First off, github is for programmers to share code, not for the "casuals" and second, most projects do have precompiled binaries if you go to tags then releases.
Why is it on the developer and communityh that was kind enough to share to make it available in a format that non-developers can use? What would that even look like? People like to this code just magically happen, but thats a non-trivial ask for a group of people volunteering. Maybe check the self entitlement.
I am new to Imgur and I have lots to say. I DONT CARE ABOUT ALL THE TEXT! i just want to see some pictures and have a good time and feel better about life. WHY IS THERE SO MUCH TEXT??? MAKE A JPEG FILE AND GIVE IT TO ME. these people think that everyone is a lexicographer and understands words. well i am not and i don't understand it. I only know how to look at images and feel emotions. SO WHY IS THERE WORDS? make a JPEG file and give it to me. STUPID SMART SMELLY NERDS
I write usable software as my day job. The software I write as my hobby is often not intended to be usable, and if I take any time out of my day to support you, it could very well be because I can use your issue to make my software better.
Depends on the language here but a lot of them just pull dependencies locally when you build them and don’t come pre-compiled in the way you’re suggesting
The actually comes off much worse when you realize the project they references is very much something someone would use to stalk someone online. And considering their manners, I'm inclined that is what they want to use it for. So, I think they shouldn't have access to it anyway.
Sometimes you don't have a choice when it comes to things you don't understand that lead to things you *do* understand. I've had to go hunting down Githubs to get things like downloader projects for archival purposes before, and I know very little on how proper coding works.
The guy's an even dumber of the fuck variety, but he does have a point - sometimes people will go "Hey, you should be using [Program] to do that thing you want to do!" and then you find out you need to put it together too.
I think it’s about target audience in this case. Making an exe file makes you liable for all these “dumber of the fuck variety” actions. Think of it like putting the knives out of reach for the toddlers.
Eh, I wouldn't say dressing up an EXE file suddenly makes you any more responsible for what people do with the thing than making the code at all. It's just a question of how simple it is to activate.
I've never been one to say that the maker should be responsible for how the customer uses the product, as long as they had fair warning. If you make a blender and someone sticks their pinky in the spinning blade, that's not *your* fault.
I'm a developer and I totally feel this. Sometimes I want to use a piece of software for fun and having to compile shit is just work. I think I need a new job.
Gawd, yes. Every so often I just wanna goof on my box, and jeez, time to snapshot my box, and compile and install a litany of obscure dependencies to even see if github_project_03 is any good. (Spoiler: It is not)
We used to follow very long tutorials to set up pirated copy of games, or even learn some basic HTML just to have a stupid blog with pictures on it. That's not that different, honestly. You don't even have to know how to code. Find a recipe-like tutorial. Do the commands and Bob's your uncle
This one tells you to clone the repo but it looks like you can click the green button to download the zip then run the sherlock.py script from the sherlock folder, no git needed. Would be nice if they posted under "Releases" and had non git specific instructions but they didn't.
Step 1. Install and run Docker, found here: https://docs.docker.com/desktop/install/windows-install/ Step 2. Within Docker, open a terminal by searching the menu for 'terminal' or clicking the >_ icon. Step 3. In the Docker terminal: docker pull sherlockproject/sherlock Step 4. In the Docker terminal: docker run -it sherlockproject/sherlock
GitHub UX isn’t amazing but going to a code distribution site and being mad that it doesn’t provide vulnerable EXEs and instead provides… code, feels kinda like driving all the way to a farm and shouting at a guy raising cows for not having hamburgers available for him to eat.
Guess that depends on the signage. The metaphor is a bit difficult to keep up at this point but like if I was on steam and I bought a game and the game was a notepad with a GitHub link, I’d be mad. If I found a Reddit thread on a code subreddit with “hey look at this thing I made” and it linked me to the site specifically designed for programmers to show off the thing they made, then that’s a different story
Remember kids, do not click on exe files you are unfamiliar with. Anyone from the age of LimeWire will tell you, filename "LinkinParkHybridTheroy.exe" is most currently a virus or a bit of code that will delete system32. Do not download and click execute files unless you know what they do, that is what seeing the code is for.
Google "waterloo python" and teach yourself some basic code free and online. I used the bottom link years ago, the top might also work.
I’m a professional programmer and I agree. It’s really bad on various *nix platforms. “What? You want to try this? Well first you need to download, compile and install all this other shit first, jerk! And then you can download our thing and compile it. BUT IT WON’T WORK! Because you got one of those other things WRONG, ASSHOLE!” And now I’m considering not posting this because other devs will point out that it’s not as bad anymore and I’m worried they’ll judge me, further proving I’m a real dev.
"First, go through these 20 pages of flags and arguments you'll need to set to compile my project depending on your computer, OS, dog's shoe size, day of the week, and mother's maiden name... Then... "
I've been a dev for 25 years. I don't mind having to build something for Linux. But it's INFURIATING not to be able to find a binary for Mac, where compiling anything is a nightmare. I don't want Homebrew; just giving me the fucking binary.
Exactly. I've been a nerd since commodore days, but there is still a thriving community of nerds that love convoluted processes for getting things done, I guess for some sense of accomplishment maybe? I've got shit that needs to get done, without random complexity introducing new problems I don't have time to investigate and solve.
I'm new to IKEA and I have lots to say! "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE FUCKING PLANKS! I just want a fucking Bookcase! Not everyone's a fucking carpenter!"
Ikea sells you parts with instructions. A lot of shit on GitHub has either no documentation or absolute garbage documentation. It would be more like if you ordered a car online and what showed up was a 12 foot by 8 foot aluminum ingot and a lathe.
you only have to learn to compile code once. it would be redundant to have every github page repost the same instructions. besides mr angry rant in the post is mad about a python script, which can be run with being compiled. essentially, mr angry rant doesn't understand the problem he has and is mad at someone else for sharing their solution to a different problem "I hate you because this free food mixer isn't a bookshelf!?!"
Code on github is free. Dude is complaining that he's heard about a free car and it isn't delivered to his door, he still needs to go get it and figure out himself how to get it home. Eh, analogy isn't the best for a car ...
Ah, i see what you're saying. Thats fair. I did win a free e-bike once, way back before they were cool (16 years ago, maybe?) And i had to pay heaps to get it home and since i didn't use it and couldn't sell it.... it did cost me heaps and i got nothing out of it. So your analogy is apt. Upvoted. (I didn't complain, though)
IKEA sells a product, a lot of stuff on GitHub is free, and written by people in their spare time for their own purposes. If I create an aluminium ingot and a lathe for myself to use why would I then spend hours of my own time writing instructions for someone else if I don't want to. And I'd be even more surprised to have people complaining about it and pretty much demanding I work for them for free doing whatever they are doing because I created an ingot and they think it should be a car.
I just can't even conceive of this level of entitlement. "Don't use a free distributed VCS if you don't want to make it so other people can conveniently use it for free!" Piss off.
"it's free so you can't complain!" What a dogshit opinion. If I donate $0.01 to a creators PayPal, am I then entitled to complain about their complete lack of documentation? At what monetary value does valid criticism become relevant?
No-one owes you anything. It's not a requirement for you to choose to pick up something for free then bitch about its quality.
If you don't like it then spend your own time creating a better version with documentation and put that up for free, you want someone to do it for you then pay them for their time.
Just because you personally cannot use something due to your own shortcomings doesn't mean that exact thing is useless to everyone else.
I never implied anyone owes anyone anything and your adamant defense of no documentation is very telling of your level of experience with this. "It's free so you're not allowed to complain" is a dogshit opinion that let's poor work pass without criticism. If you can't understand why it's frustrating when code is posted but without documentation to tell you what software version it uses, let alone how to use it, you're on the outside of this issue.
no, it's more like "I've been sent to IKEA, as it's the only place I can find this one bedside cabinet, but now I am expected to put it together with no tools, no help and the instructions are written in Swahili" (which is fine if you have your own toolkit and can speak swahili (or know where to find a translator), but really doesn't solve that person's issue does it?
"Hunt down social media accounts by username across social networks" You know what, I feel like it's probably a good thing they couldn't figure it out, cause now they're giving me crazy stalker vibes.
I've lost count of how many projects I've turned my back on because it reached the point where I had to start doing coding nonsense to make a primary part of it function.
It's all fun and games 'till every guide is telling you "Go use [page] to do the thing you need to do!" and then you discover that the project is about as user friendly as a beartrap in a seatcushion. Then you have to start crawling through tutorials to figure out how to turn it on.
Actually, no, I don't. A lot of what I go into tends to be stuff that doesn't have a reasonable alternative, and usually tends to be smaller projects that aren't financially viable for a properly developed and licensed software.
This pretense that all the complainers are 'Greedy and Lazy, unwilling to do the basic effort to get what they need or just open their wallet' is quite frankly a farce, and you don't look good for propagating it.
I call bullshit. You're complaining about the form of someone else's free labor. You want someone else to not just develop the solution you seek, but also pay, either in time or currency, for a CD pipeline for your benefit. It's fucking sad how entitled that is.
If what you want doesn't exist, or exist in the form you want, you either invest your own time in developing it or *pay someone to it for you.* Don't be a leech.
I...what? Mate, I have no idea what a CD Pipeline is, I just want a program I pick up to work without having to look up 'coding for dummies' so I can put in a bunch of lines to make the thing work.
I am not, and never will be, a coder. I lack the fundamental understanding of how code interacts with each other, and at best know a couple of tricks other people tell me to use. Saying 'go develop it yourself' is a non starter, because it isn't a matter of 'oh, you will figure it out eventually'.
does he tho? i mean hes calling devs dumbfucks, but do small projects want to deal with a bunch of clueless people that can only double click icons and troubleshoot all their shit for them?
Your comment reminds me legitimately of a roommate from college, a programmer- legitimately spent weeks of his life learning to code midi sequences to automate, randomize and have these really cool "No change" parameters to the synthesizer parameters to change the texture. About a week after he finishes the coding he throws his hands down on his desk on a saturday morning VERY frustrated- he hadn't learned music and expected it to be something easy to code in. Dunno what he ever did with it.
It wasn't built to service the general public. Developers used to make Pages to link builds. Now users are expected to know where to find Releases, and it's just not where normal people would look for it.
As an optomechanical engineer, I lowkey code and am familiar enough to be "dangerous" with several high-level languages. Python, Visual Basic, MATLAB. I've been to and used GitHub at least a dozen times and I always find the interface super confusing. Re-remembering how to actually download the code takes me like 5 minutes. I get that it's a me problem at the end of the day, but dang I wish it was a little more friendly to use!
Because downloads are kind of an aside to the main purpose, which is the code. There's not necessarily anything to download (other than the code)... I'd bet that the case for the vast majority of things on github. And you can click one thing to get the command to get the code, on the "home page" of the project.
Before I started coding, I was working on engineering project (yeah) and I kept wanting to save snippets of code, ppl kept telling me Github but after copying & pasting I could never get it "to save" so instead saved it on a google doc. It took my boss yrs later to explain the instructions. Now Im a full-on Data Engineer at a biotech firm and I do not use Github for my own shit, I make up reasons but its mainly bc of the anger of their obvious gatekeeping tactics that pissed me off 6 years ago
GitHub is for developers, of those developers are antisocial and don't want to make a website for nice downloading, that's on the project. Most have a website attached with an easier way to download. Such a weird complaint, honestly
The end user does not care. If developers keep pointing people to GitHub, and GitHub has such a terrible interface, it's going to get a bad reputation whether it's deserved or not.
If you go to a repo and replace "github.c">m">github.com" with "gitload.net" you get a list of versions and executables. It's very bare bones but does the trick.
If the person linking you "the program" links to "that" page of it. 90% of the time it's to a specific thing THEY did to the build so you have to go up some levels and then dig even more. It's almost always shit. Don't even get me started on the RTFM cuz there isn't one.
aha, now imagine someone does not understand your lingo - what is a repo? Why would someone access it and why is the UI of Github so fucking atrocious. Feels like it was made by the same people that 'designed' Jira. :P
Yup, there should a page for each release that is super user friendly with a big ass "download" button (and a similar page for the latest release). The page may contain any instructions specifically for the installation and then a link to more documentation. Then the etiquette for linking to the project should be to link to the download page.
I was talking about GitHub, git itself was designed by Linux himself and he made it because he hated existing versión control systems, he applied a lot of concepts from graph theory to make it easier to combine stuff and keep track of stuff but yeah, it's not everyone's cup of tea UX wise.
Not in this case, they don't want GitHub to be everyone's place to get installers, they want you to use Windows Store or any of the alternatives, they would get rid of it but it would annoy a lot of developers -snd not only users looking for free software-
Then maybe developers should stop using it as their ONLY software distribution site. How often have I encountered projects where the only official link to said project is the GitHub, often with comments like "get it here"...
The UX is still terrible even for developers. I don't know a single coder that would argue otherwise, especially since half of them make their own own UI and know UX is priority #1.
You can make a single file EXE from a python script that contains the necessary venv built in though. The end user doesn't even have to have python installed, much less the proper packages.
Which may not be what the user expects. Ideally such a project would be downloadable via pip or at least a zip file on the projects website. (But again if the person is non-technical they may not know or care to know what python is)
That may be true in this case, but projects with regular executables that are, in theory, user friends have the same problem. XCP's PV Drivers are not only on the "Releases" page rather than a download page, but the downloads are further hidden under "Assets," buried between patch notes in collapsed sections. Its stupid.
I could be mistaken here, but I see GitHub as a project origination tool (version control and issue tracker, and more) and don't think people should use it as a front facing project website. And if you are targeting nontechnical users (i.e most projects that isn't a library) then a user should be able to go to your project website and download what they need without even knowing you use GitHub to store and organise your project.
Yeah, just doesn't happen though. Mods for games that aren't popular enough for dedicated mod managers are usually just github links from the games' forums.
That's likely the intent, but projects still use it to distribute to non-contributors and end-users. I'm sure GitHub never originally intended that, but given it happens, and they must know about it, and it would take next to no effort to make steps to make this easier to navigate, its strange they don't try.
They're focusing on the things that matter to their core user base: the most important thing is the code. If a project even has releases, what matters is the tagged version of the code and the changelog. Some specific compiled version that may or may not work on any given system is an aside to an aside. You can't be giving that top billing over what your important users care about.
I think they made GitHub Pages https://pages.github.com specifically for that reason - a very simple way to get your repo out there for the salt of the Earth peoples.
MightyIink
First off, github is for programmers to share code, not for the "casuals" and second, most projects do have precompiled binaries if you go to tags then releases.
romkasmirnoff2000
"I come to a mechanic shop and expect cupcakes." Zero logic buddy, which you need to be a programmer incidentally
OakRidgeStars
Somebody needs to reboot and chill.
FollyGambit
Why is it on the developer and communityh that was kind enough to share to make it available in a format that non-developers can use? What would that even look like? People like to this code just magically happen, but thats a non-trivial ask for a group of people volunteering. Maybe check the self entitlement.
woozle
AlienJeffries81
ealkrjj
I am new to Imgur and I have lots to say. I DONT CARE ABOUT ALL THE TEXT! i just want to see some pictures and have a good time and feel better about life. WHY IS THERE SO MUCH TEXT??? MAKE A JPEG FILE AND GIVE IT TO ME. these people think that everyone is a lexicographer and understands words. well i am not and i don't understand it. I only know how to look at images and feel emotions. SO WHY IS THERE WORDS? make a JPEG file and give it to me. STUPID SMART SMELLY NERDS
Hekatombe
Ifekinlovesauerkraut
Wankers like this are 50% of the reasons why I left nexusmods and took 40+ mods for 6 games down.
OnomatopoeicOnanisma
As a Nexus user - thanks for what you've given to the community and sorry you got a negative experience. Hopefully one day you'll feel like returning.
scotchchoir
I write usable software as my day job. The software I write as my hobby is often not intended to be usable, and if I take any time out of my day to support you, it could very well be because I can use your issue to make my software better.
LeftRightThere
I hate when I download a project and then it take 20 minutes of downloading dependencies and compiling to find out it sucks
JeevesMk2
If someone hasn't bothered to package it for your distro then it probably sucks and you shouldn't waste your time.
deaththeunholy
Depends on the language here but a lot of them just pull dependencies locally when you build them and don’t come pre-compiled in the way you’re suggesting
StillNotYouTube
There usually is an EXE, but it's like they intentionally make it hard to find.
plantpr0n
Not for a python script designed to run in a Linux environment from a command line. Like the above tool, for example.
lovingspace
His manners suck but he's not wrong.
SoraHjort
The actually comes off much worse when you realize the project they references is very much something someone would use to stalk someone online. And considering their manners, I'm inclined that is what they want to use it for. So, I think they shouldn't have access to it anyway.
lovingspace
I would not necessarily assume that's the intended use. There are tons of legitimate uses of this (e.g., background checks).
EchoPMIM
Eh. Creepy stalking doesn't magically become less creepy when someone with a fancy job title does it.
KnightWithShiningCamera
MFW someone trusts compiled programs from random developers
v
IrrelevantIrrelevant
Sometimes you don't have a choice when it comes to things you don't understand that lead to things you *do* understand. I've had to go hunting down Githubs to get things like downloader projects for archival purposes before, and I know very little on how proper coding works.
The guy's an even dumber of the fuck variety, but he does have a point - sometimes people will go "Hey, you should be using [Program] to do that thing you want to do!" and then you find out you need to put it together too.
KnightWithShiningCamera
I think it’s about target audience in this case.
Making an exe file makes you liable for all these “dumber of the fuck variety” actions. Think of it like putting the knives out of reach for the toddlers.
KnightWithShiningCamera
Variety”s peoples actions*
IrrelevantIrrelevant
Eh, I wouldn't say dressing up an EXE file suddenly makes you any more responsible for what people do with the thing than making the code at all. It's just a question of how simple it is to activate.
I've never been one to say that the maker should be responsible for how the customer uses the product, as long as they had fair warning. If you make a blender and someone sticks their pinky in the spinning blade, that's not *your* fault.
Einbrecher
Compiling it yourself doesn't make it any safer if you don't comb through the source code before compiling it.
LoopStricken
You think I know anyone from Microsoft or Discord or Steam or Mozilla any better than Github's 'random developers'?
ShoggothTree
Should ask for a refund
StillNotYouTube
lol solid response.
CatSparkleBreaker
I just want a picture of a got-dang hotdog
Froggi3
Lmao this child truly lost it 😂
vmos
I'm a developer and I totally feel this. Sometimes I want to use a piece of software for fun and having to compile shit is just work. I think I need a new job.
maxzero
Gawd, yes. Every so often I just wanna goof on my box, and jeez, time to snapshot my box, and compile and install a litany of obscure dependencies to even see if github_project_03 is any good. (Spoiler: It is not)
WingedSunSnake
We used to follow very long tutorials to set up pirated copy of games, or even learn some basic HTML just to have a stupid blog with pictures on it. That's not that different, honestly. You don't even have to know how to code. Find a recipe-like tutorial. Do the commands and Bob's your uncle
nananashisan
This one tells you to clone the repo but it looks like you can click the green button to download the zip then run the sherlock.py script from the sherlock folder, no git needed. Would be nice if they posted under "Releases" and had non git specific instructions but they didn't.
rbudrick
What does a normie do with said script?
plantpr0n
A google or Youtube video or two to learn.
plantpr0n
Hah.
plantpr0n
Let me rephrase, a lazy normie not willing to learn how a python script runs doesn't do shit ;).
ruint
Step 1. Install and run Docker, found here: https://docs.docker.com/desktop/install/windows-install/
Step 2. Within Docker, open a terminal by searching the menu for 'terminal' or clicking the >_ icon.
Step 3. In the Docker terminal: docker pull sherlockproject/sherlock
Step 4. In the Docker terminal: docker run -it sherlockproject/sherlock
rbudrick
Profit? But for real, what is this?
ruint
i think it's a script to find bot networks, you put in usernames and it searches for cloned content or something?
KiwiGameDev
GitHub UX isn’t amazing but going to a code distribution site and being mad that it doesn’t provide vulnerable EXEs and instead provides… code, feels kinda like driving all the way to a farm and shouting at a guy raising cows for not having hamburgers available for him to eat.
loismustdie
What if you went to what appeared to be a burger joint, but when you went inside all you found was a map to that farm?
KiwiGameDev
Guess that depends on the signage. The metaphor is a bit difficult to keep up at this point but like if I was on steam and I bought a game and the game was a notepad with a GitHub link, I’d be mad. If I found a Reddit thread on a code subreddit with “hey look at this thing I made” and it linked me to the site specifically designed for programmers to show off the thing they made, then that’s a different story
EaNasirsExcellentHighGradeCopper
graehall
as always your username reminds me of this GIF
Amanda55andcows
He's not out of line. GitHub is a giant turd I'd you're not a programmer.
DartTarget13
Remember kids, do not click on exe files you are unfamiliar with. Anyone from the age of LimeWire will tell you, filename "LinkinParkHybridTheroy.exe" is most currently a virus or a bit of code that will delete system32. Do not download and click execute files unless you know what they do, that is what seeing the code is for.
Google "waterloo python" and teach yourself some basic code free and online. I used the bottom link years ago, the top might also work.
KiwiGameDev
I mean… yeah? Commercial airline cockpits are pretty damn confusing for civilians too
DragonBjorne
I’m a professional programmer and I agree. It’s really bad on various *nix platforms. “What? You want to try this? Well first you need to download, compile and install all this other shit first, jerk! And then you can download our thing and compile it. BUT IT WON’T WORK! Because you got one of those other things WRONG, ASSHOLE!” And now I’m considering not posting this because other devs will point out that it’s not as bad anymore and I’m worried they’ll judge me, further proving I’m a real dev.
nozerohero
Me, a degen: -f
sadurdaynight
"First, go through these 20 pages of flags and arguments you'll need to set to compile my project depending on your computer, OS, dog's shoe size, day of the week, and mother's maiden name... Then... "
shawnmilo
I've been a dev for 25 years. I don't mind having to build something for Linux. But it's INFURIATING not to be able to find a binary for Mac, where compiling anything is a nightmare. I don't want Homebrew; just giving me the fucking binary.
loismustdie
Exactly. I've been a nerd since commodore days, but there is still a thriving community of nerds that love convoluted processes for getting things done, I guess for some sense of accomplishment maybe? I've got shit that needs to get done, without random complexity introducing new problems I don't have time to investigate and solve.
amishjosh
Just need to download Python 4.2.0 and JRE 6.9 and then you're good to go
majortool
RTFM
fastlaserjockey
I'm new to IKEA and I have lots to say! "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE FUCKING PLANKS! I just want a fucking Bookcase! Not everyone's a fucking carpenter!"
usafsmith8408
WingedSunSnake
That sums it up right there.
gunnexx
Are you comparing IKEA instructions (which ANY idiot can read and use) to Github, which sometimes even stumps real devs?
Trunkmonkay
Ikea sells you parts with instructions. A lot of shit on GitHub has either no documentation or absolute garbage documentation. It would be more like if you ordered a car online and what showed up was a 12 foot by 8 foot aluminum ingot and a lathe.
AVeryLongFuseWithAVeryBigBangAtTheEnd
you only have to learn to compile code once. it would be redundant to have every github page repost the same instructions. besides mr angry rant in the post is mad about a python script, which can be run with being compiled. essentially, mr angry rant doesn't understand the problem he has and is mad at someone else for sharing their solution to a different problem "I hate you because this free food mixer isn't a bookshelf!?!"
soniclettuce
I'd be pretty happy with a free ingot and lathe
ZOMGNO
If you ordered it... you paid for it.
dasklaus
Code on github is free. Dude is complaining that he's heard about a free car and it isn't delivered to his door, he still needs to go get it and figure out himself how to get it home. Eh, analogy isn't the best for a car ...
ZOMGNO
Ah, i see what you're saying. Thats fair. I did win a free e-bike once, way back before they were cool (16 years ago, maybe?) And i had to pay heaps to get it home and since i didn't use it and couldn't sell it.... it did cost me heaps and i got nothing out of it. So your analogy is apt. Upvoted. (I didn't complain, though)
behshana
IKEA sells a product, a lot of stuff on GitHub is free, and written by people in their spare time for their own purposes. If I create an aluminium ingot and a lathe for myself to use why would I then spend hours of my own time writing instructions for someone else if I don't want to. And I'd be even more surprised to have people complaining about it and pretty much demanding I work for them for free doing whatever they are doing because I created an ingot and they think it should be a car.
Trunkmonkay
It's not a requirement to post your code on GitHub. If you're not going to bother properly documenting your work, don't post it.
brianterrel
I just can't even conceive of this level of entitlement. "Don't use a free distributed VCS if you don't want to make it so other people can conveniently use it for free!" Piss off.
Trunkmonkay
"it's free so you can't complain!" What a dogshit opinion. If I donate $0.01 to a creators PayPal, am I then entitled to complain about their complete lack of documentation? At what monetary value does valid criticism become relevant?
behshana
No-one owes you anything. It's not a requirement for you to choose to pick up something for free then bitch about its quality.
If you don't like it then spend your own time creating a better version with documentation and put that up for free, you want someone to do it for you then pay them for their time.
Just because you personally cannot use something due to your own shortcomings doesn't mean that exact thing is useless to everyone else.
Trunkmonkay
I never implied anyone owes anyone anything and your adamant defense of no documentation is very telling of your level of experience with this. "It's free so you're not allowed to complain" is a dogshit opinion that let's poor work pass without criticism. If you can't understand why it's frustrating when code is posted but without documentation to tell you what software version it uses, let alone how to use it, you're on the outside of this issue.
amp99
Could I interest you in a coffee table, perhaps?
damogen
That would be an extremely expensive coffee table. Wood isn't cheap.
DdCno1
I wouldn't be surprised if this is hollow and only made to look like a bunch of planks..
amp99
Or a bedside table?
ThanksForTheThing
As "not a programmer", some of the coffee tables on GitHub I want to use are like
pocketpython
no, it's more like "I've been sent to IKEA, as it's the only place I can find this one bedside cabinet, but now I am expected to put it together with no tools, no help and the instructions are written in Swahili" (which is fine if you have your own toolkit and can speak swahili (or know where to find a translator), but really doesn't solve that person's issue does it?
SoraHjort
"Hunt down social media accounts by username across social networks" You know what, I feel like it's probably a good thing they couldn't figure it out, cause now they're giving me crazy stalker vibes.
gorramgomer
I hate it when a d/l link sends me to GitHub. I just want the program, I don't want to compile it myself.
xiaodown
Usually there's a link to pre-compiled binaries, see:
/a/nDwa5hY
laserfrog
Poster has a point. Lots of small projects use github exclusively when they are at the "have a user centered website" stage.
IrrelevantIrrelevant
I've lost count of how many projects I've turned my back on because it reached the point where I had to start doing coding nonsense to make a primary part of it function.
It's all fun and games 'till every guide is telling you "Go use [page] to do the thing you need to do!" and then you discover that the project is about as user friendly as a beartrap in a seatcushion. Then you have to start crawling through tutorials to figure out how to turn it on.
drhobotron
You do always have the option of paying someone for software.
IrrelevantIrrelevant
Actually, no, I don't. A lot of what I go into tends to be stuff that doesn't have a reasonable alternative, and usually tends to be smaller projects that aren't financially viable for a properly developed and licensed software.
This pretense that all the complainers are 'Greedy and Lazy, unwilling to do the basic effort to get what they need or just open their wallet' is quite frankly a farce, and you don't look good for propagating it.
drhobotron
I call bullshit. You're complaining about the form of someone else's free labor. You want someone else to not just develop the solution you seek, but also pay, either in time or currency, for a CD pipeline for your benefit. It's fucking sad how entitled that is.
If what you want doesn't exist, or exist in the form you want, you either invest your own time in developing it or *pay someone to it for you.* Don't be a leech.
IrrelevantIrrelevant
I...what? Mate, I have no idea what a CD Pipeline is, I just want a program I pick up to work without having to look up 'coding for dummies' so I can put in a bunch of lines to make the thing work.
I am not, and never will be, a coder. I lack the fundamental understanding of how code interacts with each other, and at best know a couple of tricks other people tell me to use. Saying 'go develop it yourself' is a non starter, because it isn't a matter of 'oh, you will figure it out eventually'.
CyberWizard252
"Beartrap in a seatcushion". Thank you for adding to my personal lexicon!
KingORedLions
The project in question is a python script for stalking people. There is no downloadable exe.
sesnut
does he tho? i mean hes calling devs dumbfucks, but do small projects want to deal with a bunch of clueless people that can only double click icons and troubleshoot all their shit for them?
fadingtheory
Can be kind of a chore to find the downloads on GitHub, especially if you don't go there often. Why there isn't a dedicated tab is beyond me
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NachoIskerka
Your comment reminds me legitimately of a roommate from college, a programmer- legitimately spent weeks of his life learning to code midi sequences to automate, randomize and have these really cool "No change" parameters to the synthesizer parameters to change the texture. About a week after he finishes the coding he throws his hands down on his desk on a saturday morning VERY frustrated- he hadn't learned music and expected it to be something easy to code in. Dunno what he ever did with it.
GreenFox
It wasn't built to service the general public. Developers used to make Pages to link builds. Now users are expected to know where to find Releases, and it's just not where normal people would look for it.
mjperk
As an optomechanical engineer, I lowkey code and am familiar enough to be "dangerous" with several high-level languages. Python, Visual Basic, MATLAB. I've been to and used GitHub at least a dozen times and I always find the interface super confusing. Re-remembering how to actually download the code takes me like 5 minutes. I get that it's a me problem at the end of the day, but dang I wish it was a little more friendly to use!
AdamGenesis
WHY IS THERE CODE?!
BeaverOnFire
Chore? It bored lines on the impossible sometimes and I've been doing this coding thing since before DOS 5, so at least a week.
soniclettuce
Because downloads are kind of an aside to the main purpose, which is the code. There's not necessarily anything to download (other than the code)... I'd bet that the case for the vast majority of things on github. And you can click one thing to get the command to get the code, on the "home page" of the project.
Raecracy123abc
Before I started coding, I was working on engineering project (yeah) and I kept wanting to save snippets of code, ppl kept telling me Github but after copying & pasting I could never get it "to save" so instead saved it on a google doc. It took my boss yrs later to explain the instructions. Now Im a full-on Data Engineer at a biotech firm and I do not use Github for my own shit, I make up reasons but its mainly bc of the anger of their obvious gatekeeping tactics that pissed me off 6 years ago
Habtor
I know a lot about building computers I know very little about about any kind of modern code. Only thing I learned in school was E-basic
aPokal
It's to keep the normies out.
mjperk
Why not be inclusive and encourage the normies, or anyone for that matter to participate if they want?
Raecracy123abc
I hate that shit
Toqom
GitHub is for developers, of those developers are antisocial and don't want to make a website for nice downloading, that's on the project. Most have a website attached with an easier way to download. Such a weird complaint, honestly
Quixus
Because it is a source code repository. Providing compiled executables is an afterthought at best.
infohippie
And that's fine except every developer is like "You want to use my app! Great! You can get it at GitHub!"
Quixus
That is on the developer, not github.
infohippie
The end user does not care. If developers keep pointing people to GitHub, and GitHub has such a terrible interface, it's going to get a bad reputation whether it's deserved or not.
FlippedOut
Then, they should provide a direct link to the installable. Or expect only knowledge people to be able to use it.
coothlesscthulhu
If there is a compiled executable you can typically access it by clicking "Releases" on the right side of the repo.
huey9k
DON'T TELL THEM!
AyrA
If you go to a repo and replace "github.c">m">github.com" with "gitload.net" you get a list of versions and executables. It's very bare bones but does the trick.
Odb718
If the person linking you "the program" links to "that" page of it. 90% of the time it's to a specific thing THEY did to the build so you have to go up some levels and then dig even more. It's almost always shit. Don't even get me started on the RTFM cuz there isn't one.
cAPTNcAPSLOCK
aha, now imagine someone does not understand your lingo - what is a repo? Why would someone access it and why is the UI of Github so fucking atrocious. Feels like it was made by the same people that 'designed' Jira. :P
gunnexx
It needs a "Download program" button right there on the front page.
Awaras
Yeah, but the average person is used to a big green blinking "download" button... (Or possibly several).
TheJuiceLoosener
At least two of which are ads and at least one is malware
ageek3000
Yup, there should a page for each release that is super user friendly with a big ass "download" button (and a similar page for the latest release). The page may contain any instructions specifically for the installation and then a link to more documentation. Then the etiquette for linking to the project should be to link to the download page.
Malibloo
Which, respectfully, even as programmer, is terrible UX. The entirety of GitHub oozes bad UX design.
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coothlesscthulhu
I'm not disagreeing at all, it's terrible. I was just trying to be helpful with some info lol.
Malibloo
No problem here, it was just an addendum, not a disagreement!
coothlesscthulhu
titoitoi
And the entirety of the language used - I get the need for technical jargon, but git talk is absurdly obtuse.
soniclettuce
git is a piece of graph theory disguised as a program
CeoHuntingSeason
It's by design, they dont want github to be your go-to place for installers, their target audience it's developers/coders
Malibloo
For the longest time I didn't want to use git because of those issues, so I'm not sure how they think this works if that's the case.
CeoHuntingSeason
I was talking about GitHub, git itself was designed by Linux himself and he made it because he hated existing versión control systems, he applied a lot of concepts from graph theory to make it easier to combine stuff and keep track of stuff but yeah, it's not everyone's cup of tea UX wise.
HedonistBeard
Well yes. That's always been the nerd downfall. A lot of us seem unable to accept that UX is a top priority in how useful things are.
CeoHuntingSeason
Not in this case, they don't want GitHub to be everyone's place to get installers, they want you to use Windows Store or any of the alternatives, they would get rid of it but it would annoy a lot of developers -snd not only users looking for free software-
manulofdoom
Well it's owned by Microsoft...
Malibloo
Wasn't always. Microsoft also has Azure now.
ahnteis
It's not a software distribution site - it's an open source code repository.
Einbrecher
Except most projects use it for both.
DrunkGermanGuy
Then maybe developers should stop using it as their ONLY software distribution site. How often have I encountered projects where the only official link to said project is the GitHub, often with comments like "get it here"...
williamtowel
The UX is still terrible even for developers. I don't know a single coder that would argue otherwise, especially since half of them make their own own UI and know UX is priority #1.
scotchchoir
I like the github UI. I'm not a UX person, so I won't argue it's _good_ (because I'm not an authority on that), but my preference is that I like it.
TheRealFireFrenzy
i mean there being "github etiquette" is half about "how we all agree to deal with this user interface" and half about "not being a cunt online"
HedonistBeard
In theory, sure. In practice it's used as a software distribution site by most small projects.
ahnteis
It's easy enough for the dev to put a download link in the readme to the latest compiled EXE if they want to do so.
OnlyOneArman
It's almost like people *want* to distribute their code and software from the same place!
Hekatombe
The project he is linking to is a Python project.
truemetalman
You can make a single file EXE from a python script that contains the necessary venv built in though. The end user doesn't even have to have python installed, much less the proper packages.
dedpan
and boy is it a pain in the ass
Fengor
It's very impression a snake from the eastern subtropics was able to write software considering its lack of hands.
tinydog
Ha! Interpreted, not compiled.
DarkZalgo
py2exe
Hekatombe
Which may not be what the user expects. Ideally such a project would be downloadable via pip or at least a zip file on the projects website. (But again if the person is non-technical they may not know or care to know what python is)
Quixus
But not on a source code repository. This belongs on a site catering to normal users not developers.
HedonistBeard
In theory, yes. In practice github is the only user-facing site for most small projects.
fadingtheory
That may be true in this case, but projects with regular executables that are, in theory, user friends have the same problem. XCP's PV Drivers are not only on the "Releases" page rather than a download page, but the downloads are further hidden under "Assets," buried between patch notes in collapsed sections. Its stupid.
Hekatombe
I could be mistaken here, but I see GitHub as a project origination tool (version control and issue tracker, and more) and don't think people should use it as a front facing project website. And if you are targeting nontechnical users (i.e most projects that isn't a library) then a user should be able to go to your project website and download what they need without even knowing you use GitHub to store and organise your project.
Myoron
Yeah, just doesn't happen though. Mods for games that aren't popular enough for dedicated mod managers are usually just github links from the games' forums.
Hekatombe
Nexus mod. Or is that just for big games?
fadingtheory
That's likely the intent, but projects still use it to distribute to non-contributors and end-users. I'm sure GitHub never originally intended that, but given it happens, and they must know about it, and it would take next to no effort to make steps to make this easier to navigate, its strange they don't try.
soniclettuce
They're focusing on the things that matter to their core user base: the most important thing is the code. If a project even has releases, what matters is the tagged version of the code and the changelog. Some specific compiled version that may or may not work on any given system is an aside to an aside. You can't be giving that top billing over what your important users care about.
pupquine
I think they made GitHub Pages https://pages.github.com specifically for that reason - a very simple way to get your repo out there for the salt of the Earth peoples.