OhDaeSuWithAHammer
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Aug 10, 2016 9:57 PM
OhDaeSuWithAHammer
146706
5753
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8serene8
Holy shit, fucking, THIS! This is one smart man. I once also tried to follow the God path. It brought nothing but shit into my world.
MadHakon
Growing up religious, I felt silly trying to maintain those beliefs. They are not sensible whatsoever. As an atheist I am more content.
gormtheoldthesleepyofdenmark
The wonder of the universe feels bigger than spirituality to me. I have no interest in an afterlife, it sounds like a bad sequel to me.
destinoz
Seeing God as described would be realizing life as we know it is merely a gestation period. It would change what's important here entirely.
iputthefiresout
Oh, is it that time of the month for this repost?
JetMarks
Haven't seen this one in awhile actually and I check daily. But you got the few points you were aiming for so good job, friend.
saltyslug
These subtitles are a mess
vexxed14
It all becomes easier to grasp when you stop looking for an explanation that makes humanity better than everything else around us
Munchman347
Just think what this world would be like if God had lost the war in Heaven, Cancer, war, rape, greed, earthquakes, mudslides, AIDS, Zika...
cunninlinguist
I see what you did there
itsybitsyspider
I'm just here for the comments.
Whatwhatsomethingbutt
Paraphrasing CS Lewis:What would satisfy us is a grandfather in heaven who watchs us enjoy ourselves, not a father to teach us tough lessons
judgemasterven
Yeah... he's omnipotent. He could have just made us with the lessons preinstalled.
Thunderbush
My personal favorite, "god works in mysterious ways."
463527818
Such as crippling young children because of their 'original sin'? He can shove his 'mysterious ways' up his arse for all I care, thanks.
C4Monkey3
Do you have a source for this? I'm curious to know where it came from.
kasaku
As an atheist, it really is just about not believing in a god. Really don't care about the theology part of it.
ohthehoomanatee
As another atheist, the theology part is what made me change my mind.
kasaku
I've always been atheist, so there was no changing my mind involved.
mmcg5
The fingermen will get him for this, won't be so funny then "will it funnyman"
jump4jesus
Prophet
EzraFell
Radis
SixThreeSixxxer
Bravo.
GregPikitis666
In view, a humble vaudevillian victim, cast vicariously by the vicissitudes of fate
SirHakase
veteran* no ?
GregPikitis666
Shhhhh
theonewhoknots
I was secretly hoping for this in the back of my mind. Thank you. I will sleep in peace tonight.
BingBingBingalingalong
And then there are the people who, if God exists, are incensed that he didn't make life easy for them. Mortal entitlement
StitchGuerra
Then the next time a parent abuses their chldren, acuse the children of moral entitlement if they cry, then you would at least be congruent
britishkid
This is far beyond tough love. This world has such horror and suffering, that this omnipotent God allows it to be so and is thus also evil
SAWhowhatnow
Why shouldn't we be entitled to a life without needless suffering?
AlCo94
Can such a world be logically compatible with free will?
SAWhowhatnow
Why wouldn't it be? How does the non-existence of things like leukemia negate free will (assuming it does exist)?
AlCo94
I was only thinking of moral evil for this suggestion, if you and I occupy the same space, and I have the free will to move solid objects 1/
AlCo94
..in the shared space then I can hit you with a solid object. Negating the possibility of a leprosy like condition in which you cannot 2/
AlCo94
...get fees back from your CNS that harm is being done to your bodily tissues, ie that you can experience pain, I have the ability to hurt u
SAWhowhatnow
Ok, if I stop you from attempting to harm me by restraining you have I negated your free will?
Whatwhatsomethingbutt
Most theists don't believe God created us simply for happiness in this life but for eternal happiness with him in the next. 1/2
Whatwhatsomethingbutt
2/2 So his omnibenevolence should be judged neither by our limited human standards of goodness nor by what happens in this world alone.
ImaginarySuccess
I don't even live my life thinking about tomorrow, why would I think about my next life... especially if there's no proof of one?
judgemasterven
It should. Otherwise why follow him? Faith is meaningless to reality. There is no proof of him. I could follow a benevolent being.
thebaker4
Well put. Gotta love Clive Staples!
Phayzzer
http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aeNNq5q_700b.jpg
lacydawnn
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. 1/2
AlCo94
Can it be demonstrated that God cannot have sufficient moral reason to permit some evils to be exist?
lacydawnn
I'm gonna go with no given that I don't believe in God. I guess we can ask him and see what he says though.
AlCo94
Sorry, what I meant is, can a hypothetical deity with an all loving and all powerful nature be shown to be logically inconsistent with evil
lacydawnn
I see. Still no. If he's all knowing all powerful. He knows and has the power to change it. If he doesn't know then he's not all knowing
lacydawnn
If he knows and can't change it then he's not all powerful. If he is all powerful and all knowing and allows it to happen he's evil.
ThunderChief00
Why would God prevent evil? He created it for a reason.
judgemasterven
Then he is malevolent for creating evil. Obviously.
lacydawnn
But why? Just for shits and giggles? What reasoning did God have for thinking it was a good idea to let children be raped and murdered? 1/2
lacydawnn
God is supposed to be the father. As a mother I would do everything in my power to prevent my child from being harmed. That's the difference
lacydawnn
If he cared he would prevent it, if he doesn't prevent it is it that he wont or he just can't? Doesn't seem like much of a God to me.
ThunderChief00
The important part here is that you agree he created evil. Many Christians don't like to hear that.
lacydawnn
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? -Epicurus 2/2
TheGhostOfWadeBoggs
Found the atheist
cunninlinguist
we are getting easier to find every day :)
thebaker4
AKA "The problem of pain." As a Christian, I honestly struggle a lot with this. I don't pretend to understand it all.
C4Monkey3
I've actually spoken to my priest about this, and he told me that suffering is a result of sin. There was no suffering before original sin
thebaker4
Yeah but it is a bit of a stretch to say that sin causes natural disasters and other non-human-caused suffering.
C4Monkey3
Also, I realize this reasoning would not satisfy any non-believer, but that's all I know.
C4Monkey3
I am willing to ask my priest more about what anyone wants to know.
thebaker4
I am consistently frustrated by the lack of harmony that comes with trying to understand God and the universe. Full stop.
Maraak
It's called cognitive dissonance...
cunninlinguist
Perfectly understandable, same as with some abstract art, it takes imagination, and then you are still not sure, problem is initial bias
thebaker4
If anyone in this thread cares any further about what I think, reply. It can be a daily struggle, tbh.
Whatwhatsomethingbutt
Many great Christian thinkers struggle with it too. Pope JPII offered some good insight. There's still no perfect answer.
mahabats
Have you ever heard of a website called everystudent.com? Some solid stuff in there about this stuff, otherwise you could DM me to talk more
CantonahM8
Stephen Fry once commented that sexual abuse victims who pity themselves should "grow up." He's just as flawed as everyone else
Thefallenhorde
What does self pity earn you other than crippling depression? I'd agree with him
axelsegen
He was talking about self pity though. Grown ups deal with their problems, is what he said.
GadenKerensky
A bad choice of words, I agree, but he didn't mean 'just deal with it', he meant 'deal with it, don't let it fester. Be proactive and move.'
StitchGuerra
It was more complicated than that, he didnt choose the best words to make his point which was about censorship.
StitchGuerra
and even then, that doesnt invalidate what he said here. He never said he was a paragon of virtue. God on the other hand, supossedly did.
CantonahM8
Ah right, my bad then. I'd still argue against the "omg Stephen Fry is a genius <3." But he did do cocaine in Buckingham palace so fair play
ICantThinkOfAU
It's us and our worshipping ways that are doing that though, Fry simply behaved a certain way, but it's us who assigned him his status
BunnyGoesHopHop
As a victim of sexual abuse as a young child, I agree. If you sit and wallow in self pity you'll never heal. You'll just pick at the wound 1
BunnyGoesHopHop
and it will keep bleeding till it turns into a scar. You don't have to forgive your abuser, but you have to work to get over the hump 2
BunnyGoesHopHop
or it controls your life. There are many victims that become professional victims and milk it for attention. That right that drives me crazy
BunnyGoesHopHop
There not that*
thebaker4
Ad hominem?
CantonahM8
I'm not a religious man, not particularly interested in the debate in the comments, I just think he's a bit of an arsehole
thebaker4
What? How dare you choose to talk about anything besides atheism and Christianity! My bad.
Fierfly
Is your opinion of him just from the abuse comments or do you just not like him in general?
CantonahM8
Just in general
FilthyRedmond
I like to imagine that when you die, you go to YOUR perfect world.
virtuacor
same here
MrAgnosticman
Pizza?
takichandler
By the milkshake pool on the lesbian cloud!
ChrisCkross
Cute
ChrisCkross
Imagine the perfect world then that the rapists and pedophiles get...
FilthyRedmond
http://i.giphy.com/xyzKimfJ9FaH6.gif
foxmichaels
I love this guy, and I'm not even British.
jattou
I love Stephen Fry, and I'm not even gay!
TheShogunMustGoOn
Then give Christopher Hitchens a listen ????
ItsJustMeDave
I love Imgur, and I'm not even potato.
zeebadz10
Me neither, but why should that matter in the first place?
AnonresponsivE
He's a citizen of earth.
Kevlaa
He's British? I feel so proud
macacococoa
Do you live on the moon?
Kevlaa
No I live in Britain
cjpoet
The god of the old and new testaments is not all-loving and beneficent. It is parochial and mean, churlish and malignant. It is evil.
FreebooterFox
RealNamesAreNotGreatUsernames
From the Israelites' perspective, it may have seemed so, but if you had to deal with people as pig-brained as they were at times, (1/?)
RealNamesAreNotGreatUsernames
you'd probably come off as being a little hostile every now and then. Just for clarification, have you read the OT? (2/2)
cjpoet
I was a fundamentalist christian for over 20 years. I've read the bible from cover to cover, studied its, taught parts of it.
RealNamesAreNotGreatUsernames
So you know. (As much as I enjoy this, I've given over eighty comments and several hours to this post, so I'm done here.)
AlCo94
But on what basis can we make an objective moral assessment of the character of God?
cjpoet
As we judge everything: by the works we see or the record he/she/it leaves behind.
AlCo94
sorry, what i meant was, against what objective moral standard can we measure him? our own subjective standards which differ person2person?
cjpoet
"He" doesn't really exist. We judge those who adore "him."
AlCo94
That's an interesting discussion, but I was engaged in this one based on the premise "if God exists then" that you seem to have abandoned
AlCo94
Im curious, would you agree that if a perfect all loving God exists (not of any in particular) that their sense of morality/justice would 1/
AlCo94
..be higher/better/different to mine or yours (anyone's). If there's if perfect and mine is not, surely we must disagree on some things?
AlCo94
and in those cases, i (anyone who disagrees) must be wrong? would be interested in your thoughts/alternative perspective.
cjpoet
It would be as different from ours as ours is from the bugs we squash every day. The difference is, we don't promise shit to the bugs.
AlCo94
More so I would think, in the same way a big number differs more from infinity than it does a tiny number, also I meant no God in particular
demigod123456
Or indifferent
gormtheoldthesleepyofdenmark
Your comment reminded me of the religion in "Sirens of Titan" by Vonnegut. The Church of God the Utterly Indifferent.
cjpoet
In a god, is there a difference?
demigod123456
Yes, one explanation is God causes the suffering. The other is that he won't stop humans from destroying each other or natural disasters.
cjpoet
An indifferent god who does nothing about suffering but could, is the equivalent of an evil god who causes suffering.
Ghostgamer8
2 indifferent to do them. Billionaires could end poverty but they don't. Does that make them evil? I view evil as seeking to cause harm.
Ghostgamer8
I know I'm probably going to get downvoted and I know this is a bad comparison but people could do lots of things to help others but are1
ashipthatshipsshippingships
I remember that one time in the old testaments when kids were making fun of a prophet, and God sent a she- bear to murder them all. Petty.
RealNamesAreNotGreatUsernames
One interpretation puts them around the age of young adulthood. Not necessarily children. And prophet mockery is no small potatoes.
cjpoet
Yea, cuz he was bald/. And remember when jesus cursed a fig tree cus it didn't have figs out of season. Seasons "he"invented?
failphins2
oh you mean so that he could instruct his apostles with a parable? Yeah, the life of that tree was worth more than the lesson
cjpoet
Fuck parables. Dude got pissed cuz he couldn't get a fig.
failphins2
You're incredibly ignorant
tomascco
Eskimo: If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell? Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.' Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'
RegulatorRWF
Also not true, at least in Christianity. Everyone is accountable, hence why there are so many outreach activities.
AlCo94
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
shawnthor
Saved from what?
AlCo94
Slavery to sin; the just consequences of our actions; unfulfilled life; eternal separation from God, are some of the major ones
Daloth
Saved from the punishment that he gave you if you don't believe in him.
DreamWeavr
Saved from what He will do to you if you don't accept him, obviously.
shawnthor
So like a mob boss then. Offering protection from himself and his goon squad. Got it.
AndrewMcWhinney
I think it's because then the Eskimo would end up in purgatory until the end of times, instead of going to hell/heaven.
greenlandic
Indeed, because we wouldn't be baptised.
Zebulin
Priest: "Because if I didn't I would go to hell."
ArdentSlacker
That... is how chain letters work.
britishkid
This is why many wars are fought
ThunderChief00
Wouldn't it be more brave and honorable to sacrifice your own soul to save another? Christians can be selfish as long as they go to heaven.
JudgementalMan
No. You do God's will, that is all. God's will is that the Eskimo be taught, so he is taught. (That's their reasoning)
SomeGuyFromTheMostIsolatedishCityOnEarth
Yes it would be, and yes they can be. But in their bible apparently it's their responsibility to share the word with everyone.
Enoan
I hear it's a Good book, worth a read.
SomeGuyFromTheMostIsolatedishCityOnEarth
I've read a couple books, Ecclesiastes was an interesting one for sure
clumpybum
But in Christianity, ignorance is no excuse. Even the most righteous of nonbelievers can't get into heaven.
RealNamesAreNotGreatUsernames
Not all Christianity. The LDS doctrine says that being a nonbeliever in this life doesn't disqualify you from a full reward in the next. (1/
thehammster
Mormons aren't Christians
RealNamesAreNotGreatUsernames
Have you asked a Mormon if they believe in Christ? Whose definition of Christian are you using?
Imsickofdisshit
It comes down to theological differences about the nature of Christ and many other large things. Mormons are very different in many ways.
thehammster
Muslims also believe in Christ what differentiates a Mormon from a Christian and a Christian from a Jew for that matter is the belief in 1/?
RealNamesAreNotGreatUsernames
There are still things that need to happen, but the way is prepared for those who weren't able to accept the gospel in this life. (2/2)
noptic
Lutheran teaching: Jesus died to free us from sin, so we ALL go to heaven. Do not act good because you are afraid, but out of gratitude
Highlander8795
What about the souls of children who die in child birth, they are excluded too?
shawnthor
What about puppies and kittens. I don't want to be in a heaven without all my past fur friends.
Catfactory
Many denominations believe in salvation through deeds rather than through faith. Don't paint with too big a brush there mate.
mahabats
any church preaching in salvation through deeds is either ignorant of or lying about the Bible check out Ephesians 2:8,9
SomeGuyFromTheMostIsolatedishCityOnEarth
Yeah sorry but if you're talking about groups like Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses then youre actually wrong here. 1/2
SomeGuyFromTheMostIsolatedishCityOnEarth
From my limited readings of their bible Christians believe that Christ is all you need, saying you need more is incorrect 2/2
llamamushroom
I've heard of that, but it doesn't make much sense to me - JC said nobody comes to Father except through him. So the Eskimo does go to hell
Irishda
Someone wrote that JC said, which may or may not have been twisted for political purposes as it runs counter to his message and ideals*
Catfactory
JC said a lot of things, and some read that line as identifying 'him' with his ethical code/what he stood for.
JamesBondMegacorn
Well his ethical code was absolute perfection on all fronts. Which is impossible
CycloneSP
then they are completely overlooking the whole concept of ritualistic sacrifice, how he acted out said sacrifice in order to prevent more.
puppup124
I'm not sure what I believe. I feel I believe there's something but maybe not as we perceive it. Maybe we focus on being good to others.
username063
Right there with you. I feel deep down that I believe in something bigger than us, not sure what. Or why whatever it was couldn't have 1/2
username063
Created a big bang or evolution or whatever. I just really have no clue about it all, just stumbling through life trying to be a good human.
Fierfly
Honestly, my WANT to believe in a god (I don't actually), stems purely from the fact that I find it difficult to accept that this is all 1/2
Fierfly
we get. That there's nothing afterwards. Its irrational fear of death and the unknown, even though I know I won't care when I'm dead 2/2
username063
Also, +1 because I call every dog I see pup pup.
puppup124
ViktorKovacs
It's impossible for me to understand that the universe was around infinitely. No beginning. I literally cannot comprehend something with 1/2
ViktorKovacs
no beginning at all. So I can definitely say I think there is something out there, just not what religion tells us.
potatiskatt
Same. It feels like there's SOMETHING, but maybe I just want there to be something because that's comforting? I don't know. I really don't.
Klaustrix
I believe in my faith, just not organised faith.
Highlander8795
I am very much a scientist, but I still believe there might have been a creator, sentient or not something caused reality to exist.
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vexxed14
The issue for me is that we believe we are a larger part of the universe than we really are. There is bigger, beyond our minds to comprehend
puppup124
Yea that's how I feel. We are miniscule compared to everything around us. I also feel honored the opportunity to be alive because of the 1)
puppup124
Way everything worked out for Earth. We were created with the right circumstances to live and evolve. I wish others could be better to 2)
puppup124
One and other and appreciate what we have. I can't change people but I can control how I interact with others. So there's that. 3)
Plagii
Stephen Fry has the wit and humor and Britishness of Ricky Gervais, but without the cringiness. win win
IronicUsername
I like Fry but Gervais has very little wit and humor. I'll never understand how he got a career in comedy.
Tehadam
Doing unfunny Cell Phone Network commercials
GeneralCaptainCrunch
I don't think its that Ricky is CRINGEY, its just that he's a bit of a brute with his words. He has no eloquence.
Moveoutofthedesert
Ricky Gervais laughs at his own jokes - which aren't even jokes, they're just slightly witty observations.
tdstar
Fry is Oscar Wilde reincarnated...
DreamCatcher01
I agree 100%. I cannot stand Ricky Gervais.
IronicUsername
I've always wondered why so few religions seem to consider in the possibility of an imperfect god.
IceVamp
Eh, Alot of religions have that. Åsatrua, Greeks, Romans, Hindus, the myriad of shamanistic religions like the Sapmi.
AlCo94
Or that people have an imperfect view of perfect justice or objective moral good.
vexxed14
It's a harder sell. Pantheon type religions generally grasp it though
GadenKerensky
I mean, in Greece, everyone knew the Gods weren't perfect, they just wouldn't say so because they wouldn't like being smited out of spite.
Fierfly
It works because people believe god is perfect, and that man was made in it's image, thus people must be close to perfect. Bullshit, really
TheShogunMustGoOn
https://onsizzle.com/i/did-you-know-there-are-roughly-4-200-religions-today
mahabats
I think all non-abrahamic religions do believe that
SomeGuyFromTheMostIsolatedishCityOnEarth
That's a great point actually, for all we know maybe he was just a lonely and powerful being who wanted company?
ddpv
Same as orphans imagine a perfect set of parents.
bufferkiller
The day I let go of faith and admitted I didn't believe,was the 1st time I ever felt anything close to what I was told being saved was like.
CocktailGaming
When I was in high school I was a real prick of an Atheist. Now as I've grown up, I've come to appreciate spiritualism in a new way (1/2)
CocktailGaming
I'm still don't believe in God or spirits doe... I just appreciate symbolic gestures and traditions more (2/2)
JamBarn
So you felt saved without faith? I think you just mean you felt relief.
bufferkiller
I didn't say that.I said what I felt was the closest to what people who describe being saved tell me it is like. But, in a sense, yes I did.
bufferkiller
It was like I had been saved from religion. Saved from a life of servitude and unwarranted guilt. From ignorance and bigotry.
NotJayForSerious
I think you misread the comment.
JamBarn
No, I just prefer accuracy.
WhoIsTheDodie
Once my kids were born i got this sudden realization that i cant just hope and pray for a better world for them.
szepasszony
Agreed. I always felt there was something wrong with me (pre-internet days), I had no idea I was the only one who just couldn't believe.
MrBananaBeak
Me fucking too.
aspartameheadache
Amen brother.
SlightlyFabricated
I respect your belief but I hope to live in such a way that someone in your position can see the value of God.
NotJayForSerious
Would you ever look at an atheist and see the value in nonbelief?
SlightlyFabricated
Yes, actually. I grew up an atheist and was at least agnostic until my 20s. I learned a lot about history and science and biology, all 1/?
SlightlyFabricated
Of which I value highly. I've joked that I'd like to get two degrees, one in Christian theology and one in evolutionary biology. 2/?
SlightlyFabricated
I think there's sometimes a pride with - I'll just say it - Christians, who think they have all the answers and don't open themselves 3/?
SlightlyFabricated
One more thing. While not all criticism from an atheist is valid (Mr. Fry, for example, IMO), sometimes it takes an atheist to point out 1/?
SlightlyFabricated
How un-Christlike a Christian is being. Whether the Christian listens and has a change of heart is another story. 2/2
EducatedKitten
Was easy for me. After I read the Bible, I found it pretty hard to reconcile some of the stuff in there with a God that loves everybody.
bufferkiller
The hard part was accepting that I could no longer reconcile those things. Admitting that my core belief system was wrong.
overcookedchickennugget
I wish I could upvote you more than once.
HailTheFSM
Wow, that's really profound.
bufferkiller
It felt that way. Everything really was clearer from then on. The world became a great deal brighter and more pleasant to exist in that day.
HailTheFSM
I'm thankful I wasn't raised to believe in any gods but that's a great experience for you. Congrats!
bufferkiller
Thank you. It was roughly 13 years ago now.
ruferto
i was around 10 or 11 when i got the courage to tell my parents i didnt believe in a god. their only concern was that i was able to explain
Foxsayy
I wish more people were like this.
Okiegoon
How so? Honest question.
bufferkiller
It felt like a weight was lifted off of me. I felt a joy I'd never known before. The world lit up in a way that scared and inspired me. 1/?
bufferkiller
People everywhere appeared more beautiful. I went from thinking I didn't negatively judge people, to actually not negatively judging them2/?
bufferkiller
I suddenly wanted to learn more than I ever had before. My mind opened up. My heart lightened. My insides smiled. I felt wonderful. 3/?
bufferkiller
I was suddenly okay with not knowing answers and with being wrong. Being right stopped being important, and being correct took its place.4/4
ashipthatshipsshippingships
I'm a Christian, and the most liberating thing that I ever went through was acknowledging that I would never have all of the answers.
Galactasaur
To me that sounds more like wanting to hold on to your faith with no good reason. At least thats what i did when i said things like that.
MrAgnosticman
That's what I, as an atheist believes, too. However the similarities end there if someone uses god as an explanation.
hardytardigrade
I think that's really the only way to deal with glaring logical inconsistencies.
JamesBondMegacorn
There are a couple of those for evolution too
hardytardigrade
Flaws in one system don't automatically provide evidence for another. But I don't know of any accepted yet illogical beliefs in evolution.
mahabats
Mind if I ask which glaring inconsistencies you think are present in Christianity?
tantricpooper
I WISH I could have faith. I which I could convince myself that some part of us exists after death. It's just not plausible to me.
SomeGuyFromTheMostIsolatedishCityOnEarth
I know what you mean, it's pretty easy to consider the math when you look at our planet. I mean our conditions such as position in the 1/?
SomeGuyFromTheMostIsolatedishCityOnEarth
Solar system, the size of the planet itself, the size of our moon, mathematically a 1:1x10^9999... Chance, we just happen to be that 2/?
SomeGuyFromTheMostIsolatedishCityOnEarth
That 1 in the universe with our conditions for life, maybe there's other life maybe there's not but either way I get why it's a struggle.
AmaIthea
I believe in reincarbonation. My ashes(star stuff/dust) will be converted to diamond.
Highlander8795
You can do more with your life knowing that's all there is than hoping for something of consequence after it.
tantricpooper
To me, religion is like selling all your worldly possessions to pay for lottery tickets.
bufferkiller
I used to wish this, but I also used to wish I could enjoy alcohol again after I stopped being able to enjoy it. Now I'm thankful I can't.
bufferkiller
To clarify: About 4.5 years ago my body started rejecting alcohol like spoiled milk, and I've no clue why. I wasn't a heavy drinker.
AlCo94
I like to think there are Good reasons to believe it, my faith involves trusting what I have good reason to believe is true.
tantricpooper
What good reason do you have to believe though? If you knew nothing of religion and the bible was published today, would you believe it?
AlCo94
Come to believe it, but the idea of the Bible being published today, is so far removed from the Wat I have faith in, if I did believe it 3/
AlCo94
I could hardly compare it to what I believe now.4/
AlCo94
If I came from a backroom where I was not exposed to any form of Christianity until able to reason for myself, I like to think I would 2/
AlCo94
Well I think I would be a theist based on nature/science/philosophical reasoning, I find the moral&cosmological arguments quite compelling1/
tantricpooper
I believe that the people who wrote the bible believed what they wrote was true, but true to the best of their understanding of the world.
tantricpooper
We as a species were pretty dumb up until like 100 years ago. Now multiply that by 30 and that's how dumb we were when it was written.
Shadowstrikerx10
I just kinda sat down in bed one night and accepted my belief that when you die, you completely cease to exist.
ShadyDirewolf
This thought terrifies me constantly. It's a sort of paralyzingly fear for me and I hate it
NotJayForSerious
Remember that time before you were born? It's like that.
Shadowstrikerx10
My perspective is that, when im dead, will i know im dead? No. Which means i wont be able to care that im dead.
ShadyDirewolf
I don't want my consciousness to end is my problem. To not be able to feel, to remember, or to think.
ShadyDirewolf
I can see how you think though, and I do share part of that sentiment. It's just a wishy-washy thing between "when it happens, it happens"/1
ShadyDirewolf
And "whoa wait I like living I don't wanna stop it" /2
memento765
you don't know that. we don't know what was before and we don't know what's after. our memory has been erased
HEXADECIMAL
I believe God is a computer, it explains why He is so rigid in setting things up and all the rules and even the cruelty.
cjpoet
Amen! I've become a much better human being since I realized there is no god. It took me 3+ decades, but I did it. It was scary...
bufferkiller
One of the hardest things I've ever done as someone from the deep south. Seems so simple and obvious now, but was really fucking hard.
JamBarn
Southern religion is apostacy for the most part, IMO. Shit makes people crazy.
cjpoet
I agonized. I talked to pastors and "christian" therapists. I had a medical dr tell me I needed to get into the word to cure my depression.
bufferkiller
That's fucked up. Seriously fucked up.
JackCorus
"Can I go see a Chiropractor about my back pain?" "Pray, and if it's GOD'S will you will heal." I FUCKING BELIEVED THIS!!!!!
zeebadz10
You shouldn't blame yourselves for it. Being told something since birth and believing it is only logical.
ThisIsSteel
To each their own. I had the opposite effect. I was atheist for the first half of my life, and later found a path in faith.
goodguykharn
Contrary to the nicer atheist above, I'm an atheist and will be downvoting your comment because other people's opinions are stupid
ThisIsSteel
Sure, do whatever you want.
Steinmasten
I would like to know what that feels like. I'm trying to understand a person in a similar situation, it seems difficult from my POV. Do PM.
ThatGuyWithAllTheWoWTattoos
.
ThisIsSteel
PM has begun. I'll try to answer your questions.
Foxsayy
Are you trying to understand what it's like to be some Christian or what it's like to become atheist?
Listentomeyoudumbfuck
I am an atheist, but upvote for respecting the beliefs of others
poochyena
Thats total BS. You would not say that if he said. "Praise hitler"
Listentomeyoudumbfuck
He didn't though
ThisIsSteel
Thanks. And I agree, we need more respect for others in this world.
JesusCrossProduct
I'm an agnostic, and I'm not sure what to do.
SirFigNewton
I am a potato, doomed to fry.
Katosen
Just be a good person, if not for your religious beliefs, then because you aren't a black hearted fool.
JesusCrossProduct
Can I be an evil dark overlord anyway? Black hearted fool sounds pretty rad, to be honest.
JamBarn
Add to favorites.
sbzleon
I'm vegan but at this moment I have my doubts
Dayrest
I've seen this before, and I like it, but I'm really curious about what the other guy responded with.
Beelsebooob
"That sure is the longest answer to that question that I ever got in this series" [fry laughs]
brianthefly
Doing God's work s... I mean... Man's work, yes, yes.
Dubrtd
Gay Byrne might be religious, he is not THAT stupid to get further into that with someone like Fry
BrawnyMan312
Whatever it is, consider who edited it.
AlabasterCrashesDown
The guy didn't have a response. I've seen it.
panamakid
SPANISH INQUISITION
memento765
the devil edited it to make God look bad /s
Terpsichore
If you want to know, you can always just watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-d4otHE-YI
dand139
That video does not have much more of the interview...
UndeadRaziel7
Future me, watch this
windragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo watch this version, no patronizing speech at the end
ericdidit
Future me, me too
windragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo or here, where there are other clips from the same interview
LordSatanHimself
.
sorryNshit
Ugh. The guy commenting is awful
carebearsandstares
A lot of philosophers have already answered this question, Its Free Will with humans, and in Nature just design/reason/efficiency.
Irishda
Because goodness without evil to test it is not goodness at all and a life of comfort is a life without charity or giving would be my answer
fishcakes23
Fry would have ripped into that nonsense as well. If anything that is more proof against God than for
HermanManly
And goodness for the sake of going to heaven is not goodness either
Baconthief1994
Alright so the reason kids get bone cancer so I can appreciate the good about being around my family, got it
Irishda
Suppose there is a God and an afterlife. What would death be to the deathless but a transition? (1/2)
Irishda
What would suffering, even for years, be in the face of eternal bliss but a passing moment
JessicaFappit
I don't agree with your answer but it was well put. It's not fair that you're getting down voted for an alternate view point.
fishcakes23
He's getting down voted for talking nonsense
JessicaFappit
And you got downvoted for calling someone elses interpretation of the world nonsense. Being nice is free. If you dont agree leave it at that
fishcakes23
No, look around a major problem in a global society is religion. Pseudo philosophical crap like this needs to be called out.
Megameatloaf
That is a nothing more then a terrible excuse excuse to justify the horrors that exist within the world.
Irishda
Can't have heroes to laud unless they have dragons to slay. God can hardly be blamed if man created a lot of those dragons ourselves
Megameatloaf
I instantly regret replying to your comment. You are to far gone to even bother having a conversation with.
Irishda
Too*. So did I get it wrong or do we blame God for not solving our fucked up problems with empathy?
JessicaFappit
Its not a terrible excuse. We know light because we know its opposite is dark. I dont agree with him, but don't be a bully. It was well put.
Megameatloaf
I never intended my remark as a personal attack. I agree though, its a poetic statement. But that doesn't lend it any extra truth.
JessicaFappit
Glad we're in agreeance there. My well downvoted point was that singling him out and calling his idea terrible is maybe not very nice.
Irishda
Funny too how that's usually the most in-depth answer I get in terms of logical philosophical counterarguments
TheDejectedEntourage
Try actually presenting some decent logic and maybe you'll receive better answers
Irishda
What's the problem with the logic
Win1forthegifer
This will surely be downvoted but with the amount of crap we do to ourselves it's not much of a surprise theres cancer. Vast changes to ->
Win1forthegifer
->both our diet and environment as well as limiting our partners because of underlying favoritism to sameness of appearance. Parents grossly
Win1forthegifer
Underestimating how their health will affect their kids and grandkids. There's a lot of bad stuff in the world but I wouldn't start pointing
Win1forthegifer
Fingers at God fate aliens etc until we take a hard look at ourselves and take responsibility for our own actions. The structures of the ->
Win1forthegifer
Universe were setup long before we were around. We've only been playing the game as we see fit. Instead of bickering over trivial matters it
smarmageddon
God: "Here, go and use this Free Will. ...No, not like that."
ForrestIndustries
Yeah,but many people make the mistake of thinking: because God exists, cause amd effect don't, when that is still very much the case
ArchMagos
That's like making a setting as GM then having the players immediately go off the rails.
Getty13
I think your mixing up God and David Cameron a year ago
Whatwhatsomethingbutt
If you try to understand free will in 140 characters you're going to have a bad time.
blubbamannen
"We have free will, the Master said so"....
kraken003
do it in one word ...."murica, fuck yeah!" .... shit that was 3
deusabsconditus
Damn right
smarmageddon
Can confirm.
NuIIPointerException
I like your username and am jealous you thought of it first
isaacw808
This kind of logic always boggles my mind. If even to acknowledge a God has to come acknowledging a devil. But no blames the devil.
smarmageddon
In what way does the existence of a god logically necessitate the existence of a devil?
AlCo94
Good question, presence of evil perhaps?
InGoodCompanyNM
So the devil makes bugs now? And cancer?
dbqpdbqp
but God didn't give man free will, Satan did...
politelydisagreeing
Nope, Satan was an angel of temptation. The serpent is unrelated, and only talked to eve about doing something bad. Eve chose to do so.
britishkid
Satan may have done it, but God in his omnipotence allows it to be so and thus is still to be held ultimately responsible
szepasszony
Though few interpret the Bible that way, I like this interpretation.Mostly because I think Lucifer is a better mythical figure than Jehovah.
panamakid
WHAT
isaacw808
The greatest achievement of the devil is convincing the world he doesn't exist.
smarmageddon
If I may rephrase your statement, "There is no evidence for something, therefore it exists."
kraken003
psh, no evidence? saw his holiness in a piece of toast once, and,AND the crying christ statue, I mean, what more do you want?
Phayzzer
UNICORNS!!!
smarmageddon
Damn right.
Phayzzer
Irishda
Is there no evidence or do we just misunderstand the evidence? Like microbes before an instrument to observe them
smarmageddon
3 we would accept it. That's the beauty of science, it's always looking to be proven wrong by better explanation.
smarmageddon
1 There is no evidence that meets our standard. If there was, if an evil supernatural entity turned out to provide the best, most consistent
smarmageddon
2 explanation for the suffering in the world, if this was provable, testable, and gave us the most consistent results when tested, then
smarmageddon
the loosest of theories.
Irishda
Belief that a prevailing "fact" is wrong usually must come before the proof
smarmageddon
4 But until that happens, we will stick with the best model we've got so far using the criteria below, and the devil will count as
Tinynipples
But we didn't worship microbes before we knew they existed.
Tinynipples
We blamed sickness on crazy shit like ghosts
Irishda
But to people who believe in God, they know they exist
Tinynipples
Your comparison only works if we discover a scientific explanation for what people blame on the devil.
Irishda
It sounded just as insane when people posited that illness was caused by tiny living organisms we can't see
danishjuggler21
"Look, but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, but don't swallow. And while you're jumping from one foot to the other, he's 1/2
danishjuggler21
up there LAUGHING HIS SICK FUCKING ASS OFF!! He's a sadist! He's an absentee landlord!"
OverLander54
I thought Satan supposedly gave man free will, with the fruit of knowledge?
hazelriver474
Eve would not have been able to choose to eat the fruit without free will in the first place.
MemusSupremus
Congratulations, you broke religion.
hazelriver474
Ive actually never heard of satan giving free will. Ive always been told it is God's gift.
tsleighbuilder
It's interesting to me that neither of the options are inherently bad. Knowledge of good and evil (moral agency) or eternal life. 1/
MrChurch
I will choose the path that's clear. I will choose free will.
Mitheledh
More like, "Here's the rules and here's free will. You can choose to follow the rules or not to. It's up to you."
IReallyDuckedThisUp
P.S. Here's twenty other sets of rules, all equally credible and mutually exclusive.
ElZacho75
Hello beautiful child that doesn't know right from wrong. Gratz on the happiness and joy, now die of bone cancer. what rules did they break?
ElZacho75
Lol. That just proves this man's point. What kind of God is that? To doom us all at birth? Faith? Faith that if we do well we are rewarded?
Mitheledh
I'll just direct you to John 9:1-12
IComeInPeaceShootToKill
Where the fuck is Jesus when you need him? Get your act together Jesus! Babies are DYING, children are getting RAPED. Show yourself!
JamBarn
Consequences of living in a world in a fallen state, a world of perpetual sin and wickedness, etc. Oddly, it seems religious peeps are 1/2
JamBarn
Much more comfortable with the half shitty nature of being alive than atheists are. I find that a little counterintuitive. 2/2
judgemasterven
Nah. Non-religious folks try and fix it. It's the nutjob religious ones ( not insinuating all are ) that just wanna pray it all better.
[deleted]
[deleted]
IComeInPeaceShootToKill
I thought Jesus should have wiped that away when he died on the cross?
JamBarn
Sounds like you've got some Wikipedia entries to read then.
thelazyninja
Right. Babies get to burn in hell for all eternity because two old humans fucked up. Sounds reasonable.
JamBarn
There is no religion in the world that believes this. Congrats on inventing one.
SomeWateryTartThrewASwordAtMe
Brexit simplified?
Mitheledh
Not everyone believes in Original Sin. I believe that God will hold you accountable only for your own actions.
igotmad
It's not free will if it's given to us, regardless of it being from an all-powerful being for which there is no evidence for.
TraitorousTrump3
ie "not like that".
JamBarn
When you make a universe then you can decide what's good and bad, okay?
smarmageddon
"...But I already knew what you are going to do before I wrote the rules."
obizues
That's an assumption. I can choose to not know how a simulation game I play is going to end.
szepasszony
An all-powerful God that can do the impossible could make a world where humans have free will AND without evil.
SirusKing
"But if you break the completely unreasonable rules you will burn in hell".
lacydawnn
Because I love you so much
JamBarn
Hell is a Greek notion that appeared around the time of the New Testament. Christian scholars are split on its nature and existence.
IComeInPeaceShootToKill
Rather irrelevant to the argument. The point is Christians believe people get punished for not obeying stupid rules.
SirusKing
By far the majority of christians believe in hell, so it doesn't really matter.
hardytardigrade
You equate free will with sin. God deemed capacity for sin greater than good, yet sends us to Hell for acting on it. Makes no sense at all.
Mitheledh
I'm baffled how you got that from what I said. Choosing to follow the rules is still exercising your free will. God is not making you.
hardytardigrade
Limiting behavior to God's rules is not free will, so acting outside those rules (i.e. sin) is free will. God created people with ability
hardytardigrade
to sin, because this was more important to Him than making people who couldn't sin. Therefore, He saw capacity for sin as greater than
JamBarn
More totally made up stuff.
hardytardigrade
Are you referring to my comment?
JamBarn
Yeah, that's why I wrote that. No one believes you get sent to hell for "exercising free will." 1/2
StarkRG
If the rules are ostensibly made by someone not worthy of respect, then why should I follow them?
bondagewithjesus
thats one of my favourite fallacies of evil exists cause free will but its not free will if you're punished for it
AHdemon
Free will means you have the right to choose what you do. That doesn't mean there aren't repercussions for doing so. A computer has no (1)
AHdemon
free will but you can bet if we gave it free will and it started giving out your ssn there would be repercussions.
obizues
You sound like someone that thinks free speech only applies to them and implies a freedom of consequences for your speech.
hardytardigrade
You are describing an individual's hypocrisy. What does that have to do with impossibility of free will under threat of eternal damnation?
bondagewithjesus
I just think that free will with conditions is not truly free will especially when the condition is infinite torture
obizues
It's not free will without consequence. It's the ability to choose. That's like: "sure I can touch fire but that would hurt so I can't."
bondagewithjesus
no its putting a gun to someones head and telling they have telling they have a choice 1/2
obizues
The idea is that a creator could had made it so you HAD to follow his exact rules.