sonofmoe
178142
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Mar 28, 2013 3:03 PM
sonofmoe
178142
1464
164
TylerD2022
The United States was founded as one of the only secular nations at its time. Secular yes; Atheist, no.
MrTEAP
Is anyone else disturbed how The Constitution of the United States has only 21 pages???!?
reign1701a
Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists, who believe that God created the universe and that's it...God's done squat since.
ChicagoBadger
Treaty of Tripoli
easymacc
All men are created equal, (they all shoot eachother a grin), you know what we mean
ChefHannibal
point for tosh reference ;)
easymacc
glad someone caught it :)
stratosphere
All men cover it all huh? Really?
avidatheist
This belongs here:
twfeline
Separation of church and state. The man who pioneered this in America, did so because he felt that civil affairs sullied religion.
ShamrockFury
It doesn't matter what the founding fathers did, it's what WE do now that defines us as a nation. How's that for some inspirational shit?!
NotAmused1001
That's inspiring. Now make the other 300 million people believe that.
TozzaG
http://imgur.com/iekn3aJ
YoungSloshee
I went to a presentation by a U. of Mich. Poli Sci professor. She told us something really interesting about her historian colleagues (1/2)
YoungSloshee
The term "Judeo-Christian ethics" was a creation by WWII military leaders to get people of different American backgrounds to fight together.
MisterManatee
The Constitution is a very bare bones document that outlines the structure of government. There are a lot of things that aren't in there.
CookyRooky
Does this have anything to do with gay marriage? Otherwise, all I'm seeing is Christianity being attacked. Why OP? Why?
jamalcolorado
I'd like to point out the words"Secular," "Democracy," and "Freedom" are also not located in the Constitution...(1/2)
jamalcolorado
(2/2) so by this logic, the nation wasn't founded on those either...
idontgetsarcasm
Are we going to, collectively, bury this whole issue into the ground? I feel like what's needed to be said, has been.
whoisyourdaddy
Search... Search Penis.
Humblegatsby
NO PETER
Textuality
"We aknowledge that all men are created equal ... except for Adams and his giant horse penis. Seriously, fucketh that guy."
deliveryman
John Hancock
bongasaur
Joey hand penis
Harvesterosorro
John Hancock?.....it's Herbie Hancock.
fourthingsandalizard
I upvote this not because it makes sense, but because it made me picture the 2nd Continental Congress dancing to Chameleon.
BaxterTheMiniatureBuddha
Sinner.
tumalow2
+1 for tommy boy quote
Berethian
Instruction unclear, got penis stuck in constitution of the United States.
Sinniri
Quick! Before Nicholas Cage comes back!
Berethian
Oh god. He might steal my penis with it.
OriginalMrBibz
"Acrobat has finished searching the document. 174 matches were found."
CrimsonChin05
Gah, you're pretty clever. You deserve an award.
Kailhun
the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; [1/2]
Kailhun
as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen. - Treaty of Tripoli [2/2]
Pentel123
Signed to appease muslim pirates
LangdonAlger
Search slaves
TheGreatCO
Did you try searching for "women"?
Bagdot20
They didn't exist back then...duh.
narmold
Democracy isn't in there either
Gryphacus
Democratic republic, I'm pretty sure. US isn't a democracy. We have an electoral college representing the people. It isn't direct voting.
Battlepanda911
It says people, and women are people last I checked.
joehara23
Well last time i checked was in 3000 bc!
BaoAlex357
At the time it was written, neither blacks nor women were people in a legal sense. Thus why the Constitution is a living document. (1/2)
Battlepanda911
I checked now. Why would i check when it was written?
BaoAlex357
This allows the meanings and effects to shift and alter as the times change. (2/2)
snarker
Ridiculous. While women may not have been full citizens no one would have said they were not people. Blacks on the other hand...
ireallyloveelephants
not sure why you've been downvoted...unless i misunderstood your comment, i'd say you're right...for a long time black people just werent
snarker
This place is populated by people who have swallowed the kool-aid of Christian heterosexual white male guilt .
ireallyloveelephants
considered people. women didnt have the rights but in a different way...i guess cuz they werent thought to be as smart or whatever as men
mem0ri
Look in the Declaration of Independence ... "Endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights" ...
CitizenDickbag
"Creator" doesn't connote the Christian god. Jefferson, the author, was a deist, after all, who rejected Jesus's divinity.
ChicagoBadger
Because the Declaration is the same thing as the Constitution. Also, that doesn't say anything about how the country will govern.
mem0ri
The Declaration is a statement of principles and beliefs ... the Constitution is a statement of rules and regulations.
iarmit
Creator is not necessarily the same as Judeo-Christian God, YWHW, what-have-you
mem0ri
It's also not necessarily NOT a Judeo-Christian God. Only 1 founding father was diest (then later Atheist) - Paine.
mem0ri
Even people's "favorite diest" Jefferson kept a pew at a Christian church his entire life and mentioned diesm ONCE in passing in a letter.
CitizenDickbag
Jefferson edited his own Bible in which he expunged all of Jesus' miracles, because he rejected his divinity. Franklin was also deist.
mem0ri
... was written by him to extract the philosophy of Jesus "without addressing the question of diety" - NOT rejecting it (2/2)
mem0ri
Franklin was a deist - huge miss by me. However, the "Jefferson Bible" was never claimed by Jefferson as a Bible and ... (1/2)
RangerMiggy
As a serious rebuttal, conduct the same exercise on the declaration of independence please.
CrimsonChin05
Served
LevSco
The DoI is from the government before the constitutional government we have now. It has no impact on our current political structure.
katniqp
Yeah, like everyone's already said. That really doesn't have anything to do with our laws, just that we aren't an English colony...
iarmit
well, i'm pretty sure his term search was not working, because "church" most definitely appears in the Bill of Rights.
avidatheist
Actually no, religion does though.
imabushbaby
Not a governing document.
tossingEwoksIntoLakesOfMethane
but a founding document. raison d'etre.
CitizenDickbag
None of these terms appear there, either. The DoI makes one reference to a "Creator," but doesn't define it. Jefferson, who wrote it, 1/2
CitizenDickbag
2/2 was a Deist, so you've actually just further proved we're not a "Christian" nation in our founding.
RangerMiggy
I don't think either document really proves either/or. That's my point. This is 1 of those topics that only gets most ppl angry.
d3matt
Both "Nature's God" and Creator... not trying to argue against you, just nit picking
HauldrenCollider
Abortion not found either.
MeanwhileBackOnEarth
“The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” Pres. Adams. 1797
OhChocolate
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other" Pres. Adams 1798
ChicagoBadger
Shhh don't talk about the Treaty of Tripoli.
alvastar
semantically, being founding "on" the christian religion is very different from being founded *as* a christian nation.
Timberlin
To be fair, it also doesn't mention government run healthcare or gay marriage either.....
lifeishortliveitblonde
shhh youll be lynched if you dont agree
avidatheist
That's when congress comes around and slaps you in the face with the elastic clause.
Thor561
Which means the gov't should probably stay out of both.
avidatheist
Elastic clause.
ChicagoBadger
No one in the history of the universe has ever claimed it was founded on either of those.
funkmaster40
I have found them both!
NotFarEnough
Well, to be honest we don't really have straight-up "government-run healthcare" in the U.S. though
deliveryman
Nor does it mention free speech. That's an amendment.
tossingEwoksIntoLakesOfMethane
this. this is nonsequitter. once adopted, amendments are part of the constitution.
d3matt
it's an important distinction though. The founders didn't initially think they needed to list those freedoms as they were implicit
tossingEwoksIntoLakesOfMethane
and they were mistaken, so they made them clearer. also made them federal so individual states couldn't pull crazy shit.
iarmit
pretty sure that would be Life and Pursuit of Happyiess... so check the Declaration of Independence?
Pentel123
The government can't kill you without cause. You can work to improve your standing in life based on what makes you happy.
drokblock
it says life liberty and property. but the 9th amendment covers these as personal rights not federal responsibilities.
ImRonBurgundy
It was still founded on Christian ideals... like it or not.
Strudol
how? if it says nothing of it in the fucking thing that establishes us as a nation, then I have no idea what you're talking about.
ImRonBurgundy
You are a moron. If an artist is inspired by a muse it doesn't mean he fucking paints it. Does a singer always sing about their inspiration?
Strudol
so basically you're just saying things and have no proof to back it up? the founding fathers were mosty diests not christians
ImRonBurgundy
Downvote the truth, really classy Imgurians. I'm not religious but I still have my head out of my ass.
BigWasteOfTime
Logged in just to upvote you. Right with ya!
JeffDahmer
I'm right there with you Ron.
ImRonBurgundy
I love imgur, but how selective people are over which truths they acknowledge or not is annoying. It's another form of censorship
hoopyhoop
Like 3/5ths of a person?
Thor561
Actually, yeah. The Bible is pretty ok with slavery, just doesn't specify blacks as the only ones being slaves.
ShamrockFury
MIDGETS ARE PEOPLE TOO!
ChefHannibal
mostly
foxearredasshole
This is glorious!
AceofShades
They did that for a reason. If I remember correctly it was because they were 3/5th a human rather than 0%. I would have to research again
avidatheist
It's because big slave states wanted slaves to count towards their population, but wouldn't be allowed to vote.
AceofShades
That sounds more like it, I knew they had an actual good reason for doing it, but it came to play a big part in a case somewhere
avidatheist
Yeah, don't know what that case is.
Imisspelledthatonpurpose
If you're interested in learning about this rather than basing your opinion on a post http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1298911/posts
foxearredasshole
Instead we should learn from your biased, right wing website? Not likely.
Imisspelledthatonpurpose
Right, because a cited and reviewed site is so unreliable. Esp. Compared to a cntrl+F search of (maybe) the constitution.
foxearredasshole
Just because it has citation doesn't make it unbiased. You can take pieces of a writing and twist it to make your point.
Strudol
The second you claim that charles darwin gave us secularism you lose all credit. he was actually a religious man most of his life
baronridiculous
The idea that secular world views did not exist before Darwin is hilariously wrong.
Konoton
You got that right.
Imisspelledthatonpurpose
That's not theatre that concerns this post. Scroll down a little.
horseslaughter
The founding fathers were mostly Deists. They acknowledged the presence of a higher power, but they were by no means ordinary Christians.
alittlebitmorelikebukowski
not really relevant to the argument
SirLockeHolmes
As a deist, I was excited to read this in my history class in 10th grade. +1 for historical knowledge.
HatsAreEssential
That's kind of what a lot of Christianity was back in the day, though. "God helps those who help themselves", and stuff like that.
thebrew
The Bible can be found in your local library in the fiction section.
GoldFrieza
Some were Deist, not sure if most were
horseslaughter
Wow, fucking necromancy!
StrangeSavant
Deists are not Christians.
SovietWrench
Everybody knows that Jesus wrote the constitution. Read a book.
Crimsonpheonix
Like the bible, 'Murica.
nommek
Man, this is such a regurgitated myth/distortion. Read what the men themselves wrote and you see how public school textbooks miss by a mile.
mkvenner
God was a clock maker, and much like Ron Popeil, he set it and forgot it.
toastytheburninator
That's actually not entirely true. Many were very religious, and a large number of ministers were among them.
StrangeSavant
Can you name some for us, please?
toastytheburninator
Franklin and Jefferson were basically deists, and Washington wasn't really overt about religion, but they're the main ones ever mentioned.
ScotchWrecker
You are absolutely correct! I actually just learned about this in my History of Religion in the U.S. class. +1 for true knowledge!
StrangeSavant
Religion classes are even more useless than art classes.
ayebrows
THIS. They, however wanted the church and government to be totally separate in every way because they SAW how the church controlled Europe.
[deleted]
[deleted]
WrongReference
As a Christian, THIS.
abetterusernamewouldgetmemoreupvotes
I would argue that it was just as much the other way around. They wanted government out of the church too. (What Rome did to Christianity)
ayebrows
Yeah that's exactly what I said in my second comment lol.
abetterusernamewouldgetmemoreupvotes
I see that now, my bad. Upvotes all around!
ayebrows
And they wanted that to never happen here, or vice versus, because they were also hyper-aware of the fact that religious intolerance was big
avidatheist
Vice versa*.
ayebrows
ah! Thank you.
avidatheist
Not a problem. People mess those kinds of things up all the time.
d3matt
when written that way, the 's' is silent :P
avidatheist
No it's not.
DEWilding
Something something separation of church and state
WellWhyTheHeckNot
Prohibt Gov from declaring an official religion, allow free excercise of, and no religious test for public office, that is what it says.
WellWhyTheHeckNot
It does not say that the Gov has to act like religion doesn't exist.
franklyepic
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." It's heavily implied though.
Pentel123
Then the government has no authority to make any laws regarding marriage
franklyepic
marriage as a legal term is a bond between two consenting adults of opposite sex for certain benefits and obligations to eachother.
Pentel123
The religious use predates the governmental use. The governments in teh west use it because they would all founded with a religious history
franklyepic
monogamy is not a purely religious concept. The term marriage is not religious in my opinion at all. However the term "holy matrimony" is.
EPCOT
Separation of church and state, which is not articulated in the Constitution, is intending to protect the church moreso than the state
Odessa
I think you've gotten this backwards friend.
ScotchWrecker
It was originally what mttbry stated. In the present, it has somehow reversed. Today the state is trying to be protected from the church.
nommek
Nope. He's got it right. Jefferson for the win!
MegamansDick
Source? The idea was to get away from the Church of England or anything similar.
EPCOT
The Church of England was an arm of the state...
HatsAreEssential
Yup. The first colonies were founded cause the state wouldn't stay out of the church.
MegamansDick
You won't find the phrase "separation of church and state" in there either.
avidatheist
That term was coined by Thomas Jefferson in a letter.
MegamansDick
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" is as close as it gets.
ChicagoBadger
That's an amendment.
MegamansDick
I don't know how to address this. Yes, it is the First Amendment. The first thing addressed in the US Constitution. Free speech, assembly...
baronridiculous
Amendments are part of the Constitution.
ChicagoBadger
*sigh* I was just offering an explanation. If you ctrl+f those in that document, you wouldn't find it.
BARTELS
Try "three-fifths"
nommek
Actually a clever way to begin paving the way to ending slavery.
cjubb39
Not a clever way to pave the way to ending slavery. A clever way to put off the issue until it escalates to (partially) causing a war.
Pentel123
It says a slave is only worth three fifths of a free person because free states didn't want black to count towards the pop of slave states..
Pentel123
when deciding how many representatives each state got
BARTELS
It would have been clever, had the plan worked, but it didn't. Took them 80 years to get their shit together.
drokblock
damn democrats.
BARTELS
*Federalists and Democratic-Republicans
drokblock
um, can't be both. One opposed the other.
avidatheist
Not like they could really do anything about it the way congress is set up though.
BARTELS
True, but they were the ones who set Congress up that way.
avidatheist
Yup. Though I don't actually think the 3/5ths compromise was to pave the way for abolishing slavery.