Fleischereifachverkaufer
294972
10829
538
Apr 25, 2014 8:16 AM
Fleischereifachverkaufer
294972
10829
538
PansyHedinger
I'm not against a (for the most part) free market. But soooo much evil is done in the name of freedom.
A1CEstep
Am I the only one that started singing "When I was a young warthog!"
keppay
when he was a young warthoooooog!
tuckamuck
Much better than what came into my head. The opening of MCR's "Welcome to the Black Parade"
CrabWallet
"The resources were unchanged" during the stone age, and the black plague too. The point of markets is to convert resources to useful forms.
z0mbi
Wasn't the Flag Pledge written and incorporated in the 50's?
Caltivo
http://youtu.be/wsDNZ1T_X0I?t=5m55s
Aeden
Thank you <3
Semlohwerd
A wise man has a solution, not a problem.
dogegirl666
The point isn't WW2 it's that resources are an arms reach away and we need to manage them properly
albatross17
Yeah fuck capitalism! (Typed from my macbook pro)
dogegirl666
In an RBE you would still have your macbook pro, more than likely one without the built in obsolescence and (1)
dogegirl666
just to get you to buy another. Also the pollution this causes has to stop before it's too late
Raguleader
What's an RBE?
Avengur
Um... no. Economics are pretty inherent to human nature. The government fucking with economies causes bad things, not the economies.
xkr73
Really? Because I'm pretty sure that if the U.S. Government had properly regulated it's banks then the recession would not have happened
Avengur
Which recession? If it's the most recent one you speak of, the government forcing banks into making terrible loans is what caused it.
dontlookatmeever
Yea, there's a lot of horseshit people out there think. Blame the banks which were forced to make obviously toxic loans by the CRA!
Monochron
Throughout this I was thinking "okay, this guy doesn't grasp society". I soften by the end, but honestly, he just doesn't want to play along
SerialKitten666
Playing along is how you end up with North Korea and Nazi Germany in the first place...
Monochron
No it's not. Playing along in society is how you remain successful while you fight to change things.
dogegirl666
why play along with a damaging system knowing full well we can do so much better?
Monochron
Because unless you are changing the system then you are just whining. You can try to change it while playing along and being prosperous.
XxStuntxX
I was expecting the end to say, "I regret not trying to help my Earth by being an activist to enlighten others of their devious ways."
dogegirl666
He was and is though, to this day he never stopped learning and teaching
Monochron
That would have been a pretty good ending.
irunmun
Fresh Fresco still alive and fighting for what he believes in! He is 98 by now and will hopefully live many more years.
HailSatinGodOfFabric
Primary economic resources may have been unchanged, but consumer demand drives the basis for secondary and tertiary economies.
LIXOsoundstorm
Lost me at the bit about how we could've fed people with the resources used in WW2. Hitler was killing people and planning on more. Fuck you
TheGirafe
I still don't pledge allegiance to any flag. Fuck that.
TheGirafe
papasmurf1118
I don't agree with saying "Fuck it". I don't feel love for one particular country, but for the whole world
MrAwesomesauce101
I pledge allegiance to the flag because I know that my grandfathers died to preserve it. We are one Nation, one big family.
TheGirafe
MrAwesomesauce101
Think Globally act locally. Take care of your own countries problems and other countries might follow suite.
aShogunNamedMarcus
Hopefully in 75 years I'll still be disposed to the well-formed arguments for a free market set forth by F.A. Hayek and Milton Friedman.
Catfactory
I hope you won't be.
CptTightPants
"Well-formed arguements" that's the most hilarious joke I've ever heard! hahahahahaha
aShogunNamedMarcus
So you've read books like "Road to Serfdom" and/or "Free to Choose" and took issue with specific parts of them I take it? Do tell!
CptTightPants
Yeah, all of them. It's all complete bullshit.
dontlookatmeever
I guarantee you that CptTightPants here did not read those books. I'm a (in theory) Objectivist and I love both those books you mentioned.
Runef
In case people want to know its from Zeitgeist the Movie.
papasmurf1118
It's from the third installation of the film series, Zeitgeist: Moving Forward
kraystudiosi
Sitting on imgur skimming through cat pictures isnt gonna change shit -_- stfu and conform
Alexthymia
Pre-WWII, Americans saluted the flag with an outstretched arm, not the hand over the heart.
dogegirl666
For anyone wanting the official source: http://youtu.be/4Z9WVZddH9w
VectorVictor
I see many here confusing capitalism with oligarchy. The entire world uses debt as money and is the cause of all. Jekyll Island.
bhobbit123
It can be a problem, but debt markets are also an essential and powerful engine of capitalism. Economies simply can't grow w/o them.
likeabakerikneadthedough
They can actually; industrial revolution was funded by investors of shares in companies, so returns from business performance, not interest
bhobbit123
That's what I meant by debt markets.
likeabakerikneadthedough
Ah, ok but company isn't funded by debt, investors invest in shares and take a stake, so why would that include debt markets?
bhobbit123
I think from a business's perspective there's only a minor difference btwn selling stock and taking out a loan.
VectorVictor
True, and now we are at the end of the exponential curve of debt growth like all ponzis do. Growth for growth's sake will collapse.
bhobbit123
Too much debt is bad. But you can't have a modern economy w/o debt at all. As for growth, idk how it's supposed to work.
VectorVictor
It's difficult to envision anything outside of the current paradigm. I do know debt is only beneficial for money changers and usurpers.
bhobbit123
It's good for any business that wants to grow. It's good for me, bc I don't have enough cash on hand to pay my college tuition
MariaNLang
Ah, the Zeitgeist movies and Venus Project. I thought the internet collectively got over those a couple years ago? <_<
dogegirl666
Nope, stronger and growing ever since! :D
ratthechicken
Still on about the illuminaughty and robot slaves...... good for you.....
Roflcopter92
Who can take you seriously when you say "illuminaughty" lmao.
ratthechicken
Zeitgeist had a third of their first movie dedicated to truther theories lol THAT I can't take seriously.
Roflcopter92
Whatever that means.
dogegirl666
RBE is about planetary resources and energy management by means of science and logic, no relation to "Illuminati"
ratthechicken
It's a bunch of conspiracy nuts. I used to be into that shit, until I took a step back and saw it was all bullshit.
Raguleader
Really weird seeing Nazi Sherman tanks.
THEREAINTNOWEEPININTHISHOME
Also, the Pledge of Allegiance wasn't really a thing until we joined in WW2.
pharoahjared
It was https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg
fzwo
German Sherman.
JustAwfulThings
Surprise! Hippies don't know shit about tanks.
ordohereticusinquisitor
But it was in ww2!
AverageSizedDudeButSmallBoots
It made my inner historian twitch.
copingcabana
I did Nazi that coming.
notsosilentbob
It's not uncommon to see forces capture enemy armor and munitions and use them for their own means.
ordohereticusinquisitor
The Nazis made extensive use of captured M4.
Braethias
that was my thought as well
CirqueDuSolaire
And that should tell you everything you need to know about this post.
tacticalfacepalm
u WoT m8?
tacticalfacepalm
cuz I do...
craigjorgensen69
I feel like that in itself was what he was trying to demonstrate. It doesn't matter whose symbol was on whose tank. It was mindless killing.
Aesaar
Yeah, stopping Nazi Germany was totally just mindless killing.[/sarcasm]
Rytam
i play on 360... i know i know i know, but all my friends play on 360 so what can i do?
Raguleader
Play what now?
Rytam
World of Tanks 360 edition
Raguleader
Also, I love that this went from bottom comment out of something like six on a post with like 4 upvotes to suddenly controversy.
Sleelan
Good to see I'm not the only one.
paigezero
Really? That's what we're taking from this whole post. Ignore the message, point out that someone draw an inaccurately shaped tank. Ffs.
ordohereticusinquisitor
It's not inaccurately shaped, it's the wrong tank altogether.
paigezero
Oh, that makes it all better then, yes, screw the message, the tank is wrong!
Raguleader
The tank is actually very accurately shaped, that's why it jumped out at me as a Sherman and not "Random tank".
JasonAbbadon
Peabody pushed him too far...
Galdornae
Really? That's what you got from this?
Raguleader
Not the only thing, but as a history buff, it's a goof that jumped out at me.
Galdornae
Fair enough.
Raguleader
What's weird is it's a *really well drawn* Sherman tank, which is what makes the Swastikas puzzling.
Galdornae
Maybe the result of a google image search for "World War II tanks" plus some uh... creative license.
Frei
THANKYOU
Devils29
damn, beat me to it
Bobothetalkingclown
Though they did actually exist.
Gregah
Not weird, you just could nazi them in world war 2
WhatzitTooya
Maybe the nazis won the war but the propaganda has covered it up for like, 70 years?
SomebodyalreadytookMyPants
THis made me fucking laugh out loud! Not a fake internet lol but a real fucking guffaw!
Raguleader
But aside from that, source?
azraelthewhite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
Raguleader
Thankee.
IPutTheLaughterInManslaughter
It's a premium tank, have you not played World of Tanks? It's realistic and historically accurate. Duh. Also: wrong swastika.
MTP1337
WoT!
lelapa
MK you do realize the Nazis did capture Shermans occasional and put them to use? And yes I do play WOT and you are entirely wrong
HarryBlackstoneCopperfieldDresden
As a WoT player, lol. Also as a WoT player, *cringe*.
AxNinjaX
As a former WoT player and current War Thunder player... [CRINGING INTENSIFIES]
Wesugi
also it's not a Premium tank in the German Tank line.
Inchpunch
U WoT m8?
CptVolkow
So they were Finnish Sherman tanks.
IHeartTrains
Or the war thunder premium..which is an American Sherman bought by Russia and captured by Germany
brauntosaurus
I haven't played it for 3 hours already today... oops
wuttwuttinthebutt
LOL this venus project stuff cracks me up. Guess how they'll fix it? Super Robots. (i'm not kidding, thats their plan)
papasmurf1118
No, not super robots. Technology, in general, which is increasing at an exponential rate.
dogegirl666
SuperRobots sounds great to me ;) But no, there's actual foundation to the basic premise + we need these solutions
wuttwuttinthebutt
Their foundations are unworkable. How exactly are they going to be able to document all resources considering they change based on use?
bhobbit123
I actually think that's the most realistic part of their predictions I've read so far.
kolyu
Actually no, society won't get fixed with 'super robots'. Automatization will help. But we must educate ourselves and question our believes.
wuttwuttinthebutt
Well, super robot automation is pretty much what the venus project hinges on. I mean, watch their videos and just ask yourself 'how?'
kolyu
Well i had. The answer is education. The next question is how do we educate people.
ratthechicken
I know! HAHAHA These people are not even living in the same world as the rest of us.
holomanga
They're living in a better world! ;n;
WhispersOfEvergreen
Why would anyone want to? Your world is shallow.
bibarel
wot
steve699
http://imgur.co">SQVnY4m">http://imgur.com/SQVnY4m http://imgur.com/p2WeYIs
WhatEvenIs84575
Well, isn't he grumpy?
zillamaster55
"I am strongly in favour of using poisonous gas against uncivilised tribes." - Churchill
zillamaster55
http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2002/nov/28/features11.g21 Source
CountSnarkula
love these, thanks.
ReasonablyUnattractive
That's why (in the US), we're a constitutional Republic. - A true democracy would be awful.
thehammerismypenis
I don't know why this is downvoted. You're right, after all.
NephCohen
because it's irrelevant- even with the US not being a true democracy, it still suffers from this problem.
CountessVonFingerbang
Except for the recent study that says we're not anymore. We're basically an oligarchy now.
ReasonablyUnattractive
Our government is set up as a Republic. But yes, through Crony-Capitalism we're more or less an Oligarchy. A popular vote won't change that.
ratthechicken
It's not any better, now we have an entire political society built on nothing but rhetoric and carefully crafted lies that pander for votes.
someguyonthissite
And a terrible, terrible voting system. http://youtu.be/7wC42HgLA4k
vaevictus0
indeed, with today's technology, everyone could vote on issue. That'd be awful. Even my Senator said it'd be terrible.
itsamazing
except that constitutional republic and democracy are not mutually exclusive forms of government, they refer to different aspects of a whole
itsamazing
it would be like saying that a human being is a male not a homo sapiens. One is gender, one is species neither are exclusive of the other.
NephCohen
it's more like saying a beagle is not a dog- democracy is a system in which members vote, and republic is a kind of democracy
BossTrabs
Winston Churchill was a racist, fascist scumbag.
BingleyBingleyBeep
Yes? Did you have a point? Ad hominem attacks are the worst form of laziness and an acknowledgement that you have no argument.
SandNigga
Not everyone's vote should carry the same weight.
OhnoDinosaur
yeah, but if we changed to a weighted voting system, who do you think would get the most pull? definitely not the people that should.
fzwo
You HAVE a weighted voting system, if I am informed correctly. Like certain citizens (criminals, for instance) have no vote.
thisisthebesticouldowithouthaspacebar
Fairly certain it's only felons that aren't allowed. And, I would assume those criminals currently in prison. Don't quote me on it.
OhnoDinosaur
since we use the electoral college. basically we get a certain number of designated voters per state based on population. so long as 2/3
OhnoDinosaur
vote close to what the individual ballots turn out to be all's peachy. sometimes they do vote differently than ind. voters when it's close
OhnoDinosaur
you're kind of right. prisoners have no vote, but everyone else' is weighted the same. in all actuality, individual votes don't matter 1/2
babylonhoose
This guy is actually talking about Corporatism which means democracy doesn't exist.
AsheLake
Oligarchy.
Ravenclanner
I've always wondered if it was better or worse that it is not heritable. One hand, less shitty kids, just who is rich, other hand, the top
Ravenclanner
is good at finding ways to stay at the top (normally by keeping others down) because their power is by ability and not right.
SavageDrums
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/194/3/a/two_wolves_and_a_sheep_by_Satansgoalie.jpg
fksponges
do you have more of these?
[deleted]
[deleted]
notme222
This particular point has nothing to do with a two-party system. He's talking about tyrrany of the majority.
SavageDrums
I'm Canadian... our "more sane" system allowed the Conservatives to get a "majority" with 39% of the popular vote...
Markuspsyches
Do you think Alternative Voting would work in Canada? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
CaptainScarfish
(1) That's why we need a system where you can rank parties in order of preference, so when a party is knocked out of the race, its votes
CaptainScarfish
(2) can be redistributed to other parties that align more closely with the voter's preference.
NephCohen
but... but... but... how will I buy my way into office?
SavageDrums
Absolutely. Preferential Ballot. I SO want that system in place.
hookerbot5000
I'm honestly more partial to the form of government in Starship troopers (the book not the movies). but with some modificaitons
hotxbuns
If your solution to a worldwide economic system can be summed up in an imgur post, it's not a real solution.
omgwhatamidoing
You can move to Italy, but you'll never be Italian. You can move to Japan, but you'll never be Japanese. You can move to America, from 1/2
BangForTheBuck
You can visit Trinidad for a week and be a Trini.
warick
Just a few miles from me there's whole neighborhoods full of Hispanics that have no desire to become Americans
omgwhatamidoing
I said you could be, you're right though, some have no desire to assimilate, they just want the benefits of living here.
omgwhatamidoing
anywhere in the world, and you can forever, henceforth be, an American.
JTorrent
And never be free of our taxes. Even if you were born here, moved out of the country a few years later, and never returned.
MauricioGuaura
...Sure, If that makes you feel better....
CptTightPants
It's more realistic that you'll probably henceforth be known as an immigrant.
DeadyBearr
It's true that the United States incorporates other countries ideals to it's own but honestly where the fuck hasn't?
nycnewyork
Humans have been influenced by each other ever since the first dude walked out of a cave.
JosephMans
Hell almost all of Europe's political system was dominated by the decendents of Germanic tribes until the 20th century
zenunchucks
I think that's kind of the idea.
BeardKhan
That doesn't negate the argument, rather enforces it.
JonSnowNosNothing
Which makes it ok since everywhere else does it.
DeadyBearr
What are you trying to say? That the U.S. should have something completely different or that borrowing ideas isn't okay?
JonSnowNosNothing
I'm trying to say that "because everywhere else does it" is a cop out. its just an excuse to do what you really want. I'm not saying I (1/2)
JonSnowNosNothing
would do it different or not borrow ideas.At one time humans wiped their asses with their hands. Glad we decided to do something different.
jesalr
I don't think the issue is that the US embraces it's nationalism too much, just that any nationalism is pointless.
PerplexedSheep
I'd like to suggest watching the movie if you haven't. This set of gifs doesn't do it justice. YouTube "Zeitgeist:Moving Forward"
Caremono
I'll check this later, thanks!
DeadyBearr
I shall, thank you.
ARecoveringGayFish
Thank you. And aspects of its Society are actually entirely unique to the country at the time of its founding.
SondreTy
I would say you are missing the point. It's not the incorporation in itself, but the idea of grandeur and singularity of the final product
DeadyBearr
What would you suggest we do to change it?
SondreTy
Stop talking about when the values of America originated and rather come to terms with past fallacies and strive to improve, not defend.
DeadyBearr
Stop living on past "accomplishments" and go towards our future anew? Forgive me for not understanding, I've had (a lot of) whiskey.
SondreTy
Yeah, a lot of people talk about "american values", like they were founded on a day. In reality it's important to remember that 1/2
BrandonVasser
Saudi Arabia? Lol.
flyingsolow
It's hard when people talk about the "All American" look as blue eyes and blonde hair etc. Sounds a bit ignorant.
DeadyBearr
When I think of Americans I think of working class people. My dad was blonde, blue eyed taxi driver 1950s HS dropout so I'm probably biased.
flyingsolow
I'm talking about this kind of thing. http://d29ci68ykuu27r.cloudfront.net/product/Look-Inside/covers/18068311.jpg
DeadyBearr
Oh, I'm not even like that and I'm a California blonde. Media is different than everyday life but I think I get what you mean. Maybe?
noxdracoria
remember the outcry to the multicultural coke commercial?
flyingsolow
I don't think I saw the advert. :-S
noxdracoria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=443Vy3I0gJs and the news exploded with small minded chumps being all 'wtf - that's not american'
flyingsolow
Wow, really? On an off-note, Amazing Grace is an English song. I <3 Garrett's version with the African chorale. http://youtu.be/vpq_chvnBDg
CherokeePeopleCherokeeTribe
I'm blond haired and blue eyed and I'm only 2 generations removed from my cherokee ancestors.
flyingsolow
I could tell by your username. :P
CherokeePeopleCherokeeTribe
The username is also because I dig Paul Revere and the Raiders.
flyingsolow
Enlighten me in 140 characters or less? :)
Ohhhlookaunicorneatingasamurai
Atlantis
roonmian
North Korea.
HumblePie
Umm....they keep stealing Dennis Rodman from us.
Toasterpops
North Korea has, they just claim Kim invented it last thursday.
1212134
Sometimes I can't help but feel they became what they hate the most: Imperial Japan. God leader, etc.
ARecoveringGayFish
Stalin and Mao actually did in their own countries what is happening in NK long before the Kims came to power.
roonmian
Yeah... I wasn't completely serious there in case you couldn't tell.
ARecoveringGayFish
I honestly couldn't. My bad on that, no offense intended.
DeadyBearr
I agree even if the poster wasn't serious. I'm not sure if the upvotes are to be funny or it the people don't know but eh.
KnightoftheN64
You win this round, roonmian
DeadyBearr
N. Korea has still taken shit from other countries even if the public weren't informed. Communism aint new. Also just look at Kim Jong Ill
flassk
yeah, their high-tech gaming station for tourists has super nintendos!
AsheLake
Communism is not just any dictatorship. It's actually called the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, which it clearly isn't either.
MightyBroseidon
THE PEPOLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA IS AN IDEALISTIC, PERFECT, NOT HUNGRY NATION. WE ARE ABSOLUTELY FINE AND WELL FED. PLEASE MOVE ALONG WE FINE.
roonmian
Yeah... I wasn't completely serious there in case you couldn't tell.
NationalSecurityAgentC
Still, an excellent quip about "juche"
DeadyBearr
Oh, I'm sorry! I've been drinking so it's hard to determine sarcasm. Haha carry on, Love.
LtShed
I think the objections wasn't to the incorporation of other cultures, but to the idea of American Exceptionalism
THEREAINTNOWEEPININTHISHOME
Which is kind of bullshit, since the AE term meant that we were literally an exception in reference to how we were founded 1/2
THEREAINTNOWEEPININTHISHOME
And the term was just co-opted by conservatives to mean "fuck yeah America rules."
IDontSeeEnoughDarkTowerOnImgur
That's his point, that nationalism is arbitrary shit.
unijaw
Depends how you define nationalism patriotism just seems to be a weaker word with the same meaning to me.
balthcat
Same. Patriotism is just socially acceptable nationalism.
IFDhumbag
Other countries have much much much much much stronger nationalism than the USA.
IDontSeeEnoughDarkTowerOnImgur
As an American who's been abroad, I disagree. Anyway, that's beside the point, I didn't say nationalism was a good thing elsewhere.
MyNameIsWhatMyNameIsWhoMyNameIsHeManIHaveThePOWEROfGraySkull
your a tourist , so you aren't in a good place to judge if a nation is extremely nationalistic, you are only there for a short timr
IDontSeeEnoughDarkTowerOnImgur
I spent three years in Germany, I can tell you they know the dangers of nationalism too well.
IFDhumbag
I must ask to where though?
IDontSeeEnoughDarkTowerOnImgur
Most of Europe and the caribbean, grew up in Puerto Rico where nationalism is admittedly off the charts.
SurelyNotAWalrus
I think pride in ones individual culture can exist distinct of nationalism. I love Ireland for its distinct culture, but I do not believe
Renza0
North ireland or south ireland?
SurelyNotAWalrus
it is inherently better or destined for something. I can in-vision a future where we can have a global community that celebrates their own
SurelyNotAWalrus
and each others cultures.
balthcat
That's not pride. One can appreciate and celebrate something without having pride in it. Pride is toxic.
zaphod
so what's his solution? Easy to point out supposed errors, harder to provide the fix? (though I can guess at his 'fix'....snicker)
nwawr
He's the founder of the Venus project and one of his biggest points is trying to convince people like you who doubt it so immediately
dogegirl666
Actually this is the only reason this movement has won me over where others fail: for actually providing solutions
yuurg
I believe that humanity is doomed, and nothing we ever do will stop greed and stupidity. So I just worry about my own problems and (1/2)
yuurg
(2/2) hope the world doesn't end while I'm still alive.
HarroldNutt
There's even a documentary!! Who woulda thunk it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwJaLFMf7IA
IWRITEEVERYTHINGINCAPS
MORE SOCIALISM. GO IN THE DIRECTION OF THE NORDIC NATIONS.
jdbtl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNtyV0CXfzU
IWRITEEVERYTHINGINCAPS
NICE RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA. I LIVE IN A SCANDIAVIAN NATION. I KNOW IT WORKS. ;)
jdbtl
You clearly didn't watch it. The video hardly states that it doesn't work.
legoutilizationfornegatingcrisishierarchies
Exactly. I love the bitching and moaning from so many, but no ideas for fixes from any of them.
CptTightPants
You can't solve a problem unless you've first identified it.
legoutilizationfornegatingcrisishierarchies
Exactly the point. We've had all these people identifying it and no one offering solutions. That's called bitching where I come from.
NSFWTagger
Clearly you have seen only an excerpt of something. Perhaps you shouldn't assume based on such limited material. Look up Zeitgeist the docum
legoutilizationfornegatingcrisishierarchies
Clearly.
bwchronos
He does propose fixes. They are about as naive and ridiculous as this post would suggest, but he does propose them.
jackblade
There are no fixes. It's no more of a problem than it is a human condition.
OnyZ
It's a little hard to give potential solutions in a 140 character format.
SadPuppies
I'm going to go ahead and assume you haven't seen Zeitgeist.
krmanski
The "solution" zeitgeist offered was terrible. They dodged offering a solution and just made a hypothetical situation that was still crap.
WalterScottDempsey
Perhaps a labor-based society. Perhaps a society where the currency is backed by the labor of man. The society of the working man.
WalterScottDempsey
"He who does not work shall not eat" - Vladimir Lenin.
xTheMaestro
Labor based systems assume equal aptitude. Pricing based systems offer a more functional medium of exchange.
dogegirl666
The solution is a full system redesign allowing all people full access to resources and applying maximum new tech
bwchronos
No, that's the end goal. How would you accomplish that without taking away personal liberties/choice?
SolarPoweredKeyboard
There's no such thing as liberty when living in a society. I'm not fond of Communism, but I won't fool myself thinking that I live freely.
zenunchucks
STAR TREEEEEEEK
dogegirl666
moving forward from type zero civilization ;)
Styger
I like to tell my students that; we either go Star Trek or Star Wars, Coruscant style.
xTheMaestro
Frankly I'd rather be a scruffy looking nerf herder than a spiffy looking red shirt.
TheThingNoNotThatOne
What kind of downsides are there to that? Decreased desire to create new tech? Doesn't differentiate between the superior and the normal?
bwchronos
Don't forget personal liberties.
zenunchucks
This guy's solution is a resource based economy.
Bobothetalkingclown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource-based_economy
bhobbit123
what is that?
theo1170
I suggest you google The Venus Project and go on the site, there is a lot of detail to it.
LacquerHead
Communism
dammitcaboose
A system that will never work, nor be successfully implemented.
zenunchucks
Err... to be honest I'm not fully sure! I'm not the best person to answer. Just what I know from conversations about this guy.
bhobbit123
Ok, I read the explanation on the site. As I understand it, a resource economy is a command economy (like communism) w/o cash, and instead >
bhobbit123
> of govt. beaurocrats deciding how to distribute resources, optimal distribution of resources will be achieved through "the intelligent >
CreativeEgo
Google Project Venus for his solution. Its actually a great way to impress uneducated anti-vax & anti-OMGs hippies, that sort of crowd...
IWRITEEVERYTHINGINCAPS
I WOULD WATCH THE ZEITGEIST: ADDENDUM MOVIE FIRST. NOT THE ORIGINAL. HOWEVER, VENUS PROJECT IS NOT RELATED TO THEM ANYMORE.
bwchronos
The caps thing is kind of played out. You realize no one takes the opinion of a novelty account seriously right?
IWRITEEVERYTHINGINCAPS
THAT'S THEIR PROBLEM.
bwchronos
It doesn't seem like it since you are posting opinions and you presumably have some purpose for that other than self gratification.
yossarian5000sorryorr
Heh I think you meant anti-GMO but the thought of a group of anti-OMG hippies made me laugh
DrHark
Had never heard of this project. I was reading a bit their homepage, the ideas there remind me of Herbert Marcuse. I approve.
AGzuz
The idea is great, but how does he intend on implementing it? Seems like a pipe dream.
idiotn00b
Seeing this naive hyperbole from an uneducated old dude in gif form convinced me to smash global capitalism. Thanks OP!
SerialKitten666
Wow, you really are an idiot and a noob. Nice troll. I'm deciding you're trolling.
Wastyvez
This man is an idealist, that doesn't mean he's uneducated.
nycnewyork
xkr73 the type of nigga who jacks off looking in the mirror.
dogegirl666
This man is probably one of the most educated men I have ever had the pleasure of seeing in lecture
unijaw
Well he's self educated. Entirely! i'd love to see him in lecture
ImJustHereSoIDontGetFined
With the exception of his calculations on providing for every person's need, where is he wrong/where has he exaggerated?
xkr73
capitalists stepped up and told us that we were lazy for wanting medical treatment at fair prices, or education to not have to work in [3]
woozle
my +1 WILL CHANGE THE WORLD!
xkr73
explain to me what corporations like Walmart do to help their employees. Explain to me child labour, and who fought for it. Tell me how,[2]
CPatricoo
Tell me why you're no fun at parties.
IWRITEEVERYTHINGINCAPS
WHAT DOES AN IDIOTN00B KNOW?
myheadisonfire
If only people could really see it.
speakhands
How does this post have upvotes? Because you're more comfortable putting your head in the sand than educating yourself?
myheadisonfire
Apparently. I don't know why.
JeanLucPicard
Because some educated people aren't sensationalists.
speakhands
Sensationalist in its delivery, perhaps. But certainly not in its substance. And how the fuck is this in anyways "naive?"
Byrhtnoth
Uneducated? Dude, he was a futurist, an aircraft engineer, and the director of the Scientific Research Laboratories in Los Angeles.
Raguleader
How can you tell all that from a collection of uncited gifs?
Wastyvez
Maybe by doing some research? This isn't just some random old dude you know!
Raguleader
I wouldn't even know that from the stuff posted above without context.
Wastyvez
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco Help yourself.
xkr73
the mud? Tell me why, at the end of it all, Capitalists ride roughshod over people for profit but then convince everyone it's a "good thing"
roonmian
Capitalism is not a form of government or an economic system. Those would be parliamentary/presidential democracy and social market system.
xkr73
Someone REALLY needs to explain that to Americans, then. Because they treat capitalism like it's government, and are paying the price
roonmian
They have a social market system.It just not especially social and they're doing it badly.Capitalism is a facor in that though and has to be
xkr73
I would say, as an outside observer that's mostly unbiased, the US system is more driven by profit than anything else
MmeStraka
Very naive and uneducated, thank you for your completely objective analysis of something you've quite obviously studied longer than him.
Schmedes
And I'll bet Nicki Minaj has studied music longer than a lot of people as well.
FelipeRios
Nicki Minaj is pretty talented
zaphod
Yes the old dude is naive, e.g. was there a choice in WWII? 'Oh let Hitler have the world and we'll all eliminate poverty'? lolz
myheadisonfire
I believe capitalism is what sends most to war. In fact, greed is at the root of all wars.
zaphod
So Hitler was just a Capitalist out to make a buck...
myheadisonfire
I believe there were hidden agendas tied with money, as per every politician... ever.
xkr73
He actually kinda was. It was the only way of recovering Germany's economy. The Jews were a scapegoat, a common enemy
ReasonablyUnattractive
We don't even have true free-market capitalism in the US. We haven't for a long time. We have Crony-Capitalism. There's a big difference.
HereThereWhere
Well said!
pharoahjared
Do you still live in the glided age?
VodkaReindeer
It still brought us all these Internet companies, so why should we be unhappy?
CptTightPants
Oh god, why don't you tell me what the true scotsman is then?
xTheMaestro
Incorrect us of TS. Crony Capitalism is a system by which government crafts laws in such a way to benefit a few companies in a given 1/2
xTheMaestro
industry while creating barriers to entry to inhibit competition. A free market system requires the removal of such interests.
CptTightPants
if corporatism isn't the same as true capitalism, then it's the outcome of it.
xTheMaestro
Using that line of thinking I could say Stalinist communism is the ultimate outcome of true communism. Which is likewise false. 1
xTheMaestro
Corporatism is the result of policy makers taking a vested interest in the success or failure of individual market players.
xkr73
If capitalism is a good thing, explain to me the slaves. Explain to me the US Military-Industrial complex. Explain to me worker's rights[1]
RedPandaGranda
Capitalism is fine, but just like everything else, it can't go overboard. Right now I feel like the US needs to pull back and (1/2)
RedPandaGranda
rebalance. It doesn't have to change its entire system. (2/2)
tydil
You are welcome to go off an enjoy the success of every communist country out there. I hear North Korea has an amazing everthing.
xkr73
I currently enjoy living in a country with heavily-regulated capitalism. It's called England, and we have actual rights under law
CPatricoo
You shouldn't measure a countries worth based off how much free shit you get.
xkr73
I don't. I measure it based on how much the corporations can fuck me over.
CPatricoo
You do realize your country is working its ass off to roll back its government programs so long as the votes allow it.
xkr73
Yup. You do realise that the people are fighting tooth and nail against it, and winning?
manchurianwok
Ah yes, merry ole England. Where capitalism has never run amok or allowed the rape of other cultures.
xkr73
We learned from our mistakes and improved upon them; our example stands to the world. And as I stated, the monuments to that horrific(1/2)
xkr73
know exactly what it is to work 12hr days for a pittance, or live in tiny homes with no rights and no money. Which is why, when I get (3/4)
xkr73
time still stand tall, bloodstained and rotting. Our country is ruined by industrialism, and yet we managed to advance beyond that. we(2/3)
xkr73
the chance, I explain the evils of capitalism to those who would listen. It *NEEDS* regulation and control. History has proven this.
Ratawisker
I also would like to see how exactly he 'calculated' that resources spent on WW2 could have provided for every human
ThatWeirdBarefootGuy
It isn't really hard. GDP versus military spending times inflation minus cost of living minus world population
manchurianwok
Well there'd be a lot less Jews and Gypsies had we not "wasted" them on the war...
bwchronos
Lot less of them to feed.
Dilley122
do you understand wartime economics?
axelasdf
Also: please explain.
axelasdf
He asked to see the calculation so he can evaluate the model he used. Build people up. You don't need to discredit anons on the net.
DenimBeard
Every system has flaws, every system has corruption. Ours seems to work well for us, maybe not for others, but as a whole we are pretty good
MaliciousCuntWithoutAReason
Yeah, for those of us in Australia (at the moment), and those in Europe.
roonmian
"it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms" - Winston Churchill
ImJustHereSoIDontGetFined
Most of us commenting here are pretty good but there exist a large number who aren't and I would argue that it doesn't have to be that [1]
ImJustHereSoIDontGetFined
way. I also fear for the future. I mean, we live in a society where the scientific community overwhelmingly believes that climate [2]
ImJustHereSoIDontGetFined
change exists and is at least partially influenced by man and many are unwilling to do anything about it or even acknowledge it because [3]
ImJustHereSoIDontGetFined
profits high today. [5]
ImJustHereSoIDontGetFined
doing so may decrease profit. There are those with power who would quite literally ensure our extinction in the near future to keep [4]
dogegirl666
as a whole our planets resources are being depleted and wars rage on all over the world. we can do so much better
drpoopdoge
yes, much yes.
aselfdefeatingattitude
Well, I mean, except for the rising poverty and exploding cost of education...
DenimBeard
I absolutely agree with the exploding cost of education but raise you the question of what you are doing to help lower it.
kvotheaintgotnothinonme
And what is our benevolent system that 'works well' doing to solve it? Surely the powers that be are in prime position to affect change?
DenimBeard
Just because a system works well doesn't make it perfect.
ildolce
I would argue that just because not everyone is in a position of sufficient power to make the changes they want doesn't mean they can't (1/2
ildolce
Point out the flaws they see in the system they want to change
aselfdefeatingattitude
As a private citizen there's really not a lot I can do. Even elections are bought by the highest bidder 90% of the time.
myheadisonfire
Our middle class is disappearing. We're creating poor for no other reason than greed. That should be devastating.
DenimBeard
Source your data.
myheadisonfire
We are conditioned to believe America is the best. There is no helping people that wont help themselves.
myheadisonfire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
myheadisonfire
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/08/28/what-happened-to-the-middle-class.aspx
myheadisonfire
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2008/09/01/blum01.ART_ART_09-01-08_A7_GDB5OCN.html
kvotheaintgotnothinonme
umm open your eyes?
myheadisonfire
Now, I can give you all of this data and all of this information, but I can't convince people not to close their eyes an tune it out.
DenimBeard
Educational reform would go a long way to fixing these issues as would better/smarter welfare, child and mental health services. IMO
myheadisonfire
http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rep2/us-middle-class-rapidly-shrinking.html
furloughed
Your comment physically hurts me. Do you actually believe the system in which we live now is "pretty good"?
DenimBeard
Can it be better? Of course it can. Is it the worst thing ever? No. It's not.
DenimBeard
I have a roof over my head, can afford food and clean water, we obviously all have internet access, yeah. Pretty good.
Amonrob
A lot of Americans don't have those things but it works for "us"? Like animal farm worked for us pigs?
furloughed
YOU have a roof, food, clear water and the internet, but about 3/4 of the world doesn't. Try caring for someone else for a change
DenimBeard
I was saying our system was pretty good and it is. I was mentioning nothing about other systems.
myheadisonfire
I gave you plenty of data for disproving that our system is pretty good.
DenimBeard
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/01/astonishing-numbers-americas-poor-still-live-better-than-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/
Bobothetalkingclown
And as strange as it may seem, without the materialist society this post decries, you never would have heard about it.
KoltonSaurus62
Small world, eh?
BOMBOCOMBO
We would have never needed to hear about it in the first place.
quickhand
You don't know that.
Seth21
One step back and ten steps forward.
BreadAndButterFly
I believe most great innovations have come from those who were doing it for the love of their work, not for money and the creation of things
Bobothetalkingclown
But the spread and distribution of those innovations... the grunt work is done by those who need cash.
zpjon
dogegirl666
creators, artists, care-takers, engineers etc would and can all still exist without the money system.
NephCohen
because there's NO other way to run a society, amirite? tried 'em all in the 50's. stop thinking about it. no new ones to try ever.
Bobothetalkingclown
The best way to get consumer goods is to have a consumer society, and Imgur is a consumer good.
NephCohen
that's great news! that means we don't have to do any research at all in finding a better one!
zenunchucks
Innovation and mass-consumption do not an equalized equation make.
PuppiesStartedEveryWar
This doesn't really change the reality that our way of life is unsustainable and our answer to it is "keep advancing, keep innovating," ...
CharmingAndSexyGentlemanStarshipCaptain
Also the fact we refused to move to space to better our resource gathering.
PuppiesStartedEveryWar
... as if all we have to do is keep on trucking til we invent something magic to solve our problems. It's Christian eschatology repackaged.
PontificalUndulationsOfBlasphemicGesticulation
That doesn't seem strange at all. Just shows that a contradictory society can produce the prerequisites of its own downfall.
kemushi
correlation =/= causation
Raguleader
I'm not following. What's that in reply to?
BingleyBingleyBeep
@kemushi suggests that the materialistic society and our current position correlate, but that one did not lead to the other.
AsYouCanSeeTheresNothingToSee
Or: The technology and knowledge needed as a dependency to this post could have been acquired using other forms of government as well.
MrPredator
Yup. The dosage makes both the medicine and the poison.
PuppiesStartedEveryWar
(2) We still respect national lines drawn on paper centuries ago. Our social structures haven't changed. Nothing has fundamentally changed.
IamWizard
Ingenuity and materialism are not the same thing.
disgr4ce
Commodity computers, not ingenuity
Bobothetalkingclown
I'm not talking about the invention, I'm talking about the distribution.
NickDixon
Ingenuity doesn't make markets. Besides if innovation is hard fucking work (and it is) what's the incentive without materialists to sell to?
IamWizard
Consumerism =/= materialism.
NickDixon
You said that, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but that doesn't help me understand the difference. What's the distinction?
IamWizard
Consumerism and materialism still aren't the same. Consumerism is what makes markets - you can be a consumer and not a materialist.
NickDixon
What's your idea of the distinction then, and what makes consumerism preferable?
PuppiesStartedEveryWar
We have too much faith in technology and not enough commitment to it. For all our advances our way of life never really changes. (1)
alh840001
And the message would be unnecessary.
mythirdusernameis
but would there be something to hear about?
TheDevilMadeMeDoIt
Oh yeah, materialism is great. For things. I don't know about most people, though.
FatherLeroy
I believe his argument to your statement is that capitalism was a necessary step to get here but now archaic.
Imnotverygood
OR without the materialist society this post decries, we'd be reading it on Europa. Let's all speculate!
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
Materialism was not the fuel for innovation. The reason most of the tech was researched was not for consumers, it's been adopted/adapted.1/2
Bobothetalkingclown
But it's the reason you're reading it now. "Consumerism" is also a means of distribution of goods that people want, like, say, Imgur?
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
from highly specialized technology that became easier to manufacture/understand and then sold to a consumer.
zenunchucks
However it can't be ignored that the injection of funds from capitalist investors are a large factor in lowering product manufacturing costs
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
Yes, but they did not fuel this technology, scientific endeavour is what looks to improve. Capitalism only looks to sell it, not advance it.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
Science take advantage of that by using the money made to progress. They way money is supposed be spent.
zenunchucks
Yeah man. The problem comes in when ONLY things that profit are funded... some great things yield no profit, and thus go neglected.
zenunchucks
What we need is an effective system of assigning resources/capital towards products of value to society...
zenunchucks
...and at present I have yet to see a more effective system than an open marketplace with competing investors etc.
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
Question, why was the highly specialized technology developed? Why was it sold to a mas audience? The answers there: materialism.
zenunchucks
Specialized technology is usually developed in pure research labs. However the ones that make it to market/mass audience are the ones >>>
zenunchucks
>>> that show potential for high profits, thereby gaining massive capital injections from capitalist investors.
eburg
Most highly specialized technology is developed for military and government use long before consumers get it. Otherwise i agree with you.
thiscannotpossiblygowrong
Most? Some certainly, but it also depends on the time frame (this was more true in the 50s-80s than before or today).
PaperCl1p
This used to be true, it no longer is. The consumer market is worth so much more than a single government contract.