunstarHero
Scaling back what I said, you have some time in that first year to figure some things out. Just make sure you take the time to figure out
scarywaffles97
That happened to me last year. I blindly chose engineering bc money and I like math. Big mistake.
harpoonyourboyfriend
I dropped out because I lost interest in my major. 5 years later I know what I want to do, but have no time for school anymore due to work
GunstarHero
But I also have a friend who got an art degree. Couldnt find work for a few years. And now discovered a love for forest conservation
GunstarHero
He worked in that field for a while now and went back to school to get a degree in it
GunstarHero
I hadnt considered that when I posted. I know people who want to go back to school but cant find that time
midnitestate
That's what I'm worried about I want to go to school and mite have the time for it but don't know what to do but I do need to get into a
midnitestate
Trade but want to do something I'm good at it I like than throw away money on school
SheBitch
I saved up, took easy courses and got great grades at a community college and got a scholarship for "mature" students at a good school 1/
SheBitch
With a living stipend. After I finished my partner went back for nursing. It was a lean few years but in a month we will finally be swimming
SheBitch
This was after dropping out HARD. I'll be going back again because I can see already how much that piece of paper can change things.
Benegesseritwitch75
I'm encouraging my son to go spend a year or so working, travel, maybe take some online courses but not pursue a degree right away
GunstarHero
Some people I know did Americorp or some other 1 year program. THey got out on their own but without college loans until they were ready
Benegesseritwitch75
I always forget about americorp, I actually worked closely with them on a disaster response, have to talk to him about this option too.
midnitestate
This. A lot of my friends paid quite a lot to get into nursing and almost all of them got out of it or never really used it
nyaore
This. I've changed my idea of what I wanted to do so many times over the past few years it isn't even funny.
GunstarHero
I wonder what the percentage is for people who pick what they want the first time
CandidGamera
Oh please. Don't pretend that in that reality you wouldn't be here bitching about "damn kids loafin around "findin themselves", gedda job!"
GunstarHero
Oh I think they should get jobs. It wont be what you do for the rest of your life but you shouldnt rush yourself into college loans
GunstarHero
Last thing anyone should do is just loaf around all the time
WhyAreYouLookingAtMyUsernameLookAtMyProfileBio
Damn straight. Just graduated HS and don't plan on attending college until at least next year, but trying to find a job in the meantime.
GunstarHero
Lots of things to learn outside of college too. Gain some independence
inetknght
might as well add in psychology degrees too. seems everyone's getting one, and the field's already saturated, so it also doesn't pay well
iAmNature
I'm scared this is going to happen to computer science.
Bugofbelgium
This has already happened to a degree.
Cheomesh
Growth continues upwards very fast, but one day, yeah. H1B-visas are also an issue.
iAmNature
No competition, except for slackers. Anyone who took their education seriously should be good.
inetknght
I never went to high school or college. Not ever. You can't imagine how many ivory tower university candidates suck at basic engineering.
SweetStache
Pump the brakes kiddo. There's a LOT to psychology branches and not all fields are saturated.
unaligned1
My cousin found this out the hard way. The sad part was she sort of compounded it by going for a history PhD when she couldn't find a gig.
fluxual
"You could always do more school!" Ugh
unaligned1
Yeah, when she told me, I said, "Do a hard science." Her response was, "I don't like math." & all I could say back was "Worst. Asian. EVAR."
LithiumRiku
Bout to graduate with a psy degree...tis bunk...but you know...please pay for it gov, it's not looking like I'll be able to any time soon ^^
sillyblackcat
2. My friend from psychology now works in TESCO because "jobs with people with mental health problems are too hard and don't pay well."
GoodGuyRiggs
I think thats a common misconception. You wont get a job with anything psychology related for sure. You have to at least fet a masters 1/?
GoodGuyRiggs
But if you get a gen ed psych masters you have wasted your time. Get a counseling degree, those jobs are ALWAYS in demand due to high 2/?
GoodGuyRiggs
turnover. General psychology degrees are only usedul if you want to be a professor doing research. I/O psychology is the big thing now 3/?
GoodGuyRiggs
I know of folks who graduted from that program at my school who will easily make 6 figures.
Mrstwitches89
Thank you for posting this...
fuck123456789
So just fuck all those people, they don't deserve a future
fluxual
Not if they're willing to bet their future on a field that's nearly nonexistent at this point...
GoodGuyRiggs
I don't think you know what your talking about. More like spouting crap you hear your collegues say, all anecdotal no substance.
fluxual
I'll live.
fuck123456789
You seem like a real nice guy
sillyblackcat
1.The problem with psychology is that people study psychology while they DON'T want psychology jobs. They have no idea what they want to do.
BraveUsersubNewestPatrol
My mother had a BS in Psych and retired a couple years ago as the VP of a MAJOR corporation. A more-popular BA in psych won't get you as far
Cheomesh
BAs are a joke.
TheArsonistWithNormalShapedFeet
I guess studying theater is bullshit now. Maybe we should stop making movies.
CaesarXIII
Considering most movies that release are garbage remakes or predictable ghost movies... I'm all for it.
ImMuddy
HEY!!! No one asked for your flawless logic here. (Aviation and Art Student here)
TheMostCreativeUsername
No entertainment industry means no jobs for me :( Theatre degree may be bs but theres a lot more that goes into movies than just acting.
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
You're that guy that screams "Prostate cancer matters" at a Breast Cancer rally, huh? No one is saying don't study theater. Just know (1/2)
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
what a realistic ROI is for a degree and choose a path that works OR get a flippin scholarship if you have real talent.
Mrwahwah1
That was sarcasm btw
openthedoorgetontheflooreverybodywalkthedinosaur
Yeah I mean my theatre degree that I use to write your favorite comedy shows is just crap. Glad I didn't work hard for 4 years for it.
TheArrestingAbhorrentArrantAbominableAlliterator
Seeing as most television comedies suck...
insertsupercoolusernamehere
What's my favorite show, presumptuous (and so humble!) writer friend? If you have a job you're not who this post is about, rabble-rouser.
irishnovember
I'm pretty sure you didn't write the golden girls. So.....yeah.
sharkkibble
I snorted at this.
WilderThing
Yeahhh most successful actors did not go to school for it
Glumerlink
extras often do though
TheOneRebanned
You should check your facts there buddy
WilderThing
I should've specified film actors. That I'm 100% correct about.
TheOneRebanned
Some yes, but to say most is still incorrect
WilderThing
No, it isn't. Most did not attend a college or university for a theatre or acting degree.
Mrwahwah1
Yeah fuck art entirely. Looking at a lot of the movies that have come out the past two years it seems this has already happened.
openthedoorgetontheflooreverybodywalkthedinosaur
Don't say fuck art. Hollywood and Broadway are money makers, not art makers. Ask any actual artist.
Lunakat504
Man you should be a film theorist.
thecolonels
No, you did that. Not personally. I mean society not appreciating art. Like OP, for example.
Mrwahwah1
I'm being unbelievably sarcastic here, to clarify. I love myself a well-put-together film.
thecolonels
I was blaming the fact that most large budget movies have little substance and make billions on anti-art attitudes like those in the op.
cowabungapizza
Maybe don't complain that you can't get a job when you picked a degree that only has a handful of jobs available.
Sinth0ras
but if everyone follows that advice we are on the best way to create a pork cycle
JAFIOI
Pork Cycle... wasn't that a Sasha Grey flick?
cowabungapizza
Not saying everyone should follow it, just saying do your research and know what to expect after you graduate
elementofdisaster
Not all theatre degrees = performers. I'm in technical theatre and there are jobs all over the place.
TheOneRebanned
Not sure why this got downvoted. I agree with you brother
thesixthcourier
Agreed, its not that no one should study it, but we probably don't need as many people studying the arts as there are. It's not like there >
thesixthcourier
is a BA requirement to work at Starbucks or as a Cater-waiter, and that seems to be where a lot of them end up.
LlewSipher
are you going to be the one at the college entrance counting off people and shooing away what you think is too many?
thesixthcourier
I would get immense pleasure out of dashing their pointless dreams, yes. But alas, I am unqualified to make that determination. I would >
thesixthcourier
suggest that the Department of Labor might have better qualifications and access to the necessary data/means to collect said data.
Hoop66
I doubt the people that made the greatest movies had a theatre studies degree
icameinlikeafeckingball
Oh, the old “Einstein dropped out of school” thing. Well sorry to break it to you but that doesn’t nearly half as often as people think.
GrendelTown
You don't change reality, Costumers, lighting technicians, scenic carpenters, scenic painters, sound technicians, most were theatre students
1mshadowbanned
The govt should start pushing early job training and stop pushing the myth that degrees are a silver bullet to fabulous wealth.
[deleted]
[deleted]
kmikl
Or just not charge wildly inflated rates for everything related to education, and allow students to restructure college debt like any other.
wastedpoptart
Why is this the job of govt?
Highlights333
How about we stop subsidizing it and making it more expensive too!
CandidGamera
Ah yes, "the govt" should "push" things you prefer, because fuck those nanny-state-glorifying useless college degree libruls, right? Idiot.
thebadger1725
Agree, i think new graduates should work for 2 years prior to college. Teaches life school formal education doesn't.
notme222
Rather than generalize what "the govt" does, let's start with specific cause/effect. Schools use "% going to college" as proof of success.
AManNeedsAnotherName
That is true, better education increases the quality of life...for some. But it's a flawed idea.
AstuteObservationsOfAnADDKid
Better education irrefutably increases quality of life... If the right thing is being taught: critical thinking, managing finances, culture
ThinkOfMyName
Being from the UK in the past few years they've really pushed apprenticeships and pursuing trade jobs over university which I wish I'd done
azazyel
The government has nothing to do with it. It's parents and employers that require a degree for jobs that shouldn't require them
HypnotoadIRL
A private employer should be able to choose whatever qualifications they want for a job at their business.
kmikl
Some jobs really do need them, though. Even for entry level: you need a base of knowledge.
gebsmith1
Exactly. I used to be in charge of choosing candidates to interview. We'd get thousands of applications.
gebsmith1
No way I can go through thousands of applications for every job. Instead I use some common filters and 4 yr degree was a good filter.
Twigzz
Sure, that makes sense. But that doesn't mean we have to agree with their choice.
HypnotoadIRL
Well right, but in application there needs to be some quantifiable benchmarks or you could never narrow down applicants. 1/2
HypnotoadIRL
Only way to do that is degrees or work experience. Why not take the person with the most quantifiable qualification? 2/2
aptatlas
We need to streamline job training. You want to be a doctor? Here are the classes you need. No history, no extracurricular 1/2
aptatlas
2/2 bullshit, but just the core things you need.
ProfessorBlackHole
Let's do what Germany does, in which they have apprenticeships.
CandidGamera
Yeah that system's great if you want to be doing the exact same job your whole life. Even slightly changing careers is nigh impossible.
SkellingtonBones
It's called an internship
kmikl
NO. Internship is generally wildly underpaid (if at all). If you look at the medical profession, it means you have to have a doctor /1
kmikl
/2 oversee everything. You really cannot level up skills without doing it wrong, and the number of good internships is actually limited.
idownvotekittens
We do. But making decent cash while learning useful skills like carpentry isn't as "cool" or trendy as landing that job with a tech startup
kmikl
As someone that's worked in both IT startups and carpentry, you have to do what you at least somewhat enjoy doing. I loathed carpentry.
idownvotekittens
I agree. I'm not saying trades are for everyone, but I feel like there's a whole demographic of kids who won't even consider a trade.
kmikl
I sort of agree... but then again, the 'maker' movement is pretty big.
WhatSayYouCitizen
"The govt" doesn't push that myth. Parents and modern society do, and have done, for the past 60+ years.
DaDisser
Some are tho, but not bullshit ones. I was only the 2nd on either side of my family to finish school and now i live quite well.
cowpiefatty
Mike rowe has quite a few videos on this exact mind set
kmikl
He's got a point, but he's also treading back on himself. While there is a need for tradespeople, the people doing the work have to want to.
cowpiefatty
True thats why he trys to help people see it in a more positive attitude
kmikl
I get that, but he's gone curmudgeon a few times about it, and JMO, that's the wrong way to approach the situation.
Tikityler
Love Mike Rowe That man is awesome.
cowpiefatty
I agree that man is my childhood and adulthood hero
kasaku
Statistics show that degrees are the best way to increase your earning.
TheOneWhoKnoockz
"Federal subsidized college loans" LOLOLOL suckers.
ConstantlySearchingForMyDadOnImgur
I mean we as a culture need to stop pushing the myth that college is the answer for everyone and the answer to happiness
ithinkimdoingthisright
Preach. On the flip side, employers hiring for positions that don't actually require degrees should stop mandating them
ProbablyDrunkAgain
Well it certainly beats the alternative [Source: numerous studies]
SushiPooper
Trade schools would be cool
Phantomburn
Thanks Mike Rowe.
Macalucifer666
a degree is the foundation, your ability is what gets you the job.
gebsmith1
I've seen lots of people say this. Who told you this? I was never told anything like this by family, friends, teachers, professors, etc.
kid1
This is dead accurate
twozerooz
Just like finishing high school isnt a silver bullet to fabulous wealth?
TurdsOfWisdom
Degrees will get you right to the top of the nonexistent middle class
Khentekhtai
Higher education should be FREE!! Like it used to be before greed destroyed the economy!
kmikl
... it never was free. It was really, really cheap, though.
TeeMee123
Maybe with the USA, but in the UK having a maths/engineering/science degree really helps.
bjackson246
Problem is WAY to many people aren't getting those degrees, they are majoring in stupid shit because they can.
TeeMee123
the UK government tried to remove performing arts courses from universities, im not sure how far they got because people were angry wit them
kmikl
The UK does have a performing arts tradition, however.
kmikl
Canada as well. 2 yr college degree means I'm bidding on and getting in process for $80K annual jobs.
AManNeedsAnotherName
Same case in the US. I got a MS in engineering and it definitely paid off. I got the job of my dreams and make good money
maelthra
1/2 In the UK, we don't have three times as many people getting those degrees as there are jobs available.
maelthra
2/2 The problem with uni in the states is that they push it so hard that they wind up with 723564 degrees for 5 job placements.
TeeMee123
true
itsakidsbooksantiago
Conversely, entry level jobs that don't really require a degree shouldn't be allowed to insist upon it.
gebsmith1
If there are 10,000 people interested in a job an easy way to trim that down is require a degree. 10k goes to 500 which is easier to review
Baja2185
As society pushes to artificially increase the value of labor (minimum wage) this will be more commonplace.
kasaku
Never going to happen.
CaptainLegot
Fucking right?
itsakidsbooksantiago
I mean, I'm an academic. My job requires a degree. But my billing clerk for a utility job I had before did not, and yet it did. Silliness.
Puritysdisciple
Businesses should do whatever they want. No applicants = no workers. Problem solved. Yay free market.
441jalen
Too bad it doesn't work that way in real life.
Puritysdisciple
Sure it does. If they couldn't hire people with those requirements then they would have different ones. The free market is pretty decisive.
441jalen
Not even close, but if you're not interested in engaging with reality, there's no point in arguing about your god.
BachelorGourmet
Businesses do whatever thsy want, and now we have elderly people who should be retired working the front lines of minimum wage jobs.
Vandammit
Is someone forceing them to work? Do they not have social security, did they not start a savings account?
Puritysdisciple
Retirement isn't a right. They could have invested and saved, same as everyone else. Personal responsibility is important. Have some.
BachelorGourmet
Yeah, but why shouldn't they at least be working in their fields? These are people with a long job history, they shouldn't be bag boys
YouDontKnowMeIDontKnowMe
Also...entry level jobs shouldn't be like "3 years experience and must be willing to sell soul to company."
waitwhatidontgetitexplainitslowly
"shouldn't" is much better than "shouldn't be allowed."
votic00
Can't rely on others to be logical or ethical when related to business.
waitwhatidontgetitexplainitslowly
that includes the others in government
itsakidsbooksantiago
And man, unpaid internships or 'payment in exposure' can just get the hell out.
FluffyPuddles
My housemate's sis just became the new face of one of LU's medical programs, in exchange for credit on her resume -_-
YouDontKnowMeIDontKnowMe
Agreed! Fuck that.
jazzchameleon
I've been looking at colleges, and anywhere I go there are only paid internships b/c they don't want to have a unpaid labor controversy
Darkspire
Had to bribe some motherfuckers to not get jailed for that shit.
ChaosandChaos
Agreed.
waitwhatidontgetitexplainitslowly
"allowed" by whom?
ThisNameLacksPunctuation
"Yeah... We're going to need a $50,000 piece of paper to prove you can do $25,000 worth of work."
Mrstwitches89
Except for most do insist. And can. I dont blame them for wanting someone educated. But for those of us who are, just not with a degree. 1/2
Mrstwitches89
It really sucks trying to get a job...even with lots of work experience
jonnnney
Not allowed to insist. What new laws are we passing now?
HypnotoadIRL
A business can require anything they want. Why should the government make them hire someone with less education?
itsakidsbooksantiago
At no point did I say government, for the record. Societal change doesn't have to be enforced by government mandate.
MyCatLovesToHateMe
It makes sense to hire the most edicated people so if they can, why shouldn't they?
itsakidsbooksantiago
Don't get me wrong. But it isn't needed for every single job.
itsakidsbooksantiago
Which in turn has resulted in a glut of student debt without an actual increase in productivity in the work force. Education is great, 1/
HypnotoadIRL
You said "shouldnt be allowed" which implies some regulation does it not?
itsakidsbooksantiago
It implies a change should occur. It doesn't need to be forced by the government.
Tonberryc
No, a few large, privately owned businesses changing their hiring policies would be just as (if not more) effective.
lordkickass
Absolutely. I make the same money with 2 weeks on the job training as the guy with a degree who trained me
Datdudez
The market is over saturated with degrees and not with jobs. We should demand market conditions that foster job growth.
AnalAssimilator
I dropped out of college and got a 4 year full time apprenticeship at a contracting company with no experience. Jobs are not hard to find.
AmericanRealist
Shouldn't be allowed? Are you suggesting government mandates on what employers can require from people they may hire?
zarkingphoton
It's already happened before. It's illegal to ask certain questions about marital status, or prior convictions, etc.
itsakidsbooksantiago
No, I'm saying the market should correct itself. I didn't say a damn thing about the government, and it's weird you all assume that intent.
AmericanRealist
Its your wording. Saying they shouldn't be allowed implies that an authoritative force should stop them. Most will think of government.
MagiicHat
As long as we continue pushing college on every single person, business are going to require it.
MagiicHat
Why would you want employees who are less than average?
Sipsap88
Meh, the market isnt going to correct itself anytime soon. The best way to correct an oversaturated market is to raise prices.
Sipsap88
I think the market will correct itself but it will be sudden and it will be drastic when it happens. It will take a bigger 07-09' recession.