dipity90
507744
13178
1333
The picture everyone knows
November 18th, 2011, students at UC Davis who were protesting as part of Occupy Wall Street were pepper sprayed by police.
Yesterday, I was downvoted for saying that this picture often gets taken out of context.
As this post has received more attention than I'd planned, I want to say that my point is not to say that the police are right. I only want people to see that there is more. It's frustrating that people take a single image on imgur as news, and don't do their own work to find out more.
I plan to edit captions, as I've been told my recounting of the recorded events were biased, to try and give more sides.
Before that
In a video that captured events from before students were pepper sprayed, you see police at the scene in full riot gear. The university police called in for assistance from additional departments (some officers who assaulted students at Berkley are present) inform the crowd that they will be subject to arrest if they do not leave the area. This might seem strange... it's withing our constitutional right to protest.
However, the day before, students had set up tents. The University instructed for them to be removed by a certain time. When many of the students did not comply, police were sent to remove the tents. Only after the students refused removal and prevented the police from removing the tents were they asked to leave.
More warnings
An officer continues to instruct people to leave. He cites the law in which the students are in violation, gives detail on how they will be arrested, and what consequences will follow. The students continue to chant and do not move. Only then do the police move forward.
On November 23 Katehi (UC Davis Chancellor) stated that she only told the campus police "to remove the tents or the equipment." She stresses that she told them "very specifically to do it peacefully, and if there were too many of them, not to do it, if the students were aggressive, not to do it. And then we told them we also do not want to have another Berkeley"
A handful of students are arrested
Students begin to chant, "set them free." They then "march peacefully" toward where the arrested students are being held on the ground.
Students link arms and surround the police
The students chant "if you let them go, we will let you leave."
Each student blocking the path is told the consquences
This officer goes to each individual student blocking the path and informs them that if they do not move, they will be subject to force. He then asks if they understand this. No one moves.
Another warning
They are trying to get a police car down the path, but students will not move.
With those under arrest also within the circle, they must clear a path in order to get them to the car
They ask again for students to move.
Students are warned they will be "shot with pepper spray"
This student then yells, "you're going to shoot me?!" which raises new chants among the students. "Don't shoot students."
Then this happens
The students had been given enough warning that most of them found things with which to cover their faces. Students not on the path even hand over scarves and bandannas to those who are.
"Our line that they pepper-sprayed was ... one-person-deep. One of the officers began to remove us physically without the use of weapons. And Lieutenant John Pike ordered them to stop, raising his pepper can and saying ... 'Leave them. I want to spray these kids.'" - William, eyewitness protester You cannot hear this in the video, and I don't know if it was said, but a protester claimed that it was.
You can see the full video of the incident here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjXcaoEAkq4
Edit: I wasn't expecting this to get as much attention as it is. Obviously, I have my opinion of the matter, but my point in posting this was not to attempt to sway others to my opinion, or even try to say that the police were correct. I am not condoning police brutality. My thought was only that opinions be formed from more than this single photograph. If you still think, or changed your mind to think, that the police were in the wrong, I'm okay with that. If you think the police were in the right, I'm okay with that. If you're somewhere in between (as I actually am, many of you seem to think otherwise), I'm okay with that too.
I do appreciate the conversations this has gotten going, though.
I've come across some more videos, but don't have time to fully watch them right now. I will say, that one does show police arresting students somewhat forcefully.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3A0d9fHWag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjXk9wYWIE8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwFa5Kq4Rfo
bender211
I have been pepper sprayed. I would have immediately complied.
TODAYSNUMBERIS
I call bullshit. We know what happened and STILL think it was the wrong thing to do.
Polkadottedpandas
Unless you were there you don't know what happened. The media will report whatever makes the best story.
WhatUpIGotABigHawk
We? Are you the head of the group opinion committee?
seanmcthornton
Haha. "Well, they were warned they'd be maced at point blank rage. Brutality justified!"
tmonster
thank you
FreakOnDrugs
Exactly, NO GUYS it's okay, they were warned many times, they could have just stopped protesting! (1/2)
FreakOnDrugs
This should NEVER be the response to protesting,you can't just say stop or I'll mace you to stop a protest. This post didn't change shit.
Andriizzzle
I attended UC Davis at the time. Everything said in this post is true. Students were breaking the law and being so so so stupid...
YoureGonnaGetHopOns
........go Aggies.
kumquatsandpoppycocks
And then we go on about how we have to explain that an Aggie is our mascot. Which is a horse. It should really be a cow.
YoureGonnaGetHopOns
I think "gunrock" is our mascot and we are aggies...... who knows.
Piornet
For decades cops picked them up and moved them without spraying them in the face with mace. Cop later lied and said he felt threatened.
TryNotToPanic
Can't touch anyone without getting a sexual assault charge or excessive force investigation
Piornet
That's bullshit and you know it. Don't defend this fat fuck.
GruulNinja
Could happen though.
TryNotToPanic
If OP isn't lying they were following protocol. If people want to fix the issue they should lobby their state for riot protocol reformation.
Piornet
As I said - they pick people up and move them. This fat fuck sprayed them in the face and later lied about it, saying they threatened him.
TryNotToPanic
Regardless, if within protocol, he seems to have given plenty warning of what was to come. Seemed handled well.
TryNotToPanic
Also, physically moving people in a crowded area while surrounded may lead to violence and rather outlandish claims.
NOINOON
Soo.... slowpoke?
BarryDeKokiner
A pebble in a lake comment here, but if no one showed up to oppose this, they would be a bunch of ignored students sitting on campus.
shadolance
I live there, and saw it happen. I left before these picture were taken, but it was a very upsetting situation for everyone.
stewieeeeeeeeee
i was on vacation when this happened and saw it on the news in Hawaii and was just like "what the fuck happened"
whyteraven74
There was still no excuse for what was done.
SkaggAteMyPappy
They were all told that they were going to be subject to force, and they had the chance to move. Their protest had no basis anyway.
chiefgeronimo
I thought that too until I just read all this.. there are two sides to a story and the emotional one we cling onto isn't always the right 1
howdoiscience
Hey OP, I was in the circle of folks sprayed. You're neglecting the fact that they were A) Non-violent, B) there was a huge hole in the
kurastwolf
Right to Protest does not cover third party entities, just the government. Universities are not the government.
howdoiscience
I have a hard time buying into that claim given that it's a public/state university and not a private institution like Stanford.
[deleted]
[deleted]
howdoiscience
I don't really know how to respond. I have personal issues that make it hard for me to be involved in this stuff, but I think the protest
howdoiscience
was worth my time.
TheSSMorgan2015
time space continuum which allowed the enemy access to our solar system. And that's how the invasion began.
howdoiscience
I like the added humor, this sort of stuff needs it sometimes. That and it wasn't aimed to hurt folks. (Unless...)
howdoiscience
In hindsight I have been rather emotionally charged. I am obviously biased. The students broke the law, but the level of force was poorly
howdoiscience
chosen in my mind. A quick decision was made that escalated the situation. I don't regret protesting or supporting folks breaking the law,
howdoiscience
just that the actions of the folks involved led to people getting hurt. I'm glad it didn't turn more violent.
TrainsWereHarmed
May I ask why the tents were there in the first place? (Not meant in an accusing tone I am genuinely curious)
howdoiscience
It was a tactic used in the past that was borrowed from the Occupy Movement. Having tents and a continual presence on the quad allowed for
howdoiscience
students to collaborate and plan protests, while also creating a visual demonstration of their protest. The chancellor's decision to remove
howdoiscience
students by any means necessary was when things went sour. That and a bit of a break down in command. That is IIRC.
PsychologicalTrauma
Depends on which use of continuum they were using. Passive aggression is counted as force and if necessary you can use.... 1/2
PsychologicalTrauma
Personal protection equipment. Or ppe. Sauce: I'm a corrections officer.
howdoiscience
I can see how what the students did would be breaking the law. The people arrested went limp while other students circled folks that were
howdoiscience
in the process of being apprehended and essentially hoped to stop the arresting officers from carrying out the arrests. I am obviously
howdoiscience
a biased individual here, because many friends of mine were there, and I went to support them. I think the force was poorly executed/chosen.
howdoiscience
Oh, and you also forgot that Pike bent down to spray directly into the faces of the students after brandishing the pepper spray and stepping
gamer2k4
Where would you expect him to spray it? In their hair? On their shoes?
howdoiscience
You're supposed to use pepper spray indirectly, filling the area around the person's face, not directly into their mouth/eyes/nose
HurryUpIgotNutstoBustButtsTOfuckNDslutsToFuckinUppercut
Gotta aim for eyes otherwise your just wasting it
howdoiscience
over the students without any obstruction from the students sitting on the ground. You also neglect to mention the giant crowd that
howdoiscience
By obstruction I mean they did not stop Pike from stepping over them.
howdoiscience
got up and followed the officers off of the quad but CONTINUED to stay non-violent. Nothing was thrown. There wasn't a riot.
punster
Sounds legit. Intimidating a police officer (campus police? either way), nothing wrong with that.
howdoiscience
Sorry, to clarify people followed a bit, stopped, and chanted that they could leave. And the crowd stopped and helped folks when
howdoiscience
circle near the back that isn't picture OR in the video.
pokachu
thanks for what you did. Judging by the comments, OP is in the minority implying it was acceptable
dipity90
I do not think the cop should have sprayed them that closely.
BrucefromAustralia
Hah. Wouldn't you like to think so!
MillerLitesaber
Non-violent does not mean legal. If you were obstructing police officers making arrests, that's on you even if you're being non-violent.
howdoiscience
True, but I would argue that civil disobedience has always been a part of non-violent protest. The aim isn't to obey the law, it's to
MillerLitesaber
There is definitely an argument to be had there. But that's just how it is, there's two sides to every story.
howdoiscience
challenge the status quo. Would it be reasonable for officers to use rubber bullets/bean bags on a crowd of chanting students? It depends,
howdoiscience
on the situation. In this case, the officers seemed to show restraint, and none of them were hurt in the end. Just students who were
thedeecher918
What does it matter how many warnings they were told. Is it ever okay to treat non violent humans like this??
Ashrubel
Yes. Non-Violent does not mean non-dangerous nor non-threatening. on-violent has escalated to violent manytimes. They had the right to do it
Stopdat
They had tents? Whoa, that changes everything! REI terrorists don't deserve their Constitutional or human rights.
ImgurSage
I'm surprised that such a trollish comment is getting so many upvotes...
Stopdat
Mocking? Sure. Humorous? Arguably. Espousing civil rights? Definitely. Trollish? Doesn't seem that way to me, and certainly not the intent.
TheOneWhoKnoockz
You can't protest and break laws while doing it.
ReadySetBake
Actually you can. However you are subject to arrest.
playthatrecordbackwards
Yes, you can. It's occasionally the entire point of the protest. I will agree that if you break the laws while protesting you should be 1/2
playthatrecordbackwards
prepared to handle the consequences.
JosephGordonLevittsLeftSock
i refuse to either up or downvote this post or any of it's comments. this shit is gnarly
xSquirrelly
You mean...there's more than one side of stories?! Lies!
actuallyjustluke
Where went the classic "drag the passive resistors away as they continue to passively resist" thing? Time consuming, yes, but less extreme.
randomonotony
It kills me that ppl act as if nothing should be done to get protestors like these to move. They stopped protesting their "cause" (1/2)
randomonotony
when they moved to prevent the police from removing their cohorts. That's obstruction and does nothing to add value to their original point.
oaque
bottom line: never go outside. not because of cops, riots, or mace. but because of the sun. it's excessively bright.
Caffynated
The sun needs to chill out and cool it with all the light and heat.
oaque
who is it trying to impress?! we get it! nuclear fission or whatever is great! it's enough already!!
ihavealteredmyusernameagainprayidontalteritanyfurther
BumbleBeeBeardedGingerBear
Never forget your sunbrella. Or your towel. Who do i look like? Douglas Adams?
Erilis
is that really the takeaway here?
MadDucks
this is Imgur.
CaptainFumbles
As someone who was sunburned yesterday, he has a good point.
[deleted]
[deleted]
rokkerboyy
Its that slightly brighter area the clouds that you see during the day
Silentbunny
All i see is tea.
KillingTlme
As a Californian, I will trade you a week of sun for a week of rain. Deal?
MadDucks
thuroughly unpleasant affair. beat not to be botheres with it.
SeeingAsIHaveAnInsulinPumpIGuessImTechnicallyACyborg
really fail to see how people don't understand this. Like it or not, circling cops making arrests, wether during a peaceful protest (1/?)
SeeingAsIHaveAnInsulinPumpIGuessImTechnicallyACyborg
or not, is considered threatening because it is a threat to their safety. IF the protest were to turn violent, they would be surrounded(2/?)
SeeingAsIHaveAnInsulinPumpIGuessImTechnicallyACyborg
and cutoff from backup. Their lives would be in danger, and like it or not, that is something that matters. So don't try and sell me (3/?)
SeeingAsIHaveAnInsulinPumpIGuessImTechnicallyACyborg
the line about how this was a peaceful protest. They have to take this seriously at all times so that when it's not, they don't die. (4/4)
crowey92
so when i go shopping in a crowded area im allowed to use force because im surrounded and cut off from an exit if they were to turn violent?
SeeingAsIHaveAnInsulinPumpIGuessImTechnicallyACyborg
That would depend. Did the people surrounding you do so to intentionally prevent you from leaving, and did you give them fair warning?
crowey92
did they actually do anything to stop him? as i recall not one hand was placed on the man, sounds like they were literally just in the way
IWasInThePool
"the evidence does not provide an objective, factual basis for Lt. Pike's purported belief that he was trapped" (1)
twozerooz
Lol who exactly do YOU think said that? I'll give ya a hint: the protestors
CleverlyReferencedThing
It might be better to cite a non-biased article, all the authors are from Davis
swatz
at one point they chant "set them free and we will let you go," I'd say that alone would be enough for me to draw a weapon.
TheUpdootist
"They said words!?" *blam blam blam* - OP if cop probably
Thenameideserved
I hope you are not trying to become a cop.
ipreferthetermThespian
Notice where the quotes are. That's what the article said not the officer.
IWasInThePool
Not an article, one of two reports commissioned by the university.
IWasInThePool
"that any of his officers were trapped, or that the safety of their arrestees was at issue." (2)
IWasInThePool
http://reynosoreport.ucdavis.edu/reynoso-report.pdf (3)
EnDeRWiGiN
After reading that report it sounds like that is an every body gets fucked report.
TheLordLucifersBannedAccount02
Thank you for giving context to OPs bullshit.
dipity90
My bullshit was simply information taken from a video. I tried to keep it factual.
Bent0916
Consider citing nonbiased parties in the future. The report is up front about being authored by UC Davis students and faculty.
CanonOrNikon
YOU DA REAL MVP
IWasInThePool
The report authored by Kroll, a private firm, is in that same link.
whyteraven74
That it was authored by students and faculty does not denote bias.
Bent0916
The fact that the targets were UC Davis students makes the chance non-negligible.
Bent0916
(I'd also personally be skeptical of the faculty involved given the academic push behind OWS at the time.)
Guardsman111
It doesn't matter if safety was an issue or if they were trapped. The only time you use a tool for safety reasons is when you're using
Guardsman111
Lethal force to protect yourself. What you see here is an attempt to gain compliance through pain, which is lawful.
donkeymoney
That's crowd-control pepper spray, you are supposed to spray it at 30 feet, not point blank.
alchemist23
And in my country they just passed a law which states that it is illegal to film cops if it compromises national security (1/2)
raidleadergutts
"A matter of national security". The eternal cry of the oppressor.
alchemist23
Which by definition is too subjective and will cut both ways, whether the cops or the people are doing wrong or right. (2/2)
HuellHowser
Oh good I'm glad we got the real story from a certified Internet Detective
Switch75
Watch the video...
JasonBjorn
Hes probably a cop. Trying to make his fellow sociopaths look good.
Rips4w
Wow, youre pretty mental, arent ya?
JasonBjorn
Fuck off.
TheAllSeeingPie
I find it strange that when a chef or a plumber goes and murders people nobody calls the rest of the members of the workforce sociopaths.
JasonBjorn
Do some research on police abuse. Talk with cops inrl see how they treat you. Hell of a lot more sociopaths in that line of work than plumb.
TheAllSeeingPie
Oh wait no I don't. That would be fucking stupid just like calling all cops sociopaths.
everythingliteral
I go to Davis, and I saw a lot of this happen. He hit it right on the head.
HuellHowser
Upvote for a fellow Aggie anyway :)
HuellHowser
I was a 4th year at Davis at the time. IMO the use of force was unnecessary and avoidable despite the protestors being foolish.
OverpricedCrayon
I laughed.
xiafang
i like how this is just sarcastic enough to garner upvotes from all sides
tannerhebert25
They gave their opinion and then linked to the video so you could watch it and generate your own opinion. Quit being a cock
m3htevas
All he did was watch the video; which is more than most people can say. None of this is new information, just overlooked information.
GrouponEmployee
And that is what a detective's job is, to look at overlooked information.
NewtonWren
It's not overlooked, it's irrelevant. Prodigious use of pepper spray at close range against seated people, in academia of all places, 1)
backspace119
This is why your views are ignored, you cannot find enough sense about you to use logic, therefore no one can readily believe what you say.
NewtonWren
is really the ultimate video of a police state quashing free speech. This is the shit Russia uses to pretend it's better 2)
gatlinshore
Have you seen the video? He says "If you don't move we will pepper spray you" and the student replies "Ok". 1/2
gatlinshore
2/2 Before they get sprayed the students all gather hoodies and hats to cover their faces. They were made fully aware and consented.
chiefgeronimo
me too, as opposed to an out of context photo blown up to appeal to our emotions instead of making us question it.
RedXdeR
People are stupid, a person is smart - man disappointed his son wants to ride unicycles professionally
Sabatonian
Goats are like mushrooms, if you shoot a duck, Im scared of toasters.
MillerLitesaber
Have you met... us?
[deleted]
[deleted]
uniquename9001
I know the moral high ground is like a drug but it's time for you to come down. Use your critical thinking instead.
[deleted]
[deleted]
uniquename9001
What spin? There weren't enough cops to move them and deal with the crowd. They were warned and sprayed, simple. Actions have consequences.
uniquename9001
They aren't handcuffed. You can clearly see people using their hands to cover their faces. Are you being willfully ignorant?
chiefgeronimo
"If you let them go, we will let you leave." they chanted.. idk if peaceful protesters trap police while they are making an arrest either
chiefgeronimo
given this other side of the argument, turn out it was incredibly logical. To be honest I hadn't thought it was possible either until now
Grindfather901
Found the protester.
HuellHowser
I was actually attending UC Davis at the time, but had no interest in protesting.
NitroCho
Ha, I see what you did there. Well played, @Grindfather901. Well Played.
HybridCow
As a student who currentlygoes here, issue was less of 'Wall Stree protest'. It was more of rising tuition and fund mismanagement.
iamwpj
Also the cops show up in riot gear.
Keyto
I got sprayed that day, then dropped out and went to community college.
wakotheclown
Nice to hear what colleges are really about. Raise tuition and fees, shut up and deal with it. Ugh.
MyFrontPorchInMississippi
Yeah buddy
IWasInThePool
And a little pepper in the face to show you what the "real world" is all about.
FiveSixSevenEightTryToKeepYourThumbStraight
Go Aggies: I was on Campus when this happened
ChickenButtAndSoForth
Thank you, I cannot believe how many people aren't even aware of what this was actually about
cnphilli
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper-spray_incident first line says that is was part of the "occupy movement"
SweetGandhisTittySprinkles
Funny how people judge Putin in Russia and don't judge Obama regarding this issue.
GrammarPolice5150
Actually, the two issues are quite closely linked, especially by Elizabeth Warren. (i.e. bank's loans from the Fed vs. student loans).
bigtuna82
Then don't go to the college if it's too expensive
ShitSampleFiend
Why dont poor people just stop being poor? Its sooo simple!
chromehuffer
thats a great idea man. *eyeroll*
wormsinmahspice
Have a friend holding a poster saying "students, not customers" but they're paying for something, so they are in fact, both. got no response
JuniperVera
Let's make that not true - here's to FREE education!
wormsinmahspice
pssh what is this? Canada? If only
snufflepuffle
Hi fellow Aggie!
FiveSixSevenEightTryToKeepYourThumbStraight
And you survived Picnic Day and 4/20 *I tip my cap you*
snufflepuffle
Mostly by staying home and doing homework!
FiveSixSevenEightTryToKeepYourThumbStraight
smart
[deleted]
[deleted]
DoctorWatchamacallit
you guys realize you CAN go to higher ed in other countries right? you could starve the US of their money
[deleted]
[deleted]
DoctorWatchamacallit
not really. depends on where you are. try bologna or Bonn. Its nice and cheap there. about $300 euros a month rent.
DoctorWatchamacallit
and not for nothing, but do the math, and even if you live in a more expensive city, you still come out with less debt than if you stayed
DoctorWatchamacallit
you try doing that in my home state of New Jersey, it'll easily cost double if not triple in rent
DoctorWatchamacallit
sorry I meant about $300 to $400 in Euros a month for rent.
popau
Many of the best universities are in the US. There's also the issue that not everyone can/wants to leave their family for four years.
DoctorWatchamacallit
the best universities are NOT in the US. teaching here sucks, and I say that having been through both European and American systems. 1)
DoctorWatchamacallit
4) for researchers, but for an undergrad degree that should be the least of your concerns as you are there to study not do research
DoctorWatchamacallit
5) and even if you were, picking ranked insitutions is a shit way to pick grad schools. if you want to do nuclear reactor physics, you'd be
DoctorWatchamacallit
2) the only reason the US insiitutions get high ranks is professor and grad student research output, which is often done merely so you can
DoctorWatchamacallit
6) an idiot to go to Harvard as they don't even DO that type of research.
DoctorWatchamacallit
3) say you publish, and not because you have meaningful results, and I say that as a physicist. Albeit some institutions attract more talent
AutomotivePhysicist
It is nice to see behind the scenes of events like this.
USD1
Yeah, if only the mainstream media took the time to investigate like this instead of just turning people against cops
VodkaReindeer
I love DVD extras.
BirdYeezus
It is within our constitutional right to protest, BUT, once it has been ruled an unlawful assembly by police, then you must disperse.
djzapz
If we always did that then women wouldn't vote. They could limit your right to protest to make it irrelevant and then you wouldn't have shit
CaptainMustache
Pepper spray was the best option. The students had to be removed but if the officers had played a hand on them the students may have>
CaptainMustache
< fought back. As soon as a student hit an officer they are "assaulting an officer" which is a much more serious crime. Good guy ->
CaptainMustache
<- pepper spray cop was preventing them from getting a serious crime on their records. He looks like a dick, but the kids get off clean.
Galdornae
I still think the pepper spray guy is a dickwad though.
CarrierHasArrived725
He was suspended and later fired
captainspoof
There's a word that a lot of people love to disregard and it's called "CONTEXT"
NuclearButtPlugFromPlanetX
It's nice to see a bunch of entitled douche bags get pepper sprayed LOL. http://imgur.com/iO9hWjk
KingMe343
Boohoo. My friends got shot by police. Fuck your pepper spray.
KingMe343
Ageed. Look Gregory, Chamel and her friends stood uo to the nasty police today.
KingMe343
And PS if your white and are so privileged to name your daughter Camille ..I hate your guts
KingMe343
If you're white and Camille is 36 I hate your guts
CarrierHasArrived725
Totally agree with OP, I was there at UCD when it happened and was surprised at the media circus that followed
LGHTbeatz
It is
IfYouCheckMyCommentsYouWillNoticeImNotAFunnyGuy
Like... 3 AND A HALF YEARS LATE!
rockiesmagicnumber
but all of those people already spent their outrage
JayEnfield
The detailed versions were very available the day after the incident. I like the one that has all four videos imposed next to each other.
minusthebert
Behind the gif anyone?
sissichu
There's always two sides. Sometimes it's not worth to see both of them, but most of the time it is.
braidedbrain
the claim that the police were locked inside a circle is false. Watch Mr Pike walk very freely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q09i3PKIf50
Andreaslair
Because their vehicle was detained not a person. Braided brainwashed
shesaidgoodbyetotheground
But could they move their vehicle with detainees?
dunecat1337
The humanity! Not detained college students. Society was on the verge of collapse.
jahmakinmecrazy
i appreciate your sarcasm. i raised you from the dead, 0 to 1. Seven's blessings, on you
NoobOfEngland
Well I take back what I said a few years ago....
dipity90
Whenever I see clips or pictures from things like this, I always try to dig up more info and longer videos.
BumbleBeeBeardedGingerBear
A lot of my friends hate me b/c i do this. They trot out words like 'rape culture'. Im not saying justified, just saying makes more sense.
BumbleBeeBeardedGingerBear
But they say i'm defending cops etc. And i'm like no if you watch the vids, and here, unbiased arts w/several witness sta-"RED HERRING"
BumbleBeeBeardedGingerBear
Suggested free seminars at town centers where a speaker covers etiquette around police & educates on civil rights. They hated the idea.
AndreiTarkovskysMoustache
Still not an excuse to spray them...
MillerLitesaber
THANK you, OP. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills whenever something like this happens. I always say there's GOT to be more to the story.
gh3tt0gh0st
We need more people like you... :)
mewtherine
There seems to be a lot of comments asking "why couldn't they just step over the students?". I'm thinking perhaps it's a mix of the (1/?)
mewtherine
following: students have repeatedly not complied to verbal orders, so following that, there is no way the police would have known that (2/?)
mewtherine
it would be 100% safe to just "step" over the students; it's quite difficult to actually step over a body, let alone be holding onto (3/?)
mewtherine
another person to do it; the motive for students was to get the police to let the arrested go, which is well, just not possible (4/?)
IsTooDamnHigh
Now do that 'don't taze me bro' guy!
beartato
I watched the whole thing happen in person. Dipity90 is very correct in what happened, the issue is you can't use military grade mace (1/?)
beartato
on protestors. The FBI even said that you must be 9 feet away to use it or you will severely injure the said person. It's also illegal (1/?)
beartato
to have and use in California, and a huge investigation happened where they were trying to figure out where the Davis police got it (1/?)
beartato
Also, in the same video, the cops just kind of walk past the students to pepper spray them. They claimed they were cut off, and yet (1/?)
Occultist
It really seems like you are trying to justify this.
TrogHunt
It's not the events that lead up to the event that was the problem. It was his cited reason for doing it. He stated he felt he was in danger
gamblingpoet
So you think the actions were justified? Really? So peaceful protests need violence to break up?
notwastingtimeiswear
Obstructing police officers from putting arrested people into police cars in a safe and expedient manner, yes. They had time to move.
gamblingpoet
So you justify cops showing up in full SWAT gear to a peaceful protest? That's just sad.
Monarchist
Full RIOT gear yes, 10 men surrounded by 300 I'd hope they'd have shields and pepper spray so they have options that doesn't kill someone.
notwastingtimeiswear
This wasn't violent
gamblingpoet
Let's pepper spray you and see how you feel after.
notwastingtimeiswear
Yes. If I am breaking the rules of the campus I have privilege, not right, to be on. If I repeatedly disregard the officers telling me (1/)
imshibagel
It wasn't peaceful if these students deliberately are going out of their way to ignore warnings and make things difficult
gamblingpoet
Were they destroying property? Causing riots? Being violent?
derpony
Still not justified. I believe people have the right to peaceful protest. Also fuck the bankers!
SkaggAteMyPappy
3/X students blocked the path of the police car. Actual police brutality would be the officers simply pushing the students with the car.
SkaggAteMyPappy
4/X The students had absolutely no basis for their protest. The students that were arrested were in the wrong, it's that simple.
JagdPanzer38T
Actually, in the full context, the police showed up to take down tents that were not allowed to be set up, then the protest escalated. 1/?
hjf2011
Yes dude, that's the point. The tents were the "Technicality" needed to arrest them. How fucking square do you have to be to not realize?
JagdPanzer38T
The arrests were a result of people resisting the tents being taken down.
JagdPanzer38T
Because when people were resisting the tents being taken down, the police started arresting. 2/2
SkaggAteMyPappy
It wasn't a peaceful protest. The officers were on campus to remove tents after the students were asked by the school to do so 1/X
SkaggAteMyPappy
2/X The students refused to remove their illegally placed tents and were arrested, and the cops had to intervene once a group formed and -
SkaggAteMyPappy
5/X They were defending students that were not innocent. Regardless of how petty the crime, it was still a crime that they committed.
TheOneWhoKnoockz
You have the right to protest, but you can't break laws and violate other people's rights while doing so. Which these chumps were doing.
Mithi
Then you arrest those people, and not dousing them in harmful chemicals.
TheOneWhoKnoockz
Also, those "chemicals" have been ruled legal to use to make an arrest as a compliance tool.
Mithi
Oh, if they have been ruled OK everything is totally fine.
TheOneWhoKnoockz
You're 100% right. In order to get compliance, police should just give hugs and unicorns out. That'll work
TheOneWhoKnoockz
It's hard to arrest 20+ people linked in arms. If someone has fight in them, it will take multiple people to do so.
Mithi
Yes it is hard, taking 2-3 cops. Your point being?
MrSpanksworth
Circled, threatened, and trapped? What's stopping them just stepping over the students sitting in a circle..
Erilis
https://youtu.be/K8Uj1cV97XQ?t=6m20s 6 min, 30 seconds in
howdoiscience
That's what Pike did. Multiple times.
huanthewolfhound
Not wanting to run people over with police vehicles.
Berekhalf
Apparently they needed to move vehicles in and out of that path, which is arguably harder to have step over people. I still have no opinion.
nodend
They could have run the students over, that's the vehicle analogy to stepping over, right?
valen00
getting punched in the nuts? falling and breaking an arm? plenty of stuff
MrSpanksworth
You're not going to fall unless they interfere, if they interfere or nut punch that's when the police take action.
valen00
people fall over a bump in the sidewalk in america then sue the govt for it. If the cop fell over and landed on some kid can you imagine?
WishingICouldPutAnApostropheInMyUsername
Are you saying the consequences for a cop falling over would've been worse than the consequences for pepper spraying them in the face?
crowey92
exactly, unless they actually interfere with the officer they hadnt done anything other than talk, the second one lays a hand on him 1/2
crowey92
he can use as much force as he feels necessary, but until then they are just a crowd
thanatos777
Holy fucking shit, the ridiculous verbal gymnastics the cop apologists in this place are willing to go through never fail to impress.
chemistsdoitintesttubes
Cop apologists? Don't break the law, or obstruct justice, and no one will pepper spray your face. Seems like a good trade.
MillerLitesaber
Yeah, I've always had this opinion. Cops are assholes, there's not much to do about that. Just shut up now and talk later in court.
chemistsdoitintesttubes
I just don't understand this need to demonize police. Cops, in general, are brave, caring, upright motherfuckers. I'm glad they're out there
primorph
I have limited respect for someone who shows up in full swat gear for fear of being slapped in the johnson.
MillerLitesaber
And what if you get knocked down by the group and a student takes your gun?
primorph
I don't think "what if" scenarios really have a place here. What if all the students secretly had ak47's?
MillerLitesaber
It's all about maintaining security and making absolutely sure everyone is safe. When a gun is involved, you take all kinds of precautions
howdoiscience
The students never interfered with police stepping over them. You never see that in the video. And I never saw it from my vantage point.
krauraurgg
But would they have interfered if the police tried to bring the detained people out?
JhericFury
Quick question, if these students were non violent, why couldn't they just arrest or forcibly move them? Why pepper spray?
Mithi
Lazy bastards solution.
radicalbread
How do you forcibly remove someone without casuing bodily harm? Pepper Spray.
CultofCedar
There was a spider, he was trying to help
KingStannisTheMannisBaratheon
Because if one of the students refused to move then and started a fight the cops could get even more shit for doing their jobs.
Euclid271
The students surrounded the police and linked arms
IWasInThePool
several officers were able to leave the encircled crowd without the use of force including who led two prisoners through the encircled crowd
plyinglemon
I've heard that as far as the law is concerned, this counts as holding the officers hostage. Don't quote me on that though.
IWasInThePool
Ran out of characters. That was a quote from the Kroll report on this incident.
Danile666
Yeah pepper spray is at the bottom of the force ladder. Physically restraining and moving someone is more dangerous and can cause more dmg.
JhericFury
That just seems untrue, maybe if they're resisting, but these guys were non-violent.
Danile666
Well it is untrue, your voice is at the bottom...but they used that. These kids did not disperse when told to, so they used a less lethal
Danile666
Option. At the end of the day, physical contact can lead to broken bones, more aggression, and fighting. it is not like if the cop grabbed
Danile666
an arm the kid would have gotten up and said yes sir and walked away. So using pepper spray was by far the lower force option. anyone who
idonthaveagoodnameinmind
start with minimal force and escalate as the situation determines. Pepper Spray is more likely less damaging than the inevitable brawl.
sparksm7
Why not? It's non-lethal.
JhericFury
So are lots of things not allowed for the police force.
GetOffTheRoadQuick
@hybridcow Just curious what your thoughts are on this...I am personally curious on why pepper spray was a necessary tactic
mrlemonofbanana
For one, it's safer for the officers. Note that the officers are severely outnumbered, meaning that if things turned physical, they'd lose.
hanky2swanky
This is a Berkeley protest... They coulda showed up in pajamas and bubble wands and still been just as safe
JhericFury
And you think macing the students was a good way to prevent it from turning physical?
XaiaX
So what? They're employees of the students.
00Donut
They're not employees of the students. And even if they were, that doesn't mean their lives aren't worth protecting.
Pheats
I think it will be because by blocking the path thry are obstructing a police officer from effecting an arrest?
hanky2swanky
In the video, he literally steps over them to spray them..
Spice00002
Try marching some 5+ people over a line of people wanting to set them free. Would not go over well.
Pheats
Which is an offence
MadDucks
which is a big time offense.
Chewbacca032
What do you think the pepper spray is for? It causes much less permanent damage than any other form of force available.
JhericFury
It causes less permanent damage than grabbing people and moving them? Why don't they just mace everyone they arrest then?
millenniumf
Yes, it does. Moving a person who doesn't want to be moved can cause severe muscle and joint strain that takes weeks to heal.
Chewbacca032
Do you really expect the people to move easily when grabbed? They're going to resist and with the escalation there are bound to be injuries
JhericFury
I thought the MO was to become limp when they try to move you, surely that would also help to prevent injury?
Chewbacca032
That would be the common sense thing to do...but if you look at most protests that rarely, if ever, happens. People are devoted to the cause
finebyme
If the students start fighting, the police aren't going to win. You realize that right?
JhericFury
I realise that a group of non-violent protestors aren't likely to start fighting police officers.
finebyme
So what do you expect the police to do then? Simply sit there until the protesters get bored? They already asked the kids to move
Itsboomtiemrightnow
Capsaicins inflame the airways, causing swelling and restriction. Pepper sprays pose a genuine risk to people with respiratory conditions.
[deleted]
[deleted]
panzer1990
only causes cornea damage if fired from less than 6 inches. I think i can assume your not certified on the use of OC pepper spray.
Itsboomtiemrightnow
Pepper spray causes its burning sensation in the eyes in part by damaging cells in the outer layer of the cornea. You don't know enough.
Itsboomtiemrightnow
Also, you obviously don't know what you're talking about either. This is crowd control spray designed to be used at a distance.
XaiaX
Unless it causes permanent blindness or respiratory problems that kill someone.
SushiJaguar
Hey, that's their fault. They were asked if they understood, by remaining still they provided non-verbal consent.
YouLast
What would their reaction have been if they didn't understand? E.g. if they didn't speak the language?
SushiJaguar
I would assume sight is a universal thing among regular, protesting students. That and a basic understanding of arm gestures.
XaiaX
If someone says they're going to shoot you if you don't give them your wallet, that's not consent. Even if they're a cop.
SushiJaguar
Fantastic. That's a fantastic reply. That's exactly the situation we're discussing here. You deserve many, many upvotes for the contribution
IWasInThePool
If the goal is to get the students to move, how does incapacitating them help achieve that?
Spice00002
Makes it easier to carry them out of the way for one.
IWasInThePool
Not sure how people writing around in pain are easier to carry than those sitting quietly.
Beepity
Except for the "remove [them] physically without the use of weapons" option for a not-physically-resisting group.
Beepity
KTHRSS
It's not necessarily too easy to start moving a wall of students when they don't co-operate.
Beepity
They already were.
KTHRSS
Definition of co-operation is sitting on the way not moving when you are asked to?
Verelse
The problems? 1) Students on a campus 2) Campus police were not authorized to make arrests or use pepper spray if peaceful 3) was peaceful.
kurastwolf
Right to Protest covers the government, not third parties. Most universities are actually private entities and any protest can be illegal.
Verelse
SCOTUS ruled long ago that private entities organized by the Govt are PUBLIC entities in Law (park service, USPS, etc.).
Verelse
Agreed, however UC Davis is a public, i.e. government, University.
playthatrecordbackwards
Your protest isn't going to be effective if your response to "You're peaceably breaking some rules" is "Ok, sorry, we're leaving now."
Bent0916
Barricading is arguably not peaceful. If you're locked in a room or cell, that's imprisonment. A use of force to detain you.
lordvetinariofankhmorpork
exactly
Verelse
Right, but there was room to walk around, and plenty. The fault was with the school leadership for not being clear about the mission.
ElGrandeBanana
Barricading is a non-violent form of protest. It is not actively violent. It is also used to provoke police violence, so that worked.
HypotheticalHypothetical
if one of the intents is to "provoke police violence" as you put it, its not non-violent, its inciting violence
ElGrandeBanana
It is non-violent. It is also in the well developed bag of protest and "working with the police" tactics. It is non-violent, but ofcourse 1/
CwmMakesPeopleCryInScrabble
Think sitting outside the White House - illegal and gets you arrested, but typically non violently.
CwmMakesPeopleCryInScrabble
It's actually called civil disobedience. Willful non compliance, but not actually intended to incite violence.
ElGrandeBanana
there are other goals as well. Protesting is a game with tactics on both sides. Tactics used to prove the other is wrong. Provocing 2/
ElGrandeBanana
police violence is one of those for protesters, to tilt public opinion. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but it is non-violent.
dipity90
1) The students were told to remove tents but did not. 2) Consequences are necessary for rule breaking 3) I see the circling as threatening.
ParsleySage
"I see the circling as threatening." Well, you're not right.
BeatsBearsBattlestarGallactica
How is it threatening? They're all sitting. Also, the pepper spray used was the same grade as the kind used to stop mother fucking bears.
Bent0916
So if dozens of people inspired by violent protests surrounded you and chanted at you you would not feel threatened at all?
Bent0916
I've gotta lol @ the downvoters. Obviously people that've never been the target of an angry mob's attention before. It's nerve-racking.
whyteraven74
What violent protests?
Bent0916
UC Davis was part of the OWS protests. Oakland's violent protests, in the same state, occurred just a month ahead of UC Davis.
FunJokeGoesHere
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am going to need some proof with that statement.
BeatsBearsBattlestarGallactica
Of the rank? Hold on this is going to take me a sec to find the report. But the band on the can is orange/red ranking it 1.3 or .7
BeatsBearsBattlestarGallactica
I got you " pepper spray can be used, but specifically refers to the MK-4 (a smaller canister)" Link to follow.
BeatsBearsBattlestarGallactica
http://reynosoreport.ucdavis.edu/reynoso-report.pdf Page 22 of the pdf (19 of the report) Section D.
dipity90
"If you let them go, we will let you leave". That seems like a threat to me. They will not allow the police to leave.
[deleted]
[deleted]
animjason
Which they must dutifully protect, they'd be even more screwed.
RedyRood
How can be the police be trapped if they are surrounding the students who are being peppersprayed, as can be seen in the picture ?
minipancho94
the officers could have stepped over the students, if the students then prevented them physically from leaving, then they use force.
playthatrecordbackwards
Standing up and moving out of the way so that they can pass through is not the same thing as physically attack an officer. I take it to mean
playthatrecordbackwards
that they will get out of the way when they say "We will let you leave," not that they will use violence to force the officers to stay.
myvulvaissmootherthanavealcutlet
In the same way that chaining yourself to a tree to stop a bulldozer is threatening the bulldozer, sure.
dipity90
Last I checked, a bulldozer isn't a person and thus not capable of feeling threatened.
BeatsBearsBattlestarGallactica
Even if they're being threatening using 0.7 percent MC pepper spray on humans by campus police is idiotic and incorrect.
lordvetinariofankhmorpork
would you prefer they used bullets or batons? the police is the only agency legally allowed to detain individuals.
dipity90
As I said to someone else, I'm not trying to tell anyone what to think. I'm only trying to give more information.
thanatos777
They are LITERALLY holding hands and chanting. WHAT THE FUCK is threatening about that? It's the fucking DEFINITION of hippie bullshit.
KitsunesFire
So pepper spraying kids to the face is the appropriate response?
myvulvaissmootherthanavealcutlet
Consequences as determined by a court of law, not a cop with a can of pepper spray.
kruton93
Seriously? "Consequences are necessary for rule breaking"? That's a horrible excuse/support for this..
dipity90
I support consequences. That doesn't necessary mean these one exactly as executed.
WhatAboutReefer
Your dad a cop or something?
iwouldliveinsaltforyou
It concerns me that you see pepper spray as a consequence for "rule breaking" 1/2
iwouldliveinsaltforyou
the police are authorized to use force to protect lives not to punish evil doers. 2/2
jonnnney
Gotta love America. Either do what the police tell you or they will torture you with chemicals.
lordvetinariofankhmorpork
as opposed to for example... lets say CANADA? as a canadian i have seen what the RCMP does to break up protests.
PSIhateyou
Those are called "laws" and torture is a bit of an exaggeration.
DangQuesadilla
Exaggeration? Have you ever been pepper sprayed? If not, I hope you get to experience it, then you can have an opinion
PSIhateyou
"Then you can have an opinion." Sounds tyrannical to me. And would you like me to link you to the torture posts on Imgur? Flaying, maybe?
whyteraven74
Here's the thing, when people are being peaceful and letting people go about their business, leave them alone.
FoxyEllie
They weren't letting the police go about their business. They were effectively barricading the police in there.
whyteraven74
Only after the police tried to get them to leave their original location. The school higher ups rather screwed the pooch.
playthatrecordbackwards
Oftentimes protests are meant to break rules. Civil disobedience is a perfectly legitmate and effective form of protest. The point is to 1/2
playthatrecordbackwards
make the other side uncomfortable to force change or concessions. As long as it's peaceful and not disrupting passerby 3rd parties this type
playthatrecordbackwards
of protest needn't be met with violence. I understand the police were doing their job. The students were doing their as protesters and in
playthatrecordbackwards
a peaceable way. Pepper spray was unnecessary.
CitizenDickbag
You see it as threatening because you adore authoritarianism. That's the only way one can consider physical assault a justified response.
dipity90
Not true, at all. My point is that there is more to the story. The cop did not walk up and start pepper spraying them.
CitizenDickbag
You JUST said that you approved of the consequences dealt out for their "threatening" actions, which is endorsing authoritarianism.
dipity90
No. I said I approve of consequences. That does not mean these ones exactly as executed.
myvulvaissmootherthanavealcutlet
Careful! Many imgurians "hate both parties" and like to pretend they're libertarian when actually they worship authority.
hjf2011
Lookt TheFirewall's comments. Holy. Fucking. Nazi.
dbids
They didnt do anything physically threatening to the police, it was a peaceful protest! Would you say the same about ghandis protests 1/2
TheFeralDog
They did a lot illegal and threatening. You try being encircled and trapped by a bunch of college kids and see how you feel
tsgreen
yeah man, i'm surrounded by college kids. they're sitting on the ground all around me chanting peacefully. holy shit I think I pissed myself
dbids
Against bristish rule or MLK's speeches and marches for equal treatment? These were peaceful protests and youre just a contrarian
lordvetinariofankhmorpork
they are prefenting the police from moving.. and they made it i quite clear. surrounding them like that IS threatening
tsgreen
yes, people sitting on the ground chanting is threatening as hell. I went to a yoga class once, and now i'm scarred for life.
giantfishinabearsuit
Around the 7:20 mark. "Let them go and we will continue to protest peacefully" Thats a threat. any day.
Twenty3Skidoo
Gandhi was arrested, and beimg arrested was part of his plan. MLK's speeches / marches were all legally executed, something these kids 1
Twenty3Skidoo
couldn't manage to pull off. 2/2
lucidcute
A judge actually ruled that the cop was in the wrong.
cfields929
A judge also ruled casey Anthony innocent
ellcrys
No, she was found "not guilty" by a judge. There's a big difference.
BrucefromAustralia
Actually a jury of her peers acquitted her. Big difference.
funniername
No "actually" a Judge did not but thanks for the contribution.
TheOneWhoKnoockz
If you are failing to obey a lawful order, you can get OC'd for compliance.
TheOneWhoKnoockz
A liberal judge who wanted to stay in office ruled that the police officer was in the wrong.
TheNamesWolf
Police never truly get punished in America, probably just a tiny tap on the wrist.
CwmMakesPeopleCryInScrabble
Or he got $38k for the psychological damage HE suffered. (No, really. Look it up)
username20
"Pike subsequently received 17,000 angry or threatening emails, 10,000 text messages, and hundreds of letters, causing him to suffer 1/2
username20
from depression and anxiety and winning him a workers compensation claim settlement of $38,056" Relatively little for the BS he went through
sowetoninja
he was fired, which is wrong, it's rare to see cops so calm & collected in such situations.
CwmMakesPeopleCryInScrabble
He was fired like a year later, but that also has nothing to do with the workers comp.
kruton93
I don't think the cop should be punished severely, but I still believe the students were the victims and pepper spray was uncalled for.
HackerJacker
And your better solution would be?
DasOgre
Protesting on private property is against the law.
CwmMakesPeopleCryInScrabble
That fully depends on the campus rules, and the property's status as a public college complicates the matter.
kruton93
Isn't it a public school?
Bitterkandy
A judge also ruled that OJ was innocent.
thanatos388
There was a policeman once just did his job and was never in any controversy in any way. Is that relevant? Not at all man.
BrucefromAustralia
Burden of proof being on the accuser is a bitch innit?
ellcrys
False. A jury found him "not guilty". There's a big difference.
ZnozWoodlands
I feel like the judge was in the wrong
dustinforpresident
Pepper spray is painful, but physically pretty harmless. Physically removing the students has a greater chance of causing physical injury.
edissick
then it's settled
Thisisahugemistake
Move! Why? Uhhhhh 'cause we want to drive a patrol car down this sidewalk. Huh?
Thetacoqueen
No, a commission was formed to investigate what occurred. They found that the police did use improper tactics by using the OC spray too 1/2
DavidBrooker
Somehow I'd like to see "downvoted into oblivion" replaced with "OC spray".
Thetacoqueen
OC spray be gone, now available in 3 designer colors
KongMD
shy too shy, hush-hush eye to eye
felikittyPGH
Holy hell, not every day a Kajagoogoo reference shows up on Imgur.
Thetacoqueen
Close, they were not sanctioned or any rulings against them. The police are taught to respond to a crowd closing in on them and moving 2/?
OddOod
Boom! Facts. God I love them
Thetacoqueen
Them, it doesn't mean they were wrong just that they used the spray too close. The use of force was necessary the usage of equipment not.3/3
MetaphoricalFox
This is the kind of comment I want to read. Bring elements to help me form a proper opinion. +1 to everything.
Thetacoqueen
Thank ya! Everyone should be informed instead of joining in blindly on the cop bashing or cop hate.
sowetoninja
So can fucking ANYBODY here give some actual suggestions to what the cops are supposed to do? I swear you guys have no idea how incredibly>
NewtonWren
Dude, they don't let people like you on these commissions, and they'll most likely have the literal book on what to do. Or have wrote it
Thetacoqueen
The suggestion, that many depts are currently doing, is receiving training on how to respond to peaceful protests. This was rather knew 1/?
sowetoninja
>patient&calm these cops are in this situation. Informing students before hand, multiple times even. This is not common in other countries..
chiefgeronimo
i just read he was never issued a judgement or punished for anything
ArandomDane
First excessive use of force, then cleared, then fired, now 38k workers compensation.
BrucefromAustralia
He was never punished for excessive use of force. The 38K proves a judge ruled his firing to have been wrong.
username20
There was no excessive use of force that is why it didn't stick. He broke protocol by having the OC spray to close. Studied in my Law class
ArandomDane
A judge ruled that it was not excessive force used. Hence cleared. Under guise of arresting squatters the new ruling allowed his (1/2)
ArandomDane
escalation to use pepper spray on the people that took the place of those they had already been arrested. I cannot see how that is not (2/)
Darkwolf2577
What was the reasoning? I'm curious.
MillerLitesaber
Because there was all this bad publicity and the judge didn't want to be under more scrutiny by letting him off easy
LiamNeesonOfficial
It was an election season.
Pojiy
Instead of spraying underprivileged black kids they sprayed privileged white kids. Check yo privileges.
Pugsleyx
Going by some of the other replies here he was found to be standing too close while using the spray, their actions were fine otherwise.
Darkwolf2577
Oh that's something I hadn't heard yet, interesting, thanks!
DrYoloMcSwagmasterIIIEsq
It caused a media shitshow and punishing him for doing his job is better for judges than the judge losing reelection
kmikl
IIRC the judge was appointed: not elected.
ArandomDane
Excessive use of force. They could have picked the students up one at a time, (If other students tried to stop them, pepperstray)
HackerJacker
They already did that, others sat in place, they were trying to take the first lot to a van. Not enough cops to pick up them all at once
ArandomDane
That someone else have committed the same crime do not make others crime worse. The police was there to arrest squatters, (1/2)
ArandomDane
Not dispense a crowd or protest. Protest are stile allowed in the US, well almost always now.
Darkwolf2577
Fair enough. Though repeated warnings were given, and though I'm not sure that is entirely feasible, it would have been preferable.
ArandomDane
Warning, about none non-lethal weapons, do not grant their use, but it should be noted that he was cleared on appeal.
Darkwolf2577
Oh yea, I know, and again, I'm not saying it was the right course of action, just an understandable one. Interesting that he was cleared.
thanatos777
It could have something to do with subjecting peaceful protesters to what any thinking human being would call "torture."
SpeakingAsTheDevilsAdvocate
HOLY SHIT there are a lot of people defending this action. Looks like we're fucked after all. neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerp
Lemesplain
Having been both sprayed and gassed (CS).. it isn't torture. Not even close. Yeah it sucks, but calling this torture undermines true torture
Darkwolf2577
I wouldn't call that torture. They all have their faces covered, and while it still won't feel good, torture is much, much worse. Also, 1/3
ImgurSage
It's hard for me to sympathize with the protesters after reading this post. Multiple broken laws and warnings, trapping police.
thanatos777
THEY ARE SITTING DOWN AND CHANTING! What the fuck is it with you people and not being able to get cop dick down your throat fast enough?
Darkwolf2577
don't get me wrong, I'm not sure they deserve it, but reacting emotionally without looking at both sides is pointless, hence why I 2/3
Darkwolf2577
wanted to know the reasoning the judge had. Would give better context. 3/3
thanatos777
Oh, I looked at both sides; this is hardly unbiased, though. This is apologist fucking bullshit.
Darkwolf2577
So...? What's the story? Care to fill me in? Without being biased and emotional, as most people tend to.
dunecat1337
Pepper spraying students who aren't hurting anyone. Being annoying and disobedient isn't grounds for that.
Idownvoteyoursobstories
WRONG
moonsaves
Actually it was using the pepper spray at too close a distance.
DasOgre
Peaceful protest isn't constitutionally protected on private property
dunecat1337
So arrest them.
neuromonic
A public university isn't private property.
CwmMakesPeopleCryInScrabble
UC campuses don't usually count as private property.
DasOgre
They still have rules like private property, which the protesters were breaking.
MorganMcJiggleson
It was a UC campus, not private property.
DasOgre
They still have rules like private property, which the protesters were breaking.
rivetlust
Trespassing. Obstructing. Failure to comply.
kmikl
1: They were students. 2: Obstruction implies there was no way to get around the protest, there was. 3: FTC is only valid in context that /1
kmikl
3/ police backup.
kmikl
2/ the police officers were issuing orders to vacate at the behest of the property owner, which they were not, campus security requested
wintercoat
Still not grounds for pepper spray.
AJohns91
Failure to comply. That's why tasers and pepper spray are used.... To gain compliance.
Darkwolf2577
Agreed, but obstruction of justice is still a criminal offence. They were preventing the cops from completing the arrests. Still iffy tho.
kmikl
They were exercising their rights, and were non-violent.
Darkwolf2577
They were still obstructing justice. And there was an implied threat "if you let them go, we let you leave" could definitely be threatening,
dunecat1337
Which is an arrestable offense. So arrest them. Force is the last resort, or the laziest.
Darkwolf2577
They had already arrested people, arresting more might not have been possible until they got those ones out of there.
understandable
Yes! Obstruction of justice. They're doing their job, how can some people be so stupid!
kmikl
Obstr. of Justice is a catch-all: it's not usually followed up by a charge in the case of protests.
Wuz314159
No. If people are breaking the law, you arrest them. Not assault or shoot them
Darkwolf2577
They had already made arrests, they might not have been able to make any more with the manpower they had.
PoptartPounder
they were breaking a law and were clearly warned multiple times.
dunecat1337
So on your third speeding offense you just get pepper sprayed now. I mean, you were warned!
4non
Pepper spray is ment for disarming potential dangerous enemies, not for clearing protesters that are sitting on the floor.
Faylom
Yeah but police can't use whatever means they want to get their own way.
spacerocks
"Whatever means" isn't what they used though. Pepper spray was designed to be a deterrent, not a weapon. That's what it is.
sowetoninja
no, students can't use whatever means they want to get their way. Why are people so adamant to defend these stupid kids? Own you BS behavior
smashfaceawesome
The least used means is time. Police can always let folks decide to leave on their own.